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Entire Federal Government Exempt From Robocall Laws, FCC Rules (thehill.com) 188

An anonymous reader writes from a report via The Hill: Late Tuesday night, the Federal Communications Commission ruled that the entire federal government is exempt from consumer protection laws that limit unwanted robocalls. They ruled that the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 doesn't apply to the federal government, while the law does bar businesses from making numerous autodialed or prerecorded calls to a person's cellphone. The FCC did also make contractors working on behalf of the government exempt from the law as well. Earlier this year, a Supreme Court case found that the law does not apply to the government because of sovereign immunity. However, the FCC ruled that the government falls outside the law's definition of a "person." "Indeed, had Congress wanted to subject the federal government to the TCPA, it easily could have done so by defining 'person' to include the federal government," according to the ruling. Therefore, contractors hired by members of Congress can robocall individuals to participate in town halls, government researchers can place autodialed calls to the cellphones of survey respondents, and contractors can make similar calls to offer information about social security. The ruling does not apply to lawmakers who are using the calls for political campaigns.
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Entire Federal Government Exempt From Robocall Laws, FCC Rules

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  • It is exempt from everything. Who cares? The voters don't. So why should I dwell on it?

    • by harvey the nerd ( 582806 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @08:43PM (#52460305)
      Punitive laws and distraints primarily apply to Little People, as so recently demonstrated, again.
      • "Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - unknown origin

        (Not Thomas Jefferson, as often attributed)

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @08:36PM (#52460259)

    Basic espionage laws along with destruction of evidence and lying to the FBI (which is what Martha Stewart was jailed for)

    Why should government be bound by any laws us little people have to follow?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Because the government HAS to be able to contact it's citizens... they aren't retailors or a political party. It's obvious the robocall law was not made to apply to the government and it should not because it would harm the nation.

      Citizens and govenrment are really the same thing in a democracy, but mandatory public services really need to be able to send out automated messaged.

      Are you really saying Amber Alerts should be illegal because that's where you would be going with saying the government should not

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by roman_mir ( 125474 )

        WTF are you talking about? Government absolutely spams people. Government is a bunch of politicians, each one with their own agenda, each one trying to make some money/name for himself. This has nothing to do with any so called 'public good' (there is no such thing anyway). These robocalls are illegal and now the government says: fuck you all, we are above the law. We will call you, promote our agenda, ask for money, threaten you into compliance, into voting a particular way, etc.etc.etc.

        Tyranny of a co

        • by SirSlud ( 67381 )

          I was unaware that most tyrants didn't surround themselves with what amounts to a hydra.

        • by EmeraldBot ( 3513925 ) on Thursday July 07, 2016 @01:57AM (#52461343)

          WTF are you talking about? Government absolutely spams people. Government is a bunch of politicians, each one with their own agenda, each one trying to make some money/name for himself. This has nothing to do with any so called 'public good' (there is no such thing anyway). These robocalls are illegal and now the government says: fuck you all, we are above the law. We will call you, promote our agenda, ask for money, threaten you into compliance, into voting a particular way, etc.etc.etc.

          Tyranny of a collectivist government is worse than tyranny of a singular tyrant. A tyrant can be taken down, even killed. How do you kill the hydra that is a collectivist government?

          Seriously? You don't like the government's policies, so your first reaction is to kill the leader? For the love of god, you're a shining example of the extremism that's become fashionable nowadays. This isn't Iran, if you have a problem you protest peacefully or become active in politics yourself, you don't fucking assassinate people.

          Second off, I think the AC parent is the only one I've read so far who's RTFA. If you actually did, it still bans politicians, which will prevent the at times harassing political bombardments, but the government itself is of course going to need to call people. Businesses are exempt when they do business - but what does the government do? It's sure as hell not supposed to be business. Without the mass calling exemption, they wouldn't be able to distribute natural disaster alerts, the Amber Alert system would be questionable, and I think we can all agree saying no to a researcher the one time in your life you're called isn't too hard compared to the benefits scientific studies bring us all. I'm as frustrated with our government as anyone is right now, but geez people, think before saying something.

        • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

          again you prove your ignorance.

          There are many legitimate government functions where they may want to call you, and the robocall law was clearly/ not aimed at blocking things like the IRS calling because you owe taxes, or FBI calling because they want to speak to you.

          Such things are hardly tyranny, though twits like you apparently think the governments mere existence is tyranny.

        • Government is a bunch of politicians, each one with their own agenda, each one trying to make some money/name for himself.[...]Tyranny of a collectivist government is worse than tyranny of a singular tyrant.

          So which one is it? Is the government a bunch of individuals or a collective?

          A tyrant can be taken down, even killed. How do you kill the hydra that is a collectivist government?

          The fact that you can keep posting your rants about tyranny strongly implies you don't actually live under one.

          But to answer

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Congress Often exempts them selves from Laws.
    Insider trading, sexual harassment.
    Law that cover them tend to be weakened.

  • I get BS robocalls all the time and the IRS is gonna sue me. Fly-by-night robocall companies thumb their nose at the law and operate almost as if it didn't exist.
    • Either you're unlucky or you have a poor memory. The number of calls I get is dramatically lower since the do not call list.

    • The scam calls were already illegal. So of course they don't care about robocall laws.

      However, having a mobile phone only means I don't recall the last time I received one of those.

      Perhaps someone got your financial details and is directing scams at you? Not sure how to deal with that level of identity theft.

  • ...to make a worthless law even more worthless.

    Thank goodness my call blocker can block this crap! I like mine so much that I bought one as a gift for my parents.
  • More fun times ahead (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Archfeld ( 6757 ) <treboreel@live.com> on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @08:57PM (#52460383) Journal

    The best method to discourage sales or political calls is to engage them in useless time consuming discussion about imaginary family or to request a moment to get a pen, and put the phone down for minutes then return with a pen, that mysteriously won't write, ramble on like a dementia afflicted individual. It takes a bit of time but can be quite amusing and I've found it to be very effective. Often informing the other side that you are recording the conversation for future entertainment purposes will discourage them as well.

    • Now is the time when we need to demand more citizen/voter accountability for the FCC from our elected representatives... a government agency declaring that the government is above the law for something as non-critical to government function as RoboCalling? It's time for some unreasonable response...

      • by Archfeld ( 6757 )

        Any suggestions ?

        • Force the issue in Congress, set up RoboCalling centers overseas in non-extradition countries and blast anyone with any kind of connection to lawmakers with a sustained "campaign message" that RoboCalling should be banned. Hit their personal cell phones, hit their e-mail accounts, spoof addresses to appear like they're coming from their home district. You know, all the things that RoboCallers do already.

    • good luck engaging a recorded message in a useless time consuming discussion.
      • Got a point there, but I rarely get a true robo call except for political ads, they are usually a robo dialer connecting for a human after you answer.

    • Indeed, informing the other side that the call is recorded and will go straight to my YouTube channel usually shortens the call duration and reduces the number of repeat offenses considerably.

    • Obligatory Lenny reference:
      http://www.independent.co.uk/l... [independent.co.uk]

      We should really be using machine learning to create the ultimate anti telemarketeer chatbot. On the other hand, if there is one set of interactions that would drive AI to want to destroy humanity, it is this one.

    • The best method to discourage sales or political calls is to engage them in useless time consuming discussion

      So they push the button that says they weren't able to contact you and your number goes back into the pool to be called again (sometimes within five minutes or less), and they hang up. You've wasted your time answering the call and trying to talk to them. The predictive dialer has handed them another victim to talk to before you have time to hang up the phone.

      Congrats, they won that round.

  • With the Internet, Email, SMS .... why do you even need robocalls these days with so many areas to access information?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      With the Internet, Email, SMS .... why do you even need robocalls these days with so many areas to access information?

      Because ninety-five percent of people doing robocalls are crooks, scumbags, and scammers. And most older, retired people (their chosen mark) still use telephones as a primary means of communication.

      • The main robocall we get is from our county school district, but that's because we let them.

        The other 60% of robocalls are annoying as f___ sales idiots who couldn't manage to close a sale even if we were interested in their offering. Any endeavor that annoys 10,000 people for every one that might be interested needs to stop. Of course, that would attack television advertising at its core, so I suppose that's a losing battle.

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        most older, retired people (their chosen mark) still use telephones

        Still use landlines.... why do they target unlisted cell phone numbers?

        • why do they target unlisted cell phone numbers?

          For the same reason they target random email addresses. The cost is essentially zero and any rate of success is a win for them.

      • Because ninety-five percent of people doing robocalls are crooks, scumbags, and scammers.

        But this article is about robocalls made by the government-- Oh, I see your point.

    • Because cat videos and 9gag don't inform you about a hurricane coming your way. Just because people COULD get relevant information doesn't mean they DO.

  • by fustakrakich ( 1673220 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @09:18PM (#52460461) Journal

    We are simply on our own.

    If you can, get a caller ID machine that allows you to create a white list of numbers that can get through and send all others straight to the answering machine which you can later blacklist from getting in at all. Works for email, I whitelist my inbox in order to take care of old business before wrestling with new business going into the spam box.

  • Hello. (Score:3, Informative)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @09:36PM (#52460541)

    This is Lenny.

  • by quenda ( 644621 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @09:48PM (#52460597)

    Is this a peculiarly American problem? I don't think I've ever had a robo-call in my life in Australia, unless you count the ones that connect you to a call-centre operator a second or two after you answer. SMS spam, yes. Plenty of charities begging, some sales calls that got past the "do not call" register, and the occasional overseas scam call. But always human, never a recording.

        Do any counties other than the US - oh, and presumably Canada, have this problem?

    • I don't think I've ever had a robo-call in my life in Australia, unless you count the ones that connect you to a call-centre operator a second or two after you answer.

      Why wouldn't you count those? Those certainly are robocalls. Predictive dialers make the call and then pass you off to the first available human scam artist.

      If you're thinking only of the "call and play a recorded message" abuses as "robocalls", then you ought to know that predictive dialers/human scum are even worse than recorded messages. Getting calls that immediately hang up on you because there wasn't a human ready to patch in is worse than the stock recorded message.

  • by TheGratefulNet ( 143330 ) on Wednesday July 06, 2016 @10:18PM (#52460703)

    with sim cards being easy to buy, its not hard to change your number often.

    I've gotton on some prank lists where I was getting nuissance calls.

    I dropped that number. buh-BYE. end of story.

    phone is not even the main channel of comms anymore. 20 yrs ago it was. today, everyone has a more perm email and phone numbers can, and do, change. I'm and older guy and even I am ok with throwing away phone numbers and restarting, should I get on a 'annoy this guy by calling and not taking no' list.

    we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru. when I had a landline, I used modem callerid and a unix daemon. now, most people just have cell phone #'s and the app I use is 'mrnumber' (yeah, lol). it lets me put a select switch between calls and me.

    this is what it comes to. like online ads, its a war and we users are left to fend for ourselves. at least we now have good tools to defend ourselves from.

    the part about the gov granting itself more rights, yeah, well, that's fully expected given the trajectory the US (and ROW) is headed. sad but its not unexpected. and since we have no control over our gov's (no one, anywhere in the world, does) we are stuck with what they all grew into. this crap where the system rewards itself and cares nothing about the people, themselves.

    • "its not hard to change your number often"
      Unless there are people that you *do* want to receive calls from.

      "we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru"
      But if everyone *else* is changing their numbers frequently, how do you know what numbers to whitelist?

      • by mysidia ( 191772 )

        "we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru"

        What happens when the robocallers realize that we are whitelisting, and start using 'confirmed lists of valid phone numbers to call', then start a brute-force attack with caller IDs working on making 10 billion calls to each phone number: if we don't answer (Each time spoofing a different incremental Caller ID, in the hopes that they figure out one of the whitelisted CIDs and then suddenly get through) ?

    • with sim cards being easy to buy, its not hard to change your number often.

      I've gotton on some prank lists where I was getting nuissance calls.

      I dropped that number. buh-BYE. end of story.

      I'm assuming that you don't live in the USA and that you don't work in IT. Both apply to me. This is not as easy to do as you claim for a lot of us. First of all, while you can buy SIM cards in the USA, it's difficult. US mobile telephone service isn't really setup to work this way. Everybody expects you to sign a contract with a carrier for a certain number of years. Just walking down to some local electronics store and buying a SIM card off the shelf is not at all how things work in the USA. You ha

      • I'm assuming that you don't live in the USA and that you don't work in IT. Both apply to me. This is not as easy to do as you claim for a lot of us. First of all, while you can buy SIM cards in the USA, it's difficult. US mobile telephone service isn't really setup to work this way. Everybody expects you to sign a contract with a carrier for a certain number of years. Just walking down to some local electronics store and buying a SIM card off the shelf is not at all how things work in the USA. You have to go to carriers to get SIM cards here and those aren't really setup to be pay as you. You can do that sort of thing if you're willing to use crap disposable phones like with Tracfone, but not so much if you actually have a good phone.

        I'm assuming that you don't live in the USA either, because your facts are way out of date. I just ordered a couple of new SIMs off of Amazon yesterday to swap out on phones.
        Here are a couple of examples.

  • I can't wait until my phone has a captcha. "To make this phone ring, please type in the answer to this question: Which Star Trek movie is the best?"

  • So private prisons are exempt too? After all, they are government contractors.

    Because it's pretty popular to use prisoners for outbound telesales calls...

  • by redelm ( 54142 ) on Thursday July 07, 2016 @07:43AM (#52462313) Homepage

    While entrenched in British Common Law, the very notion of "soverreign immunity" is completely contradictory with the founding principles of the United States. The idea was whatever powers (sovereigns) were subject to limitations.

    To now claim "sovereign immunity" is merely a complete about-face, and very likely corrupt.

  • Does this mean we can do robocalls TO members of the government? They are exempt.

    Of course not. Laws apply to plebs, not to the ruling elite.

  • It was already common sense. Nice to see we have a court ruling as proof.
  • Such as: political campaigns, charities, market research organizations,

    .
    While it is always an easy target to go after the Federal government, I have had zero, absolutely zero, robo-calls from the Federal government in the past 5 years. Zero.

    Yet, I have had countless political calls (calls from/about Trump seem to be horribly numerous this past month). I have had numerous calls from charities and also market research organizations. But not one from the Federal government.

    So I have to wonder why is t

  • Do people actually still answer unknown phone numbers?

    Hell, I have my phone set to not even ring for anyone not in my contacts list. Everyone else can leave a message, and I'll add them as a contact if I actually want to speak with them in the future.
  • I guess I should start taking those "this is the IRS calling about case # 123556" threatening legal action. I'll pay my past due taxes immediately as requested via bitcoin and make sure "the situation totally unfolds" in a good way.

  • FTFY

    Whether it is ATF agents smuggling weapons to Mexican drug cartels, OTS employees helping banks back-date deposits to cover up insolvency, James Clapper lying before Congress, Lois Lerner destroying evidence pursuant to a Congressional investigation, etc. government employees operate beyond the rule of law.

"Look! There! Evil!.. pure and simple, total evil from the Eighth Dimension!" -- Buckaroo Banzai

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