Canada Waives Own Rules, Helps Microsoft Avoid US Visa Problems 122
Freshly Exhumed writes Citizenship and Immigration Canada has granted an unprecedented exemption to Microsoft that will allow the company to bring in an unspecified number of temporary foreign workers as trainees without first looking for Canadians to fill the jobs. No other company in any other field has been granted such an exemption, and it does not fall within any of the other categories where exemptions are normally given, according to a source familiar with process, effectively creating a new category: the Microsoft Exemption. Microsoft Canada did not immediately respond to questions about the deal, but in an interview earlier this year with Bloomberg Businessweek, Karen Jones, Microsoft's deputy general counsel, said the deal will allow Microsoft to bypass stricter U.S. rules on visas for foreign workers. The entire issue of temporary foreign workers has been as blisteringly hot a topic across Canada as it has been in the USA.
Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:5, Interesting)
We do not have a shortage of CS workers in this country, we have a surplus, and with some provinces having over 10% unemployment rates Harper is seemingly doing everything he can to keep Canadians out of Canadian jobs.
Fucking neocons.
does that mean American workers? (Score:3)
do American workers now displaced from places overseas get waved across the border to work in Canada, then, eh?
Re:does that mean American workers? (Score:5, Insightful)
It sounds more like a way to get more overseas workers into the US.
"The source said that means the company will take advantage of rules governing intra-company transfers, which require employees to work for at least one year at a company subsidiary before being transferred to the U.S."
Sounds like they'll import cheap labor to Canada. Have them work there for a year and then import them into the US.
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Exactly. The two talking heads on the TV news both said it was about getting more foreign workers into the US.
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More likely Microsoft said something like: "Either we cut 1000 positions in Canada or you allow us to bring temps. Your choice."
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:5, Informative)
And the rich get richer and the poor get poorer [nytimes.com] -- America where the Walton family (majority shareholders in Walmart) has wealth equal to the wealth of the bottom 42% of Americans combined. [politifact.com]
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:4, Insightful)
When people get their panties in a twist about how much "wealth" the Walton family has it just shows they don't understand what wealth is.
Their "wealth" is paper. They could be worth X millions one day and X - a butt load of money the next. It has no impact on how much they can spend at lunch or whether they get the premium cable package or the standard. It's not cash. They'd have to sell or take out loans against their shares if they wanted to go buy a Private Jet or something like that.
So the fact they are worth a few billion in paper doesn't diminish your pay check at all.
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But they have more money than us and clearly we work harder because our jobs are dirty manual labor or services that will be replaced by robots within the next 50 years. How will support ourselves when we have nothing of use to offer to the world?
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It has no impact on how much they can spend at lunch or whether they get the premium cable package or the standard.
Right, I'm sure they have to budget their lunches very carefully. I'm sure they have to make decisions about which days they have to bring lunch from home and how many days they can afford to eat out. I'm sure it's also a huge decision about whether to splurge for the premium cable package, or save money and get standard cable so they can afford a few more days of eating off the dollar menu.
They'd have to sell or take out loans against their shares if they wanted to go buy a Private Jet or something like that.
Oh. My. God. You mean they can't just order another private jet online, they actually have to fill out some paper
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No, they couldn't find the entire wealth of their employees in their couch cushions. It is impossible to find a negative amount of money. Their employees total wealth is a very large debt which most of them will never be able to pay off.
What's even more irritating is that the richest and largest company in the world staffs itself through subsidies that come out of your pocket and mine. Most of the people working there are barely scraping by, and when the hours get cut after Christmas, they go file for welfare and unemployment benefits to supplement their meager income. People can afford to work there because we make up for their pathetic salary through taxes. This seriously pisses me off.
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Well, it does actually impact things like what they pay for lunch, since, oddly, the more money a person has "on paper," the less they're expected to actually pay for.
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When people get their panties in a twist about how much "wealth" the Walton family has it just shows they don't understand what wealth is.
Their "wealth" is paper. They could be worth X millions one day and X - a butt load of money the next. It has no impact on how much they can spend at lunch or whether they get the premium cable package or the standard. It's not cash.
On the contrary, it is very definitely cash. Walmart Corporation pays dividends [walmart.com] to the tune of $0.48 per share every quarter for the past four quarters. Walmart has raised their dividend every year for the past 41 years. That amounts to $3.1 billion in cash paid to the Waltons this year. The Walton family still controls a simple majority of the company, owning more than 50% of the 3.223 billion shares outstanding.
That's cash money. No loan, no promissory note, no sale of shares. Of course the Waltons
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http://www.businessinsider.com... [businessinsider.com]
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When people get their panties in a twist about how much "wealth" the Walton family has it just shows they don't understand what wealth is.
Their "wealth" is paper. They could be worth X millions one day and X - a butt load of money the next. It has no impact on how much they can spend at lunch or whether they get the premium cable package or the standard. It's not cash. They'd have to sell or take out loans against their shares if they wanted to go buy a Private Jet or something like that.
So the fact they are worth a few billion in paper doesn't diminish your pay check at all.
Cash is also 'paper' and wealth doesn't need to be cash anyway.
That being said, they probably also have more cash on hand than the lower half of Americans combined as well.
Re: Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:1)
23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/aug/29/ha-joon-chang-23-things
Ferdinand Pecora
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-man-who-busted-the-banksters-932416/
The Hellhound of Wallstreet (Ferdinand Pecora)
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.amazon.com/The-Hellhound-Wall-Street-Investigation/dp/B004LQ0EDM&sa=U&ei=gPuMVP2KGcSyogSY1YCACA&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEiPCKQVF56wqnQzu8Lnm4D8XkctA
Labor is labor. Capital seeks the lowest cost. Borders
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That's because the bottom 42% doesn't save. If you don't save, you have no wealth by definition.
I know this may come as a shock to you, but it's very likely the bottom 42% can't save in order to build wealth.
And quite often it comes down to simple math and nothing else.
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To be fair, a great many of that 42% have little opportunity to save based on the value of the work they're doing. When you're making $18k a year, even if you have no kids, it's nearly impossible to save anything. Now I know what you're going to say - get a better job - but ultimately, someone has to clean the toilets at your office building and that someone isn't going to make more than $18k because that work just isn't that valuable. Increasing everyone's pay is also not a solution as that merely increas
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It's always boggled my mind how a person can say that toilet-scrubbers don't deserve decent pay because they aren't necessarily 'valuable,' in the very next breath after saying "someone HAS to scrub the toilets."
I know that's not what you were getting at, just making an observation.
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It's always boggled my mind how a person can say that toilet-scrubbers don't deserve decent pay because they aren't necessarily 'valuable,' in the very next breath after saying "someone HAS to scrub the toilets."
I know that's not what you were getting at, just making an observation.
We can build a spaceship and load it up with all of the telephone sanitizes and marketing consultants and such then ship them off to another planet. What could possibly go wrong?
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It's simple to make a temporary sacrifice, when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel and your probably coming off a pretty nice existence.
It's not so simple to make a sacrifice that leave's you treading water, in the same miserable existence. Human nature makes it seem better to enjoy yourself while you can.
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Now I know what you're going to say
No you don't. But in passing we can mention that even janitors make more than $18k.
When you're making $18k a year, even if you have no kids, it's nearly impossible to save anything.
No it's not, you have horrible personal finances.
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But in passing we can mention that even janitors make more than $18k.
Depends on where you live.
When you're making $18k a year, even if you have no kids, it's nearly impossible to save anything.
No it's not, you have horrible personal finances.
Depends on where you live.
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> someone isn't going to make more than $18k because that work just isn't that valuable
In some places, the minimum wage is US$15.00 per hour.
For a full time job, that means an annual income of US$30,000.
>Perhaps part of every welfare program should include some money and financial management counseling.
If your gross monthly income is US$1,500:
* Tax: US$180;
* FICA: US$180;
For a take home check of US$1,140:
* Prudence dictates that one spend no more than 25% of one's gross income on shelter, including ut
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We do not have a shortage of CS workers in this country
What's a "CS worker"? Is that like help desk? IT support is not a career with much of a future, unless you're a packethead or have some other backend specialty.
But if you meant "software developer", skilled devs are deeply in demand in the US in Silly Valley, and closer in Seattle - come on down, the weather's nice^W sucks less. Heck, I know my company's been hiring aggressively in Canada as well.
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You need to define what "skilled" means to you because there seems to be a mismatch between what skilled means to people looking for work and what skilled means to people looking for workers, ahem, by workers I mean passionate people looking for opportunities they're passionate about, such as web button design.
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You need to define what "skilled" means
Well, what really matters is able to perform well in the job interview. But in theory that's coding skill, design skills, and leadership skills. And not locking up due to nerves during the interview, but it's an imperfect world. With the growth of cloud, it back-end and infrastructure specialties that seem most in demand (as long as you think at scale).
there seems to be a mismatch between what skilled means to people looking for work and what skilled means to people looking for workers, ahem, by workers I mean passionate people looking for opportunities they're passionate about, such as web button design.
Indeed, you hit the nail right on the ... button.
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From the job descriptions available now, a software developer, software engineer or senior software engineer will consult with clients and other engineers, write design specifications, write, design and implement unit tests using Microsoft or Google Test frameworks, do task breakdowns, provide accurate time estimates, implement software modules, provide code reviews, keep bug lists up to date, mentor software engineers through techniques such as pair or extreme programming, participate in Agile and Scrum me
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By the way, American companies tend to hire quite a bit in Canada and plenty of people go, but eh, there's an implicit (and now explicit) tension in American society (racism, class-ism, not to mention gun violence, lack of healthcare, etc.) that tend not to sit well with some Canadians.
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"CS worker" = people with a degree in computer science
Not a single person I was friends with in college went on to work in the same field as their major - well, I guess there was one guy who got a CS degree and went on to code, but in a very different role than the specialty he got a masters in.
When people use these ambiguous phrases like "IT" or "CS worker", I always wonder: why the euphemism? If you mean software developer, say software developer. It's the best job you can get (as far as working for other people without being a star entertainer) in many na
Bypassing the H1B visa requirement. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's not just a surplus in CS - in some areas it's a HUGE surplus. This is just a continuation of the exemptions granted to the banks to bring in foreign workers and have the current workers train them to do their jobs and then get laid off, ditto fast-food chains who don't want to hire Canadians who know their rights and as such are "too uppity", etc.
FTFA:
Karen Jones, Microsoft’s deputy general counsel, said the deal will allow Microsoft to bypass stricter U.S. rules on visas for foreign workers.
"The U.S. laws clearly did not meet our needs. We have to look to other places," she told the wire service. She went on to say Microsoft didn’t choose to expand in Vancouver "purely for immigration purposes, but immigration is a factor."
The source said that means the company will take advantage of rules governing intra-company transfers, which require employees to work for at least one year at a company subsidiary before being transferred to the U.S. He says the result will be a net disadvantage for Canada.
Bad enough the Burger King - Tim Hortons deal was a blatant tax dodge at a time when governments everywhere are trying to get corporations to behave more responsibly ... I guess the Harper government decided to "double-double down."
Blame Canada.
Shame, Canada.
Oh, Canada.
Oh-oh Canada.
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interesting - I've been saying the same about americans in the US - they are 'too uppity' and know their rights, so therefore, they can't be bullied as much as indi^H^H^H^Hforeign workers holding h1b's.
that's yet another elephant in the room; its not so much about huge difference in wages (in the US, the h1b's get pretty close to what the USians make; not 50% and not 30%, but close to 80 or 90%) but its more about 'getting more hours out of them' with less complaining. fear of being shipped back home is en
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We do not have a shortage of CS workers in this country, we have a surplus
CS workers is an ambiguous term, since a lot of CS jobs require vastly different skills. Even if your statement is based on real data, I don't think it's telling the whole story. Employment statistics are incredibly easy to spin. Not every CS worker has the skills necessary to work for Microsoft.
Not being a Canadian myself I don't have any first hand experience. The ictc article from 2013 seems to contradict your statement.
http://www.ictc-ctic.ca/?p=184... [ictc-ctic.ca]
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:5, Interesting)
Agreed. People quickly specialize just like any profession. I think I'm pretty comfortable learning new stuff but my experience and expertise lies with C# and tsql development. So for example going with a recent posting I've looked at: when Google posts a job wanting a javascript and Python coder with 5 years experience with each I'm not that guy. I might be able to talk myself into a shot but it isn't exactly like the recruiter is going to be jumping up and down saying "obviously that guy will figure it out quickly". I need a great resume, have good real world (if not directly related) experience, and solid references to get an interview. Then I need to sell myself like hell to convince the hiring manager to give me a chance. Similar with MS: a lot of people don't have C/C++ experience any more. Some areas of the company that might be fine, others it won't be it all depends on what they want you for.
Most commenters seemed to be missing the point of the linked article though: these are for trainee positions. MS might be using it as a way to weasle around HB-1 requirements (people getting foreign subsidary experience to get around limits) but it might be that it is a training centre to ultimately send people back to their home countries. It could be hard to scatter around say Office development and have the true experts with the code base mentor junior devs in each of the countries MS operates in. Easier to have them nearby Redmond for a couple years then push them out already relatively up to speed back to India, Ireland, wherever.
It really depends what MS's intent is with the workers that are "trainees". If they are meant to go back "home" then they probably weren't jobs Canadians were qualified for anyways: language/culture reasons, presumably their home countries have similar hire local first rules, or are otherwise unappealing to most Canadians: earning $10,000 a year in India for example. Similar to H1-B rules if I understand them correctly (I'm Canadian not American) for those workers that MS is allowed to bring in they should mandate that they get comparable wages compared to Canadian workers so as not to drop the market price for "IT" workers in Vancouver down to Indian wage levels. Vancouver is one of the most expensive cities in the world, I moved away from there because of it: earning a programmers salary there is about equivalent to being a college student elsewhere in the country: ie one bedroom apartment and enough money left over at the end of the week to order a pizza. Not my thing, but I guess people make equivalent choices when they live in San Fran or whatever.
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:5, Insightful)
MS might be using it as a way to weasle around HB-1 requirements (people getting foreign subsidary experience to get around limits)
That's exactly what it is. There's no point in sugar coating it with the presumption of that they're trying to help out the little guy. This is all part of the orchestrated plan by the elites to create an oversupply of labor with foreign workers and drive wages down. Their proximity to Vancouver makes this a slam dunk for Microsoft. Why sink money into lobbying for more H1Bs when L1Bs are unlimited and NAFTA greases the bureaucratic wheels.
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The source said that means the company will take advantage of rules governing intra-company transfers, which require employees to work for at least one year at a company subsidiary before being transferred to the U.S. He says the result will be a net disadvantage for Canada.
How much will these trainees cost our universal health care system? It's not like, as trainees, they're going to be making beaucoup bux.
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I kind of ignored that comment in the article I'm not really clear who the source is and lets face it immigration issues will always have people interested in looking at the worst possible outcome and explaining it that way. It isn't Mexican farm workers doing jobs Americans don't want to do, it is Mexicans, some with cartel ties ... Yeah some do but the vast majority.
Not going to happen but the least they could do is since they are immigrating to work for a foreign companies benefit force MS to pay for the
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Of course not everyone is under this program but H-1Bs at least need to be paid the going rate for their job/geographical location. The funny thing is citizens have no such protection, so if you are too easy going, not well informed, desperate to move etc and except a salary that is 50% of what the going rate is that is your problem, but a foreign worker with the situational/personality traits would have some protections by the nature of the H1B system. Canada's Skilled Worker program has the same requireme
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Oh and single payer heathcare: yep that is good. Obamacare can work too though. I'm Canadian and lived in Germany. There if you work you have to buy insurance but are free to pick the provider, the provider charges a fixed percentage of your salary (at the time I was there typically 8-10%). If you don't work you are covered by the government. Either way you always have coverage and the "haves" subsidize the cost of the "have nots" just like would happen in a single payer system. Either way I'm happy with: s
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You want to block companies from hiring the best workers at the best price? If a Canadian company can't hire the best workers for the best price, a foreign company will. What's your plan for blocking Canadians from buying the best software (which will be foreign if you get your way) at the best price? What about blocking them from buying the best cars, tvs, phones, etc at the best price?
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Here is what I read:
Microsoft is building a training center.
They will be training folks from Canada as well as folks from other countries.
Microsoft Obscuristan has a young person they would like to train so they send him to the Microsoft training center in Canada.
They are not bringing them here to sew shirts in a sweatshop (or any IT equivalant) they are bringing them here to train.
It is a net benefit to Canada. It has a net positive effect on jobs available to Canadians.
From:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/r [cic.gc.ca]
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"We do not have a shortage of CS workers in this country, we have a surplus, and with some provinces having over 10% unemployment rates Harper is seemingly doing everything he can to keep Canadians out of Canadian jobs."
If you think anyone of the parties in government gives a damn about you then you need to learn about the myth of "balance" in capitalist societies
http://homepages.law.asu.edu/~... [asu.edu]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
Overthrowing governments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
http://www.amazon.com/W [amazon.com]
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It's often about putting some people above the law, and they frequently find a group to demonise to put below the law as well. It's against the entire idea of western civilisation of justice for all. However they don't care, they just don't get this civilisation thing. Fucking barbarians in suits.
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...Harper is seemingly doing everything he can to keep Canadians out of Canadian jobs.
Fucking neocons.
Fucking neocons? Fucking traitors, I say. I also despair for our country under Harper's dict - er, leadership. His ultimate goal seems to be to turn Canada into America's bitch and/or the stooge of any multinational corporation wanting to bend us over and take advantage of us. We used to have a good reputation internationally and some influence on the world stage - hell, we used to have *autonomy*. Now we're increasingly sticking our nose into other countries' business at the behest of our cousins north of
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Incorrect. Harper is a skilled politician that does things he knows about. Like oil. He knows a lot about oil. He knows oil provides jobs, and good paying ones at that. He knows anything that threatens oil will make it less profitable, and thus, make it less money and hurt Canada.
Of course, Ha
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Ya. Fucking neocons... I say bring back the stripper visas [owjn.org] that the Liberals put in place!
Seriously, you should try removing your head from your ass. All politicians are criminals. The Conservatives want more foreign techs, the Liberals want more foreign strippers. That's the way the world works -- try not to get so polarized about it.
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We do not have a shortage of CS workers in this country, we have a surplus, and with some provinces having over 10% unemployment rates Harper is seemingly doing everything he can to keep Canadians out of Canadian jobs.
Fucking neocons.
There is probably some clauses in the deal that state that they will allow two for one. Two foreign for one domestic. Not fair you say? Well, it will cause a depletion of jobs from Silicon valley as permanent jobs move north. For northerners (we Canadians), there should be an increase in jobs for domestically qualified software developers. Why, we may even see an immigration of US citizens to Canada because of it. The net benefit will, of course, be corporate tax revenue for Canada. If MS comes to Que
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"Canadian jobs"? Do Canadians own those jobs?
The rules are clear - companies are supposed to look at the local talent pool to see if a Canadian can do the job before looking elsewhere -- and this deal blows yet another hole in that regulation.
The federal government has granted an exemption to Microsoft Canada that will allow the company to bring in an unspecified number of temporary foreign workers to British Columbia as trainees without first looking for Canadians to fill the jobs.
And when you write:
(CS workers as the proletariat, ha!)
Times have changed. Ageism is battling with misogamy as THE issue in IT. You may want to read this [bloombergview.com]
Software Engineers Will Work One Day for English Majors
41 Apr 22, 2012 6:00 PM EDT
April 23 (Bloomberg) -- Which of the following describes careers in software engineering?
A. Intellectually stimulating and gratifying.
B. Excellent pay for new bachelor’s degree grads.
C. A career dead-end.
The correct answer (with a “your mileage may vary” disclaimer) is: D. All of the above.
Many programmers find that their employability starts to decline at about age 35.
Employers dismiss them as either lacking in up-to-date technical skills -- such as the latest programming-language fad -- or "not suitable for entry level." In other words, either underqualified or overqualified. That doesn’t leave much, does it?
Statistics show that most software developers are out of the field by age 40.
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If you're not ever more in demand as you gather more years of skill, perhaps you've let your skills grow stale (thinking "the cloud" isn't important is the new thinking "the internet" isn't important), or perhaps you have 1 year of experience 20 times, instead of 20 years of growth.
Many programmers find that their employability starts to decline at about age 35.
In my early 30s, I still had a hard time getting the attention of recruiters, let alone hiring managers. At 45 they won't leave me alone.
Employers dismiss them as either lacking in up-to-date technical skills -- such as the latest programming-language fad -- or "not suitable for entry level." In other words, either underqualified or overqualified. That doesnâ(TM)t leave much, does it?
Programming language fads are a thing of front-end "web designers" and app developers. Tha
Re:Fucking Hell, Harper needs to go! (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're not ever more in demand as you gather more years of skill, perhaps you've let your skills grow stale (thinking "the cloud" isn't important is the new thinking "the internet" isn't important), or perhaps you have 1 year of experience 20 times, instead of 20 years of growth.
Neither insults nor denial will change the facts. IT has several problems, including ageism, racism, and misogamy.
But for back-end/infrastructure coding, things change more slowly, with a slow drift from C++ to Java over 10 years, and now Python just starting to be taken seriously, maybe in another 10 years it will be important. If you can't keep up with that sort of change, how'd you learn the field in the first place?
Of course, if you never want to change tools, there's a job as a kernel dev waiting if you can hack it - they still party like it's 1989!
Around 1985, assembler, then c, c++, then clipper and a bunch of other database development tools, then switched to windows for a while, pascal and delphi, switched to linux near the end of the century, the "p" languages (php, python, perl), bash scripting, javascript, java (I was late for Java because it was TOO DARN SLOW). At some point I had to use windows concurrently to do flash development and a few other things.
So, neither 1 year of experience repeated 20 times, nor a reluctance to try new things - whatever gets the job that I was being paid for done.. That came to an end 3 years ago when my retinas started to bleed too much and I couldn't use a computer until a few months ago. I miss programming for a living, but I don't miss all the garbage that seems to be inextricably entangled with it, such as the "pissing contests", the hoarding of information, the sexism, the insane hours, the constant changing of designs "because someone saw something really neat and we need it too". Besides, the treatment of people with visual (or other) handicaps also generally sucks.
I guess it's time to end with the almost-obligatory "now get off my lawn, kid" comment, but my heart's not really in it.
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Neither insults nor denial will change the facts. IT has several problems, including ageism, racism, and misogamy.
The insults are an added bonus, but I suggest abandoning "IT", whatever that is (something from the 20th century, like data processing?), and becoming a software developer.
That came to an end 3 years ago when my retinas started to bleed too much and I couldn't use a computer until a few months ago
Well, yeah, the onset of blindness would be a real kick in the teeth in most fields, though I suspect a blind developer would do far better than a blind welder.
the "pissing contests", the hoarding of information, the sexism, the insane hours, the constant changing of designs
Any of those are such alarming warning signs I'd be changing companies ASAP. That's the gutter of this field (which most of us wind up in one way or another from time to time), no
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I suggest abandoning "IT", whatever that is (something from the 20th century, like data processing?), and becoming a software developer.
Software development is part of Information Technology, and it was what I did.
I suspect a blind developer would do far better than a blind welder.
Nah - the welder has a union :-) That's something that programmers have needed for years, if not decades, if only to prevent the worst abuses. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies.
The docs have restored most of my vision in one eye, but the other isn't so good. So the question is, do I really want to spend the time before they go again writing code for some ingrate? The answer is "no."
Rather not have a union, thanks (Score:2)
Maybe a professional organization, like the Engineers have here in Canada.
I had friends working for a union building pipelines. It was all about seniority, not skill. My mom worked as part of a union, and they didn't represent her interests. My friend worked for a union and they made here go on strike due to issues that some other people in a totally different job had on the other side of the country.
Meanwhile I've worked for three different companies over the past decade and a half, I've gotten along wi
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But then so was Java at the time :)
I'm still facing one Java based application with a GUI that moves at glacial speeds.
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Not really sure why the last one is a problem.
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Canadians own the land and infrastructure that MS wants to use because it is close to Redmond and not as limited for immigration. It seems only reasonable if MS wants to hire thousands of people and base them out of Vancouver or whatever that Canadians should at least get a shot at those jobs. Canada doesn't need to create jobs for Indians or whatever. If we need immigrants to fill jobs we can't with the local labor supply that is one thing, but to create situations that are pretty much by designed to have
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This category of foreign labour is subject to much worse working conditions and minimum pay. This is a new way for the 99% to abuse the public (of any country) through legal loopholes and government corruption. Microsoft just went through a firing spree in Canada as well... you connect the dots.
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Obviously, if you reject such a thing entirely that doesn't much matter; but the point remains in that context.
Payoff (Score:2)
Someone's getting a nice big bribe!
We just got finished closing this door (Score:2)
Re:Remember the stripper visa (Score:5, Informative)
In my opinion, it is very positive for us to have high educated and motivated individuals working here.
They won't be working long-term in Canada. FTFA:
The government notice says the new training and development centre will focus on "software and engineering." The notice also says foreign workers will be given 24-month work permits to allow them to stay in Canada "until they are transitioned by Microsoft into a new position elsewhere.
That "elsewhere" is the US.
Karen Jones, Microsoft’s deputy general counsel, said the deal will allow Microsoft to bypass stricter U.S. rules on visas for foreign workers.
And that stripper program? [theglobeandmail.com]
Earlier this year, Mr. Kenney announced that employers with good reputations would be allowed to fast track the hiring of temporary foreign workers and be allowed to pay them 15 per cent less than the average wage for a particular job. Labour groups and the NDP opposition slammed the move, accusing the Conservatives of driving down wages on behalf of employers.
Same crap, different day.
Re:Remember the stripper visa (Score:5, Insightful)
Western Europeans are coming from an economy just as good as our own, so they aren't willing to work for peanuts and thus don't drive down wages like people from third-world countries do.
Asians from developed countries (e.g. Japan) would be welcomed just as warmly, for the same reason.
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well then, hand over the green cards which would allow them to settle in the US and demand treatment just like citizens. oh right those are only for relatives of people already in the US..more than a million of them each year. yea they don't take jobs.
McD's been doing it for years (Score:5, Informative)
Until recently, McDonalds and Tim Horton's in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) have been doing this sort of thing for years. Usually in the form of 'minority hiring' that shuns the citizenry. They got their hands smacked soundly over it, and now are being watched like a hawk.
URL Reference here:
http://www.vancouversun.com/li... [vancouversun.com]
Now Microsoft is going to do it en masse, taking away the positions from Canadian citizens that have been training here...
There will be a reckoning over this one.
What reckoning (Score:1)
The biggest issue is that older people - who often either don't understand or don't care about much of this - vote for the conservative government that's currently in power. The younger demographic - who are getting thoroughly screwed by the current government in terms of less jobs, selling off of domestic natural resources, and increasing cost of education/housing/etc - don't seem to get out to vote. Now to be fair, some of this is due to the government screwing with the rules around voting (particularly a
Vancouver Ripped Off (Score:1)
Plenty of Vancouver Microsoft-Nokia staff were layed off or terminated in the period just before this announcement. Many are not yet even back on their feet.
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A country that speaks English without a thick accent
You've obviously never been to Newfoundland ... or Quebec, where the English have adopted a lot of French words...
Let me explain... (Score:1)
That big MS office in the Bay Area was really expensive to operate. Steve Balmer was OK with it but the new CEO no.
Now it's mostly gone but the need is still there. So the solution is simple: off-shore (or off-border) the positions to Canada and bring in the Indians, Chinese, and laid-off Americans. All for a fraction of the initial cost!! Canada is also more pro-employers than the US in many ways (ex. taxes in some areas, free healthcare, etc)...
Now, Harper is pro-immigration (numbers are hitting the r
Re: (Score:2)
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If this is somehow needed, then the laws ought to be changed
Indeed, otherwise this is called privilege (that is: private law), something that has democracy is supposed to have stopped.
Bribing politicians works (Score:2)
Even in Canada, sadly.
Rope, tree, politician. Some assembly required.
No wonder so many contracts go to Microsoft (Score:1)
After a move like that, is it any wonder that Microsoft gets so many contracts with the government of Canada? It's another sad day for open source in Canada when it is so obvious that the GoC is in Microsoft's pocket.
Tell Govt to impose tax on Microsoft revenues (Score:1)
http://news.yahoo.com/warren-b... [yahoo.com]
You're paying Income tax on your salary, not savings.
Tell Govt to impose tax on Company revenues, not profits.
http://wh.gov/iCfVS [wh.gov]