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Republicans Government United States Politics

Republicans Block Latest Attempt At Curbing NSA Power 445

Robotron23 writes: The latest attempt at NSA reform has been prevented from passage in the Senate by a margin of 58 to 42. Introduced as a means to stop the NSA collecting bulk phone and e-mail records on a daily basis, the USA Freedom Act has been considered a practical route to curtailment of perceived overreach by security services, 18 months since Edward Snowden went public. Opponents to the bill said it was needless, as Wall Street Journal raised the possibility of terrorists such as ISIS running amok on U.S. soil. Supporting the bill meanwhile were the technology giants Google and Microsoft. Prior to this vote, the bill had already been stripped of privacy protections in aid of gaining White House support. A provision to extend the controversial USA Patriot Act to 2017 was also appended by the House of Representatives.
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Republicans Block Latest Attempt At Curbing NSA Power

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  • So basically (Score:5, Insightful)

    by magsol ( 1406749 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:00AM (#48416869) Journal
    A watered down version of the original bill with the name "FREEDOM" in the very title still couldn't pass muster once the WSJ put the words "terrorist" and "ISIS" next to it.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Come on, we know that it was dead before word one was written. I'm just curious when libertarians will admit their people are just as in bed with money as the rest of us so we can finally fight the money together. The ones with money are the ones taking all your guns and taking all the jobs.

      • Re:So basically (Score:5, Insightful)

        by i kan reed ( 749298 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:09AM (#48416947) Homepage Journal

        Libertarians don't admit that because they typically don't admit to voting republican in the first place.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Republicans vote because, "I got mine, fuck everyone else."

          Libertarians vote because, "Roads, schools, hospitals, and fire departments are big Government, and therefore bad."

        • Re:So basically (Score:5, Insightful)

          by mi ( 197448 ) <slashdot-2017q4@virtual-estates.net> on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @11:10AM (#48418033) Homepage Journal

          Good to see Illiberals target libertarians on a regular basis now... Only 10 years ago or so, we were simply dismissed with mild amusement.

          There is hope for America yet.

        • by Bardez ( 915334 )
          I voted Libertarian on everything in Illinois, except Dick Durbin. I voted Republican there in order to not dilute the potential votes getting rid of him.
      • Re:So basically (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:28AM (#48417073)

        Libertarianism is just Big Government renamed to Big Government Inc., with less accountability to the people.

        Power always finds a vacuum.

        • Re:So basically (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Jeff Flanagan ( 2981883 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:45AM (#48417209)
          >Libertarianism is just Big Government renamed to Big Government Inc., with less accountability to the people.

          This is why most of us grow out of our Libertarian phase by our mid-20s.
          • Re:So basically (Score:4, Interesting)

            by LF11 ( 18760 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:54AM (#48417293) Homepage
            ...and become anarchists?
    • by khasim ( 1285 ) <brandioch.conner@gmail.com> on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:10AM (#48416951)
    • PATRIOT Act (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Gary Perkins ( 1518751 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:58AM (#48417345) Journal
      I wonder if maybe attaching a PATRIOT extension to the bill might have anything to do with it dying.
      • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

        yet none of those senators have the guts to bring up repealing PATRIOT.

        That needs to be repealed, it's 100% evil and they all know it.

  • by NotDrWho ( 3543773 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:05AM (#48416913)

    Remember that ISIS is our enemy now. They have always been our enemy.

    Ignore those who say they used to be our ally in Syria and we were sending them weapons and aid. They want the T E R R O R I S T S to win!

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Those dummies.

      From the WSJ article: "the former head of the National Counterterrorism Center, Matthew Olsen, disclosed in September that terrorists tracked by U.S. intelligence services have started encrypting their communications in ways that defeat detection, and that the government has lost track of several."

      Not sure how the continued bulk collection is going to help anyone.

    • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:24AM (#48417051)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • by NatasRevol ( 731260 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:48AM (#48417235) Journal

        You're willing to sit on the sidelines while ISIS engages in a campaign of genocide and ethnic/religious cleansing?

        Why were we fine with doing this when the warlords of Africa were doing it? Or Bosnia?

        Or anyplace else on this list:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L... [wikipedia.org]

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • "Why were we fine with doing this when the warlords of Africa were doing it? Or Bosnia?"

          In all fairness, it doesn't seem that everyone was fine with it happening in Bosnia:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I... [wikipedia.org]

        • Why were we fine with doing this when the warlords of Africa were doing it? Or Bosnia?

          No one is fine with that. Who is fine with that?

          The reason Obama is helping against Syria is because the Kurds have a very strong multi-national lobbying group. So that's why.

      • ISIS hates everyone and is a threat to everyone. Why should America have to lead the charge? Because we're the only ones willing to? ISIS is a graver threat to European countries who are content to keep their hands clean. ISIS is an even graver threat to other Middle Eastern countries like Turkey and Iran, whose agendas are different from our own and whose actions may provoke us against them so they aren't going to want to make themselves a target. You see? America being the first to act in every military s

      • You're willing to sit on the sidelines while ISIS engages in a campaign of genocide and ethnic/religious cleansing? ...... They're barbarians and they need to be terminated with extreme prejudice.

        You're against ethnic/religious cleansing but want to "terminate with extreme prejudice" an entire very large group of people largely defined along ethnic and religious lines .........

        words fail me

      • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

        "You're willing to sit on the sidelines while ISIS engages in a campaign of genocide and ethnic/religious cleansing?"

        This has been happening in the Middle East for more than 1000 years. If you think ISIS is something new then you really need to get an education.
        Murdering each other is a way of life in the Middle east. Their holy books demand you kill non believers.

        Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is

        • This has been happening in the Middle East for more than 1000 years. If you think ISIS is something new then you really need to get an education.
          Murdering each other is a way of life in the Middle east. Their holy books demand you kill non believers

          Christian Bible (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) - "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek
          the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

          Christian Bible (Deuteronomy 13:7-12) - "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any o

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by i kan reed ( 749298 )

      They(and their constituent subgroups) were never our ally in Syria. The groups we have given material support to in Syria have ended up fighting both Assad and Isis, which is just what Assad wants: rebels fighting each other over ideological differences are rebels not ousting him from office. There have even been accusations that he strategically ceded the most rebellious territories to ISIS so that international support for his being in power waxes.

      ISIS got the American military equipment they did by s

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      So basically, they're saying "the land of the free and the home of the brave" should sacrifice our fundamental liberties and allow the government to ignore the constitution to keep us safe. Why don't they just move to North Korea? It has everything they want.

    • by xiando ( 770382 )
      Used to be? ISIS still is and always was a CIA controlled group. It's basically Al-CIAda re-branded. The "war on terror" is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous.
    • by Lumpy ( 12016 )

      Oceania have always been at war with EastAsia.

  • Just wondering, I can't seem to find them.

    I found this, but the last action mentioned was when it was introduced on 10/29/2013.
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/... [congress.gov]

    Seems like the right link, I'm guessing it hasn't been updated.

  • Well of course... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by advocate_one ( 662832 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:18AM (#48417009)
    ISIS will be running amok in the US... the FBI and CIA will be recruiting and funding gullible fools to do these "acts"... all so they can catch them and say look ISIS is running amok...
    • by Maritz ( 1829006 )
      To be honest I don't really think they need to do that. So far, doing jazz hands and saying 'TERRORISTS!' seems to be perfectly sufficient.
  • I always identified as a republican.. a moderate -- but still republican.

    Not anymore. :(

  • Seriously. (and it's not only in US). If *any* person did the same thing, the courts would be all over them. But when NSA or CSIS do it it's OK?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]

  • by operagost ( 62405 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:55AM (#48417305) Homepage Journal

    Again, I ask you: did anyone read the article?

    Both Democrats and Republicans voted against this bill. So this was, tongue in cheek, a bipartisan effort against liberty. For what it's worth, Democrat Mark Udall seems to have opposed it because it doesn't do enough, which can be a frustrating, yet respectable position.

    But the days when at least every other Slashdot headline and summary actually reflected what was contained in the article are gone. So you TL;DR types dominate the discussion with nonsense partisanship that is not based on fact. And that fact is that, as usual, the schmucks in charge value their power over liberty and do not serve us.

  • They might not have succeeded with more attention to the issue. If, for example, Slashdot had posted the story [slashdot.org], we might be reading a different story today.

  • Geeze, we couldn't get TWO votes...one of which was a Democrat? (Nelson of Florida)?

  • by hymie! ( 95907 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @10:32AM (#48417647)

    It's probably important to note that the vote was not 58 against and 42 for. It was 58 for and 42 against, with 60 "yes" votes needed for passage.

  • Bad bill. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Chas ( 5144 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @10:50AM (#48417817) Homepage Journal

    Honestly? In its final form? The FREEDOM act was BADLY compromised. To the point where it would, in some ways, be achieving the OPPOSITE of the bill's original intent and could compromise our rights

    I'd rather a bill like that get left on the floor.

  • Prior to this vote, the bill had already been stripped of privacy protections in aid of gaining White House support

    Sounds like the most crucial parts were stripped out to get the President's pre-approval. What party is Obama from, again?

  • by radarskiy ( 2874255 ) on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @12:25PM (#48418747)

    What every article seems to bury if not outright ignore is that this was the vote for cloture, not the bill itself.

    Cloture is a vote to end debate and call the question. Under current US Senate rules it takes 60 votes for cloture where it applies. A bill take 51 votes to pass.

    Of the 42 votes against cloture, 1 was a Democrat. Of the 58 votes for cloture, 4 were Republicans.

    Since the Republicans had enough votes to block cloture, the question could not be called. This means that either debate must continue until quorum fails (fillibuster) or debate is tabled with no vote and the agenda proceeds to the next item.

    However, whether the votes against cloture were because the individual senator felt work on the bill is not complete and it would be worse than the status quo or that the individual senator desired to just stall the vote cannot be determined only from the vote results.

The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.

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