The Internet Archive Is Building a Canadian Copy To Protect Itself From Trump (theverge.com) 590
The Internet Archive, a digital library nonprofit that preserves billions of webpages for the historical record, is building a backup archive in Canada after the election of Donald Trump. The Verge adds: Today, it began collecting donations for the Internet Archive of Canada, intended to create a copy of the archive outside the United States. "On November 9th in America, we woke up to a new administration promising radical change," writes founder Brewster Kahle. "It was a firm reminder that institutions like ours, built for the long-term, need to design for change. For us, it means keeping our cultural materials safe, private and perpetually accessible. It means preparing for a web that may face greater restrictions. It means serving patrons in a world in which government surveillance is not going away; indeed it looks like it will increase."
Valid (Score:5, Interesting)
With Trumps position on libel laws, smart move to project against legal action.
Still need to project against the ever-in-the-news cyber vulnerabilities. In today's world, physical location only goes so far.
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not really more like sensationalized hogwash...
If they claimed to be doing it for redundancy sake, then sure completely legitimate reason. To claim its because of trump, now your just grabbing for headlines and/or extra money.
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From what I read, they're not trying to protect against trump, but just adding redundancy in general.
Trump's election was just a reminder of how vulnerable they might be to changes in political power.
Re: Valid (Score:5, Informative)
He's elected president. Not dictator. He doesn't have the power to "scrub the web." Asinine people sensationalizing paranoia.
Re: Valid (Score:5, Insightful)
He's elected president. Not dictator.
Someone needs to remind him during his discourses.
Re: Valid (Score:5, Informative)
Some people seem to have forgotten Eric Holder Shutting down Mega-upload and other websites. ;^)
Obama administration also gave away control to ICANN.
I'm sure nothing bad with happen
Re: Valid (Score:3)
FDR, Lincoln, Truman, and Jefferson would like to have a word with you.
Re: Valid (Score:4, Insightful)
Problem is Trump doesn't know the difference. He has ZERO clue what the job (Trumps first real life job by the way) of President entails, it's responsibilities or capabilities. There are millions of 5th graders in America who have more politician and global knowledge that this wind bag douche TV personality real estate swindler who has been handed EVERYTHING to him and has never had to work or KNOW anything in his entire life.
I just hope the Presidential advisors do a good job of running the country for the next 4 years because it sure as hell won't be Trump at the real helm. He'll only be at the helm for photo ops and to complain about the media and everyone bashing on his utter incompetence. Whining like a little 5 year old about everyone picking on him.
Re: Valid (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, even if Trump wasn't elected, this is still a very good idea. The Internet Archive is one of the most important sources of information ever created. I think we should put a copy of it on every continent at the very least.
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The Internet Archive is one of the most important sources of information ever created. I think we should put a copy of it on every continent at the very least.
Yes, but its policy of retroactively blocking archived webpages due to the feelings of the domain's current owner is outrageous. Fat lot of good multiple copies will do when the Archive's own policies hamstring it.
Re:Wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason Korematsu hasn't been overturned is that it hasn't come under judicial review. The actual conviction was overturned in 1983 because the government knowingly submitted false information. The Department of Justice issued a notice confirming that the solicitor general at the time was in error. If the ruling were to come under review, it's generally agreed that it would be overturned. Instead of explicitly overturning it, it just never gets cited as president.
Even if Korematsu vs. the United States was initially ruled unconstitutional, the president still would've had the power to set up the camps until that ruling (and the other before it) told him to knock it off. That's the concern.
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What, like with an eraser?
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The only thing you might be right about is the SCOTUS appointments. They are likely to be heavily conservative. Given the choice between far left judges that want to reinterpret the Constitution to mean what they want it to mean thus usurping the legislative branch and the far right who interpret the Constitution exactly as it's written I think I'll take far right. Sure I'd like some Judges like those Reagan appointed but it seems there are no more moderate appointments. We either get far left or far ri
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Every American I've ever spoken to has agreed that the supreme court is ruining the country with a history of terrible decisions. No two American's I've ever spoken to have been able to agree on which decisions were wrong.
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I spent some time in Europe. 3 years in Germany and almost 2 in Spain. I was amazed at how they lived over there. It was fun to visit and live there but I can't imagine things running that way here. The people in the US are far different. Europeans seemed more civilized. The difference in how they act on public transportation couldn't be more telling. I enjoyed it there but it always felt alien. I guess I am a barbarian at heart.
Re: Valid (Score:3)
Yet.
People are so focused on Trump himself that they seem not to realize just how dangerous the situation we are in really is. Trump is "just" president, sure. But he has a rubber-stamp congress. So the only brake on him now is the currently-crippled Supreme Court. And he's a single retirement or death away from having a rubber-stamp there as well; and ruling as a dictator in fact, if not in name.
Re:Valid (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm firm believer in backups, so Awesome!
But where were these concerns about "government surveillance" not going away when Pres. Obama was expanding them rather than ending them like he promised in his first campaign.
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Congratulations, you have elected a president who trolls citizens.
What could possibly go wrong?
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Yeah, I hear he's going to eat our babies, ban all birth-control, and put all Democrats into concentration camps too!!!!!!!
DID I MENTION THAT I'M TOTALLY RATIONAL, and in no way just a sore loser who is freaking out like a petulant child over losing an election?!?
Re:Valid (Score:5, Insightful)
You sound a lot like the winner. Who's ranted against free speech, and freedom of the press. And that's just this week.
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No point in trying to talk to them. They're all holed up in their safe spaces with their fingers in their ears right now.
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How does it feel vote for a fascist five years old ?
I'm not sure how it feels. I voted for the pot smoking heart attack victim. Good old 'Governor Veto'.
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Veto Corleone.
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isnt canada still technically ruled by the queen of england??, and didnt the UK just institute draconian surveillance laws???
my guess is this is nothing more than them using the outrage by people to get more funding at the expense of clickbait headlines
Queen of Canada (Score:5, Informative)
isnt canada still technically ruled by the queen of england??
No Canada is technically ruled by the Queen of Canada. The title is held by the same person but it is entirely separate and equal to her title as the Queen of England. The Canadian and UK Parliaments are equal but separate: no law passed by the UK parliament affects Canada and no law passed by the Canadian parliament affects the UK. But please don't let these facts get in the way of a good rant...
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isnt canada still technically ruled by the queen of england??
The Queen does not rule. She reigns.
Re: Valid (Score:3, Interesting)
Wrong. The Queen is Canada's head of state. And she rules with Divine Authority meaning God IS the ruler of Canada. It's right in the preamble of our Constitution. I took an oath to that withered old clam when I joined the Canadian Armed Forces. I didn't take one to the PM or Canada. Get your facts straight.
Well then... (Score:5, Insightful)
It means serving patrons in a world in which government surveillance is not going away; indeed it looks like it will increase.
Why didn't they start this years ago when Obama extended and expanded the Patriot Act? Sounds like more leftist hypocrisy and hyperbole to me.
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Did I miss something? I don't remember either candidate so much as suggesting that they would do anything about the rampant government surveillance.
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yep...just like all the libs that scream "I'm moving to $Canada-or-UE-Countrey if $Republican wins $Office"
They never follow thru...I love the Archive, but this just seems purely political and not based on real threats to speech or archival activities.
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Re:Well then... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I was wondering about that too. I would have thought Denmark or Norway would be a better choice. Neither is going to be very interested in censoring English language stuff. Iceland would be still better, but there would be connection issues.
Re:Well then... (Score:5, Interesting)
At least three backups, Iceland, Russia and China. Not that Russia and China are great, their data will likely have to be encrypted...but they are among the few that won't just take an American order and execute.
Each should have a provision for marking part of its dataset 'edited by court order' (in the foreign copies, so out of the crooked courts reach).
Canada's hate speech laws are awful, almost rival Muslim nations for 'worst practice'.
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And a big tarball on The Pirate Bay.
Re: Well then... (Score:3)
This is probably an even better idea than having it in the hands of one specific place. Mass replication is the best route.
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How about the Netherlands or Switzerland?
The Netherlands seems to have a pretty good handle on civil liberties. Switzerland seems to have a pretty good handle on individual privacy and has the bonus value of general global political neutrality.
I'd say it's a toss-up, with a nod to the Netherlands which probably has slightly better network connectivity due to geography although I'd bet Switzerland wouldn't be too far behind on that, either.
Re:Well then... (Score:4, Informative)
It is simply a marketing tactic. Canada is not exactly an ideal spot to locate such a backup in any case given their hate speech legislation and tactic of slapping very heavy fines on people who might have offended one of an infinite number of gender pronoun protected groups.
Actually, it's not hate speech legislation. It's inciting hatred legislation. Our hate speech laws target recruitment of other people to incite harm to a group.You can threaten to harm someone, and that's a law unto itself (assault), but no matter how disgusting it is, unless you're trying to get others to join you, it's not hate speech.
You are free to be as racist as you want, and to shout it to the world. One person did, and while hate charges were considered, they did not apply [ctvnews.ca]. He was just charged with simple assault.
Likewise, you can discriminate against gays but as long as you're not telling others to harm them, you're fine.
That's the two key elements to the law - first, you have to incite others to join you, and second, you have to be threatening to harm. Just saying "I hate (gays|Jews|Chinese)" isn't hate speech, and even saying "I hate (gays|Jews|Chinese) and think they should be killed" isn't hate. But saying "I hate (gays|Jews|Chinese), and we should form a group to kill all of them" is hate speech because you're inviting others to harm.
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Sadly its not hyperbole, this probably does need doing. The reason its happening now is because there are lots of lefty looser in tech, they made some token gripes about the surveillance stuff going on but mostly they were okay with it because 'their guy' was in charge.
Now that someone else is in charge, suddenly they are scared. Hopefully they will learn a hard lesson about big government, hint: your party is not always in power!
All and all though the threats to internet freedoms are real, and I don't se
Who Will Protect the Internet Archive Itself? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you have a domain name under which you have a lot of content -- an example is kuro5hin.org -- and, after a decade or so you find yourself impoverished and stressed to the point that you can't renew the domain registration (as did Rusty Foster), a domain squatter jumps on it and holds it hostage for thousands of dollars. When that happens, frequently even "The Wayback Machine" is told to deep-six the archived content by the simple expedient of placing a robots.txt file in the home directory of the hijacked domain. "The Wayback Machine" then dutifully removes public access to the content. OH but the fun doesn't stop there! So now let's say you fork over the ransom money to the domain squatter, get the domain name back and remove the robots.txt. Of course "The Wayback Machine" then restores public access to all those articles... right?
WRONG!
archive.org does keep it stored and it is accessible to those with insider status, but no more public access EVER.
There really is value in hoarding history and if you can get away with it by doing it "on accident" all the better!
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How much does insider status cost? I've run into that problem more than once.
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The trouble with a decentralized storage is finding the stuff. Search engines only help so much. And for this application you want to find the historical stuff, guarantee that it's not fake, and hide where it is coming from. Not an easy problem.
Is Canada Better? (Score:2, Interesting)
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The Charter of Rights is close to the strength of the 1st amendment.
The main difference is section 1 of the Charter which is "The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." The allows us do things like limit political donations.
We also have a hate speech law, but it is applied only in extraordinary cases and most prosecutions go allow the
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Good Idea but... (Score:2)
With a USB-3.0 3TB drive for less than $100?... (Score:2, Interesting)
I would think a more decentralized solution would be in line. Home servers, or for the oppressed low cost ISP tier masses, "peer to peer"..., or for the really oppressed, "sneakernet".
Having the internet archive in a single place, with any sort of centralized authority was a bad idea from the beginning. Centralized services are targets, end of story, game over.
Re:Good Idea but... (Score:4, Insightful)
How about Russia?
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All the anti-US stuff, put it on the Russian mirrors, and all the anti-Putin stuff, put it on US mirrors. What could possibly go wrong?
Actually, the whole story is funny - the internet archive making a copy of itself to put on another server. That's YUUUUUUUUUUGE!!!
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Canada and the UK have already been passing Orwellian internet surveillance and anti-free-speech laws on their own just fine without any influence from Trump. Moving the Internet Archive to Canada over concerns about possible libel laws and oppression is like responding to a fear of increased crime in your neighborhood by moving to Detroit.
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paranoia (Score:4, Insightful)
Really to protect from Trump? I'm not a supporter, but the paranoid reactions to his presidency are just insane. If that truly is the reason, it is just nuts.
Re:paranoia (Score:5, Insightful)
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Hillary never tweeted that flag burners should have their US citizenship revoked.
Hillary was bad in many ways. Trump is far worse in almost every single one of those ways, plus he has an extensive list of novel ways in which he is deplorable.
Stop with the false equivalencies.
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Nah, I don't think Trump is after me. Hillary, on the other hand, got so much bribes, eh, I mean campaign donations, from Hollywood, that I'm not so sure about her. The RIAA might be after me for down,loading a lot of movies.
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And please cite where he'd "revoke citizenship" of a protestor. Perhaps you mean an ISIS defector?
That's cute. (Score:2)
How do they know Trump wont try and annex Canada during the next four years?
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I don't think the Canadians would stand for such foolishness, given they've had opportunity to join the USA with special privileges for centuries and have so far declined... I'm guessing they will be building a wall to their south myself... A big wall with nice doors, and the USA will pay for it.... (grin)
Only now? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Only now? (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering that the orange idiot thinks that burning a U.S. flag merits prison time or loss of citizenship, I'd say it's a given that he has a low regard for constitutional rights.
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SJW-left has much bigger problem with freedom of speech than this.
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How much storage are we talking about anyway? A few thousand terabytes?
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~15PB
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Surprised they aren't doing this already (Score:5, Interesting)
Trump makes for a convenient excuse. But given that they're literally keeping snapshots of history, they should already be taking these steps just to safeguard the integrity of the data.
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I concur. The "because Trump" part is just plain silly projection.
But I was quite surprised to learn that they don't have a multi-continent presence. I would have assumed they had multiple copies located all around the globe. It is a pretty huge site with what I would assume is a large volume of traffic from around the globe.
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Time... (Score:2)
Is Canada immune ... (Score:2)
... from following the UK with its "new and improved" surveillance law?
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Canada too will have mas surveillance because lizard people decided so.
Backups are great! (Score:2)
Damn. We're going to run out of floppies.
I like it when a group knows what it's talking about.
They are not saying "we'll just put it in the cloud and it will be safe forever!"
Amazing over-reaction of the left, like 8 years ag (Score:5, Insightful)
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I've often said that Trump won't be as bad as the left says, if only because that isn't possible.
Re:Amazing over-reaction of the left, like 8 years (Score:5, Insightful)
The trouble with Trump is that between his complete lack of experience in government, and his continued declarations of clearly unconstitutional ideas, he's an unknown. Most people don't have a reason to be terrified of anything, this is true. However, it gives people an opportunity to take stock of things and do a little risk assessment.
In this case, I think it's a good move. Not because Trump will ruin the world, but becuase "Oh, hey, now that you mention it, all this really really important information in a single country is a pretty dumb move, because, laws and stuff can change."
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Any further specification is superfluous and agenda-driven.
What's Trump Got To Do With It? (Score:3, Informative)
Obama's the one that let the NSA capture all the communications in the US.
If history has shown us anything, it's that both the left and the right will attempt to expunge information from archives...but the left does it on a bigger scale. Look a the Cultural Revolution under Mao, or the various programs under Lenin and Stalin. Heck, just look how the left in the US is rewriting history.
Re:What's Trump Got To Do With It? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, but that's a part of the consistent pattern. The Democrats use a need of the people to create enhanced government power. (Never mind whether it's a real need of the people, it just needs to be sold as one.) Then the Republicans take power and use that increased power for elitist ends. Then the Democrats take power and use a need of the people to create enhanced government power.....
At no point in the cycle is the government power decreased, despite the rhetoric sometimes used by the Republicans.
How far is far left going to go? (Score:2)
Nothing to see here folks, other than unfounded paranoia.
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TFTFY
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Calling the paranoia unfounded is unjustifiable. It may not happen, as campaign promises often aren't kept. Unfortunately, it often happens that the campaign promises I most wish would be forgotten are the ones that are kept, and the ones I don't care about, or even approve of, are forgotten.
I'll move out of the country if Trump wins! (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't let the door in that big beautiful wall hit you on the way out with all that data..
Seriously? You are doing this because you are worried Trump might make you destroy your data or what? Where do folks get such foolishness into their heads.. I get the impression that, like the pending vote recounts going on what will accomplish nothing of importance (Trump will still be president come January), this is really just a scam to get attention, funding or both...
BTW, you really SHOULD have multiple copies o
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They should have multiple copies of their data, but that takes cash. That said, Canada seems an extremely silly location to pick for their only backup. It was probably picked because it was cheap to access.
One little problem (Score:5, Interesting)
America is the only place in the world where it is legally permitted to criticize anyone and everyone.
See, for example: The creepy tyranny of Canada's hate speech laws [salon.com]
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I believe that there are many places that let you criticize anyone you choose, provided you don't do it in the local language. Has Canada, e.g., ever censored ANYTHING written in Swahili?
Re:One little problem (Score:5, Informative)
The case of Canada (and Europe) (Score:3)
You are legally permitted in Canada to criticize anyone and everyone. You are just not allowed to do it in any way that incites hatred or promotes genocide.
According to Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] (emphasis is mine):
Under section 318 of the Criminal Code it is illegal to promote genocide. Under section 319, it is illegal to publicly incite hatred against people based on their colour, race, religion, ethnic origin, and sexual orientation, except where the statements made are true or are made in good faith
In addition to Canada, most European countries have similar laws, i have lived there and I don't think it limits one's abilities to express one's opinions if one has any respect for the historical truth so I would be interested to know where you think the problem is with this law.
Yeah? (Score:4, Informative)
I've decided to build a giant dome with battery powered artificial "sunlight" as I heard Trump is going to outlaw the sun. I've also added some support braces into my home's roof in case the sky does actually fall, and I've heard a credible rumor that he may in fact be a transgendered succubus.
Geez people get a grip. It's like half the population of the country is throwing a temper tantrum like a toddler who acts like the world is ending because they can't get the toy they want. Under a Trump presidency - some things will not go the way you want. That $15 minimum wage ain't happening and student loans for useless degrees aren't going to be forgiven. Overall though - things aren't going to change much.
Sit back, and relax. Maybe you'll like the way he handles the country, but probably not. Regardless, the country isn't going to fall apart.
Expensive (Score:4, Informative)
I'll ignore all the political aspects of this discussion and simply point out that this is a rather expensive proposition. I don't see a recent size estimate, but we know that the site increased from 10PB to 15PB between 2012 and 2014, so it's reasonable to estimate that it's around 23PB today.
How expensive is 23PB of storage, including the serves themselves? If we use BackBlaze's cost estimates (they build custom high-density chassis) of $0.036/GB, we get a figure of roughly $868k USD spread across 49x4U servers. Of course, that's just the hardware. The colocation space (including power and connectivity) would be at least $10,000 CAD per month.
Why Canada? (Score:5, Informative)
We do not have 1/4 the free speech laws as America. In fact right now we are looking at Bill C-16, which may class improper pronoun use as harassment. Making it entirely possibly that every time someone transitions, all archives of their past gender would need to be updated or erased. While I am not positive this one law is a serious threat to The Internet Archive operating in Canada, it shows how tenuous their situation would be if they operated in Canada.
This is as ridiculous as American citizens talking about moving to Canada. You already need id to vote here and we do not allow illegal immigrants to stay in the country. We are the exact thing all these people do not want America to become.
Still butt hurt (Score:3)
Re:Canada too close... (Score:5, Funny)
Not with the Libs in power (Score:3)
Now if it was the dearly departed Lord Steven Harper was in power I would be much more concerned about this happening. As someone who voted for the Cons in the past but didn't this past election I can't see them getting into power anytime soon, they went off the rails in their last term in office and during the last election. The "barbaric cultural practices" garbage they proposed will haunt them for a long time to come.
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He's the bogeyman you can threaten everyone with. Liberals piss their drawers at the mention of his name. Experienced journalists tear up when they hear his name. I don't think anyone was this frightened of HItler.