Pirate Party Banned From Social Networking Site 354
An anonymous reader writes to tell us that as the European Parliament elections loom, StudiVZ, Germany's largest social networking site, has opened up to political parties for election campaigning. That is, if you aren't the Pirate Party. "The other political parties were allowed to have a special account to show they are an organization and not an individual. The Pirate Party, however, was not allowed to have one and instead operated on a standard user account registered by an individual. StudiVZ noticed that the Pirate Party account was not a "real person" and despite it having a thriving network with hundreds of followers, it was summarily deleted. This means that it is impossible for the Pirate Party to have a presence at all on the largest social networking site in Germany."
Update: 05/02 19:17 GMT by T : Reader riot notes: "FYI: I just translated the press release to English."
Oh well (Score:4, Insightful)
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Who isn't an outlaw on a social networking site? Isn't the whole point of them to show super cool or super something? Aren't social networking sites the everyman's new way of finding fame?
Yes, I am about to get flamed by every woman on slashdot for using the term "everyman". Except this is slashdot, so ...
Re:Oh well (Score:4, Interesting)
Would you really want social networking sites to prevent the ALA from having their say because Barnes and Nobel decided that libraries are killing the publishing industry?
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Right. And *that* is why the name requires something which you apparently do not have: Humor.
While the philosophy has nothing at all to do with pirates. So ships, so stealing, no killing.
In fact we're quite the opposite of pirates. Landlubbers with computers.
Can you imagine a real pirate sitting in front of a *computer*?
In front of a pink subnotebook?
I can't.
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Firtsly, let's look at Sweden, where the whole thing began. In Sweden, there's an MPAA front called Antipiratbyrån (The Antipiracy Bureau). In response, an organization called Piratbyrån (The Piracy Bureau) was formed; as "antipiracy" apparently involved making copyright law ever harsher, lobbying against such harsher laws would have to be "antiantipiracy" - or piracy. Thus, pro-consumer IP lobbyists would logically be pi
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Considering polite society's one experiment with socially acceptable piracy [wikipedia.org] was a dismal failure, I'd say yes.
"Polite society"? (Score:3, Funny)
I thought this was about social networking sites.
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The Pirate Party aren't revolutionaries because they aren't fighting for anything in particular, just against something (which is almost as vague). In the case of the American revolution they had quite specific ideas about how things should work, not just "down with England". And actually revolutionaries also excuse themselves from polite society, so I'm not sure what your point is anyway.
Re:Oh well (Score:5, Interesting)
"The Pirate Party aren't revolutionaries because they aren't fighting for anything in particular, just against something (which is almost as vague)"
People who fought against prohibition weren't revolutionaries because they weren't fighting for anything in particular, just against something.
Your comparison does not hold up.
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The Pirate Party DOES have a political program. The Pirate Party IS figting for freedom, and the campaign for change in copyright laws is just ONE issue in their campaign.
Re:Oh well (Score:5, Informative)
You're biased. (Score:3, Funny)
You're a member of "The Ninja Party", aren't you?
Aye (Score:5, Funny)
"Aye. We just want to run for pARRRRRRlament!" No ninjas were found for comment.
What do they expect. They're the PIRATE party (Score:3, Interesting)
It does not matter what your party name is. If you have a sufficient sized following and your trying to get into power to improve your country why should you be treated any different than the rest of the political parties?
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Here's a hint: they probably don't let white supremacist or neo-Nazi parties sign up for accounts, either. Because expressing those kinds of opinions about how to "improve your country" is illegal in Germany. Which may offend American 1st-Amendment sensibilities, but given Germany's history, I can't say it's such a crazy policy.
So
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I won't argue with you, because I don't disagree. But if this is the issue with which people have a problem, then their beef is with German law and politics at a pretty deep level. Germany is much more restrictive about who gets to be a political party than, say, the US. Of course, they can point to this policy as one of the reasons their political discourse -- unlike that of the US -- isn't dominated by
Re:What do they expect. They're the PIRATE party (Score:4, Informative)
America is quite capable of outlawing political parties, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act [wikipedia.org] as an example and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_USA#History [wikipedia.org].
As a democracy if enough people wanted to be communist to amend the constitution (over 2/3rds) then the will of the people should be respected.
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but given Germany's history, I can't say it's such a crazy policy.
Um, looking at Germany's history I can say that it is not only crazy, but insane. Had Hitler not been imprisoned and seemingly "martyred" for his beliefs, he wouldn't have written Mein Kampf, and the Nazi party, unable to find a martyr to rally behind would slowly fade away (that is not to say that another dictator wouldn't have sized power, but it wouldn't have been Hitler). Same reasoning applies today (just look at the Stresint effect).
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Great. Someone with a little more tactical sense. Someone who plans campaigns based on strategy rather than astrology. Someone who might have won.
Re:What do they expect. They're the PIRATE party (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed. Henceforth, we shall stop imprisoning people who do bad things, lest they become martyrs to the cause for which they were imprisoned, thus creating a fascist movement dedicated to (murder/rape/jaywalking). Indeed, we should instead imprison those who do GOOD things, creating martyrs who will inspire virtue in the populace! And all men shall walk on the water, and swim upon the land. Huzzah!
In other news, your historical counterfactual is ridiculously overstated, as is the argument it tries to support. Look, I'm not an advocate of censorship, but I understand its appeal to Germans, who understand fascism and the cultural forces giving rise to a bit better than, I daresay, you seem to. America today is much closer to fascism than Germany, despite the wonderful (I mean that sincerely) protections for speech afforded by the US constitution.
Note also that this story is not about government censorship, but about some guys running a website that shows you ads and sells your personal information in exchange for letting you talk to your friends and post pictures of your boobs. As The Dude would say: this isn't a First Amendment thing, Walter.
Re:What do they expect. They're the PIRATE party (Score:4, Interesting)
Again, I don't disagree with you. But are you really going to stand up and defend the right of the Hutu Power guys running the radio station to broadcast the locations of Tutsi "cockraoches" to the roving machete-rape squads? And if not, then where is the line being drawn between reasonable and unreasonable censorship? Is Lou Dobbs calling for Mexican immigrant concentration camps on FOX News closer to the Hutu Power boys, or closer to Thomas Jefferson? I think it depends on context: if the US were to see an drastic upswing in hate crimes targeting immigrants, I can see how curbing that kind of incitement could be justified. Germany has a very specific context when it comes to white supremacists and neo-Nazis, obviously. I live in Canada, which has much more restrictive hate-speech laws than the US, and yet there seems to be more accountability, transparency, and free discourse up here than in the US (where I grew up), and people are much nicer to each other as well. My primary reason for opposing hate-speech laws in the US is because I know that they would be drafted and enforced to protect specific politically powerful interests, rather than marginalized groups. I really do think that this is an area where the right balance struck by the law depends a lot on context.
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Not saying that I agree with that law (I don't), but if it's the law the website must obey it.
However when the website chooses, without compulsion and of its own free will, to favour one party over another that's wrong.
Big mistake, StudiVZ! (Score:3, Funny)
Is it an officially-registered political party ? (Score:2)
Is the Pirate Party an officially-registered political party in GERMANY?
I know they've gotten press in Sweeden, but I didn't know they were active in Germany too.
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They should go to Facebook (Score:2)
They should go to Facebook, they have even added a special language option [facebook.com] just for them. English (Pirate)
Please add the tag "streisandeffect'. (Score:2)
Because there are already several other groups, I think more popped up, aand: Before this, was in none of them. Now I am in all of them. :D
WAIT A MINUTE! (Score:5, Informative)
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Relax it's all about letter rationing (Score:3, Funny)
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But, I didn't see anyone saying anything about chains resting lightly on anyone. *tries to find it*
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Wrong God-. You're looking for Godwin, not Goddard. Unless you know something I don't know and there is some sort of Goddard's law and you're making a subtle pun I don't get... Oh no, my mind is crumbling, someone may or may not have made a pun I don't get!
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In the US, we have an institutionalized two-party system that has acted to make it nearly impossible for a third party to gain major influence; the party registration and ballot rules help ensure it. The same kind of thing happens elsewhere.
What I wonder, is if the Pirate Party in Germany has actually fulfilled the regulatory requirements for being recognized as an official political party.
Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Informative)
Officially registered pirate parties exist in Spain, Austria, Germany and Poland, while those in the USA, United Kingdom, Argentina, Finland, and Australia are currently unregistered, but active.
They have actually run for a state election in Germany, although only receiving .3% of the votes. It is possible the social networking site is unaware that the Pirate Party is an actual party: nothing I saw in the article indicates otherwise. It is also possible that the company is unaware of what's going on, and the entire situation got lost in bureaucracy. It was likely just some support person who deleted the account for violating the terms of service.
For the most part I agree with the platform of the Pirate Party, but it gives the impression that their primary purpose for existing is to support piracy of songs, software and movies, which I don't support. Their marketing department could probably use some work.
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A reactionary party that goes to the opposite extreme is as bad as the original evil. If you want to change copyright, you are going to need at least some of those pro-copyright lawmakers to help you (unless you can completely take over the legislature, which if
Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not helpful. It makes your party look like a bunch of nutcase radicals. Think of ELF: it is true that taking care of the environment is good, but setting fires and destroying property as a way to get your point across doesn't help at all.
Whenever laws are unjust, about the only way to change them is through "radical" ideas. Just look at blacks in America after the civil war, they sought to maintain the old order of things in the south and nothing really was done that improved the lives of black Americans, until the civil rights movement where a few "radicals" were needed to bring about change. Same thing with copyright. And no one is going to have any property burned or lives lost with the abolition of copyright, save for perhaps the publishers who were on the way out anyways and served no real purpose.
A reactionary party that goes to the opposite extreme is as bad as the original evil. If you want to change copyright, you are going to need at least some of those pro-copyright lawmakers to help you (unless you can completely take over the legislature, which if that is your goal, looking like a nutcase radical won't help you much either). To get those lawmakers on your side, you're going to come up with something reasonable.
But if the Pirate Party can get enough seats, it would prove that many people do care about copyright and the end result would be copyright is weakened or at least not strengthened. If you have a small to medium amount of people who are willing to shoot down any proposed legislation that strengthens or doesn't weaken copyright, you will have no choice but to try to work with them or face many, many, many angry letters/calls/e-mails.
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primary purpose for existing is to support piracy of songs, software and movies, which I don't support.
You are right, your bias was clear at the start. Except you weren't applying at the start.
It isn't. It is fair for authors to be compensated for their work. Having to pay $6 for a movie that cost millions to create is not completely unjust.
Copyright is not the only way to pay for creation - your bias prevents you from distinguishing between the two. Copyright has just become the default because it has been an easy crutch to rely on. Until the internet became widespread that is.
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It is fair for authors to be compensated for their work.
The purpose of copyright isn't to compensate authors. It exists to encourage more works to be written. If it's not doing this very well (it's not), it needs to go.
Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Informative)
The Pirate Party is hardly a 'fake' political party. It has a well developed platform including protecting privacy (on and off the internet), copyright reform, and patent reform. In the 2006 elections in Sweden it recieved 34,918 less than 9 months after it was founded, making it the 10th largest (out of 40) political party in the election.
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What is this strange >2-party-system that you seem to be explaining? How can one possibly know how to vote if the candidates don't have one of only two letters next to their name?
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Maybe a link to the US pirate party platform [pirate-party.us] would be helpful for those who are incapable of googling.
Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Insightful)
Strangely, the soon-to-be second largest party in Sweden, Piratpartiet, seems to disagree with you. Why are you against free culture?
Maybe you say that culture isn't free to produce. We know that; it's you who are stupid. Why are you against free culture?
Because filesharing is stealing? No, it isn't. Why are you against free culture?
Because the ones producing content have to be paid? No, they don't have to be paid. Why are you against free culture?
But then no content will be produced? No, that is a lie. Why are you against free culture?
Because you like putting annoying kids in jail. OK, I can't argue with you there, but it's a quite expensive solution.
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What is this nonsense about being against free culture? What do you mean by free culture? Being able to hear a song or watch a movie for free, regardless of the desires of the moviemaker, is not free culture, it's free stuff. Especially since the prices are quite reasonable.
Also, what is with the mantra crap?
There's plenty of free media, and you can make more. You and your Pirate buddies can go enjoy free culture all you want.
But that's not it. You just want free stuff.
Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Informative)
I can't speak for our German sister party, but as a member of the Swedish pirate party, I can assure you that the Pirate Party is not a fake party.
It's a party that has developed and gained support due to the increasingly anti-democratic attitude of our elected parliamentarians. Last year, parliament voted for a law giving a government institution the right to wiretap all international telecommunications traffic without warrant, suspicion and with minimal public insight. This year the IPRED directive was implemented with the added bonus (for record executives) that private corporations could go to court on their own (and not through the police as is common practice) to request information from ISPs on who was using a specific IP at a specific time. I'm sure you haven't missed ACTA if you've read /. with any regularity. The data retention directive will be implemented in Sweden this fall.
The Pirate Party is against all this. While the party is also of the opinion that non-commercial file-sharing of copyrighted works should be legalized, this is really sort of secondary. In order to enforce a ban on filesharing, you have to implement a totalitarian state that can monitor what every person does all the time. This is in our opinion NOT acceptable.
And many agree with us. In the first poll for the upcoming European Parliament elections, we got 5.1% of the vote, enough to grab one seat, with the Pirate Party not even being an alternative presented by the pollsters, and we are now the fourth, soon the third largest party in Sweden with over 42,000 members.
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"While the party is also of the opinion that non-commercial file-sharing of copyrighted works should be legalized"
I dont think the party even stands for this comment.
It's unequivocally stated in the party principles. Commercial use five years, all non-commercial use to be made legal. I doubt that every member agrees with everything, but they don't in other parties either. What the GP said is the official party line.
Re:I'm sure... (Score:4, Insightful)
You may not value their ideas as much as they do, but that is certainly no ground for asserting that they are not a "real" (whatever that's supposed to mean in this context...) political party.
I could assert that Socialist parties are not "real" parties because "It's just a bunch of people that want to live off the system for free, regardless of any other consequences", but I would be terribly unjustified in doing so.
Re:I'm sure... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is easy to belittle those with viewpoints different then yours. Are you from the US? Are you a member of either of the major parties? What jokes - the "we just want to tax and spend like crazy and limit personal freedoms" party VS the "we just want to have ZERO taxes and totally dismantle all forms of government" party. I would say they are as fake as they come.
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It's a real political party.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:4, Informative)
But I'm an asshole I guess, as I have also never seen the problem with an apartment not renting to people with kids, or restaurants not seating kids, but that is illegal.
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The rule is that if a media outlet is offering time to a particular candidate for a particular office, then other candidates for the same office should be able to get the same deal.
This is only relevant to media subject to FCC regulation. Which, in general, does not include the Internet.
But in any case, it's quite easy to get around the Equal Time Rule by doing everything as a newscast.
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I'm pretty sure being a member of the communist party is still acceptable discrimination if you are a resident alien seeking citizenship, applying to government related jobs, etc. in the US. My wife, formerly a Chinese citizen, was asked this several times by officials and in official documents.
I'm not really sure what we have is necessarily that altruistic.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Interesting)
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So if you're a bar, you can't refuse admittance to a 9-year-old, and refuse to sell them an alcoholic drink that they're too young to safely imbibe? On the basis of age discrimination being illegal?
Oh, by the way... political beliefs and political party associations aren't in that list!
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Who fucking cares if there are 1000 social networking sites if the social groups (or majority of) you intend to communicate with are only on the 1 you are banned from?
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Insightful)
Will you delete a site that /does/ meet the guidelines, but you have a /personal/ grudge against?
That's whats going on here.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's a private website. It is the website's call if they want to ban pirates or ninjas.
And it is our call if we want to take them to task for it. This freedom of speech thing works both ways.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Interesting)
I think there's a difference between a member doing something against the TOS and a member that you don't like, or have been told to not like. This, to me, is a political deletion, has nothing to do with getting rid of bad members.
I'd hazard a guess that your site isn't thriving if you can't tell the difference between a personal dislike and someone breaking the rules of your site. Where I live, if this happened, the site owners would find themselves infront of the ACMA quicker than you can say "politically unjust act".
Yes, you are an "asshole" as you said, but you're also an idiot too... but they usually go hand in hand.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Interesting)
It depends on what the political contribution laws are in the said country. Once a company starts allowing some political parties their services for free while banning them to others (like the Pirate Party which is a registered political party in Germany IIRC), that might be seen as an endorsement or contribution and could be in violation of some laws dealing with political contributions.
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or maybe sick of antisocial kids screaming and shouting in restaurants?
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How is that any different from being "sick of antisocial blacks screaming and shouting in movie theaters"? Do you think your personal prejudices justify legal/commercial discrimination?
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sorry, maybe I misunderstand your comment, so let me make sure: are you seriously comparing the account deletion policy on a social networking site to the Nazis?
Well the first thing the National Socialists did when they came to power was shutdown all the Christian Democrat and Socialist newspapers and arrest their party leaders.
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Well the first thing the National Socialists did when they came to power was shutdown all the Christian Democrat and Socialist newspapers and arrest their party leaders.
So when this private social networking site takes over Germany and shuts down the Pirate Party, you'll have a valid comparison.
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Sorry, maybe I misunderstand your comment, so let me make sure: are you seriously comparing the account deletion policy on a social networking site to the Nazis? Please tell me I've misunderstood. Please.
Also (and I almost forgot), by not mentioning Nazi's by name he also includes the DDR (East Germany) who basically did the same thing to non-communist political parties.
There are plenty of people alive the lived under them and remember a time when openly joining a political party other than the Communists m
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:4, Funny)
Dude, totally! And like, someday Germans will get to tell their kid about how joining a party other than the officially sanctioned ones could, like, totally result in not being able to get your Facebook feed updated with official party event invitations! You could only get invitations to events from some other person setting up a non-official facebook group for the party, which meant you wouldn't get the little blue background bar invites in your facebook feed! And sometimes the javascript didn't work right to update your Twitters, so you'd totally have to get it sent to email instead! Dark times, dude, dark times.
I'm sorry, but: do you really not feel that these comparisons are maybe just a little bit silly?
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Interesting)
the lockout of the pirate party is just a small puzzlepiece of opposition-oppression, but all in all - yes - we are headding for the fourth reich...
exactly like Nazism (Score:3, Insightful)
First, they came for the tweeters but I did not complain because I was not on twitter. Then they came for the facebookers but I didn't speak up because I didn't have a facebook account. Then they came for the myspace douchebags but I didn't speak out because I wasn't on myspace. When they came for the slashdotters, there was noone left to speak up for me.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:5, Funny)
Oh yeah, its a really short step from the denial of internet access to wholesale slaughter and genocide.
Re:Zeitgeist (Score:4, Insightful)
[...] it's really the first step from the denial of free speech to wholesale slaughter and genocide.
There. Fixed that for ya.
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Oh yeah, it's a really short step from having the newspapers edited to wholesale slaughter and genocide. Er, wait... What were we talking about again? I can't seem to find any reference to it.
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Doesn't he always? (Score:3, Funny)
God is dead! -- Nietzsche
Nietzsche is dead! -- God
Cheers,
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That's not the end of it. Those goddamn Nazis running the German government have also banned the National Socialist Party.
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Congrats on a fast but subtle Godwining
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Second, this particular "victim" has perhaps the largest-trafficed site in the world. They don't need any help.
Pirate Party != The Pirate Bay
Especially true when speaking of the German Pirate Party. The Swedish Pirate Party has a slightly closer association.
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First, yes they can do whatever they want, as long as it is legal.
Second, you are mixing up the Pirate Bay with the Pirate Party. Two very different things. Also, the Pirate Party in TFA is the German Pirate Party, which is very different from all other Pirate Parties in other countries.
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Third, democracy is perhaps one of the dumbest actual concepts in practice. Why the hell sholud my vote on 90% of topics count equal to someone expert in the particular field. I've got my expertise, where my vote should count more than the average joe, and my ignorances where my vote should count way less.
And who gets to make the determination that your vote/say (whether or a particularly narrow topic or just in general) is any better than someone else's? It's a classic chicken/egg sce
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Who gets to make the determination? How about a minimum level of determination? Like when I vote, in order for my vote to be counted, I need to know the name of the person for whom I'm voting, and their position on three key issues -- you know, the types of things that htey state forty times in every speech. Something, anything, to prove that I'm not just ticking off a random name. And maybe, just maybe, I should have to do it for at least one other candidate.
But to say that a system is good because it
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Democracy's a bit like Wikipedia: the most obsessive win.
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The problem is that people treat democracy as if it is virtuous, rather than accepting it because it does the least to restrict liberty.
I mean, a 9/10 vote to do something stupid still ends in doing something stupid.
Re:Oh boo hoo (Score:5, Insightful)
The purpose of Democracy is two fold.
1. To reduce civil wars.
2. To force the government to at least TRY an pay attention to the nees of people besides those directly in power.
First, if you have enough men to fairly win a civil, then you should have enough men to win an election - with much less casualties. In other forms of government, you might have 90% of the population hating the leader, but without democracy the only way to remove them is to fight and die.
Second, a democracy requires the government to consider what everyone else thinks. In most other forms of government, who )(*&@ cares what the peasants thinks.
P.S. There is a third benefit that happens often, but not all the times. Democracies usually have voting fairly often, so it speeds up the process of removing the incompetent, as compared to many other forms. But this is not always the case.
Re:Oh boo hoo (Score:5, Insightful)
But that's precisely my point. I don't care what peasants think -- especially when I'm a peasant. Democracy doesn't force government to consider the needs o the people, it forces government to consider the vote of the people.
So if someone has an actually good idea, but it requires, oh, I don't know, a grade ten education to understand, then it can never happen because people won't vote for it because they don't understand it.
So then you start electing people who sound intelligent, not people who actually are intelligent. Those two tend to be inversely proportional.
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First, private company can do what it wants -- I own three.
Right, but if you behave in such a way that other people find offensive they are allowed to bitch about it. Freedom of speech works both ways.
I mean if you posted offensive or intolerant views on your websites (like say you have proof that Windows is better than Linux), don't people have a right to write make their own websites, blogs, and petition Slashdot on the topic?
Either the German site can either put up with the criticism or let them on their
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Really? I thought they were "well affiliated". Or at least mutually supported.
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They have banned the Scientologists too, which is good btw.
What are you saying? That someone can't believe in Scientology? The arguments against Scientology are Not whether someone can believe in whatever L. Ron Hubbard came up with, but rather are they really a non-profit religion, and then criticising the censorship within Scientology. By banning them, you effectively become them in your censorship of belief.
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They weren't banned. They just had their tax-exempt status revoked.
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Do YOU know why your neighbor is coughing? DO YOU???
Pubic hair caught in her throat?