Santorum Defends Robocalls To Democrats 290
Hugh Pickens writes "The LA Times reports that Rick Santorum defended his robocalls urging Democrats in Michigan to vote in today's critical primary, a tactic that has come under withering criticism from rival Mitt Romney as a 'terrible dirty trick' and a 'new low for his campaign.' Santorum says he reached out to Democratic voters, who can vote in the primary, to show that 'we can attract voters we need to win states like Michigan,' and noted that the former Massachusetts governor has wooed Democrats in the past and used Santorum's own words endorsing him in the 2008 race on a robocall of his own. 'I didn't complain about it. I don't complain. You know what, I'm a big guy. I can take it.' Romney crossed party lines himself to vote for Paul Tsongas in the 1992 Democratic primary over Bill Clinton in order to cause mischief for the general election. 'In Massachusetts, if you register as an independent, you can vote in either the Republican or Democratic primary,' said Romney, who until he made an unsuccessful run for Senate in 1994 had spent his adult life as a registered independent."
Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
This has no place on /.
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
This has no place on /.
I second this motion. All in favor?
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
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The ayes have IT.
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Stop it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Agree. This is part of a long Michigan tradition of crossover voting. Big deal.
If they ever conclusively prove that Romney is a cyborg, that would be /.-worthy.
Re:Stop it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Slashdot has always covered major political events, certainly presidential elections. Certain things are "New for Everyone", of which "News for Nerds" is a subset.
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
And absolutely who the next president is - and the fight to get there - is going to have fallout that impacts the technical/nerd/geek world.
The politicians and other powers that be are quite aware of our toys and the potential of what we do, and absolutely want to own and control it.
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Funny)
Indeed.
Romney will most likely either gut the internet, take out a massive loan on its assets to pay his management fee and then file bankruptcy on the internet, or sell it off to the (RI|MP)AA.
Santorum will most likely burn it at the stake for its perversion, witchcraft and the definition of Santorum.
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope.
Ron Paul is A-OK with burning people at the stake, if that's done according to state laws (not federal ones).
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Somehow I don't think the Republican Primary this year is a "major political event" to anyone but the pundits.
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
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What I see from my side of the border, is that the election has already been decided. Obama will win again, and here is why:
Gingrich has been out of the running ever since his desire for an open marriage came out.
Romney, has already started fading into the background.
Paul, who?
Santorum, He will probably win the nomination. But he is a religious nut job! So far out there
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Re:Stop it. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Funny)
If Slashdot doesn't keep me minimally informed on political issues, then how am I going to know how much each candidate hates my freedom? How would I ever have known who was a traitor and who was against SOPA?
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fun caresAboutYourFreedom(candidate : Democrat) = 0
| caresAboutYourFreedom(candidate : Republican) = 0
Re:Stop it. (Score:5, Insightful)
This has no place on /.
Then what is this /. section called politics for then?
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This has no place on /.
Then what is this /. section called politics for then?
It should be renamed "US Politics Only".
Nothing of the Labor leadership stouch last weekend (Ranga retained leadership if you're interested, won $50 in the process), there are coups in Thailand or violence in the Philippine elections (both important US allies in Asia), the violence in the mid east only got peripheral coverage. Never seen a thread on the German parliamentary elections, the UK _might_ get a mention but apart from that, crickets.
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I'd much rather be able to build a custom RSS feed so my RSS feed wouldn't see the stories I'm not interested in.
That's what Yahoo Pipes [yahoo.com] is for.
Take for example this pipe [yahoo.com], clone it, then add one filter for each section you want to take out.
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This has no place on /.
Yes. The AT-5000 Auto-dialer was meant for calling you to tell you to send $1 to Happy Dude
Re:Stop it. (Score:4, Informative)
Frink: [snpp.com]
Why it's the AT-5000 Auto-Dialer. My very first patent.
Aw, would you listen to the gibberish they've got you saying, it's sad and alarming.
You were designed to alert schoolchildren about snow days and such.
Well, let's get you home to Frinky. Hope your wheels still work, bw-hey.
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Unfortunately, politics influences the Internet (for example, see the recent attempts to push ACTA through) and are thus relevant to nerds. This is especially true of the US, due to the power it wields and the likely consequences of losing that power due to mismanagement (China becomes the next hyperpower and unleashes even worse things upon the world, or European Union prevails and enforces its own brand of censorship). Since Slashdot advertises itself as news of nerds, politics are
Contradiction (Score:3, Insightful)
So he didn't "cross party lines" then, did he?
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So he didn't "cross party lines" then, did he?
Let's call it half a party line, as he was registered as neither Republicrat or Democan. Open Primaries are a good thing, unless they are manipulated thus. Even Rush Limbaugh was suggesting GOP voters in Michigan vote for someone, to interfer with the Democratic Primary in 2008 -- I think that's electioneering and illegal, that he did it on radio I'm rather puzzled charges weren't brought.
Re:Contradiction (Score:4, Insightful)
I would hate to think if voting in an opposing party's primary were a federal offense. As a liberal in a deeply red state, I know that the only vote I have is my vote in the GOP primary. They will vote "Not Obama", and the electoral college system assures that "Not Obama" will get my share of my state's votes. I should have some say in who "Not Obama" is.
The only difference between what I'm doing and what Santorum is encouraging is that I am voting for the guy who I would want to see in office, if Obama loses. To me, it's important, but I understand that most people wouldn't care about that distinction.
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Actually party primaries are a bad idea IMO. If we had a real ballot that allowed us to rank multiple candidates, then each party could have multiple candidates, and we should have open primaries to allow all voters a chance to promote all candidates. Let the top 20 candidates through the primary process, then let everybody rank who they like based on their preferences. I think this would significantly improve voter turnout since more people would have their preferred candidate in the race until the end.
Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:3)
But then if you buy into Santorums position that education is for snobs and if your not rabidly pro Christian your anti religion robo calls may work on you.
Re:Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:5, Funny)
Seconded. And imagine the calls these people must have received:
"Hi there Democrat voter, have you ever thought that you might like Santorum? A lot of people who at first found the idea repulsive were glad they tried playing on the other team and haven't gone back. I'm here to convince you that what would make America great, is a big heaping helping of Santorum."
Re:Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:4, Interesting)
Thats what makes it a crazy story. Oldest trick in the book that "the other side" always votes for the most unelectable guy to make certain they can win against him. You have to be a total political noob to try this stunt of asking for D votes before the nomination, whoever the D vote for is who they think O will be able to easily beat. Which everyone knows is Santorum anyway. Thats why everyone who pays attention to this thought the Santorum (the guy, not the bodily fluid) robocalls were a "dirty trick" by Romney's guys to make Santorum look bad (well, he does a pretty good job all by himself, I mean help him look worse). Then Santorum is dumb enough to admit to doing the robocalls himself. That dude is doomed to never get the nomination after this little scuffle. If he wasn't a complete idiot he'd blame Romney for the robocalls to democrats in support of himself. Indications of a martyr complex?
1. Find something that no one likes, like cross burning or robo calls.
2. Spend money to frame competition for doing it.
3. Profit! Or at least donations to you instead of competition, unless your stupid enough to admit you did it.
I will say that the only thing worse that this would be getting caught and outed by your opponent. The only intelligent explanation is Santorum tried to frame Romney by paying for robo calls to democrats in support of himself, but Romney caught him and got the goods on him, "and for the greater good of the R party" the chiefs (big donors, etc) convinced Santorum to fall on his sword instead of getting totally destroyed by Romney outing him. Santorum will probably get a minor position in "reward" for falling on his sword. Not too high up, getting caught being a crook is rough on the reputation...
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This is just part of the Republican Party's unconscious effort to self-destruct. Ever since the Tea-Bag/Libertarian crowd became the moving force in the party, supplanting the Chamber of Commerce types who were in charge for most of the 20th century, it's been infected with a kind of political rabies. Not only are they lashing out with no rhyme or reason, it's affected the Theocratic Right as well. Whether they can be successful in this election and/or recover for 2014/2016 depends on whether the Chamber
Re:Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just part of the Republican Party's unconscious effort to self-destruct.
I'm not sure it's unconscious. I think they may be running a longer game. When McCain picked Sarah Palin as his running mate, I couldn't help wondering if he was deliberately throwing the 2008 election to Obama. Perhaps he saw the biggest economic shitstorm since the Depression approaching, and knew that it would be blamed on whoever was in office.
If the GOP actually nominates Santorum, this will no longer be an unlikely-sounding conspiracy theory, but an irrefutable fact. It will mean that the Republicans are absolutely terrified of something that they're reasonably certain will happen in the next four years, and that they don't want anyone from their party in the Oval Office when it does.
I'm not going to vote for Obama again, either way, but I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.
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I hope there's no class action suit against the U.S. for neck injuries this year.
Re:Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:5, Funny)
Frothing, not foaming.
Remember Santorum frothes.
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“President Obama said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob! There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren’t taught by some liberal college professor trying to indoctrinate them. Oh I understand why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image. I want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image, not his.”
The problem is that President has not advocated that everyone should go to college. What the President said to Congress in 2009:
“And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training.This can be community college or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma. And dropping out of high school is no longer an option. It’s not just quitting on yourself, it’s quitting on your country — and this country needs and values the talents of every American.”
That and his position on JFK's address shows that Santorum is man who can't bother to listen past part of a sentence and has made his mind about what was said rather than understanding details.
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Ah, but that falls victim to a standard political trick - robo calling people pretending to be the other guy's campaign, ideally doing something outrageous. For instance, Dick Dodge's opponent might do a robo call with a script like:
"This is Ruby calling on behalf of Dick Dodge for Congress. I wanted to let you know that if Dick wins, I and my hot friends will be at his victory celebration to help all gentlemen celebrate properly!"
Or another popular one:
"This is Mike calling on behalf of Dick Dodge for Cong
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When I get robo calls, my inclination is to write a script that robo calls the caller's organization.
Re:Robo-calls make me avoid your product. (Score:4, Interesting)
But then if you buy into Santorums position that education is for snobs and if your not rabidly pro Christian your anti religion robo calls may work on you.
The problem is that there are a -lot- of people out there that buy into Santorum's "message", manufactured by a sociopath, consumed by idiots.
George Carlin's Theory of General Stupidity:
Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.
applies very well here.
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For instance a call at 2:00 AM saying vote for the Demican paid for by the Republicrat.
This is the primary election, I think Barack Obama is going to get the Democratic ticket regardless of what the Republicans do.
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I disagree. While Santorum doesn't stand a chance against Obama and Romney looks better than Santorum, Romney's got zero connection with middle America. Obama can rip right through that hole to an easy win. Santorum can talk to Americans, but America is not yet ready for a fascist/fundamentalist. Plus, he's genuinely stupid.
It's the message... (Score:3)
I think the act of reaching out the Democrats in and of itself is a non-issue.
If the message was "hey, I'm wanting to reach out to you because..." it'd be one thing. A "vote for me" message.
However, the message of the call is "Let's send Mitt Romney a MESSAGE!" A "vote against him" message.
IMHO, this is not quite the scandal everyone seems to be whipping it up to be, it's just "in your face" negative campaigning.
Can we talk about what candidates would do about Syria, now? Or maybe African genocide? How about finance reform? Hungry for real issues.
Is there a tech or geek angle to any of this... (Score:3)
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I didn't need to read beyond "robocall" to know that there was something very seriously wrong with this candidate. Now the R's have shown they have no worthy horse in the race. And we already know the D's are going to have no race at all.
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Yeah, you'd think on Slashdot we could at least get Robocall's [nbc.com] take on the issue.
My roomba (Score:5, Funny)
My roomba got a robo call once telling him to vote skynet.
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Vote Cylon! We're much more liberal and anti-human than Skynet.
Come over to the Netherlands, we'll euthanise him (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Come over to the Netherlands, we'll euthanise h (Score:5, Funny)
WW-III anyone?
I believe Santorum prefers to call it The Tenth Crusade.
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I doubt Santorum could find the Netherlands on the map. I doubt he could find Europe on a map.
Partially because his maps all depict a flat earth with "here be dragons" written on either side of the United States. The bible doesn't authorize a globe- so the earth must be flat.
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https://mtnspirit.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/world-map.png [wordpress.com]
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Fun fact, which American President has killed more Muslims via drone strike then GWB? Barack Obama.
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Fun fact, which American President has killed more Muslims via drone strike then GWB? Barack Obama.
I didn't know either of those guys flew drones!
Re:Come over to the Netherlands, we'll euthanise h (Score:4, Interesting)
No matter who is in the White House, there's a very good chance WWIII will be started on his watch. There's not one plausible candidate, D or R who doesn't have warmongering with Iran as a major part of their foreign policy platform.
If anything, Obama is a bigger threat to world peace than Santorum. The cult of personality behind him has made most voters oblivious to the fact that he has doubled down on all the worst offenses of the Bush administration. Obama could ask for any power whatsoever, and the so-called "moderates" would hand it over to him just because he's "not Bush".
I'd be extremely surprised if we didn't see an Obama reelection shortly followed by a propaganda blitz extremely similar to what we saw in the lead up to Iraq. And he'll get away with it, because people are more concerned about their team winning, than not being hypocrits.
Re:Come over to the Netherlands, we'll euthanise h (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, he hasn't actually started any wars on his watch, unlike, say... every other US President going back to Carter. (No, a handful of drone strikes in Libya and Somalia don't count.) He did end the war in Iraq and is ending the war in Afghanistan. He got Bin Laden with a minimal incursion that didn't become a full-blown invasion.
He's talking tough on Iran, but is showing no signs of actually planning for a military operation there. The budget cuts to the military show that.
Reality conflicts with your fear-mongering and false equivalency.
Re:Come over to the Netherlands, we'll euthanise h (Score:5, Insightful)
No, a handful of drone strikes in Libya and Somalia don't count.
I think if a drone struck your home, you might have a different opinion on whether that's an act of war. Although, Libya would be a rather minor transgression, if he hadn't violated the War Powers Act by staying there past the deadline.
He did end the war in Iraq and is ending the war in Afghanistan.
Yeah, he ended the Iraq War on the exact date Bush set, and was trying to stay longer. If you're happy that the Iraq war is over, you can thank the Iraqis for kicking us out. Obama had nothing to do with it.
I'll believe that Obama is ending the Afghanistan war when the Afghanistan war actually ends. He could have left when he killed OBL. I don't know what he's waiting for, but it's unlikely it will ever come. Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. Cut and run at the first opportunity is the only reasonable option.
Yes, BHO killed OBL, but he's also killed american citizens. Even juveniles. I'm far more frightened of living in an America where the president can have citizens assassinated with no oversight or detained without habeas corpus than I am of living in the same world as OBL.
Reality conflicts with your apologetics.
Re:Come over to the Netherlands, we'll euthanise h (Score:5, Insightful)
Santorum (Score:3)
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He's in quite a sticky situation here, and it stinks.
How is this good for Santorum? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would Santorum want to engage Democrats in the Republican primary. He's the fringe right wing candidate. Romney is nigh indistinguishable from the Democratic incumbant. If a Democrat shows up at the Republican primary, the odds are very good that he'll vote Romney.
The only way I can see a Democrat voting for Santorum in the primary is to help Obama win in the general election. Is Santorum banking on his own unelectability to win the primary? Or is that reading too much into this?
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Simpler explanation: Santorum is completely crazy, and this is just more evidence of his madness.
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The only way I can see a Democrat voting for Santorum in the primary is to help Obama win in the general election. Is Santorum banking on his own unelectability to win the primary?
Exactly. Unelectability in MI If you're not going to get the electoral votes from MI anyway, none of those people matter in any way except that they can be used to get your nomination, then you can win using other states. Its kind of a big middle finger from S to the state of MI. Which could lead Ds to vote for R anyway just to spite S.
Either that or S knew that robocalls are a dirty trick so tried to make it look like R was paying for them to frame S, but failed, R has proof, so S was ordered by his bo
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Because Romney was pretty vocal about being against the auto bailout while being *for* the corporate bailouts. Santorum might have even had the same positions, but Romney is the one fighting against the "Clueless, privileged aristocrat" stereotype. A quick poll I read this morning gave Santorum a 47-10 lead among Democrats in Michigan. It's pretty settled strategy that you do what you have to to get the nomination, then worry about tacking to the center for the general election.
Re:How is this good for Santorum? (Score:5, Insightful)
Democrats would cross over to vote for Santorum just to sabotage any chance for Republicans to beat Obama. Santorum has no hope in the general election while Romney actually has a slim chance.
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Re:How is this good for Santorum? (Score:4, Interesting)
If that strategy backfires it would be illegal to pray to Cthulhu before the year is out.
Pope Santorum of the newly established Church of America would outlaw all false gods- and any believe other than anything identical to what he believes.
The scary thing is- under Santorums view of the government- the current foremost official on American religion is Obama. Think about it- if there is no seperation of church and state- Obama is currently the head executive official for American religion- technically the prez doesn't write laws- but he gets to sign laws based on his own personal religious view.
What do people think of that?
The people who should be most afraid of the wearing down on seperation of church and state should be the religious.
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Shame I don't have mod points today.
No matter your personal political opinions, this is seriously playing with fire. The Democrats engaged in this same kind of meddling during the Republican primary of 1980 to ensure the weaker extremist Regan got nominated. A large amount of what has happened to the USA in the intervening 30 years (good and bad) can be blamed on that collosal miscalculation.
Re:How is this good for Santorum? (Score:4, Insightful)
Santorum is thinking of himself. Not the Republican party. Or the US in general. He's got this megalomaniacal mindset that says he's the only one that can run this country. But then that's true of most politicians.
You would think that the sane candidate would be using his parties' primary to sound out his electability in the general election. But instead, all of them are playing to their parties' median, forgetting that they represent about half of the electorate. Not good team players IMO.
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As a liberal, if it came down to it, I'd prefer to see Santorum in the White House over Romney.
Romney has already announced his plans to make the Bush tax cuts permanent, and then slash income taxes by an additional 20%, and eliminate estate taxes. He says he plans to do so without cutting Social Security, Medicare, or the military. That's $300B in cuts that will be heaped pretty much entirely on the poor and working class, right as we're recovering from the last disaster that his kind caused. And the Re
Political parties = bad idea. (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally I think they should do away with "special rights" of parties, etc.
There is nothing in our constitution that creates- or gives special rights to political parties. There is nothing about our brand of democracy that benefits from having parties. George Washington actually called them a bad idea and thought the US should stay away from them.
The government by including party affiliation on ballots- and helping organise- and give public spaces to primaries are interfering with fair elections- it gives an unfair advantage to the two largest parties and does not give a level playing field.
Being a two-party system the majority of the population are pressured into voting for one of two ideologies. "an independant or a third-party can't win" is a common belief... certainly it is made harder by states allowing people to vote "straight-party ticket". This makes it harder for independants or third parties to be elected.
Re:Political parties = bad idea. (Score:5, Informative)
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UK system is fundamentally, structurally different than US. It is parliamentary, where ours is not. It has far more localized elections than in the US generally. And so forth. So how does that differ from my point that if you want to get rid of the two party system in the US, you have to change the voting or the underlying structure? I believe that, in other words, you've demonstrated my point while voicing it as a contradiction.
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I go farther. If anything, membership in a political party is a hobby outside the scope of your job. Anything and everything you do for the benefit of your hobby playmates (your party) is essentially stealing from your employer (the people). Congressfolk often forget that they represent the interests of everyone in their state or district, not just everyone in the winning party, not even just the voters or ci
Rules? In a knife fight? (Score:2)
This is politics, and Frothy is just being creative.
Dirty Trick? (Score:4)
Making robocalls, to anyone, ooooh now that's dirty. That deserves a beatin'
Long history of this in Michigan (Score:3)
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In case you still haven't noticed: Rick Santorum has proven to be more electable than Ron Paul, in the Republican party. Daily Kos has enough of a brain to realize this, and know it would be like pissing in the wind.
Except for this [brevardtimes.com].
Ummm, what? (Score:2)
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Just a thought, of co
I read (Score:2)
'terrible dirty dick' ... but maybe because of Santorum http://spreadingsantorum.com/ [spreadingsantorum.com]
Yes, it's disgusting
Primaries without party strings attached (Score:2)
I'd like to know how primary elections got co-opted by political parties as a means of selecting their party's candidate for the general election. If they want to use the public voting system for party needs, they should pay for it or stage their own party-specific election and not hold a primary at all.
In the best of all possible worlds, there wouldn't be ANY primary elections. There would be a single election with ranked preference voting and everybody gets three to choose their first, second and third
Yes, please. (Score:5, Insightful)
That will show 'em.
Re:Yes, please. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes, please. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yes, please. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Perhaps they should all vote and "write-in" Obama. If all democrats voted- and voted for Obama- he would beat the split votes the republicans gave Santorum/Romney/Newt.
As an independent - I would LOL if Obama won the Republican primary in Michigan. (I'm not a big fan of Obama or any of the existing Republican candidates).
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Operation Hilarity (Score:4, Informative)
Operation Hilarity [dailykos.com]
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I got one a couple of days ago and listened to end in the vain hope there would be an unsubscribe. The girl who made the recording was listing famous republicans who endorsed him. It was obvious at one point that she got to people she did not know as she stuggled to read some of the names.
I wish I had recorded it.
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The L's have been about letting anyone do anything to screw anyone any which way they want, for decades. I figured that out in the first L party (and last) L part meeting I attended. The only difference between the L's and the R's is that the R's want to limit this ability to screw anyone any which way they want to just the rich (via corporations).
Re:Santorum makes me sick... (Score:4, Informative)
Of course, you shouldn't be eating it.
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Obviously he shouldn't be using a petroleum based lubricant.
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That's what the conservative party of Canada is alleged to have done in over 30 ridings (districts) during the last Canadian federal election.
Yup, and in my riding too. We may have by-elections, stay tuned. It really pissed me off when the Conservatives got a majority. Among other things they're trying to fuck up the internet and expand the prison population.
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