Russian Trolls Now Just Push Divisive Content Created By Others (theatlantic.com) 213
"Americans don't need Russia's polarizing influence operations. They are plenty good enough at dividing themselves," writes the Atlantic's national security reporter, arguing that "the new face of Russian propaganda" is just a carefully-curated selection of inflammatory content made by Americans themselves.
Citing the Mueller investigation, the article notes the irony that America's two front-runners for the presidency are now "both candidates Russian trolls sought to promote in 2016," calling them "far apart ideologically but nearly equally suited to the Kremlin's interests, both in being divisive at home and in encouraging U.S. restraint abroad." In 2016, the Kremlin invested heavily in creating memes and Facebook ads designed to stoke Americans' distrust of the electoral system and one another... The Russian government is still interfering, but it doesn't need to do much creative work anymore... Americans are now the chief suppliers of the material that suspected Russia-linked accounts use to stoke anger ahead of U.S. elections, leaving Russia free to focus on pushing it as far as possible. Darren Linvill, a Clemson University professor who has studied Russian information operations, has seen Russian trolls shift tactics to become "curators more than creators," with the same goal of driving Americans apart. "The Russians love those videos," he said, "because they function to make us more disgusted with one another...."
[The article cites actions by Russia's "Internet Research Agency" in America's 2018 elections.] The organization was still creating memes, and it got an even bigger budget, according to Graham Brookie, the director of the Digital Forensic Research Lab at the Atlantic Council think tank. But it also began using more of what Americans themselves were putting on the internet, seizing on divisive debates about immigration, gun control, and police shootings of unarmed black men, using real news stories to highlight genuine anger and dysfunction in American politics... Russian trolls can largely just watch Americans fight among themselves, and use fictitious Twitter personas to offer vigorous encouragement... They will keep prodding the same bruises in American society, or encouraging cries of electoral fraud if there's a contested Democratic primary or a tight general election.
Alina Polyakova, the president and CEO of the Center for European Policy Analysis, tells the Atlantic that "a U.S. that's mired in its own domestic problems and not engaged in the world benefits Moscow."
Citing the Mueller investigation, the article notes the irony that America's two front-runners for the presidency are now "both candidates Russian trolls sought to promote in 2016," calling them "far apart ideologically but nearly equally suited to the Kremlin's interests, both in being divisive at home and in encouraging U.S. restraint abroad." In 2016, the Kremlin invested heavily in creating memes and Facebook ads designed to stoke Americans' distrust of the electoral system and one another... The Russian government is still interfering, but it doesn't need to do much creative work anymore... Americans are now the chief suppliers of the material that suspected Russia-linked accounts use to stoke anger ahead of U.S. elections, leaving Russia free to focus on pushing it as far as possible. Darren Linvill, a Clemson University professor who has studied Russian information operations, has seen Russian trolls shift tactics to become "curators more than creators," with the same goal of driving Americans apart. "The Russians love those videos," he said, "because they function to make us more disgusted with one another...."
[The article cites actions by Russia's "Internet Research Agency" in America's 2018 elections.] The organization was still creating memes, and it got an even bigger budget, according to Graham Brookie, the director of the Digital Forensic Research Lab at the Atlantic Council think tank. But it also began using more of what Americans themselves were putting on the internet, seizing on divisive debates about immigration, gun control, and police shootings of unarmed black men, using real news stories to highlight genuine anger and dysfunction in American politics... Russian trolls can largely just watch Americans fight among themselves, and use fictitious Twitter personas to offer vigorous encouragement... They will keep prodding the same bruises in American society, or encouraging cries of electoral fraud if there's a contested Democratic primary or a tight general election.
Alina Polyakova, the president and CEO of the Center for European Policy Analysis, tells the Atlantic that "a U.S. that's mired in its own domestic problems and not engaged in the world benefits Moscow."
KGB Sleeper Agent ACTIVATE! (Score:4, Funny)
Sieg HEIL!!! -- Putin
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Re: (Score:2)
Russian Nazis? Indy will be pissed.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
So what?
Recognizing swindlers is the first step toward avoiding being swindled.
The funny thing to me is that you know all the media dweebs who complain about Putin would line up with their kneepads if he just declared himself to be a communist again.
Just like they can't stop fawning of Xi Jinping and Kim Jong-Un. There are a lot of legitimate criticisms that can be leveled at particular media outlets in the U.S. and the media ecosystem as a whole. You don't have to resort to secret-communist-agenda nonsense. Has it occurred to you that people complain about Putin because he actively works to undermine democracies?
Re: So what? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't acknowledge stupidity.
No, you just dish it out. If your only response to any comment is standing up and knocking down strawmen then you are in fact the stupid one.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh poor you. You can't converse like a proper adult so you're crying about it.
Russians didn't get Trump elected. Grow up already.
Hard to say but they certainly helped. All of our intelligence agencies agree.
Re: (Score:2)
Nit: The meme that seventeen intelligence agencies agreed is just that. No, seventeen did not investigate and come to that conclusion (even though it's the right one). People just love to toss out a number because it makes them sound like they know what they're talking about.
https://www.politifact.com/art... [politifact.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Hahahaha. From your own frick'n article's title.
"17 intelligence organizations or 4? Either way, Russia conclusion still valid"
Good lord man, I just don't know what to even say here...
Re: (Score:2)
You misunderstand my point. The OP was asking "so what?" in response to the article, as if it lacked a point or value. My point is that it's important for the press to identify those who wish to interfere with our elections. It's no different than reporters writing about any other scam.
Your questions miss the point. And your final sentence is just a reinforcement of my point, because the most important function of a free press is to identify wrongdoings by governments and make that information public.
Yes. In this country. (Score:5, Informative)
The first amendment applies to Russian trolls? O RLY?
In this country, it does.
"Congress shall make no law" means exactly what it says.
Individual dissent is protected speech, even if it's been made by a non-citizen.
Re:Yes. In this country. (Score:5, Interesting)
Individual dissent is protected speech, even if it's been made by a non-citizen.
True, as long as the speech is made IN AMERICA.
But constitutional rights do not apply to foreigners under American authority outside America. In particular, the Supreme Court ruled in 1901 that the US government was free to search, detain, imprison, torture, and kill Filipinos without regard for due process of law, and, of course, to taxation without representation.
Supreme Court: Insular cases [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Individual dissent is protected speech, even if it's been made by a non-citizen.
When a foreign government makes a concerted effort to enrage, confuse, or frighten US voters, with the aim of supporting a specific candidate in an election -- or even to inflame domestic partisan conflicts -- that's not individual dissent. That's information warfare.
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Re: Yes. In this country. (Score:2, Informative)
Freedom of speech means freedom after speech, you goddamned Nazi.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps you should read up on the constitution and the federalist papers before posting such nonsense.
Re: Yes. In this country. (Score:2)
Did they actually say that?
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On what basis can the Federal government of the United States of America extend rights to non-citizens living outside the country? It's a matter of jurisdiction.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
On what basis can the Federal government of the United States of America extend rights to non-citizens living outside the country?
Governments do not grant or "extend" rights.
Governments recognize rights.
If the government grants you something, such as a pension or healthcare, that is not a "right" but an "entitlement".
An entitlement is something the government is obligated to give you.
A right is something the government is prohibited from taking from you.
Please let me know if you need more clarification.
Re: (Score:3)
But in order for that right to have any meaning, it must have jurisdiction, or else the right"recognized" by the government is meaningless.
Otherwise we'd be all over Europe for violating the Second Amendment, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
No, the rights in the constitution were considered 'natural rights' (or god-given as they declared) by the founders. Hence why they seceded from the UK. They apply in Europe and the world as well, the problem in Europe is nobody is there to protect your first amendment rights if you exercise them, so you don't get any of the other rights (that are corollaries to the first).
Re: (Score:2)
Your analysis on jurisdiction is keen and you are right about your observation. The rights have to exist in some jurisdiction in order to be recognized so how do they come into existence if they aren't in the jurisdiction of the govt? Answer: they come from our Creator as natural rights.
It's pretty genius if you think about it. Regardless of who or what you think "the Creator" is, the designation of a Creator means government will never
Re: (Score:2)
Governments do not grant or "extend" rights.
Governments recognize rights.
But in the real world, there's no such thing as a natural right. There are only things someone stops you from doing, things no one cares if you do, and things that other help you do yourself. "Recognizing rights" is just a moral construct. Something we want, but rights aren't handed down by any creator, they're all stuff that we make up ourselves that we collectively think are a pretty good idea.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Your right to free speech is not impinged by the perjury clause. You still have the right to speak falsely about things, it's just that there are consequences to it. You misunderstand the right to free speech completely (a lot of Americans don't have proper civic education anymore), the right to free speech is absolute unless you have been judged by a jury of your peers to not be able to exercise any of your rights.
It is the first and most important natural right you have, all the other rights follow from i
Re: (Score:2)
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So American politicians have to protect the rights of people not living in the United States and not citizens of the United States, according to the Bill of Rights? That's never been true.
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BTW, this also happens to be a major difference between the USA and other Euro philosophies of government. In most of Europe a persons rights are bestowed upon them by the government or Monarch. One of the beautiful things about the USA Constitution is freedom from this restriction.
Yes, yes, I know
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
So what you are saying is that since there is actually no creator, there are no rights.
The only NEW thing about Russian trolls... (Score:4, Informative)
The only new thing about Russian trolls in recent years is that they now play to both — the Left and the Right.
Previously, during the ideologically-pure years of USSR, they played for the Left only [medium.com] — and, somehow, this was not a problem for the likes of The Atlantic.
Re: (Score:2)
they now play to both — the Left and the Right.
Capitalism, babe! Hedge your bets. What could be more natural?
So, peace is a commie plot, eh?
Re: (Score:3)
You might be more right than you know.
https://youtu.be/jETJt_zbnKk?t... [youtu.be]
Old Soviet propaganda picture showing Capitalist bankers snarling at "peace" protesters, from 1963. It's also pretty well-known that the US Communist Party received Soviet funding, and some of that funding may or may not have been directed towards ginning up protest movements, particularly against the Vietnam war. The FBI launched Operation COINTELPRO to dig further into the matter, and while Hoover's methods were arguably pretty awful
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The "Peace" movement certainly was a Russian plot, as the article I linked to proves beyond reasonable doubt.
Sometimes... sometimes our enemies can actually have good ideas. Ideas that are worth going for even if we do them for different reasons.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, totally, the US — which stopped Communism and defeated Nazism (the first and the second most-murderous schools of thought known to humanity respectively) — need needed some fresh ideas about peace from those, who've attached numerous neighbors before and after the World War 2, and started the World War 2 itself on the side of Hitler.
Right. Now imagine your own reaction t
Re: (Score:2)
No, it was not, and I never said that it was.
Their Navy did participate, actually — on the side of the North. Which is especially funny, because Russia itself had the peasants enslaved at the time.
Given that you have to say on the original topic, I take it, you concede the point.
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I've been pretty confident that is what they've been doing for years. There is a really good video on youtube "What is Maskirovka [youtube.com] it is about the art of disinformation as practiced by Russian intelligence. The guy is an expert on its use in WW2, but as soon as I watched it, I was staggered by the parallels at work today.
The objective of Maskirovka [wikipedia.org] is not to convince people that one or other is better, but to soe disharmony and distrust amongst their opponents, getting people to continuously second guess the
Re: (Score:2)
It was a problem for the likes of McCarthy — who were quite right — but it was not a problem for The Atlantic's kind, who are only expressing concern about such foreign meddling now. Which is my point...
Re: (Score:2)
Irony (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a massively underappreciated irony that the same folks who cheered when Obama mocked Mitt Romney for calling Russia our number one geopolitical foe are consumed by fear over the big bad Russian boogeyman today.
Russian's didn't get Trump elected and they're not gonna get Bernie elected. Nations meddle in the elections of other nations all the time, stop acting so mortified because you finally realized that it happens to us too.
Re: (Score:3)
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consumed by fear over the big bad Russian boogeyman today.
More than Russian meddling, I am concerned that our Congress Republicans seem wholly unwilling to do anything to mitigate it.
Take HR 4617 [house.gov] for instance. It moves to protect us from foreign influence with uncontroversial common-sense measures that should have easy bipartisan support, but had no Republican votes in the House and the Senate Republicans aren't even willing to consider it.
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"Uncontroversial common-sense measures", eh? In my experience, it's never a good sign in politics when anything is described as "common sense". It avoids having to justify the actual details of whatever's being proposed in favour of a cheap insinuation against whoever opposes it.
Re: (Score:2)
"Stop complaining" is just a way to avoid doing anything about the problem because your guy happens to be benefiting from it.
This election is going to be worse than the last one if nothing changes. A crook verses a communist is how it will be portrayed. Some of your own media are little more than meme machines now, e.g. Fox, meaning that they are easy to manipulate by anyone who can push memes with their network of fake accounts.
Honestly the best defence now might be too just push your own sabotage memes th
Trolling for clicks (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
It's the nature of the clickbait that they're pushing that's relevant. It's political in nature, not brownie recipes.
We should be asking who benefits (Score:3)
Meanwhile a divided nation is much easier for the 1% to rule over. We fight among ourselves at each other's throats while they take all the spoils of victory.
There's an old joke I've told before, A rich man and two workers are at a table. There's 12 cookies on the table. The rich man gobbles up 11 cookies and turns to one of the workers to say "Hey, better watch out, that guy's gonna eat your cookie".
That's the real division in America.
Oh I see... (Score:2)
encouraging cries of electoral fraud if there's a contested Democratic primary
If Bernie gets screwed again by the DNC, anyone who speaks up in protest will be "helping the Russians"
So maybe the lesson is: (Score:3)
Going psycho over Trump (or Bernie) is exactly what they want.
So just calm the fuck down, no matter who wins, and live your life.
Re: (Score:2)
Going psycho over Trump (or Bernie) is exactly what they want.
So just calm the fuck down, no matter who wins, and live your life.
That's kind of what they want in the long run. [rand.org] Russian propaganda is designed to push out so many conflicting narratives that people lose faith in their ability to discern the truth. That way they will "calm the fuck down, no matter who wins," and won't protest in the streets. If they can push America toward an oligopoly, all the better for them because businessmen are easier to negotiate with. If the can push America toward electing an isolationist whom everyone else in the government hates, all the bette
Senpai noticed me! (Score:2)
Love you too, Uncle Pooty.
Re: (Score:2)
I still remember the innocent times before we were conquered by the shirtless horseman.
Russians (Score:2)
Whenever people keep talking about Russian meddling this is all I can think of https://66.media.tumblr.com/7e... [tumblr.com]
Russia again? (Score:2)
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Quod licet Iovi, non licet ursa ? (Score:2)
Soooo...
When USA pours dollars dissenting voices in other countries it's about promoting democracy and pluralism but suddenly, when someone gives them the taste of their own medicine, those are interfering Russian trolls.
Talk about double standards...
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Strangely (Score:2)
Did the Russians also start Microsoft? (Score:2)
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"And in a society with a real free press, like ours, false tales of a corrupt do not stand the test of time."
Haha. Oh my. How naive. I guess you must be one of the "college educated" or "intelligent ones".
Re:Cultural Differences (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at the comments above and the many educated die-hard Trump fans on this very site. Being intelligent doesn't mean that one is moral.
I appreciate your optimism, but I don't have high hopes. I also don't have as much faith in the free press acting as a restraint on corruption. We have reached a point where there is such an overabundance of information that people can mine it for whatever narrative makes them feel best. (Unfortunately, I think I need to include the necessary caveat that I'm not arguing against a free press—I just don't think we've culturally adapted to the internet in a way that this information can always producing functional meanings).
Re: Cultural Differences (Score:2)
Re: Cultural Differences (Score:4, Insightful)
More than arrogant: dangerous. If you try to disagree, you are racist, sexist, whateverist. Those things are (rightly) immoral. Unfortunately for these people they overplayed their hand. People are tired of being called racist, sexist, whateverist. Its over, but the morons keep pushing the narrative.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
More strawmen! It must be hard being you being persecuted by all of these scarecrows.
Re: Cultural Differences (Score:2)
It's not supposed to be a debate rule, it's pointing out that you're making an argument that is a logical fallacy. It's totally pointless to argue against a fallacy to begin with.
So with that out of the way, explain to me, why do you think goat rape should be legal?
Re: (Score:2)
No one made them the authority, they're just pointing to the simple fact that you made a logical fallacy. It's just a simple point of fact like saying our country's capital is Washington DC.
The Russians are not causing the problems. Idiots are. Go watch cnn and you will see what gets normal people upset.
That's funny because all of our intelligence services say they are... But yeah, maybe I should just take the guys word who can't even form a rational point of argument.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Lots of people disagree without being called racist, sexist, etc.
But if you are racist, sexist, etc, you don't like it.. They are definitely tired of being called out on their prejudice. So they put forth silly claims like "overplayed their hand", etc.
Intelligent people keep calling them out because while we haven't found a cure for the prejudice, we still have to stop them from trying to force their prejudice down our throat.
As for the silly excuse you put forth - do you really think that there is no rac
Re: Cultural Differences (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm gonna take a safe guess here and say you are the bigot, and the people you bully probably are not.
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Well, you certainly raped that analogy, before torturing it and displaying its mangled corpse in your post for all to see.
Re: Cultural Differences (Score:2)
Just stop raping their goats, that's all we ask!
What hard Left? (Score:4, Insightful)
What hard Left? This country's political spectrum is moderate, right, and hard right.
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The idea that there's no "hard left" in the US is provably false regardless of what metric you're using, by the way. Now, if you had said the "hard left" (whatever you mean by that) doesn
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Oh, look, another idiot that thinks that comparing the American political spectrum to the European one is meaningful!
Well no, I'm comparing us to the rest of the world. It's funny because I never said "Europe" but you some how landed on that. It's almost like you're putting words in my mouth.
They don't measure the same thing, so trying to apply comparisons is the act of the ignorant or the idiots.
By your standards nothing can be compared to anything because everything is hopelessly unique. Fortunately the social sciences completely disagree with you but yeah, I'm the idiot.
Re: (Score:2)
Time for a new country, then. Have you considered emigration to a country that more closely matches your political views? How about Bolivia, Cuba, or Venezuela?
That's funny because I'd recommend such places to you. If you get so hot and bothered over some one having contrary political opinions to your own you certainly don't belong in a liberal democracy.
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Disagreeing with the hard left doesn't make one immoral. How arrogant.
But agreeing with the hard right does make one immoral.
Les Miserables (Score:2)
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If that shite worked, we would not have the Russiagate nonsense. The reality is, it definitely no longer works, it can only work in a vacuum of alternate opinions. They do not buy into the corporate shite, that is the problem, that is why they push Russia gate because their old corporate main stream media bullshit no longer works, stopped working years ago. It's like herding cats, you push corporate propaganda or government deep state propaganda on web and they all leave, they will go where ever they can h
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"deep state doesn't exist"
- gurps_NPC
username checks out
Re: Cultural Differences (Score:2)
My cake is uranium flavoured!
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Not many have been influenced by Russian misinformation. The whole point of the article is to remind us that a lot of the misinformation being parroted by Russian trolls has an American origin. They're just repeating someone else's talking points.
Re: Damn Russians (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: Damn Russians (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
"There are probably about 12 guys in Russia behind all this trolling, and they are probably funded with almost nothing. Yet they get more attention than thousands of others. It is really a buzz word "Russian Trolls""
I tend to agree.
And isn't one of the simplest explanation being that the ones actually funding most of this are both American partisan private interests, and PR companies working for the republican and democrat campaigns, and they're all going through Russian internet marketing companies to hide
Re: Making claims with no real proof (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Making claims with no real proof (Score:2)
The fairness doctrine would totally fuck everything up if it was still applied. Think of it like this: You're not allowed to make your post until all viewpoints have been expressed along with it.
Re: (Score:2)
And yet the quality level of our news has absolutely plummeted since it was eliminated.
I'm not saying its elimination caused all of this, but the extreme partisanship of our media has certainly served us far more poorly than the other options ever did.
Re: (Score:2)
Not even necessarily signal-boosting Americans. If I remember rightly, one of the less-advertised details about the 2016 Russian interference on Facebook is that they were reposting content created by Americans and reaching a much smaller audience than the originals. Their Tumblr operations were more pervasive, but those were targeted mostly at the left wing and were downplayed a lot more by the media.
Re: (Score:2)
A lot of people here seem to oppose education on the basis that it creates more competition for them in the job market.
Short term thinking and fighting the people who are your natural allies are why we are in this mess.
Re: (Score:2)
At the end of the day I'm just a regular dude
No, you're a conspiracy theorists who has lost touch with reality.