EPA Rolls Back Obama-Era Regulations On Clean Water (wsj.com) 206
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Wall Street Journal: President Trump's administration has rescinded an Obama-era policy that expanded federal oversight and the threat of steep fines for polluting the country's smaller waterways (Warning: source paywalled; alternative source), furthering his deregulatory efforts in the 14 months that remain before the next election. Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Andrew Wheeler on Thursday signed a final rule that limits the scope of federal clean-water regulations in an effort to clear up confusion for landowners whose property sits near water sources that feed into the country's network of major rivers. The Obama administration in 2015 had expanded federal oversight upstream, it said, to better protect wildlife and the country's drinking-water supply from industrial runoff and pollution.
Mr. Wheeler called that expansion an overreach, saying it grew to cover dry land in some cases. Farmers, property developers, chemical manufacturers and oil-and-gas producers -- some of whom are key voter groups for the 2020 election -- have voiced opposition to it, with many saying it overreached by intruding on property owners' rights. Court battles following the Obama-era rule have led to fractured rules across the country. Amid the legal challenges, the regulation is in place only in 22 states, though the Trump administration's decision could spark its own series of court fights. Thursday's rule "restores regulatory text that existed before the 2015," the report notes. "Property that is no longer covered by the 1972 Clean Water Act remains protected by state rules. Major waterways, such as most rivers and lakes, were already under protection of the Clean Water Act and still will be after the rollback."
Mr. Wheeler called that expansion an overreach, saying it grew to cover dry land in some cases. Farmers, property developers, chemical manufacturers and oil-and-gas producers -- some of whom are key voter groups for the 2020 election -- have voiced opposition to it, with many saying it overreached by intruding on property owners' rights. Court battles following the Obama-era rule have led to fractured rules across the country. Amid the legal challenges, the regulation is in place only in 22 states, though the Trump administration's decision could spark its own series of court fights. Thursday's rule "restores regulatory text that existed before the 2015," the report notes. "Property that is no longer covered by the 1972 Clean Water Act remains protected by state rules. Major waterways, such as most rivers and lakes, were already under protection of the Clean Water Act and still will be after the rollback."
Love that Dirty Water... (Score:3)
Re: Love that Dirty Water... (Score:3, Funny)
Remember when rivers would catch fire? Your grandparents do. We're bringing back to golden times of river fires!!
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It will be fantastisc. Many people are very happy.
smart (Score:3, Funny)
Brilliant move. Forcing people to walk 7 miles for clean water every day will take care of the obesity epidemic. Perhaps we should all take more inspiration from Sudan.
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The average brisk walking speed is 3 miles per hour for people who walk a lot.
That's ~ 2 hours and 20 minutes a day.
For those who are not walkers, 2 miles per hour is doable.
That's about 3 and a half hours.
For those who want to stroll, it's about 1 mile per hour.
That's 7 hours.
--
So, if we do that every day, we have no time for swimming, biking, weights, or yoga.
Dedicated walking just a few days each week lets you do longer time-frame workouts. Leave the short, high-intensity workouts for your busy days when time is limited. Walking an average of 10,000 steps per day is just shy of 5 miles, and it functions as a benchmark for the minimum number of steps a normal individual should cover daily.
~ Livestrong
Let's roll back Paywalled Links from Obama's era! (Score:5, Insightful)
Why include the paywalled link to the WSJ. I no longer subscribe. It just wastes time.
Can the alternate source just be the only link if the original is pay walled?
We all know WSJ, NYT, WP, and a few others are all paywalled (allowing 0 to a few views per month). Don't link to them.
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Mostly because of Google's News's reliance on the pay walled sources I mentioned.
I have a feeling that a lot of the original sources are from pay to read sources on purpose (people submitting stories that may work at the original source).
And I'm not offended, I just click the first link every time. Mostly a waste of time.
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There is definitely a number of users who are blatant spammers that have articles making it to the front page from: HotHardware, Security Ledger, Vice, and Wired
There are also a bunch of sites that suspiciously are always submitted by anonymous users like ArsTechnica, ZDNet and WSJ.
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Because it is courteous to credit the original source.
What makes you think many of these are an original source instead of a story that everyone is running? These haven't been investigative pieces that I've seen.
Damn it, really? (Score:4, Insightful)
I really hope this news gets to the whole US population... who the hell thinks it's a grand idea to increase pollution in drinking water? Seriously, this sort of shit blows my mind. Fuck... screwing over the people in rural areas like crazy. Want to catch a fish and eat it... go right ahead if you want cancer or babies with no toes. Want to drink water out of a well? Better hope you are 100 miles from the nearest creek or river.
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By "Fuck" I think you meant to say the the battlestar galactica "frac". And if you had you'd also have the explanation of who paid for this and why.
Drilling through Aquifers to get oil (Score:2)
In New Mexico and parts of texas Aquifers like the Olagala sit over the top of oil fields. The oil companies are drilling through the precious aquifers to get to the oil below. These have gotten shut down by, quite logically, imposing barriers to the construction via regulations. But if you can now do industrial activity in proximity to water sources this goes away.
Dirt isn't a river. "Navigable waterways" (Score:2)
Nobody thinks polluting drinking water is a good idea.
Some people think that growing crops on crop land is a good idea.
Other people think that following the law is a good idea.
The law (Clean Water Act) applies certain restrictions to navigable waterways. Navigable meaning a passenger boat can use it for transportation. So for example you aren't allowed to put fertilizer in a river. Duh. The Obama administration claimed that farm land is a "navigable waterway", and therefore you can't put fertilizer on you
Yeah... really (Score:5, Insightful)
I really hope this news gets to the whole US population... who the hell thinks it's a grand idea to increase pollution in drinking water?
A shocking number of Americans do or at least they vote that way and they tend to correlate strongly with Trump voters. They are concerned with hating government (and democrats) even when doing so makes no logical sense. The republicans have found a winning message with a lot of people in the (ridiculous) claim that all taxes and regulations are bad. (even though that makes no logical or factual sense) There is a lot of hating anything that the democrats favor. And for a lot of them anything that they perceive as reducing company profits must be evil. Ironic since this didn't used to be a partisan issue. Now somehow insisting on clean water and that companies don't dump toxic shit is somehow political.
Seriously, this sort of shit blows my mind. Fuck... screwing over the people in rural areas like crazy. Want to catch a fish and eat it... go right ahead if you want cancer or babies with no toes.
The river right by my house has PFAS contamination [freep.com] and I don't live in a rural area. Can't eat the fish from there despite it being a popular fishing spot. This sort of regulatory rollback screws everyone, not just rural and economically disadvantaged folks.
Want to drink water out of a well? Better hope you are 100 miles from the nearest creek or river.
Generally not that bad. Despite the river near me being contaminated my well at my house isn't. (Yes I've had it tested) Our aquifer doesn't draw from the river and the people that do have city water have their water treated at a local plant and tested regularly at schools and similar places. I also use a reverse osmosis system which cleans out a lot of problems. That said I wouldn't go to my local river and take a big drink or eat the fish which is unfortunate.
And that is why you fail (Score:2, Insightful)
A shocking number of Americans do or at least they vote that way and they tend to correlate strongly with Trump voters. They are concerned with hating government (and democrats) even when doing so makes no logical sense.
All of the Trump voters I have ever talked to have very logical reasoning for why they do so.
They simple believe different things than you do as a foundation.
As it turns out, the things they believe are closer to fact than the things you believe. At least in this instance, where Trump voter
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I really hope this news gets to the whole US population... who the hell thinks it's a grand idea to increase pollution in drinking water? Seriously, this sort of shit blows my mind. Fuck... screwing over the people in rural areas like crazy. Want to catch a fish and eat it... go right ahead if you want cancer or babies with no toes. Want to drink water out of a well? Better hope you are 100 miles from the nearest creek or river.
It's really not going to impact his base though. If all the stuff he's already done hasn't impacted his base, this won't. They've spent so much time defending all his atrocities and digging themselves further and fuhrer into a hole trying to defend the indefensible they lack the mental flexibility to do the right thing and reverse tack now. No doubt they will dig themselves even further with this and find themselves completely trapped and without self-will.
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Most of the flat plain USA has shitty tap water. That's no news at all. If you want clean water for drinking or cooking, it costs about a quarter per gallon of filtered water at Walmart. It's very unfair because not many people have the choice to drive to walmart or to install a water filter system at home, but that's how it works.
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[Citation Needed] Most municipal water sources filter their water just as well if not better than the Walmart filter and bottle station. Maybe if you are drinking raw well water you might have issues, but if it's tap water it is already heavily regulated and tested.
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I really hope this news gets to the whole US population...
Don't worry, it'll eventually be distributed via the public water supply network.
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I really hope this news gets to the whole US population... who the hell thinks it's a grand idea to increase pollution in drinking water?
Republicans, small government types, corporations, farmers, and people who don't give a fuck. Unfortunately together they cover a majority of people.
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Re: Damn it, really? (Score:2)
This isnt the clean water act, itâ(TM)s the waterways of America regulations, the clean water act still stands.
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Here's the real issue [hklaw.com]. It's not about pollution, it's about the Obama Administration increasing the scope of navigable waterways to a point where that mud puddle in your back yard from melting snow is now considered a Federally protected wetland. It did not have to be permanent, or even regular, if it was standing water at any time of the year, and was connected in any way (even drainage ditches, or ground water, in any volume - even a milliliter), then it was Federally regulated.
Should the fact you ha
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And yet, somehow, when I needed to repair my roof in 2017, I didn't need to do ANY of those things.
Re:Why do you think this causes any increase? (Score:5, Insightful)
Any waterway that mattered was already covered by existing laws.
No they were not. Major waterways were covered not minor ones. Minor ones feed major ones. And minor ones means that small populations were not covered. Could the legislation been more clear? Sure.
Re: Why do you think this causes any increase? (Score:4, Interesting)
You fail to grasp the sweeping nature of the Obama-era regulations.
They regulated down to waterways that a peak flow grew to less than 9â wide, how do I know? I owned property that was impacted by this. I had a 5 acre lot with small run-off creeks that were on opposite sides of my lot. These regulations limited what I could build on my property at the FEDERAL level. Meaning, if I wanted to put any sort of permanent structure (shed), or expand the footprint of my existing house, I needed to get approval from the same federal agency that determined any construction within 100 yards of an existing waterway could impact the water supply.
Youâ(TM)ve imagined certain scenarios to justify this innocuous sounding set of regulations, but these regulations were over-broad and largely unnecessary.
Re: Why do you think this causes any increase? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Why do you think this causes any increase? (Score:5, Insightful)
There's lots of things we believed centuries ago; that in and of itself is not a compelling argument.
Things that you do on your property can affect the water quality once the water leaves your property. This is why these sorts of laws exist. We—including you, based on your comments—acknowledge that this is a reality, and that waterways need to be protected because pollution doesn't stay where you put it.
So the other comments are right: these regulations SHOULD exist, because them not existing just gives you and a bunch of other people free reign to pollute just because you don't *feel* like it's having an effect on the environment, whether that's actually true or not.
Hermetically seal your property off from other land, and then we can talk about your 'private property'. But until then, you share the land with everyone else around you, and it's not your place to put pollutants in water that reaches them.
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I cannot speak to the existence or lack thereof of a process whereby you could apply for such permitting. If your are required to get a permit but no process exists to obtain one that is most unfortunate and I actually sympathize. Such a process should be in place. The remedy isn't however, to throw out the requirement, but rather create a reasonable, minimum burden necessary means by which to navigate it.
Given however that construction takes place all the time near bodies of water large and small, I ca
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Please see the 2015 regulations [federalregister.gov].where we find: [federalregister.gov]
Tributary streams, including perennial, intermittent, and ephemeral streams, are chemically, physically, and biologically connected to downstream waters, and influence the integrity of downstream waters.
Yes, an ephemeral "stream" - runoff from your roof during a storm, that happens to drain into either a drainage system or even the ground that may be connected to later waters, is regulated per the 2015 rules. That's the problem - the scope was so wide that ANY running - or even still - water on property anywhere was covered as either a stream or a wetland. That is about as minor - miniscule, even - as you can get.
Bird bath or rain barrel on your property th
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"Herp derp that'll show those damn hippies!"
Hatred of hippies creates a distortion field inside their noggins.
Not mentioned... (Score:3, Informative)
...was the actual thing the Obama administration tried to do.
They tried to expand the definition of "navigable waters" to a bizarre degree. It used to mean, basically, "a lake or river that you could use for business or transportation."
The Obama people decided that "navigable" meant "any ditch you could drop a canoe in and have a chance of getting the bottom wet, even i it didn't connect to any other body of water."
They also decided that a "wetland" was "any stretch of ground that ever flooded, even though it was dry the other 99% of the time."
It was a bizarre regulatory overreach that did nothing at all for clean water - it just let them exert power that didn't exist in the statute.
Re:Not mentioned... (Score:5, Informative)
"The Obama people decided that "navigable" meant "any ditch you could drop a canoe in and have a chance of getting the bottom wet, even i it didn't connect to any other body of water.""
That's a predictable side effect of how laws work. We have a bunch of laws which refer only to navigable waterways as if they were relevant to the legislation in question, because it saved them the effort of defining what a waterway meant in the context of that law, and the navigable waterways covered most or all of what they were trying to address.
"They also decided that a "wetland" was "any stretch of ground that ever flooded, even though it was dry the other 99% of the time.""
WP says "The primary factor that distinguishes wetlands from other land forms or water bodies is the characteristic vegetation of aquatic plants, adapted to the unique hydric soil."
If the subsoil remains damp, and the ground floods periodically, it may well fit the definition.
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If the subsoil remains damp, and the ground floods periodically, it may well fit the definition.
Quite right too. If the grounds flood periodically, they connect to other wet lands. Also water tends to seep into grounds and connect at the water table. Lots of people (especially people who live rurally in the US) depend on clean ground water for their water supplies.
This is a big FU to anyone on well water.
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If it doesn't connect to any other body of water, then how is it navigable? I mean, doesn't the term navigable suggest that one can, you know, navigate on it?
If there's nowhere to go, then there's nowhere to navigate your way to, so there's no logic in calling isolated puddles "navigable".
Re: Not mentioned... (Score:2)
You make good, logical sense, but the Obama regulations donâ(TM)t allow for such exceptions, and doesnâ(TM)t allow for appeals - the land owner may only petition the federal government for a waiver, good luck with that!
Don't confuse "how" and "why" (Score:2)
Executives are often constrained in how they can do something as they cannot pass laws. As a result we often see contortions to squeeze desired ends through existing channels. So there are two separable discussions one can have here, one is are you happy with the desired goal? and are you happy with the method used to achieve this? But criticizing one is not a criticism of the other.
SOme examples of things like this. How can the federal government legislate things that occur entirely within the bounds o
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That's not accurate. The 2015 rule was just a technical fix. It did not change the definition of "waters of the U.S." significantly from the GW Bush administration.
If the Obama rule were the radical change that you cite, then repealing it would solve it and restore the status quo ante. But instead the Trump administration has prepared a new rule, still in draft, that would deregulate most of the wetlands in the U.S.
Why do that if you've already repealed the problem?
Re: Not mentioned... (Score:2)
Bullshit. Have you even read the non-paywalled CBS story above? Ask anyone impacted by the regulations, it was not a trivial tweak on the regulations that existed before Obama took office.
You have no idea what the regulations were before, what changes Obama admin made, or what Trump admin changed - if you did you couldnâ(TM)t in good conscience claim what you said.
Have you ever owned land? Have you ever had itâ(TM)s value diminished because someone in Washington decided that the stream that runs a
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When I was a kid in Texas, "navigable water" meant "If you can put a boat in it, Texas owns 14 feet of the bank."
That's how we got to duck hunt on caretaker-administered private lands that the bayou ran through. I remember an old man calling the game warden who told that caretaker that Texas owned 14 feet all along the bayou.
The land owner, Mobil Oil, was pissed but there was nothing they could do.
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WP says "The primary factor that distinguishes wetlands from other land forms or water bodies is the characteristic vegetation of aquatic plants, adapted to the unique hydric soil."
If the subsoil remains damp, and the ground floods periodically, it may well fit the definition.
I've been through this.
You pay surveyors $150/hour to walk around your property and take core samples ~2 feet deep. If the core samples show any signs of calcified deposits, then that indicates anaerobic growth and therefore dampness. Thus wetlands, even if it's dry as a bone. And you're screwed.
It goes both ways (Score:2)
Re: It goes both ways (Score:2)
Obama said the puddle in your front yard is a protected waterway, Trump said thatâ(TM)s stupid.
The CBS link above in the summary details what was dropped from regulation as a waterway under the revised regulation.
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Mr. Wheeler called that expansion an overreach, saying it grew to cover dry land in some cases.
Ummm, if your land is "dry" then why do care what water regulations apply to it?
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Because the Government under Obama declared your dry land to be "wetlands" and thus unable for your use - all based on a few puddles or drainage ditches.
You can't farm it.
You can't put a building on it.
You can't even put solar panels on it.
And the Government under Obama did this to tens of thousands of people, without paying for the takings, or allowing appeal or challenging the classification.
Re: Not mentioned... (Score:2)
Exactly.
Re: Not mentioned... (Score:2)
If f it is dry it is not wetland so why are you still obsessing about this?
Because despite normally being dry, if the ground ever collected water, it becomes a waterway and subject to waterway regulations.
Are you deliberately trying to start an argument about nothing?
No, the argument that what the government considers a wetland is normally dry doesnâ(TM)t remove the oversight. To put solar panels on regulated non-waterways, the owner needs to appeal the erroneous designation - but there is no process for appealing the waterway designation... see the problem?
Re: Not mentioned... (Score:2)
It was also a blatant power grab since the western states have had water-rights rules since statehood, which those EPA rules stepped all over. Just ignore the nine and tenth Amendments and let a bunch of city dwellers from The Land of Always Wet tell you how to run your semi-arid landscape.
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With that said, I've no idea how good or bad this law really was. Especially since I don't even live in the USA. I was just triggered by the suggestive headline.
Re: Not mentioned... (Score:2)
Excellent point - Anything done by Obama is necessary, anything repealed by Trump is a crisis.
Https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clean-water-act-repeal-epa-announces-repeal-of-obama-era-clean-water-regulation-today/
Go to the CBS non-paywall link above, the regulations were rolled back to remove ditches that sometimes collect water after heavy rains as âoeprotected waterwaysâ
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...was the actual thing the Obama administration tried to do.
They tried to expand the definition of "navigable waters" to a bizarre degree. It used to mean, basically, "a lake or river that you could use for business or transportation."
The Obama people decided that "navigable" meant "any ditch you could drop a canoe in and have a chance of getting the bottom wet, even i it didn't connect to any other body of water."
They also decided that a "wetland" was "any stretch of ground that ever flooded, even though it was dry the other 99% of the time."
It was a bizarre regulatory overreach that did nothing at all for clean water - it just let them exert power that didn't exist in the statute.
"Waters of the United States".
I'm trying to build a residential driveway. It has to cross a ditch about 1 foot deep and 2 feet across.
It took me two years and $50,000 of environmental consultant fees to get a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers.
At one point, they had to survey the ditch for historical shipwrecks. Why? Because if you give a government agency the right to go to a mountaintop and look for shipwrecks in a ditch, that's exactly what they'll do. As slowly as possible.
As part of
Anyone still think he isn't evil? (Score:2)
Anyone still think he isn't evil or acting out of self interest. A property developer passes a law that screws the rights of all Americans just so that he can develop property easier and not have to worry about trashing the place for the rest of us.
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No, I think you just proved yourself an idiot.
Trump didn't "pass a law" - his Administration is reverting the rules (not the law) about what is a navigible waterway back to the final rules as issued in 1996 - under President Clinton. So you fail on "pass a law" and on trying to make this political (evil President) for simply stating the 20 year history of the rules - as established by President Clinton - were plenty good.
You come out looking like an idiot, and a partisan hack.
Comment removed (Score:3)
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I know what it looks like, but I actually support what Trump's doing in this case. People are forgetting that there's more than one way to ensure everyone has access to clean water, and by acting this way Trump is ensuring that other sources of clean, pure, water are supported, such as Nestle branded bottled water. As a Nestle shareholder, this directly benefits my bottom line.
How can anyone disagree with that?
You sound like somebody who would like to invest in my new line of exclusive watery drinks, It's called 'Fukushima Crystal' ... It comes in several different metallic flavors and If you drink enough of it you will start to glow in the dark and shit uranium bricks.
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Comment from the New York Times (Score:2)
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This removes the federal restriction on this and places the legal restriction on the states. States already have laws restricting the discharge of harmful substances. So all of a sudden you will not get people dumping harmful substances into streams with no legal recourse.
Old regs went too far (Score:2)
The federal government sued John Duarte for $2.8 million for plowing his field without a permit because he resided on seasonal wetlands. [usatoday.com]
In a 2016 case, 77 year old Navy veteran Joe Robertson was criminally prosecuted and served 18 months in prison [dailysignal.com] because he dug ponds around his Montana home in the hopes of keeping wildfires at bay. The ponds were connected to a foot-wide “river,” so the EPA determined that Robertson had been digging too close to “navigable water” without a permit.
Re:Old regs went too far (Score:5, Informative)
In a 2016 case, 77 year old Navy veteran Joe Robertson was criminally prosecuted and served 18 months in prison [dailysignal.com] because he dug ponds around his Montana home in the hopes of keeping wildfires at bay. The ponds were connected to a foot-wide “river,” so the EPA determined that Robertson had been digging too close to “navigable water” without a permit.
That just sounded too stupid to be true, and it wasn't. He didn't just "dig too close"
https://www.justice.gov/usao-m... [justice.gov]
The ponds resulted in the discharge of dredged and fill material into a tributary stream and adjacent wetlands and caused widespread damage to both properties.
The site was now approximately 1.2 acres in size, and extended beyond the National Forest property to a private property that he did not own.
So, he dug ponds on properties he didn't own and caused damage to other peoples properties. That is much more criminal than the version you tried to tell. The real story was re-framed and re-told to fit a certain political narrative. The right wing used to think 1984 was a precautionary tale. Now it is a source of inspiration.
For actions like this, I have only ... (Score:2)
... one question: Is it legal? If it is, I'm OK with it and Congress can always do something about it.
For me, that holds true for other executive orders and presidential pardons and the like.
That goes for state governor actions, as well.
As long as it's legal.
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... one question: Is it legal? If it is, I'm OK with it and Congress can always do something about it.
For me, that holds true for other executive orders and presidential pardons and the like.
That goes for state governor actions, as well.
As long as it's legal.
I'm not a big fan of Executive Orders... and not just the Trump kinds; whether it be Obama, Trump, or Bush, or anyone really. The Executive branch of the government was not set up with the intention of creating or interpreting laws, that was the realm of the legislative branch. Executive Orders have been used by far too many presidents as a loophole for Presidents to in essence pass legislation. The office was never intended to be that powerful, nor is it a good thing that one branch holds so much power.
What is the definition of "Navigable Waterway" (Score:2)
Major and minor waterways (Score:2)
So polluting minor waterways is less restricted/regulated than polluting major waterways?
How does water in "major waterways" get there? Does it come from "minor waterways? Or does it just magically appear in major waterways?
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I recommend that everyone read... (Score:2)
He mentions an incident which occurred where after a particularly heavy rain, a large "puddle" forms on a farmer's land.
This puddle was essentially declared a waterway (or something, I'm paraphrasing) and then the farmer was fined for not maintaining it (something along those lines anyway).
The fact is that too much of the current regulation is simply government over-reach, and deserves to be eliminated.
I'm not saying environmental regulation isn't
I disagree (Score:2)
Hansen's also a writer for the National Review, a right wing, pro-corporate, so I question his motives.
That s
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This is what job killing regulations look like (Score:2)
What frustrates me is that we literally have people saying we don't need these regulations because the thing the regulations were passed to stop isn't happening. I can't... I can't even... I mean... cause and effect...
Clean water (Score:2)
is socialism. Sick people are profit.
I've been filtering my water (Score:2)
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WHITE HOUSE TAPES (cont) (Score:2)
T: What's next on the agenda?
A: Clean water, Mr President.
T: Well, that sounds good, everybody likes clean water...
A: But Obama was for it, sir.
T: CANCEL THE PROGRAM IMMEDIATELY AND HAVE BARR PROSECUTE THE EPA.
These are the waterways removed from oversight (Score:2)
The EPA rule also lays out what are not "waters of the United States," including the following:
Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/c... [cbsnews.com]
(The non-paywalled link above.)
Now, please defend the need to regulate the above âoewaterwaysâ
Regulatory overreach (Score:2)
Relax. This change doesn’t mean that Giant Corporations (tm) can all go ahead and inject lead into your water supply. What has been rolled back in this case is the recent EPA declaration that the pesky seasonal rain puddle on your property counts as “waters of the United States” and thereby regulatable as though it were the Mississippi.
Re: Less regulation = better quality of life (Score:5, Funny)
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Re: Less regulation = better quality of life (Score:4, Informative)
The Flint MI problem didn't start until the GOP Governor took control of multiple Michigan cities away from the elected Mayors. The State made the change to the water source which caused the older corroded pipes to leak lead.
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Re:Less regulation = better quality of life (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Less regulation = better quality of life (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, so throw out the entire regulation rather than refine it. The pool issue also quite complicated even here in Arizona when you are not permitted to pump your pool into the street for all sorts of reasons. You are instead supposed to use your sewer clean-out to pump the water into the sewer where it all gets treated and re-used for irrigation lines and in some areas back into drinking water (Which tastes like crap but is better than no water since desert and all).
Frankly, a lot of laws can be interpreted in all sorts of ways, that's why most aren't enforced by machines instead of people. No reasonable person would fine a homeowner if their pool overflowed during a rain storm. If enforcement of the regulation is problematic then the answer isn't to throw the whole thing out. Our water table has been on the decline for decades now. Relaxing water quality rules is asinine. There is no reason we need to let businesses pollute any of our natural resources within reason. An Oil well for instance is going to have some impact, that impact is studied before the well is put in place and the community in which it dwells decides if its worth it. The problem here is that some communities only care about money and will poison themselves in the pursuit of it.
Re:Less regulation = better quality of life (Score:4, Insightful)
I would argue that the federal government has never made that claim unless you have an example I'm unaware of. Again, just because a pedantic eye could fault a regulation doesn't mean the regulation is bad. If enforcement of the regulation leads to your ridiculous example then by all means, amend the regulation, there is no need to throw it out completely. Law making much like computer security is a process. It requires constant refining to ensure the spirit of the law accomplishes what it set out to accomplish.
Growing up in VT I can tell you there were a lot of houses on the lake that would dump their sewage straight into the lake. I've found that to be the case for a lot of coastal locations as well. That is what this is designed to stop.
There are also a great number of houses built along rivers where this same thing happens. If you choose to build your house next to a body of water then you should probably expect that you can't use crazy fertilizers or pesticides.
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Funny thing about chemicals on farm land, they leach into the small ditches and streams, thence into the rivers, thence into the bays and estuaries, thence into the ocean, thence into the fish, thence into the fish in your store, thence onto your plate, thence into you.
Have a nice day.
Re: Field flooded for a week made it a wetland (Score:2)
Thank you for demonstrating your grasp of Fifth Grade Earth Science topics.
Regulating anything that ever gets wet because it might eventually lead to your drinking water supply is extreme in the opinion of most adults.
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I don't think any farmers were prevented from plowing or planting their fields. They may have been prevented from putting chemicals onto the land that would remain there until the field did flood and cause those chemicals to migrate.
If those farmers want to farm land that floods periodically then they need to learn to grow organically without chemicals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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