Electoral College Certifies Biden's Victory, As Trump Still Refuses To Concede (apnews.com) 550
The Electoral College gave Joe Biden a majority of its votes Monday, confirming his victory in last month's election in state-by-state voting that took on added importance this year because of President Donald Trump's refusal to concede he lost. The Associated Press reports: California's 55 electoral votes put Biden over the top, clearing the 270-vote mark that affirmed he will be the nation's next president. Heightened security was in place in some states as electors met on the day by federal law. Electors cast paper ballots in gatherings that took place in all 50 states and the District of Columbia, with masks, social distancing and other virus precautions the order of the day. The results will be sent to Washington and tallied in a Jan. 6 joint session of Congress over which Vice President Mike Pence will preside.
There was little suspense and no surprises as all the electoral votes allocated to Biden and Trump in last month's popular vote went to each man. In Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- the six battleground states that Biden won and Trump contested -- electors gave Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris their votes Monday in low-key proceedings. Nevada's electors met via Zoom because of the coronavirus pandemic. When all the votes are in, Biden was expected to have 306 electoral votes to 232 for Trump. Hawaii was the only state that had yet to vote. Biden topped Trump by more than 7 million votes nationwide. Biden is expected to address the nation Monday night, after the electors have voted. Trump, meanwhile, is refusing to concede.
There was little suspense and no surprises as all the electoral votes allocated to Biden and Trump in last month's popular vote went to each man. In Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- the six battleground states that Biden won and Trump contested -- electors gave Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris their votes Monday in low-key proceedings. Nevada's electors met via Zoom because of the coronavirus pandemic. When all the votes are in, Biden was expected to have 306 electoral votes to 232 for Trump. Hawaii was the only state that had yet to vote. Biden topped Trump by more than 7 million votes nationwide. Biden is expected to address the nation Monday night, after the electors have voted. Trump, meanwhile, is refusing to concede.
Prediction (Score:3, Insightful)
More lies and whining from the usual retard right suspects. You lost, get over it. Sound familiar?
Re: (Score:3)
That's not usual in the USA... most concessions in the TV era have come on the night of the election. The only exception was 2000 when it was too close to award Florida to either side, and the other states didn't add up to enough to win.
We debated election tech back in the early 2000s here on Slashdot... maybe it's time to update that?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Personally I wonder if the Republican Party didn't bribe the voting companies to throw the election because they don't want to clean up this clusterfuck. It's going to be ugly the next couple of years and they'll get to blame Biden for everything, while he approves every corporation-friendly atrocity they can cram through Congress.
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Informative)
corporation-friendly atrocity has already been submitted by the GOP and approved by the GOP.
Did you miss the new tax laws they passed?
Fixing the presidency? Or the voters? (Score:3, Insightful)
I like to start at the beginning of a discussion, but on slashdot these days it almost always begins with a bit of AC drivel. I ignore it, but some people propagate the subject, which is beginning to look like the objective. It often controls the tone. In the worst cases, it poisons the discussions. Should be fixed, but /. 2020 doesn't do fixes.
In other news related to the original story, I just saw where Trump has fired his insufficiently crooked lawyer. No, not that crooked lawyer, but you had to wonder w
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? None of the fraud allegations relied on bad tech. In fact, in general they relied on no reasons at all, unless "my guy lost so there was fraud" counts as a reason. Tech can not save us from true faith, faith in hatred and imaginary discrimination.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah... no. I think you forgot 2016 where Hillary was no where to be seen as things swung in Trumps favor and did not come before the cameras until late the next day.
Perhaps Trump is just taking her advice to Biden not to concede? https://www.nbcnews.com/politi... [nbcnews.com]
I think you forgot what the word "most" means. And even so, oooh, one extra day. Big fucking deal. How about taking a look at this:
https://www.statista.com/stati... [statista.com]
Only 2 outliers in that. One came down to a single nearly tied state (which was so close, it turns out they actually got it wrong). The other (which surpasses even that by an ever-growing number of days) comes down to the loser having to flip a minimum of 3 states in recounts, at least one of which would have to be a state (they lost by over 1%, which would be a few orders of magnitude greater than the biggest recount flip ever) He has no hope of that, so he's resorting to lawsuit, and losing almost every one of them (he's only won a couple, which affected a minuscule number of ballots, with negligible effect on the results)
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/a... [google.com]
AP called the 2016 election for Donald Trump at 2:30 a.m. Wednesday, and Clinton called Trump to congratulate him about 10 minutes later. (Concession made. Democracy served.)
Conceding and appearing on camera are 2 different things. So your statement was wrong (or, at best, had nothing to do with the topic of discussion). Most people would consider 2:40 am to still be part of election night.
Re:China still owns BIZX (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know why you people even bother posting this. All the critical thinkers left slashdot years ago. All that's left is this bizarre echo chamber of CNN-drooling zombies. /thread
Here I am, the stereotypical /. poster, responding to the ac at the ridiculous hour of 1:50 GMT, convincingly asserting that critical thinkers have not left the slashdot any more than they've left the country. They're simply being drowned out by the radical political elements... who are incidentally always louder and more motivated than the satisfied minoroty.
Re:Don't worry, Biden will fix everything! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, because we aren't about to see a shitload of nepotistic and sycophantic pardoning in the next 4 weeks, are we?
Quit projecting what your favored candidate is about to do onto the other guy.
Re:Don't worry, Biden will fix everything! (Score:5, Insightful)
Hunter Biden hasn't seen his day in court, and it's not even clear he ever will. Allegations have been made, by and large as a means to enable the "stop the steal" conspiracy theory.
Frankly, the pardons that will start showing up over this final month of the Trump Presidency won't be far anyone named "Biden".
Re:Don't worry, Biden will fix everything! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You just described lobbying.
Eventually people find ways to exploit every system. The American political / electoral system is not immune to this phenomenon, it is just much more public and much more emotion-evoking.
When well known systems become exploited you change them. Change. It is what Americans are supposed to be the best at, but which they clearly now oppose (they can't even be convinced to wear protective gear during a deadly pandemic).
So now we see if anything changes. My bet is on no, but hey
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
He may have gotten more votes than any other sitting president, but it wasn't enough because the other guy got 7 million more than that.
The courts have rules about if a case is properly submitted or not, and the Trump campaign racked up over 50 losses at every level of the justice system.
A few losses is bad luck. 50+ is frivolous and a complete waste of everyone's time. Shut the fuck up and show evidence, or just shut the fuck up.
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, on the plus side, between Sacha Baron Cohen filming Giuliani masturbating in front of a woman he thought was an underage girl, and his flatulence in the court room, I'd say his reputation has been thoroughly destroyed. I do expect he's probably gone to receive one of those pardons for being a loyal soldier. Then he'll write a book about it. In fact, you're going to be so tired of reading books by White House insiders about Donald Trump.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't give a damn about the Borat film, or his flatulence (it happens to everyone, no idea why that's such a big deal).
What annoys me is his lies, and his utter incompetence. Why he wasn't disbarred after his performance in PA, where he had no clue what the judge was talking about, I don't know.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, on the plus side, between Sacha Baron Cohen filming Giuliani masturbating in front of a woman he thought was an underage girl, and his flatulence in the court room, I'd say his reputation has been thoroughly destroyed. I do expect he's probably gone to receive one of those pardons for being a loyal soldier.
Perhaps the most crucial thing the Biden DoJ can do over the next four years is to challenge that pardon, and Roger Stone's commutation.
If you're thinking that pardons can't be challenged, that's generally absolutely true, but there's a strong argument that there is one exception to the president's power to pardon any federal crime: impeachment.
Article 2, Section 2, clause 1 of the US Constitution says that the president:
We have historically interpreted the impeachment clause to mean that the president can't pardon people who have been impeached. But there's a good argument that this view is wrong, or at least incomplete. The argument is based on Madison's notes of the debate over the pardon power in the constitutional convention, and another reasonable interpretation, given the context provided by Madison, is that the pardon power also does not apply in cases where the president is impeached, and this is specifically in order to prevent him from being able to pardon his co-conspirators.
If you think about it, this is a powerful -- and pretty obvious! -- protection against what is perhaps the most dangerous aspect of the pardon power. If a president keeps his own hands clean and gets others to commit crimes for him, but promises them pardons should they be caught, then as long as his toadies refuse to rat him out he can commit absolutely any crime without fear of consequence.
If, on the other hand, a president's power to pardon for an act evaporates if he himself is impeached for that act, then this prevents the president from being able to credibly promise pardons. Because if the conspiracy is revealed the president might be impeached, thereby removing his ability to pardon, at least for crimes related to the impeachment. This would provide a strong deterrent to any potential co-conspirator who fears being caught and punished under the law.
IMO, there is no single thing the Biden administration could do that would better protect the country against a future corrupt president than to challenge and overturn Trump's commutation of Roger Stone's sentence, and Giuliani's pardon, if given. Not so much because Stone or Giuliani are all that important, but because establishing the precedent that presidents can't pardon their partners in crime is that important.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Funny)
It is almost like a constantly increasing population will continue to produce larger and larger turnout and audiences.
Tell that to The CW and their Batwoman show...
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
That's the thing, you can appoint all the judges you want, but you can't force them to rule for you and against law and country. Trump seems to think the ony valid Republicans are the ones who kiss his ass daily or who scream in adoration at his rallies. But surprise, the would-be dictator finds his support base is not as all inclusive as he hoped.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
" the only dissents being from two judges"
They weren't even dissents. It was a statement, not a dissent. Dissents are always marked as Dissents.
And it was only a statement that they felt Texas should have the right to FILE the case in this particular situation instead of having their motion to file itself denied.
In effect, Texas had to ask permission to put their file through the mail slot, and 7 justices said no we're not touching it, you can't even file it just put it straight in the bin, and 2 justices said, "well in this particular type of case, we think Texas is constitutionally allowed to put the file through the mailslot; but THEN we would have put in straight in the bin."
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think Trump lost any of his supporters in Georgia; the Democrats are making inroads in more highly educated suburbs, especially ones with more non-white college grads. Biden won college grads by +12%, but Trump won *white* college grads by +11%. Biden won non-white college grads by a stunning +67%.
If Republicans could get their act together on race, the Democrats would be crippled. White Democrats tend to be very liberal, but black Democrats are much further to the right. That's why liberal fireb
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
The point of these AC trolls is to make Americans feel as though the American system of democracy has failed. Whatever country they come from, they are enemies of all Americans, and want to see the country tear itself to pieces. The system works, even when put under a great deal of stress. Even when some are fighting to destroy it, democracy still works. Freedom is better than the alternative, and we should honestly celebrate the fact that we still have some of it here. Unlike those degens in Russia and China, who hate us and want to see us destroyed so they can become the next superpower.
We can get through this, we have faced worse divisions in the past and come through them with our democracy intact. They can't tear us apart unless we let them.
Re: (Score:3)
Sad, but true.
"United we stand, Divided we fall."
The goal is to divide us, and ensure our fall.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
The courts have rules about if a case is properly submitted or not, and the Trump campaign racked up over 50 losses at every level of the justice system.
A few losses is bad luck. 50+ is frivolous and a complete waste of everyone's time.
That, or the courts are just as rigged as the vote was. And for the record, there is plenty of evidence.
You mean the rigged courts crammed with Republican appointed judges?
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
The Trumpeteers are in denial. And they're amazing hypocrites. The values of the Republican party are being trashed. Republicans used to tout the rule of law, state's rights, patriotism, and so forth. But now his supporters try to avoid the law, try to get the feds to overturn states' voting results, and are engaged in sedition. They spent 8 years during Clinton years saying that Bill should never have been president since he lacks moral character, then they turn around and adore Trump who has even worse character, is clearly not a Christian or understanding of any Christian values, and treats the Ten Commandments as a bucket list. Even some of the biggest Trump supporters are disagreeing here, Bill Barr says he found no evidence of systemic voting fraud and he had his lips locked to Trump's ass tighter than anyone.
These are not RINOs who disagree with Trump, instead it is Trump who has jettisoned core conservative and Republican values during his time in office and especially this current attempt to hold onto office. The *real* RINOs are those who follow Trump, urge legislators to overrule the will of the people, and suggest having a "union of law abiding states".
But in the Trump fantasy world, "real Americans" means those who follow Trump, and those who "love America" are rejecting democracy and the constitution.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
The Trumpeteers are in denial. And they're amazing hypocrites. The values of the Republican party are being trashed. Republicans used to tout the rule of law, state's rights, patriotism, and so forth. But now his supporters try to avoid the law, try to get the feds to overturn states' voting results, and are engaged in sedition. They spent 8 years during Clinton years saying that Bill should never have been president since he lacks moral character, then they turn around and adore Trump who has even worse character, is clearly not a Christian or understanding of any Christian values, and treats the Ten Commandments as a bucket list.
It seems you didn't learn the most important and obvious lesson of the last 4 years, which is that every publicly-acceptable principle that the Republican party claimed to have was just a momentarily convenient lie, to be used as a partisan cudgel when convenient and hastily discarded without a second thought when inconvenient. Even a large fraction of Republicans didn't know this, living their whole lives immersed in the kool-aid, thinking that they were just rugged individualist personal responsibility enthusiasts with Christian morals and values and no real hostility to democracy, but we should all know the truth now. The goal of the party and conservatism in general is, to sum it up in a single goal, to empower aristocracy [ucla.edu]. You can break that down into other facets like destroying democracy and worsening inequality, and you can break those down into smaller goals again, but empowering aristocracy is the name of their game.
The behavior you describe isn't a bug, it's a feature of the payload the obfuscated executable you were looking at delivers, serving its core function.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
Affadavits are a dime a dozen, and few of them actually made it to the courts. Those that did were deemed unreliable. One court in particular grilled the lawyer about how he had already removed the majority of the affadavits as not being reliable and yet still tried to present the remaining affadavits as being solid. Giuliani's star witness in a Georgia "hearing" was shown to be a complete nutcase. Most of your allegations have been disproven many times over. The only people still believing in pervasive fraud large enough to have changed the outcome are living in an alternate fantasy world.
And yes, Trump did get more votes and any other sitting president but Biden still got more votes than that.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Affadavits are a dime a dozen, and few of them actually made it to the courts. Those that did were deemed unreliable. One court in particular grilled the lawyer about how he had already removed the majority of the affadavits as not being reliable and yet still tried to present the remaining affadavits as being solid. Giuliani's star witness in a Georgia "hearing" was shown to be a complete nutcase.
Don't forget the apparently drunk lady who looked like she just woke up and needed a shower, and ended up accusing the Republicans on the hearing committee of being involved in the fraud. Even old Nosferatu couldn't shut her up even though he tried. It's evidence free, mental masturbation that the cult don't need no steenkin facts to believe
It can all be summed up in the MAGA thought process regarding vaccines:
"We must punish Evil China for sending us this horrible virus that is merely the common cold, and we don't need masks but Trump was a hero for wearing one that one time, and God bless him for inventing the miraculous vaccine that we're not going to take!"
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Interesting)
LOL! Yes, 81million voters colluded to vote against Trump. The 74million weren't enough to offset that. You would think Trump could hire better lawyers; because they kept showing up to courtrooms w/o evidence nor affidavits under oath.
You would think, in court, Giuliani himself wouldn't say [courtlistener.com] this “doesn’t plead fraud. . . . [T]his is not a fraud case.”.
I guess Trump's lawyers were in the 81 million too... I mean what ELSE can it be, right?
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump got more votes than any other sitting president in US history.
As the overall population increases, you'd expect this record to be broken pretty regularly.
There are numerous affidavits on file from voters that witnessed voter fraud or skullduggery from the election workers.
If there was any actual evidence of this, the Republicans would have used this in their lawsuits. Instead, when directly asked by the judges if there was any evidence, they replied "no, there is no evidence".
Many people abused the mail-in ballot system to vote multiple times, or for people that are no longer alive.
Already debunked. Tucker Carlson made this claim then publicly apologised for being wrong.
All this is well documented and incontrovertible.
Blatant lie.
And yet the courts, including our Supreme Court, refuse to even listen to the evidence.
Giuliani didn't even present any evidence in court.
The country is effectively about to be taken over by illegal minority rule.
Trump took office despite losing the majority vote.
I don't reckon this is going to end well for the ones that are attempting this steal.
This I agree with. It isn't going well for Trump.
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
But the Supreme Court was not the only court! SCOTUS relies upon the lower courts in most instances. They do NOT need to hear the evidence to decide whether to accept a case or not, because the case essentiallly was a bid to ask for permission to sue another state to overturn their elections. There was no weaseling here, as there is no precedent for such an action and no allowance for this in the constitution. It was doomed to fail from the start, and those who sent the suit and who signed onto it knew this full well.
As for the evidence, it was not presented to the lower courts in the suits there even when it could have been presented. It failed over 50 times in the lower courts, so complaining at the end that the SCOTUS didn't look at evidence is just a massive amount of stupidity. He's got the dumbest and most inept lawyers the entire nation, Giuliani and the bats-in-the-belfry Sidney Powell.
This whole charade is being done for one thing only, to gather donated money for Trump's legal defense and future campaign. Most likely it is how he's going to pay for his next four years of continual Trump Rallies.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Just to make the facts clear, disputes between states (which the texas case was) go directly to the supreme court without going through the lower courts..
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Prediction (Score:5, Informative)
If you're referring to that "one-in-a-quadrillion" nonsense, it's been thoroughly debunked, as reported in Fact check: Statistical analysis supporting pro-Trump Supreme Court case is 'ludicrous' [usatoday.com] and many, many other places.
TL;DR: Conservatives can't (or don't want to) do math, story of the 2020 election -- film at 11.
The rest of your post is unsubstantiated crap -- as noted in the 50+ lawsuits the Trump campaign lost, many (most?) with conservative judges.
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
Funny how none of that can be proven in court, even with Republican judges. Does that mean the Republican party is in on it? Gosh, that would mean that everyone is against you. You literally have only Trump, his mouth breathing offspring, and your fellow fat tacticool terrorists cosplaying as militias. Sorry, snowflake, that doesn't amount to a fart in a hurricane. Any way you slice it, you lost. Suck it up.
Re: (Score:3)
Cool story bro.
Re:So predict this: (Score:5, Insightful)
My own personal politics are pretty centrist-leaning-left, but I'm getting older and I can feel myself getting more conservative by the year. I have no use for Sanders or AOC. According to my demographics I should be voting republican. However, I simply cannot reward the party of Lincoln for wholesale abandoning their integrity in order to pursue raw power. For me, I've decided that the GOP is getting a 1-decade timeout. The shitshow they've put on for the past 4 years has cost them a decade of my vote. I'll re-assess them in 2030.
No Democrat should be gloating. Biden winning by the skin of his teeth means the country hasn't quite lost it's ability to judge between a centrist and a pile of steaming would-be autocrat. But damn it was close.
Bank balance over nation. (Score:5, Insightful)
So, almost all the donations given to "fight" the lawsuits are going straight into paying down Trump's campaign debts and future campaigning. The restrictions on the use of the money are almost non-existent. I think we know what Trump really wants he's playing the "MAGA" suckers to the very end. If he damages America whilst doing it? Well maybe there'll be another opportunity to profit or to get Iwanka or one of his other little mini-mes a public office.
Re:Bank balance over nation. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, why not? Guys like Bannon and Alex Jones have made a career out of milking the True Believers for all they're worth. That is the American way; find a group of disgruntled and dissatisfied people, perform a few magic tricks in a tent, and pass the hat around.
Re:Bank balance over nation. (Score:4, Informative)
Problem is the Proud Boys are shooting people, setting fire to churches and more. Imagine the reaction from the right if literally anyone else did that.
Ripping off a few people is one thing, these asshats are trying to start a civil war, all for a quick buck.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
To give some pretext for Trump to declare "The law and order situation is dire. I am invoking insurrection act and declaring martial law."
Re:Bank balance over nation. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's imagine that he did. Let's remember here that members of the US military swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. US forces are not like the militaries of, say, Britain or Canada, where an oath is sworn to the Queen. The military take orders from the President as Command in Chief, but his power to do so is derived from the Constitution. The idea that the US military would facilitate some sort coup via martial law is absurd. About the only thing I can see happening out of that is Trump's early eviction from the White House. A few Proud Boys and Antifa goons throwing shit at each other is not an insurrection, it's a riot, and state authorities, while certainly free to request Federal aid, are the ones generally empowered in such events.
Now if a state attempts to secede, well, we know what Lincoln's theory was on that.
Re: (Score:3)
And yet the head of the Party of Lincoln in Texas actually hinted strongly at secession. It's almost unbelievable, except that Texas has already seceded from their parent country twice and they've probably got the blueprints on how to do it still on file.
Re: (Score:3)
But Trump just claimed the wide spread voter fraud happened and the election was stolen from him without any basis in fact. Why would he not just call it a rebellion and invoke Insurrection Act?
Yes, the guard rails held, from Supreme Court down to state election officials, many of them Republican did the right thing. And its inconceivable our military would obey such an order. But ... one ex General actually called for martial law.
I am not able laugh at t
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
People who are outraged are people who are manipulable. Even better, they're not rational by definition.
Re: (Score:3)
So, almost all the donations given to "fight" the lawsuits are going straight into paying down Trump's campaign debts and future campaigning. The restrictions on the use of the money are almost non-existent. I think we know what Trump really wants he's playing the "MAGA" suckers to the very end. If he damages America whilst doing it? Well maybe there'll be another opportunity to profit or to get Iwanka or one of his other little mini-mes a public office.
You are correct sir! But, to be fair, how donations are distributed is actually noted in the fine print on Trump's fund-raising website, albeit surrounded in a little math that many people will simply gloss over.
In short, the whole stop the steal outrage is just a fund raising scheme for Trump's post-election PAC.
Re:Bank balance over nation. (Score:4, Interesting)
The thing is that even if Ivanka makes a run for the Senate, I actually don't think she's an idiot. I cannot imagine her behaving like her father.
Re: (Score:3)
She may not be an idiot, but I haven't seen much that would indicate she is significantly more intelligent than an average person.
I am so glad to be watching this from a distance. (Score:5, Interesting)
But from my perspective, Donny Trump is a bully, and that is all. For a very long time it has worked for him, but it seems finally that he had hit the end of a long road. I can't wait to see where it goes from here.
I still wouldn't be surprised to see him try to declare martial law or some such just before Jan 20.
Off to buy more popcorn.
Re:I am so glad to be watching this from a distanc (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't imagine martial law. It's pretty clear that while Republican lawmakers are forced to stand in his corner for political purposes, there's little appetite to enable him any further. Even his own cabinet seems to be backing away; Barr in particular has clearly decided there's nothing more to be gained by even giving Trump blanks for his fantasy presidential gun.
I think the next steps largely revolve around whether Trump thinks he can pardon himself. If he believes he can get away with it, he'll do it right at the tail end of his term. If he doesn't feel he can get away with it, he'll resign and Pence will do it for him.
Re:I am so glad to be watching this from a distanc (Score:5, Insightful)
There doesn't seem to be much point. Any federal charges would have to fight through the sticky issues of whether a US president is legally responsible for any crimes he may have committed while in office.
The various state charges being lined up against Trump and family don't have that issue, and aren't subject to a federal pardon.
Not saying Trump won't pardon himself. I expect he will, because it will enrage half the population when he does it, and the other half when it's challenged.
Re: (Score:3)
Not saying Trump won't pardon himself.
He can claim to pardon himself, but it can't happen. Thanks to Nixon, it's already been decided a president cannot pardon themselves [bloomberg.com].
"Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the president cannot pardon himself," wrote Mary Lawton, who was then acting assistant attorney general.
That's as clear cut as it gets. If you commit a crime, you can't then pardon yourself.
Re:I am so glad to be watching this from a distanc (Score:4, Interesting)
Ford's pardoning of Nixon for all crimes he may committed while in office wasn't contested, so while blanket pardons may be dubious in some respects, it appears that at least one President felt his power to pardon was that extensive. And if Trump is pardoned, it would mean the next Attorney General would have to spend months or years trying to unwind the pardons in the Federal Courts. Biden has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to occupy his presidency with Trump, so if Trump pardons himself, or resigns and gets Pence to do it, I have a feeling whatever Biden's private feelings, he won't want anyone in the Administration giving Trump any more oxygen. My view is if Trump doesn't find away to get himself pardoned, I think Biden should do it for him, just to get rid of the "national nightmare".
Re:I am so glad to be watching this from a distanc (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, Nixon was pardoned for essentially political crimes while in office. Once he was out the appetite and ability to prosecute for crimes while in office would have been week. Whereas Trump is potentially facing real crimes not having anything to do with his office but for his business dealings before taking office.
Re:I am so glad to be watching this from a distanc (Score:5, Informative)
Whereas Trump is potentially facing real crimes not having anything to do with his office but for his business dealings before taking office.
The president can't pardon people for state crimes, so he's likely to still be charged and tried at least in New York.
Re: (Score:3)
Any challenge to the electoral votes for a given state has to get through both houses of Congress, so that's not going to happen.
Re:I am so glad to be watching this from a distanc (Score:5, Interesting)
If I were Trump I would arrange to be on a "state visit" to somewhere that didn't have an extradition treaty with the US when my term ended.
Re: (Score:3)
The senate counts the vote only. Any state's vote can be challenged, or any individual elector's vote for that matter. But such objection must be approved by both house and senate. Even if the senate rejects every one it will still pass. Assuming that Pence follows the law. But even if Pence breaks the laws it won't make a difference. Everyone will know that Trump didn't win through legal methods and when it comes time to hand over the White House keys they will know which person to give them to. It
You're Fired! (Score:4, Informative)
Now pack you shit and get the fuck out.
Re: (Score:3)
That's totally what Biden should have said in his victory speech. I really hope he says that in the inauguration. Someone start a petition.
Insisting he was a Failure, not a Loser. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a president that in 2016 claimed that Democrats had stolen 3 million votes and who back in September claimed that Democrats were planning on stealing the election.
So he clearly 'knew' about their plans.
He then proceed to appoint the heads of the FBI, the FEC, the DOJ, and Homeland.
He then packed all the courts, including picking 1/3 of the current Supreme Court Justices.
With 4 years lead time and total power to investigate it, he and his appointees were unable to convince any of the judges he appointed that a crime was committed.
He is claiming that he is the biggest FAILURE of a president, not the biggest loser, because his people failed to stop the Democrats from 'stealing' the election.
All because he can't admit that the American people as a whole did not fall for his obvious lies and hate his guts for killing 300,000 american citizens via Covid, losing millions of jobs, kidnapping hundreds of children from illegal immigrants and not sending them home when their parents went home (I mean really - don't you WANT to send those kids home?) and a hundred other failures.
Re:Insisting he was a Failure, not a Loser. (Score:5, Insightful)
He sprung this booby trap in his followers during the election. Now they can't believe how he possibly could have lost. Oh wait, yes they do, it was a conspiracy! He told us this would happen!
But the real truth? Over half the country just flat doesn't want him as president anymore. It's that simple.
Re:Insisting he was a Failure, not a Loser. (Score:5, Insightful)
But the real truth? Over half the country just flat doesn't want him as president anymore. It's that simple.
Just to be clear, over half of the country didn't want him as president the first time around either.
Re:Insisting he was a Failure, not a Loser. (Score:5, Insightful)
Brilliant post. 100% agree.
We had 4 years of him appointing clueless people. 4 damn years of excuses and playing victim. Remember his BS of only hiring the "best people" .. people like John Bolton? Whom he fired after a year of wreaking havoc. Or Rex Tillerson .. whom he fired after a year .. Or Jeff Sessions? Whom he fired .. Or Bill Barr .. who he is firing. Of course the average Trump supporter won't even know the names of the people I just mentioned, let alone hold him accountable for being unable to take control of his own agencies. Those are the idiots who will vote for him in 2024.
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No, he filled existing vacancies, that's not 'packing the courts'... unless you subscribe to newspeak.
Re:Insisting he was a Failure, not a Loser. (Score:4, Informative)
Uhm, were you born yesterday?
Remember how a Supreme Court justice died during Obama's term? But the Senate refused to fill it. Just like they had been doing for all judges.
The GOP was NOT filling existing vacancies. They literally spent 2 years refusing to let Obama fill ANY Judgeship. When you fill vacancies that existed TWO YEARS and leave none for the next guy, that is called packing the court.
Nobody cares if Trump concedes (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Nobody cares if Trump concedes (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no constitutional requirement for any candidate to concede, all it shows is what a graceless arsehole Trump is
No, there's no constitutional requirement. Yet there is a very, very good reason that all previous presidents going back 150 years have done so. It's important. It matters. The reason it matters is because the heat of a campaign revs people up for a fight, sets them against one another. So candidates have made a practice of conceding graciously, congratulating their opponent, expressing support for democracy and the decision of the people at least, and very often expressing admiration of their opponent personally. And perhaps most importantly, they call for the people to come together, telling their supporters that it's time to end the battle and reunite with their countrymen on the other side.
They do this because it matters. Even with it, tensions inevitably remain, but they're softened, gentled, as we're reminded that we prize democracy over party ideology, and nation over party. What Trump is doing is much worse than just exhibiting gracelessness, and even more than failing to ameliorate the conflict. He's pumping it up. His decision is going to cause deaths, and it's going to make it harder for the next administration to do the important work of governing. It could push us toward civil war, though I think that's very unlikely. But some hotheads will try, just watch.
Trump isn't doing this because he wants war, of any sort. He doesn't care. He just wants to not be a loser, because his fragile, narcissistic ego can't take it. But it's doing and will continue doing real damage for quite some time, especially since he's not going to fade quietly away. He's going to continue pumping the bellows after he leaves the White House.
Technically interesting bits about '20 election? (Score:5, Insightful)
There got to be some, given unprecedented number of mail ballots. Authentication, tamper resistance, timely counts - those are the things I would expect to read about on slashdot. I have no doubt that there are many people happy or unhappy about the election, but there is no shortage of other sites where they can express their views. Why turn this one into an another partisan shill?
Trump's Electoral College Promise (Score:5, Funny)
Bittersweat victory of democracy. (Score:5, Interesting)
USA survived one of the most dangerous coup attempts it it's history, yet the democracy wounds of this battle will not heal for a long time. The current president phenomenon has not been born with his candidacy, but was a symptom of a deep division in the society, fallen standards of the media coverage, homophobia and a willingness and hunger for a supreme leader, who better dare not be questioned, and absolute trust in his word by large part of US citizens.
GOP echelon tasted absolute power, once tasted will not be given up easily:
- hiring closest direct family,
- openly benefiting financially from a public office in direct payments to ones businesses,
- disregarding subpoena,
- refusal to even consider opposition candidates,
- changing rules as they fit,
- directly pressuring elected officials to overrule the will of people,
BTW, it's not over yet, I heard Pence is responsible for officially counting Electoral votes.
And I am not saying the other side are angels - politics attracts liars. What I am saying is that the USA democracy has been seriously wounded, and it's up to USA citizens to heal it with staying united, respecting opposition and voting for characters and the USA not a party.
Fraud Claims Unanswered question (Score:4, Interesting)
Arizona: Biden 50%, Trump 47% --- ultimately went to Biden
Florida: Biden 51%, Trump 48% --- ultimately went to Trump
Michigan: Biden 51%, Trump 44% --- ultimately went to Biden
North Carolina: Biden 49%, Trump 47% --- ultimately went to Trump
Pennsylvania: Biden 50%, Trump 46% --- ultimately went to Biden
Wisconsin: Biden 53%, Trump 45% --- ultimately went to Biden
So:
1) If these voter fraud methods are so effective, why didn't Biden win Florida and North Carolina?
2) Why would the Biden campaign have bothered committing fraud in Georgia or Nevada?
3) Also, Biden was up in all of these swing states, even if the polls were off, it'd be a safe bet to think he'd win most of them, so why bother doing the fraud at all?
Seems to me that the party with the biggest motivation to commit fraud, based on the poll numbers, would have been the Trump campaign.
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It's shameful. Every last bit of it, utterly shameful. The whole last 4 years, nothing but shame and disgrace, and none of it had to happen this way. Topping it all off is this massive dumps
Re:To paraphrase Serenity (Score:5, Insightful)
The right wing press was predicting civil war in 2008 and 2012, when Obama won, and it didn't happen. Let's remember here all this talk of a group of red states seceding from the Union involves states like Texas, where Biden received 46% of the vote. Let's imagine Texas seceding. What's going to happen to the 5.2 million Texans that voted for Trump? I'm sure there are plenty of sore voters in some of the red states, maybe even a majority, but it's not some vast majority that's going to march off to blast holes in Fort Sumter. This isn't 1860, there isn't a single issue that divides the country; there's just a lot of Republican voters who are angry Trump lost.
Re:To paraphrase Serenity (Score:5, Informative)
where is there any proof that those lawsuit are from trump or the trump campaign?
Your trolling is pathetic. You need to step up your game.
One Wisconsin lawsuit [pbs.org].
Two Wisconsin lawsuits [dailycaller.com].
One Pennsylvania lawsuit [thehill.com].
Two Pennsylvania lawsuits [fox29.com].
Three, four, five, six, seven, eight Pennsylvania lawsuits [forbes.com].
Another Pennsylvania lawsuit, this one before the election was even held [cnn.com].
Now, I could go on, but facts won't change your trolling. Nor will the facts change: the con artist and Joe Biden will be our next president.
Re:To paraphrase Serenity (Score:5, Informative)
You misread or didn't understand what happened nor what the Justices said. They did not rule the suit was without merit.
The Supreme Court ruled 7-2 that Texas can't have any say in how other states run their elections.
The State of Texas’s motion for leave to file a bill of complaint is denied for lack of standing under Article III of the Constitution. Texas has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections.
And some justices even stated the SC should at least hear these type of cases since there is no other court venue per the constitution.
Two of them said that the Supreme Court has to hear the case, but that they would have voted against Texas anyway, so it would have been a 9-0 decision.
Re: Nobody cares. (Score:4, Informative)
But he did intervene in Syria. Maybe Clinton would have made a bigger crater, maybe she would have committed troops. But we have no way of knowing, because the Hillary Clinton presidency, so often talked about over the last four years, is a fantasy of the political right, a fantasy bogeyman that never was.
Re: Nobody cares. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure he did -- he sent 300,000 Americans to their death in the name of corporate profits and "keeping the economy going", while the GOP Senate handed out millions of dollars to their Corporate Sponsors and openly laughed when asked about more stimulus for the Tax Paying Piece Of Shit Public who are falling into poverty and homelessness thanks to Trumps masterful handling of the Pandemic
And now thanks to Trump and people like you -- we will enjoy a 9/11 every day for months on end as the death count piled up
And the Chinese Takeover of the Planet? That's on you assholes who scream "I don't want to pay for some other schmucks Education!" and "I don't want my Taxes to pay foe someone else's Health Care!"
America is a Nation of ignorant, uneducated fuckwits that can't even get medical care. How can such a Nation lead the global economy, much less not wind up as just another 3rd World Shithole when the dollar crashes and that $30,000,000,000,000 debt we've racked up tanks our economy forever?
Re: Nobody cares. (Score:4, Interesting)
Trump never sent anyone to wars.
Notice that it didn't seem to matter to voters. Where is the winning margin for the first truly anti-war presidency since.... I honestly don't know.
How many countries walked away from nuclear treaties or committed genocides during those four years because they knew President Trump would do nothing? Not going to war unnecessarily is certainly a good thing, but on the flip side, if the U.S. doesn't serve as the policemen of the world, who will?
Re: Nobody cares. (Score:5, Insightful)
None did.
The estimated 43,000 dead Rohingya in Myanmar would beg to differ with you.
The Obama/Biden/Clinton/Bush wars were not good things.
The Bush Jr. wars were not good things. The U.S. got in way over its head based on poor intel, and they had no exit strategy.
But ask the folks in Kosovo what they think of U.S. intervention under Clinton. Or the people of Haiti. Or Bosnia.
And look at how well appeasement worked in WWII.
Not all military intervention is bad.
Re: Nobody cares. (Score:5, Insightful)
isn't complaining about politics a protected liberty? Why does anyone who voted for Biden not get to bitch about him? Heck, the left wing of the Democratic party is pretty pissed with some of his cabinet picks. But that's the point. The Framers never intended that Presidents be treated like omnipotent Pharaohs, to be followed by unquestioning supporters. Quite the opposite, they expected, nay actually wanted citizens to petition the government, to bitch about the government, to write long screeds about the government. They didn't want the English model of Kings being treated like demigods, they wanted the rough and tumble of a vibrant and spirited political system.
And you can be sure if the Republicans hang on to the Senate, they're going to make the Biden presidency a painful experience. There will be gridlock for at least the next two years as the two houses war with each other. God, even the confirmation hearings for Biden's cabinet are going to be brutal.
But you know what. The one thing we won't have is the President of the United States tweeting semi-coherently at all hours. That alone will make Trump's defeat worth it.
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In a free country, people can bitch about whatever they like, no matter how many letters you capitalize.
Re: Nobody cares. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re: Nobody cares. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why doesn't it? Those military actions didn't start under Trump. Trump never supported any of that shit. It is clearly a hit piece on Trump. You might have hated Trump, but you don't get to call him a warmonger. But don't worry. You "won", remember? You have Biden (again). He loves wars. He waged FIVE of them while he was VP. Total "winning".
One thing about MAGAs like yourself, you bawl real purdy. Your cult leader only wanted to make himself president for life, and your idea that he is some sort of pacifist is just another MAGA reality distortion that is only true for MAGAs. "Donald Trump 'very proud' after dropping 'Mother of All Bombs' on Afghanistan"
https://www.independent.co.uk/... [independent.co.uk] So bawl away MAGA, The USA is stronger than you folks who wish to destroy us and install some sort of Monaarchy led by your cult leader tho placed you in the reality distortion field.
Can you dig up how the pother presidents are proud of dropping a MOAB? I thought not, perhaps you can find one on parler,
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Rolling results are on the front page of the NYT. Ever state but Hawaii has had their electors vote, with none being faithless.
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Re:Untold story: Voting machines programmed to che (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Four year campaign coming up. (Score:5, Insightful)
Right, it's the Democrats that are obstructionists. I think it's hysterical that you think that a political party can do anything to fight executive orders coming from the opposing party. That's literally why executive orders are used, because the opposition has no power to prevent them.
But yes, Biden will be obstructed at every turn as has already been promised by many Republicans, just like was done during Obama's terms and Clinton's before that. There is no both-sides-ism bullshit here. One party is obstructionist, not both.
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Even in Florida, there's some concern that he can't use Mar-a-Lago as his official residence. This is because he signed an agreement with the city that the property would not be used as a residence. However since the laws of the entire United States are readily ignored by Trump, it's unlikely that the laws of a city will cause him any concern.