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Group Wants To Shut Down Tor For a Day On September 1 (softpedia.com) 229

An anonymous reader writes: An internal group at the Tor Project is calling for a full 24-hour shutdown of the Tor network to protest the way the Tor Project dealt with the Jake Applebaum sexual misconduct accusations, and because of recent rumors it might be letting former government agents in its ranks. Two Tor members, also node operators, have shut down their servers as well, because of the same reason. They explained their motivations here and here.
"The protesters have made 16 demands," according to the article, six related to related to supposed infiltration of Tor by government agents, and 10 regarding the Appelbaum ruling and investigation -- including "asking all Tor employees that participated in this investigation to leave" and "the persons behind the JacobAppelbaum.net and the @JakeMustDie and @VictimsOfJake Twitter accounts to come forward and their identities made public."
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Group Wants To Shut Down Tor For a Day On September 1

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    If a substantial part of the Tor network is shutdown, you can bet that any one of a number of parties are going to keep a careful eye on how things come back up.

    If there is a flaw in Tor, they might be able to de-anonymize users and nodes by watching them connect again for the first time.

  • Maybe only tangentially related, but if we rejected Hobbes then maybe Tor wouldn't be needed... as much?
    We live under a government created under principles that Hobbes came up with and while others views of man were too optimistic, Hobbes view of Man in nature reflected his poor home life growing up and he had no sense of how families actually work. I have said that I will be family for anyone who will be family for me, and that simply does not fit into Hobbes' philosophy. The Hamiltonians played dirty when
    • Hobbes had a radical hatred of violence. I feel that violence is a natural part of the human experience. The reservation of violence to the State interferes with the natural experience of violence by man. It should be tempered, but not removed entirely.

      Medicine interferes with the natural experience of dying from dysentry or infected papercuts. Clothes interfere with the natural experience of freezing, and food production with the natural experience of starving. Houses interfere with the natural experience

  • I can't decide (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @11:00PM (#52745755)

    "the persons behind the JacobAppelbaum.net and the @JakeMustDie and @VictimsOfJake Twitter accounts to come forward and their identities made public."

    Since we're talking about Tor, I can't decide whether these demands are ironic or are hypocritical.

    • by AK Marc ( 707885 )
      The ironic part is that the shutdown is about attacking those that pointed out the harasser. The protesters are supporting rape, and things like that. That's what I can't figure out. Who is organizing the protest, and why?
  • by Rob Riggs ( 6418 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @11:01PM (#52745763) Homepage Journal
    Seems to me like the govt has managed to destroy trust within the Tor community.
    • Re:PsyOp? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by arth1 ( 260657 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @11:22PM (#52745825) Homepage Journal

      Seems to me like the govt has managed to destroy trust within the Tor community.

      If so, they did a service. Trust is a bad thing for anonymity. A perfect system would be one where you don't have to trust anyone else.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Most people have no choice but to trust the system. They are not programmers or crytographers, they have to rely on others verifying the system is secure. Most people have jobs and lives so inevitably the majority of people looking closely at the system will be working for Tor.

        It's not ideal, but it's the way things are.

      • by Rob Riggs ( 6418 )
        You're comment is asinine. People have to have trust in the people they are working with. There is no community without trust. There is a difference between trusting technology and trusting people you work with.
        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          You're comment is asinine. People have to have trust in the people they are working with. There is no community without trust. There is a difference between trusting technology and trusting people you work with.

          There sure is a difference. You can inspect technology and find it to be safe. You can do no such thing with people, who inherently are untrustworthy.

          One of the main problems with humans and trust is that the people you trust will trust other people, who in turn trust other people, ad infinitum. In effect, you are only six steps away from Kevin Bacon, I mean John O. Brennan, and the trust you show humans extends all the way into CIA/NSA/SVR.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      First off, read the Tor stinks document. This outlines how the NSA and GCHQ intended to attack Tor:
      http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/tor-stinks-nsa-presentation-document

      Keep in mind this document was 2007, so all of that was already done a long time ago. In particular note they intended to add many more of their own nodes and shape the traffic to ensure they could force a routing.
      All the attacks, ONIONBREATH attack on hidden servers, increasing the Tor nodes they control (NEWTONCRADLE

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      That went with the US federal gov showing the ability to get ip's in open court. The cost of recovering any ip is now well within the budget of a court case.
  • By shutting it down? Is it that easy? Good way to build confidence!

    Has to be some kind of joke.

  • The first rebuttal (Score:4, Insightful)

    by destinyland ( 578448 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @11:07PM (#52745779)
    For what it's worth, here's the first response posted on the tor-talk mailing list [torproject.org] to the user who explained their motivations.

    Well, that is twaddle.

    Tor is for people who are censored using the internet.
    What twisted logic do you use to avoid feeling you're letting them down?

  • I can't be the only one who noticed this. They're supposedly concerned that government agents have actually infiltrated Tor -- and yet they only have six demands that are related to that.

    And yet there's ten demands about the Appelbaum investigation.

    It seems like government agents infiltrating Tor would be a bigger concern....
    • by bug1 ( 96678 )

      They're supposedly concerned that government agents have actually infiltrated Tor -- and yet they only have six demands that are related to that.

      And yet there's ten demands about the Appelbaum investigation.

      Perhaps the number of concerns about each issue dont reflect the severity of their concern for each issue.

      We would have to read the actual words to work it out i guess ... i like numbers too.

  • Fear, uncertainty and doubt sown.
    Principals divided.
    While focus and energy is diverted to the search for "truth", the real truth is that fewer people will trust their secrets to Tor as a result.
    Mission accomplished.

  • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @11:23PM (#52745827) Journal

    "The protesters have made 16 demands," according to the article, six related to related to supposed infiltration of Tor by government agents, and 10 regarding the Appelbaum ruling and investigation -- including "asking all Tor employees that participated in this investigation to leave" and "the persons behind the JacobAppelbaum.net and the @JakeMustDie and @VictimsOfJake Twitter accounts to come forward and their identities made public."

    It sounds like these protesters need to figure out what it is they're protesting. And their demanding that an online accounts should have their "identities made public" sounds a little bit incongruous with Tor's own mission.

    Shutting down Tor to protest an attack on Tor sounds like they really haven't thought this thing through, regardless of their agenda. It's not like a one-day boycott of Tor is going to cost Tor money or anything, so it's not really putting any pressure on the elements within the project that they want to force out. Plus, as other people have pointed out, it hurts Tor users more than it hurts the people they want to hurt.

    Finally, the dumbness of their manifesto calls into question the validity of their claims. We don't have to worry about the government trying to destroy Tor as long as they're doing such a bang-up job all on their own.

  • Why?
    I meant it. they're cutting off their hand because someone else bound the other.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    The accusations against Jacob are filled with half truths and lies.
    He may be a womaniser but calling him a rapist is insane.
    I don't know if they're government agents, but people like Isis are definitely trying to take over the Tor project and push out everybody who won't submit to them

  • Shut down TOR? Wait, what does any of this have to do with illegal drugs, murder for hire, trolling forums and IRC, or child pornography?

  • Stop the Bullshit (Score:4, Interesting)

    by allo ( 1728082 ) on Monday August 22, 2016 @01:59AM (#52746141)

    Stop the Bullshit.

    We need tor. Tor needs developers. Tor needs developers, which work together.
    The best case for any agency is when the developers distrust each other and work against each other.
    Whatever Appelbaum did or did not do, it's not in our interest, that this stops the work for tor.

    Read this: https://cryptome.org/2012/07/g... [cryptome.org]
    Really read this. This list contains some of the things you're seeing here. How to disturb groups and prevent them from working efficicently, how to get them to fight each other instead of fighting their enemy.

    Keep your personal conflicts personal and continue to work against the threats we're facing.

    • by allo ( 1728082 )

      Best resolution of the Appelbaum case?
      Let a court decide.

      If the victims don't go to court, they decide themself not to do so and should not accuse him publicly for something they do not want to have in court.
      If they go to court, we will get a fair trial with some result. Possibly that appelbaum is a rapist. The court will find out. But afterwards we have a decision we can trust on and shut up with rumors from the one or the other side.

  • Also, all power plants that can be suspected to supply power to computers running TOR, should be shut down.
    Just until we can find out what the hell is going on, and not a day longer.

    Also, all public transportation that can suspected to be used by people using computers running TOR, should be shut down.
    Just until we can find out what the hell is going on, and not a day longer.

    Also, all breathing air that can suspected to be used by people using computers running TOR, should be pumped out.
    Just until we can

  • by Britz ( 170620 ) on Monday August 22, 2016 @02:22AM (#52746203)

    I followed the story and read the accounts of the accusers back when the news broke. The modus operandi (sending acolytes to pressure someone) is exactly what Applebaum did.

    The major point of the accusers wasn't that Applebaum raped someone. The major thing was that he was being such a giant asshole to some (many) individuals, bullying and pressuring them, that it crossed into abuse. And he mostly did that in front of witnesses. So people knew. All the website did was assemble a list and also show that those that were abused suffered a lot as a result.

    It mainly served to wake up the people that witnessed a lot of the abuse (those working with him in Berlin) and force them into action.

    If you knew anything about abuse, then you know very well that there is a huge grey area inside relationships (both as friends, partners and families) that do not fit neatly into the criminal law, but that could still greatly hurt the victims of such abuse.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Being a social asshole, no matter how severe, does NOT give you the right to retaliate with FALSE RAPE CHARGES.

      • by Britz ( 170620 )

        Applebaum was not let go over false rape charges, but over a long history of abuse of multiple people. Rape may or may have been part of his conduct.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          He was sacked after Emerson Tan made a rape attempt allegation claiming Jacob had attempted to rape Jill. Jill denies the claim, it was mutual she says. Says Emerson was mistaken.

          "Rape may or may have been part of his conduct."
          And you change Emersons false claim of *attempted* rape into a false claim of *actual* rape.

          You're very obvious about it.

    • I have been rather disturbed to see how many people are still defending that creep; but I'm not altogether surprised, having had my own experience with someone like Appelbaum. A lot of people don't understand until they have been on the receiving end of such intricate and well-stragegized abuse. Reading some of the victims' stories was so reminiscent of a particular brand of sociopathic creepiness that I wanted to vomit. Guys like Appelbaum are absolute masters of pushing the envelope right to the razor-
  • Appelbaum sounds like an epic asshole, the 'victims' like naive retards and if this wasn't orchestrated by the feds.. Melrose Place drama.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    It can be agreed that Jacob Appelbaum has poor etiquette but it is highly doubtful he is a rapist. I have read the statements from the women. This does not seem to be sexual assault, rather confused women who entered dubious situations at worst. They got very close to him, entered a bed with him, got into a bathroom with him, got drunk at an orgy with him. Pretty dubious stuff. Of course the women can also express a firm "no" at any time and leave. Was he coercive, guilty of poor comments, and taking initia

  • by gavron ( 1300111 ) on Monday August 22, 2016 @04:05AM (#52746447)

    Yes, if you run a tor node and you don't want to keep it up, take it down. You should be removed from the tor network.

    The same goes for root DNS server or TLD server operators. If you don't want to keep it up, take it down. It will be removed from the network.

    Being a part of something doesn't mean you provide a service and if you're unable or unwilling to do so reliably then you'll be removed. If you thought this was your method of expressing your political thoughts you were wrong.

    Jacob Applebaum may have done bad things, but he certainly didn't take down the tor network for a day. These self-absorbed aholes are much much worse than anything he did because they want to impact millions of people in thousands of countries so they can have their sick moment of SJW fantasy.

    Sorry. If you can't run a server without wanting to keep it up, you should be removed from the network.

    The Internet views censorship as damage and routes around it -- famous saying which applies ever more to this.

    E

  • by dnaumov ( 453672 ) on Monday August 22, 2016 @06:10AM (#52746753)

    is that the TOR network is so badly designed it apparently can be switched off entirely by a central authority.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      It can't, this is just a call for people to voluntarily refrain from using it, turn off their nodes etc. There is no off switch.

[Crash programs] fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month. -- Wernher von Braun

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