Breaking the Codes In Oslo Terrorist's Manifesto 231
repvik writes "The 1500-page manifesto of the terrorist who killed 77 people in Oslo and on Utøya two weeks ago contains a series of seemingly encrypted URLs. There are 46 of them, and the initial part of the URLs appear to be GPS coordinates. An effort to analyze the codes have been launched."
inevitably (Score:5, Funny)
they all lead to goatse
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No, some of them lead to Rick Astley.
Also, crack the codes, win a free trip to Norway as an "expert witness" amirite?
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The guy was Norwegian. They all lead to goats.
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All URLs lead to goatse just as all Wikipedia links lead to "philosophy"
There, fixed it for you.
Obligatory xkcd (Score:2)
My chemo has worked
https://www.xkcd.com/931/ [xkcd.com]
Manifest? (Score:2)
The 1500 page manifest of terrorist
Wow, that must be a lot of terrorists if it takes a 1500 page manifest to list them all!
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Ah, but the manifest[o] was entirely in English. (Interestingly enough, I thought.)
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For generous values of "entirely".. There are a couple of "Norwegianisms", and, of course, the last two letters of the URLs we discuss here are in Cyrillic (Serbian variety).
From what I can guess, these two letters denote a number, in a variety of the Cyrillic number system.
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Meh, everyone speaks English nowadays; it's the universal language for international communication. It's actually kind of frustrating when you're trying to learn someone else's language. I was in Iceland recently, and whenever I opened my mouth to practice my Icelandic, as soon as they heard my poor beginner Icelandic, they automatically switched to English. Thus preventing me from actually getting any better at the language through practice with them. :P Essentially everyone there between ages 14 and 7
HTTP added by wordprocessor (Score:4, Interesting)
My guess is that when he entered strings like this into his wordprocessor
52.068.4.309plusf24:KWimfhh436383717863
That it interpreted the numbers as IPv4 addresses and prepended http:/// [http] onto it. If someone can verify then that part of the "mystery" is solved. It has nothing to do with URLs.
Re:HTTP added by wordprocessor (Score:5, Informative)
Good theory, so I just checked in Word. It will automatically hyperlink a DNS-looking URL, but it will not automatically hyperlink a numeric address. Also, although you don't need to type the http:/// [http] Word just applies the correct hyperlink as a style; it does not add the http:/// [http] to the text you typed.
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And another factor is that the geographic locations listed in the manifesto may just be approximate, or just pointing to a keyword that points to the real target or information source.
But it's interesting that the position in Gothenburg, Sweden points to a block containing a movie theater and the location in Vienna isn't far from the Scientologists there.
And it can also be meeting locations agreed upon for different potential contacts or mailbox drops.
Or it's just a few random locations to threw the investi
Re:HTTP added by wordprocessor (Score:4, Insightful)
More likely the code, just like the rest of the manifesto, are all just elements to feed the ego of a psychopath whose singular motivation was to ease his frustrations by inflicting pain and suffering upon as many people as possible. Everything now is about ego inflation of a homicidal maniac, about gaining further attention, about driving conspiracy theories and about forcing his frustrations upon others.
The more it drifts from reality, the reality of a sad pathetic individual suffering from a genetic birth defect that absented him from interacting normally, basically lost in a empty world devoid empathy, conscience and a whole range of human emotions, including happiness and joy. His world of frustration, driven largely by the envy of seeing normal people sharing real emotions whilst he could only ape them so that he could appear normal and gain advantage in what ever self serving schemes and plots he had going to assuage his frustrations and feed his ego.
His greatest fear, to be treated as a pathetic nothing, a victim of a genetic birth defect whose manifesto is as meaningless and empty as his life was. The manifesto being nothing but fantasy and lies to feed his ego and make him the centre of attention. The is only one lesson to be drawn from his life, the importance of testing for psychopathy in order to prevent the huge of of victims those that suffer this genetic disorder create. Those that go insane with a gun have nothing on those that gain positions in government or those that run corporations.
Why give it the time? (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the problem:
If i had a grudge against humans, or a certain set of humans, or something really stupid like that and I wanted to do something that will get me remembered, for whatever reason, in the history of man, I'd do some crap just like this. Make up a "manifesto" of probably gibberish, encyrpted and whatnot, so peeps would spend many hours of discussion and get me remembered.
So do we think we'll get a better understanding of the dude who killed those people by figuring out his stupid manifesto? And that will help his victims how exactly? I mean, i'm sure their families are probably helping figure this manifesto out and twitting it to all their friends. (yes, i'm being fucking sarcastic here).
Crazy people are, well, crazy. It doesn't matter their reason for doing stuff like killing people. That shit ain't cool, and shouldn't be going on, no matter the reason. But very little we will do, will stop the crazies from doing the crazy shit.
Sometimes there are signs, and sometime we recognize crazy before crazy gets killing. But most the time, we don't. We don't realize that crazy is just under the skin of that person we talk shit to all the time. We don't realize that everyone has crazy in them, and sometimes, the littlest things set crazy off.
Of course, i could be wrong. This murder might have the answer to life, the universe and everything in his manifesto. And even if it did, it's not worth our time trying to find out. Dude went out and killed a bunch of people to get attention for his manifesto and here people are, giving it attention.
what dude did worked, and your showing that to every wanna be "terrorist" with a grudge against something and a chip on their shoulder, that if you want attention, kill some peeps and you'll get it.
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+1.
we should not give the manifesto of a failure of humanity the time of day.
this is obvious.
w/r/t the folks trying to decode locations and messages in the document, i can only presume that they're acting with the idea that perhaps Nutzo has accomplices or has already planted bombs in those locations or etc, and are working to prevent further killing. if there's evidence in that direction, then great. but if not then it seems like maybe another case of us technically-minded folks getting obsessed with solvi
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we should not give the manifesto of a failure of humanity the time of day.
IMHO, such a document could give an insight into what went wrong here. Was the guy just crazy? Did something happen in his life that made him this way or was he going to go off the rails no matter what? Was he brainwashed by some cult? What, if anything, could have been done differently to make sure this can't happen again? I'm guessing the answer may well turn out to be "we just don't know", but I think think it deserves some analysis, in the same way that the writings of various other nutjobs from history
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ban it ?
of course not. that's both impossible and counterproductive, as you say.
you make a valid point that it's valuable to understand what went wrong with the killer.
i feel that the decoding effort at hand isn't really interested in that.
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you make a valid point that it's valuable to understand what went wrong with the killer.
i feel that the decoding effort at hand isn't really interested in that.
Probably not. A puzzle is neither good or bad, it's just a puzzle, and a puzzle exists to be solved :)
Umm... not quite. (Score:2)
A PROBLEM is there to be solved.
A puzzle is there to confuse and distract.
Sometimes, puzzles are good training for problem solving, more often than not they are simply a time-killing device.
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Having read thru parts of it, I could certainly understand the polices motives if they tried to ban it. Its a terrorism manual, and some of its a little more sophisticated than the spazzy "how to blow up bins at highschool" pap you used to see on the bbs .txt collections.
Its actually a fairly horrifying document, the guy has some seriously evil mental wiring. He's not planning just a war on muslims, he's rooting for the whole nuclear holocaust scenario, discusses in details things like anthrax attacks and u
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If i had a grudge against humans, or a certain set of humans, or something really stupid like that and I wanted to do something that will get me remembered, for whatever reason, in the history of man, I'd do some crap just like this. Make up a "manifesto" of probably gibberish, encyrpted and whatnot, so peeps would spend many hours of discussion and get me remembered.
That's sort of what Dexter [imdb.com] did, though his motivation was to mess with the investigators.
Then again, Dexter is a fictional character...
This guy probably is deluded enough to believe he was doing the world a favour, and that the world would see his writings as a sensible "way forward" now that he has set the ball in motion.
I'm sure it's perfectly sensible in his mind, if only everyone else would just listen to him.
----
I have had to deal with a family member who was eventually hospitalized with Delus
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I did notice that at many of the locations there have been a gym not far from the location.
And he has been exercising heavily in prison, so maybe those are locations of preferred gyms.
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Which is kinda bizarre since he would definitely qualify as a target under Dexter's schemes.
Know your enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
I've read some of his book. I won't finish it (not enough time in my life), but it's worth reading at least the first couple chapters and skimming the rest. It's scary to do because you'll find that it's not "incoherent ramblings" as the media tells you - quite a bit of it is eloquently written (I suspect it's stitched together from multiple sources) and presents some decent arguments. I'm pretty far to the socialist side, and he's hard-right, but I agree with some of what he's saying, even if I think the conclusion that he reaches (that it's time for Europe to rise up against the oppression of the current ideological regime) is bunk.
This tragedy isn't caused by simple Crazy. An important ingredient is Ideology. To prevent future killings in this form - lone wolf, keeping a low profile - you have to fight the ideological reasons that drive them to do such a thing.
The amount of Crazy this takes is not Batshit Insane. It's a lack of critical thinking about the flaws in their ideology, the conclusions they've reached, and the worth of the actions they will undertake; nurtured a supportive environment which will encourage his thoughts; but still enough sanity for long-term planning and preparation without raising red flags.
Police work does not find these types. Some idiots will fuck up and get caught, but there are lots of people out there who are lacking in the critical thinking department. Some will always slip through.
The way you defend against this is not to brush him off as Crazy; but rather to dive into his mind and try to understand what drove him to kill 77 people. And once you do, you, a rational thinker, need to talk with other people who may hold radical ideologies and help them to understand where the flaws in their beliefs are before the real Crazy takes hold and they start shooting.
And you can't until you let yourself really understand his ideas, rather than just getting the two sentence blurbs. Know - deeply, intellectually - your enemy.
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The Unabomber(The American terrorist most similar to this nutjob) also had a very eloquent manifesto. Doesn'tt change that he was just as fucking crazy.
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I 100% agree with what you say. And I've seen very few people sharing that view.
This is not some nutcase going batshit crazy, this is a *relatively* sane person following a (weird / ) set of logic to conclude it's the only rational thing to do.
The right thing to do is understand why he came to that conclusion, analyze where he decided that that was the only thing he could do, and then find out how to prevent that from happening in the future.
Of course, when I try to explain that concept to people (1. he's n
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One thing I do not understand about this guy, however, is why he didn't predict the backlash his actions have given. In scandinavia at least, there are a lot of eyes on the right wing, both extremist and otherwise. The political party that he attacked has had a huge surge in popularity. He must have known that his actions would not be approved by the public, so why didn't he see this?
Eusa save us (Score:2)
It's a fair time ago, but IIRC some rabble-rouser took time off from fitting kitchens to try that. And then a few hundred years later some camel-riding bandit did a similar thing. People are still arguing about what they meant, and whethe
Crazy? (Score:3)
Be very very careful with thinking this guys was 'crazy' or a 'loon' or 'insane'...
He was anything but. He was very convinced about being right, highly intelligent, well read, and well versed.
Dismissing him as a 'crazy person' is extremely dangerous, since that will never allow you to actually find out why he did this.
There are a lot of people that have the same ideas he has, a lot of them even publicly. The fact he decided to take violent action based on that idea is something to reflect on, not something
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Yes. Its funny.
This guy everthing he wanted. Cameras, and millions of people wondering about his paranoid bullshit - and some people even believing they must make a live blog on what their "analysis" of this shit is. Believe me, this thing is, including all possible codes, sorted out right now by professionals, without any additional attention.
Re:Why give it the time? (Score:5, Insightful)
The most serious error we can make is to dismiss this guy as a nut. He was not, he was a smart man who gave into a toxic ideology. I mean, he learned how to manage dangerous chemical processes in a DIY fashion, he carefully planned a lot of dangerous material acquisition, he has a coherent prose, and sadly, he made a very smart choice in the people he chose to kill.
Understanding why he chose to follow the most extreme opponents of multiculturalism is important. Right now, some people are reading his prose like a manual. We know about the streisand effect : trying to force people to not talk about something doesn't work. Right now, every sympathizer of far right ideology has read it. Understand the effect it will have, understand what to expect.
After reading it, I was convinced that it will encourage other people to act in a similar way. It is very seducing for people with the right background. Fight it by addressing the questions it poses about multiculturalism. His arguments need to be addressed and answered instead of being silenced.
Mailing list? (Score:2)
From the link:
> Send an email to manifest-analysis-request@analysis.no.net with the word "subscribe" in the body text (not subject) to participate.
I guess the good ol' Majordomo is being revived. Can't wait to see if they also setup a webring or at least put up a guestbook that I could sign!
I think I got most of it decrypted (Score:5, Funny)
B.E.S.U.R.E.T.O.D.R.I.N.K.Y.O.U.R.O.V.A.L.T.I.N.E.
and, to accommodate Slashdot's filters...
b.e.s.u.r.e.t.o.d.r.i.n.k.y.o.u.r.o.v.a.l.t.i.n.e.
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That was about as predictable as the fanboys who tag stories with "thatsnomoon".
1500 Pages? (Score:3)
I'll wait for the movie.
Too soon?
The project appears to be in good hands. (Score:3)
Looks like it's Oystein, (a.k.a. edison) in charge of the operation. He's one sharp cookie and has been in the Norweigan scene for decades. I remember how fun we he was 20 yrs ago. xD I'm sure it will be solved soon.
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Not that sharp. Anyone who can use Google will find that "Ducky" comes with some Adobe file format, not some mysterious company editing these pictures.
Lost time (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure that this will be lost time. Worse. Spending time with his manifesto is exactly the thing, the killer wants us to do. He is not worth the time and effort, his manifesto is also not worth it.
The murders were his PR campaign. Don't fall for it. I know that a "damnation memoriae" will not work, but don't help a killer with additional attention.
I don't want to know about his childhood, i am not interested in his home stories, i don't want to see his pictures or see his manifesto publicly discussed.
If you want to spend time, do it for his victims. What where their dreams, ideas, visions? Try to use your words to keep their memory alive, not some sick bastards.
Yours, Martin
Re:Lost time (Score:4, Insightful)
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As i said, i don't want a "damnatio memoriae", because it wouldn't work. I want his ideas and himself to be snubbed. Even the worst paper is to valuable to print his face upon. You can report on him without having to plaster his face in the front page, mentioning his name or quoting his manifesto. And i can promise you one thing: This would be hurting him a thousand times more than any trashing prison guards could give him. I want him to die of old age in prison, realizing nobody cares a damn about him.
If
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I am sure that this will be lost time. Worse. Spending time with his manifesto is exactly the thing, the killer wants us to do.
He wants us to read the manifesto and be swayed by his supreme understanding of how Europe and Norway are going to hell in a handbasket unless we turn Xenophobic.
He doesn't want us to read the manifesto to understand how a person could crack so completely in order to prevent it from ever happening again.
The evil deed can never be undone. The best that can be done for the victims is a resounding "never again", and become a society where no one can become this crazy and discuss their conspiracy theories on s
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He doesn't want us swayed by his supreme understanding. He wants attention and currently he is getting it :-(.
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My /. fortune with this article: "Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy."
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My /. fortune with this reply: "Learn reading before writing" ;-)
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If you want to spend time, do it for his victims. What where their dreams, ideas, visions? Try to use your words to keep their memory alive, not some sick bastards.
Well said.
I think I already broke this guy's code (Score:2)
Some excerpts from this nauseating, yet derivative, "manifesto":
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Re: I think I already broke this guy's code (Score:5, Insightful)
nauseating
The really nauseating thing is that he is, of course, exactly right about some of what's in there. That the truth is mixed up in crazy land is part of the problem with guys like this - because when they're calibrating their world view, even their irrational minds can find some confirmation of their suspicions/projections, and it happens just often enough to keep them going on the loonier stuff.
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I don't think he had a too clear idea of actual crime levels in western europe from ww2 to today nor does he seem to have any clue about the decade before fifties(or much about anything before or after that). It's pretty apparent that he didn't, for a terrorist it's kind of strange that he in that way doesn't seem to be too familiar with political groups in europe which used terror a lot from fifties to nineties. the rhetoric is just your usual lies of old people that go "young whippersnappers these days ar
Ask GeoCachers to help (Score:2)
It took 0 seconds to realize ip-numbers were out of the question and another 2 seconds to realize it could be coordinates and 5 more to see they map to urban areas.
But ask geocachers to take a look at it. They're quite good with coordinates and obfuscating them.
Since some of the locations are in the middle of the street, it would make sense that the coordinate also needs to be translated.
The Cyrillic for instance could contain information for this translation. Try adding the 0x402-0x428 to the coordinates.
Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:5, Informative)
The alleged perpetrator of the terrorist attack posted the manifesto online himself before going on his rampage, and everything in there is on the internet and people have been reading and analyzing it since.
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You're new round here, aren't you?
Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:5, Insightful)
The two choices are NOT:
1. Keep the information secret and the bad guys will never find it
2. Release the information and the bad guys will use it to do bad things
The choices ARE:
1. Keep the information secret and everyone is caught with their pants down when the bad guys, who figured all this out on their own, do bad things.
2. Tell everyone the information so that any Tom, Dick, and Harry knows what the bad guys are going to do and they can take appropriate measures.
Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:5, Informative)
Your points remind me of a fortune I read recently:
"A commercial, and in some respects a social, doubt has been started within the
last year or two, whether or not it is right to discuss so openly the security
or insecurity of locks. Many well-meaning persons suppose that the discus-
sion respecting the means for baffling the supposed safety of locks offers a
premium for dishonesty, by showing others how to be dishonest. This is a fal-
lacy. Rogues are very keen in their profession, and already know much more
than we can teach them respecting their several kinds of roguery. Rogues knew
a good deal about lockpicking long before locksmiths discussed it among them-
selves, as they have lately done. If a lock -- let it have been made in what-
ever country, or by whatever maker -- is not so inviolable as it has hitherto
been deemed to be, surely it is in the interest of *honest* persons to know
this fact, because the *dishonest* are tolerably certain to be the first to
apply the knowledge practically; and the spread of knowledge is necessary to
give fair play to those who might suffer by ignorance. It cannot be too ear-
nestly urged, that an acquaintance with real facts will, in the end, be better
for all parties."
-- Charles Tomlinson's Rudimentary Treatise on the Construction of Locks,
published around 1850
Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:5, Funny)
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I wish people still expressed themselves with such eloquence. This used to be one of the first skills taught to a young gentleman - now it is rarely taught at all.
Perhaps the problem is lack of gentlemen (and ladies).
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As a "gentleman" was someone who did not have to work for a living, I shall not mourn their passing: though actually there are plenty of idle rich in this world.
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then a gentleman?"
Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:4, Informative)
As a "gentleman" was someone who did not have to work for a living
Not true. The term has had a lot of meanings over the centuries, but the common use in the late 1800s and for the last century was related to behaviour, not to income. This usage goes back to about 1400, although other uses (e.g. implying nobility by birth or the ownership of land) were common until about the time of the industrial revolution. Most gentlemen who did have to work would have been members of the professions (as opposed to the trades - a profession largely being defined as a job suitable for a gentleman) and would have included teachers, doctors, and lawyers, for example.
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Reading that "eloquent" English slowed me down far more than reading a foreign language, and possibly even more than reading legalese. I'd hate to read such "eloquent expression" in everyday correspondence.
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Reading that "eloquent" English slowed me down far more than reading a foreign language
Really? The older style is more Latinate and a Western polyglot ought to be familiar with it.
and possibly even more than reading legalese
A small proportion of legal documents are deliberately written to confuse but the greater proportion of legal writing is clear and unambiguous. Understand:
(i) There is a handful of rules which apply to interpreting sentence structure, conjunctions, pronouns, etc., some of which may be specified in legislation (e.g. the Interpretation Acts of the UK Parliament);
(ii) Specific terms often have meanings established thro
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Is teaching by example not teaching?
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I actually mostly agree with you but there is another scenario. Keep the information secret so that the bad guys don't know that you know.
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Keep the information secret so that the bad guys don't know that you know.
Julian Assange amd Wikileaks might disagree with you on that.
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The thing people seem to forget whenever something scary happens is that some "bad guys" aren't stupid. .
FTFY..
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Crazy people will act crazy. It's not like they need a plan from someone else for that. Actually, it's more likely that they won't use it because it now seems "tainted" to them.
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Why not? Anyone who wants the information for nefarious purposes would already have it.
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You seem to be making an assumption, that the "authorities" have released this information. If I were to research that possibility, I may very well find that your apparent assumption is correct. However, when I read TFS and TFA, I see no such indications. Unless you are familiar with the author, and/or the website(s) involved, I can't see that your assumption is warranted.
What I believe has happened is, some pretty sharp people have read that manifesto, and some random people noticed what looks like an e
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The weird URLs are hidden in with the regular URLs. I never tried to click on any of the URLs, so I never even noticed it before it was mentioned here. There are spots in the manifesto where he will have a "references" section, with a list of URLs, numbered 1-26 or whatever. Only there's two #13's -- the first one is the real reference 13, and the second one is one of these weird URLs (which technically aren't URLs at all, because they don't seem to use any known addressing scheme). So they are not only obs
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I'm not questioning why the manifesto was made public, but why people would go public with the fact they may be onto hidden information contained within that manifesto.
Basically, they are crowdsourcing [wikipedia.org] with the hope that someone can solve it (you know, just in case those links turn out to be warnings that other attacks may be planned or scheduled). It's better to know this kind of thing sooner rather than later.
There are a lot of people who aren't professionals in particular fields but excel in them far beyond others. If only 1,000 people around the world give this a shot (even if only a small percentage actually excel in this type of thing) their chances of solving
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From a purely legal viewpoint, until there is a sentence he is "alleged perpetrator".
Note that (in this case) it is probably just a formality (he won't be released under bond or whatever). But it is good to use the distinction so we can remember it in other, less clear cases that arise. It will be also useful in those cases where the press shows the public lots of circunstancial evidence with just the "right" spin while forgetting of the allegations of the defense.
Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:5, Informative)
Most likely its being made public just in case this is some sort of instruction system for various cells.
I imagine the reasoning behind it is to let anyone who might be thinking of following the instructions know that they're onto the fact that there is something here.
There is also benefit to crowd sourcing it this way in that someone may have been involved and may be able to use "figuring out the code" as an excuse without incriminating themselves to come forward and help prevent whatever these codes may set into motion.
Keeping it secret and trying to solve it with limited resources isn't going to do much good. So, rather than being idiots, they've taken the logical route.
The goal here is to prevent any further atrocities. They may not catch the cells this way, but they may dissuade them from acting at all, or they may catch a guilty conscience that helps solve the whole thing for them rapidly.
If the whole point is saving lives, then I feel, as they obviously do, that this is the best way to go about it.
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Re:Why is this being made public? (Score:5, Insightful)
Considering the FBI and MI6 don't have jurisdiction in Oslo, very probably.
Also, why would terrorist cells communicate via secret text in 1,500 page manifestos? It just doesn't make any sense. Encode some data into witty photos posted on Reddit photoshop contests. Mix some in torrents. Or, gasp, talk to people. Let's be honest here, most terrorists don't communicate by massively arcane technological methods. Most just talk on forums, make phone calls, or chat through chat programs.
Anything embedded secretly in a 1500 page highly public manifesto is basically advertising intended to keep people excited and talking about the manifesto. And at that, the nutjob wins. But the idea of some form of meaningful project-based communication between terrorists happening secretly via 1500 page manifestos is ascribing a degree of power to them that I personally have trouble stomaching.
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well, which part of Breiviks stuff makes sense? just about none, the manifest just underlining how out of touch he was with realities, knights templar and all.
which is why the manifesto HAS TO BE spread widely, because it doesn't stand on it's own - because it's stupid shit, it underlines how stupid shit his strike was. If you book burn it from existence then some nutjobs could start arguing that it had some merit to it, when it doesn't. But if it wasn't available at all, it would gain a mythic aspect to it
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I don't know about MI6 but the FBI has jurisdiction everywhere.
As much as any foreign police service would have in another country: "The FBI’s jurisdiction in crimes or attacks against Americans abroad dates back to the mid-1980s, when Congress passed laws authorizing us to investigate hostage-taking and kidnappings of Americans and terrorist acts against U.S. nationals or interests overseas. Of course, we don’t go uninvited into another country—we get permission from the host government and always work with that nation’s law enforcement and [fbi.gov]
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"Speeding up their plans" is also a good thing. It's the same thing as saying, "hastily come up with a new plan and execute that instead."
The new plan likely to be far less robust than the old plan (that, obviously, has been going well enough that we haven't discovered it yet..). It exposes the bad actors to more risk of discovery and/or failure.
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Most likely its being made public just in case this is some sort of instruction system for various cells.
By that admission, the Christians running the Western governments are as dangerous as the so-called "terrorists" they demonize in Rupert Murdoch's media.
In other words, not only are Christians idiots, but easily manipulated idiots in high places with the power to influence what people do with their lives. That's why larger and larger numbers of people are seeing them for what they really are -- idiots. The party of "can't do." You can't enjoy premarital sex. Marginalize homosexuals. You can't do this, y
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While I agree with much of your sentiment you must understand why you got modded down.
That said, I agree to the extent that Christians are no different from most other religions. Most religions are bad, and I'm actually 100% on board with one particular infringement of what many consider a human right that China has attempted to instigate, which is a banning of most forms of religion.
In reality I consider it another form of human right. The right not to be brainwashed in the name of "god" or "allah" or whoe
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Most likely its being made public just in case this is some sort of instruction system for various cells.
Bullshit. Utterly uninformed, speculative, fear-mongering bullshit.
It's being "made public" because Breivik emailed his manifesto, including all of the codes, to over 1,000 people [guardian.co.uk] on the day of his attacks.
That's it. No grand plan by the government to roust other cells through the threat of code-breaking. Just a bunch of people who downloaded a copy of the manifesto just like anyone else in the world could do if they so wanted.
I'm all for a good conspiracy theory but, damn, at least do some basic researc
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cells ? what cells. you say it like it's a fact, but it's a speculation at best. sure, there may be accomplices. but "they may not catch the cells" ? what source of info are you privy to ?
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shouldn't this have been quietly handed to the police so that they don't tip their hand?
How would one go about quietly handing this kind of info to the police so, that anybody there would give rats ass about it?
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I learned a long time ago where lawyers are involved, hard work to fuck things up isn't needed.
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Even A.B.B's own lawyer has publicly (in a newspaper interview) said that this is not a case of IF his client is convinced but what the outcome of said conviction will end up involving.
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Meh. I really could care less. I happen to be norwegian, and there's no doubt that the meaning came across perfectly fine.
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The lost race of the Grammar People [blogspot.com].
Re:Cut to the chase (Score:5, Insightful)
Sheesh, don't bother going to the trouble. You've got the killer, just try a little waterboarding and save the time and money.
That is not the Norwegian way. Norwegians are a people of honor, who won't stoop to the level of the evildoers in order to fight evil. The reaction to the deed was one of sorrow, reflection and (and this is hard to understand for outsiders) love and openness instead of hatred and retaliation. In the days after the attack, the prime minister and mayor of Oslo walked around in public with less protection than before, precisely to show that the terrorist would not win by changing Norway for the worse.
In polls, Norwegians are overwhelmingly against the death penalty, torture and revenge, and more so now after the UtÃya tragedy. Norwegians want to distance themselves from everything the perpetrator stood for, and retaliate by doing the opposite of what Mr Breivik thought he would achieve.
The great majority of Norwegians want him to have the same rights as any other accused, and be judged and sentenced for what he did in a fair trial, and not risk jeopardizing justice by the police overstepping their limits. If the police can torture Mr Breivik today, they can torture you tomorrow. Punish him by exposing him to a fairness he never showed others. He will have plenty of time to reflect on how what he did hurt his cause, due to Norwegians being Norwegians, and not Americans.
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Well, except for all those calling for more gun control, even though given how methodical this ratfucker was all the gun laws in the world wouldn't have changed the outcome. Although to be fair from what I've found on the matter more calls for increased gun control seem to be coming from Sweden than Norway, which is rather amusing.
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It's sad and disgusting[1] that we Americans didn't learn the same lesson from our troubles that you Norwegians did.
[1] Especially given that the same people who want torture and more "security" are often the same ones who wharrgarbl about the USA being a Christian country, or at least call themselves Christian and make a big deal about the Constitution.
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And the police is blamed already for not preventing all this,
No, they are not. Norway is not USA or the UK. Norwegians don't expect the police to monitor dissenters, they expect society to do so - a society of which they themselves are a part.
The lack of openness and discussing radical views, thus allowing it to fester unnoticed by the public radar is getting the blame.
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