China's New Internet Plan

eldavojohn writes "The internet in China is diverging rapidly from the state that the rest of the world enjoys it. Recent news of China's leader, Hu Jintao, has revealed a strategy to distort it even further. Jintao is tackling the issue his Communist party is having with the youth of China that are too young to remember Chairman Mao and the fanaticism the populace had for him. A strategy he is proposing is 'cleaning up' China's internet & lacing it with a little propaganda like the need to 'Consolidate the guiding status of Marxism in the ideological sphere' online. The meeting notes also declared that 'Development and administration of Internet culture must stick to the direction of socialist advanced culture, adhere to correct propaganda guidance.'"

Echoes of 1936

[Billosaur]

The Communist Party is preparing for a congress later this year that is set to give Hu another five-year term and open the way for him to choose eventual successors. In 2008, Beijing hosts the Olympic Games, when the party's economic achievements will be on display, along with its political and media controls.

The parallels to the Olympics of 1936 are kind of eerie -- then it was Hitler attempting to show off German might and industry, his neat and orderly Aryan society, and the superiority of the German race. Perhaps this is not as sinister, but it is certainly disturbing.

Re:

[Zarhan]

The parallels to the Olympics of 1936 are kind of eerie -- then it was Hitler attempting to show off German might and industry, his neat and orderly Aryan society, and the superiority of the German race. Perhaps this is not as sinister, but it is certainly disturbing.

So who's going to be the Jesse Owens of 2008?

Re:

[Aminion]

So who's going to be the Jesse Owens of 2008?

Hopefully a Tibetan guy/girl.

Re:

[bladesjester]

Or someone from Taiwan...

Re:

[DeadChobi]

Ahh, Jesse Owens. Clearly a fine exemplar of the Aryan race... OH SNAP!

Re:

[Oktober Sunset]

I don't recall the Chinese claiming to be any kind of master race, so some guy beating them at running really isn't going to bother them that much. I guess getting whipped at gymnastics might annoy the people who came up with the whole gymnastics boot camp thing, but it's really not going to piss on their whole ideology like Jesse Owen did the the Nazis.

Re:

[Oktober Sunset]

I should really have said the Chinese government. The Chinese people may be pretty racist but the Chinese communist party doesn't have any kind of racist ideology like the Nazi party did, the USA in the 30's would probably be a closer parallel.

Re:

[tzhuge]

Try a Google search on:
"Racism in France". Eye-opening. The French strike me as pretty f'ing racist.
"Racism in Italy". Eye-opening. Italians strike me as pretty f'ing racist.
"Racism in USA". Eye-opening. Americans strike me as pretty f'ing racist.
"Racism in England". Eye-opening. The English strike me as pretty f'ing racist.
"Racism in Israel". Eye-opening. Jews strike me as pretty f'ing racist.

It seems that the hypocrisy of a comment that associates an entire ethnic group with racism is lost on /.

Re: Echoes of 1936

[Gospodin]

Silly to draw any conclusions from two datapoints, but: Nazi Germany hosted the Olympics in 1936, and by the 1948 Olympics they were no more. Soviet Russia hosted the Olympics in 1980, and by the 1992 Olympics they were gone. Now Red China is hosting in 2008. Any predictions for 2020?

Re:

[moore.dustin]

We (USA) hosted it in 1996... any predictions for the next 18 months?

Re:

[Gospodin]

We (USA) hosted it in 1996... any predictions for the next 18 months?

Ah, but we also hosted in 1984, and the only thing that happened 12 years later was another Olympics. We didn't even get the sort of regime change that happens every 4 or 8 years here. :)

Re: Echoes of 1936

[Chandon Seldon]

We didn't even get the sort of regime change that happens every 4 or 8 years here.

In a real regime change, the creeping plague of bureaucracy is reset.

What can really be done about this?

[zappepcs]

I do not buy anything made in China. Its not easy to find out what parts of a laptop of computer are made in China, so my plan isn't foolproof, but it's what I know that I can do to stop support for the Chinese government.

What else can people do? Ideas?

Re:What can really be done about this?

[TheLazySci-FiAuthor]

We can bring democracy to them - works every time!

Re:What can really be done about this?

[giorgiofr]

Erm, you're only stopping support for Chinese manufacturers, I'm afraid. Their gov't is totally unintersted in your actions. If what you're thinking about goes along the lines of stopping support for their industries so that the people will rebel against a gov't that, by alienating foreigners, takes their livelihood away: remember that China will shortly be a self-substaining market.
I believe there is no way to make the Chinese gov't change their mind. Only the peoples of China can choose to get rid of it, and apparently they're not really that keen on doing so.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:What can really be done about this?

[grumpyman]

. Only the peoples of China can choose to get rid of it, and apparently they're not really that keen on doing so.

How do you know that they're not really keen? You need another 1989 to prove that they're keen?

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[CastrTroy]

How do you know that stuff you buy isn't made using stuff made in China? Plus I'm not sure if it's possible to live like a normal person in society without somehow supporting china. You buy a drink from McDonald's, the cup is probably made in China. You can try to reduce it, but I don't think you're going to get very far.

Re:

[Opportunist]

I remember George Carlin coming on stage waving a flag of (I think) Japan and saying "I wave this flag for the reason that it was the only one I could find that was made in the USA".

I find it kinda bizarre to buy a US flag only to find out that it's made in China. No kidding, I still have it as proof.

Re:

[jez9999]

I find it kinda bizarre to buy a US flag only to find out that it's made in China ... not. Most of your fabrics (clothes) are manufactured there; why would a flag be any different? Seriously, it's moronic to think you're making some kind of a political statement to say that your flag needs to be manufactured in your country. It doesn't mean you can't still wave it just as patriotically.

Re:

[Opportunist]

So it's patriotic to support the economy of a (possible) competing country for the world market?

Re:What can really be done about this?

[SQL Error]

Buy stuff made in Taiwan. There's plenty of it, it's cheap, usually good, and it'll piss off the Chinese.

Except that a growing number of Taiwanese companies have factories on the mainland these days...

Re:

[orzetto]

Buy stuff made in Taiwan. There's plenty of it, it's cheap, usually good, and it'll piss off the Chinese.

Except that, for very interesting and intricate historical reasons [wikipedia.org], both the ROC and the PRC mark their products as "made in China", as both governments (at least formally) consider themselves the government of both mainland and Taiwan. I would not be surprised if the ROC had a law to ensure that producers use "Made in China" instead of "Made in Taiwan", this used to be a hot political issue.

Re:

[vidarh]

Funny how I've bought lots of stuff over the years that says "Made in Taiwan" then...

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[Harmonious Botch]

I do not buy anything made in China. Its not easy to find out what parts of a laptop of computer are made in China, so my plan isn't foolproof, but it's what I know that I can do to stop support for the Chinese government.

What else can people do? Ideas?

My idea is that you do exactly the opposite. Buy stuff that is made in China. This encourages the development of a capitalistic middle class.
It helps develop a group of Chinese people who know more about the west than their government tells them ( they have to learn about their markets ) and who work with private banks ( they have to when they do large scale business in the west ) and who like private property.

In other words, it encourages the growth of a group of people whose values and beliefs are

Re:

[jaysones]

If you don't like Best By you can always try Sircuit Sity.

Re:

[turbidostato]

"it is a strong level of pressure against a government and would be exceptionally bad for a country who's economy relies so strongly on trade and manufacturing such as China."

It surely would force China government to drastically change their economic plans but don't fool yourself: you just *can't* boicott the economy of a country with 1200 million people the wide China is. They could just close their borders for forty years and they even wouldn't notice (not to say they haven't more opportunities opening t

Status Quo

[FooGoo]

This sounds like every other government/corporate plan to me so it's governance/business as usual. When will goverments and corps realize that the internet doesn't belong to them. It belongs to the users we just allow them to use it and profit from it if we so desire. If you can't compete on your own merits as a company, ideology, or political system this is not the place for you.
FG

You forget

[d3ac0n]

That communism isn't about competition. Communism is about eliminating all competing ideas and asserting absolute control over every aspect of life. The communist leaders understand perfectly well about the "competition of ideas". They also know they can't compete because communism is a failed ideology. Thusly they seek to control access to information and keep their people in the dark. It's typical totalitarianism.

(To the commie trolls: Yes, I KNOW that's not how communism and socialism is supposed t

Re:

[AltGrendel]

That has got to be one of the most insightful things I've read on /. in ages.

Human Nature

[Mateo_LeFou]

I don't think I'm a commie troll, but I think that at least part of your objection applies to capitalist systems as well.

If I were playing devil's advocate I might say "capitalism cannot possibly work the way its designers envisioned because they didn't take corporate nature into account." For example, there is a tendency in corporocracy to treat *everything as a transaction and *everything as property (see for example "intellectual property", the privatization of drinking water, etc).

I think the fact that corporations have co-opted our ostensibly democratic government so thoroughly is almost as serious an indictment of capitalism as the corrupted Party's betrayal of basic democratic principles in the Reddish parts of the world.

Just thinking aloud, really.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

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[vidarh]

Capitalism isn't "designed", it's a consequence of free markets.

Funny you should phrase it that way. It is very much a central tenet of Marxism that communism isn't "designed", it's an inevitable consequence of class struggle, and more directly of capitalism.

Re:Human Nature

[Red Flayer]

follows capitalism, in which people who work hard and make good choices are rewarded while the lazy and stupid are not.

That's not an accurate description of capitalism at all. Capitalism doesn't reward those who work hard; it rewards those who have money to work hard for them. Capitalism doesn't reward those who make good choices, it rewards those who make choices that are good within a restricted value set. That value set includes wealth accumulation, which is of debateable value. It's a tautology to say that capitalism rewards those who make good choices, since the choices you are referring to are only 'good' because of the capitalist system they are made in.

True communism, for example, rewards those who work hard and make good choices as well. How? Their society benefits, so the individual does as well. Marxist Communism also rewards those who work hard and make good choices -- the difference being that choices are made by a group, rather than an individual.

I don't think you'll ever be able to grasp the concept of Communism until you let go of the primacy of personal wealth accumulation. For example,

"class struggle" (code for wealth envy)

Class struggle isn't about wealth envy, it's about self-determinism. In a pure capitalist society, wealth outweighs or defines all other factors of self-determinism (education, access to influence, etc).

Sometimes the lazy and stupid wind up rich (think about the rich liberal living-on-trust-fund brat denizens of the Hamptons)

What about the rich conservative living-on-trust-fund brat denizens of Houston? Your bias is very clear, and subtracts from your logic.

Capitalism isn't designed to cure all problems. It's merely that which exists without government intervention,

Not so. Cooperation (the basis of communism) happens without government intervention -- capitalism is a system dependent upon a stable money supply, which does not exist without government interference. One could say that totalitarianism is what is most likely to happen without government intervention -- but then at what point is the totalitarian become the government?

government intervention, which always creates more problems than it solves (and it never solves anything).

Well, that's just wrong, as most absolutes are. It's a pithy saying based on faith that has few foundations in fact or in theory. Government intervention can solve the tragedy of the commons, for example. Sure, governments can (and often do!) intervene poorly, but that's a matter of execution, not of a theoretical impossibility of positive interference. If you reduce government to its most basic level (that of the family), would you still argue that interference by the decision-makers cannot solve problems?

By the way, did Marx ever define what a "class" was?

Yes, he did -- and the tendency for those not to have studied what he wrote is to not be able to make sense of his class distinctions, since they are not defined by wealth, as classes are defined under capitalism. Instead they are defined by their relationship to the means of production. Here's a primer for you [answers.com], so you can get a basic view of how the "middle class" fits into Marxist theory.

I'm not a communist, but I think it's important to understand the communist point of view if I want to have a meaningful discussion of capitalism. It's also important to understand basic theories of government, and the differences between economic systems from political systems, as well as how they interrelate.

Re:

[Jasin Natael]

True communism, for example, rewards those who work hard and make good choices as well. How?

Communism does not reward the industrious and intelligent relative to their peers, which is not only how the human mind works anyway, it is the only thing that demonstrably produces industry. Otherwise, everyone is a freeloader, and nobody works. Period. It doesn't matter what you claim your ideology is, why would you put up with the disutility of labor to receive the same benefit in return, as those who did not

Re:

[cgenman]

Capitalism doesn't come from "class struggle". Rather, "class struggle" (code for wealth envy) follows capitalism, in which people who work hard and make good choices are rewarded while the lazy and stupid are not.

And how many businesses, exactly, has George Bush run that were profitable? I've seen studies quoted where less than 2% of people make it out of their class distinction within any given generation, which means that by far the best way to be rich is to be born rich. Of course, this should be obvi

Mod Parent Up

[Jasin Natael]

I wish I could put a <blink> tag in there.

Re:

[AlphaWolf_HK]

Nobody designed capitalism. Capitalism more or less happened as people felt the need for certain things like e.g. money. I tend to think of as being the more civilized cousin of natural selection. Natural selection doesn't guarantee you a better species, nor a perfect one. But it does move in the direction of providing the fittest. Likewise, capitalism doesn't guarantee the best outcome or the best products. It does however move rapidly into the direction that the society as a whole chooses. In the course o

Re:

[AnyoneEB]

I was just talking about capitalism vs. communism with a friend the other day and he pointed out an amusing point of view: in communism, the government controls everything, only the government has to get corrupt for everything to go bad; in capitalism, the power is shared among the government and various corporations, sometimes the work together, but sometimes they work against each other, so they are a bit less effective at making trouble for the populace.-

Re:

[Lord Ender]

Are there any capitalist states in the developed world? It seems that they are all socialist.

Re:

[vertinox]

The problem is that in practice it cannot possibly work the way it's designers envisioned it because they didn't take human nature into account.

I would beg to differ. Communism worked under Stalin.

If you execute thousands of people and sends millions off to gulags on a yearly basis, then Communism works as Stalin intended and can basically overcome anything capitalism throws at it. They went from a backwards medieval agricultural country to a technological/industrial super power in less than 20 years.

Of cou

Re:

[Red Flayer]

So let's stop calling it communism-with-a-small-c, and call a spade a spade: Totalitarian China. Or maybe Fascist China?

If that's a little too far, then we should make the distinction between communism and the Communist Party Government of China -- we shouldn't allow the Chinese to pretend they are something they are not (and in the same vein, we should stop referring to the US as a democracy). Labels have power, and the Chinese political machine knows it.

Re:

[HUADPE]

China makes an interesting case, but it's pretty clearly an internet connected local network. This is akin to many corporations and schools who route all traffic through a central hub before putting it on the internet. China is just much...bigger. When they stop using the accepted transmission control protocol/internet protocol, or if they set up their own DNS servers then we can talk about them ceasing to be a part of the internet

Not trying to make it sound bengin though, this network administrator is

Re:

[Red Flayer]

When will goverments and corps realize that the internet doesn't belong to them.

When they are forced to admit it at gunpoint.

Seriously, the persepctive of modern corporations and governments is that there is no such thing as public property in the traditional sense -- everything has to be owned by someone. Government ownership != public ownership anymore (if it ever did).

If you can't compete on your own merits as a company, ideology, or political system this is not the place for you.

Well, if they can le

Great firewall of China

[giorgiofr]

I know it's not really what the TFB is about, but does anyone have any tech details about the Great Firewall of China? How does it work, is it some kind of giant NAT? Are there blacklist-based IP filtering, real-time content filtering? Are ISPs routes set up so that foreign IPs can only be reached via a few select routers that do the censoring?

Re:Great firewall of China

[sharp-bang]

Wikipedia is your friend [wikipedia.org] YMMV. ;-)

I remember the part about circumventing blocking by ignoring the reset packets being publicized about a year ago. Dunno if it was ever fixed, though.

Re:Great firewall of China

[Dogtanian]

Wikipedia is your friend

Wikipedia is not your friend. It's only pretending to be so that it can play with your shiny new Playstation 3.

Next week: We reveal that Digg doesn't really love you, and is just using you for sex.

Re:

[Turn-X Alphonse]

And slashdot mod this informative?

We're either good at modding stuff and have an okay system, or we're the tribal tribe of digg, where we think our shit don't smell.

Re:

[gad_zuki!]

The wikipedia is absolutely not your friend. The last issue of 2600 had the best technical analysis of the 'great firewall' I've read. The wiki article is pretty slim on information and facts. It reads like a general 'how things can be blocked' article.

Re:

[thewils]

If there's content that is being blocked by the GFOC, how about a concerted effort by webmasters of sites that aren't currently blocked to provide a webring of sorts to each carry some blocked content.

I'm sure this sort of thing can be organized over the net in time for - say the Beijing Olympics, when the Chinese will have world focus, and lots of other things on their hands at the same time.

Just a thought. It would need a website where you could sign up to either provide or host some content (just a page

Marketing is the key

[sharp-bang]

"Consolidate the guiding status of Marxism in the ideological sphere"

"Development and administration of Internet culture must stick to the direction of socialist advanced culture, adhere to correct propaganda guidance"

"Internet cultural units must conscientiously take on the responsibility of encouraging development of a system of core socialist values"

Boy, does that Politburo know how to turn a phrase. I know I'm inspired.

And what, exactly, is an "Internet cultural unit"?

Re:

[GCP]

And what, exactly, is an "Internet cultural unit"?

It appears that this is Marxist political terminology for, um, Slashdot.

"... must conscientiously take on the responsibility of encouraging development of a system of core socialist values"

Re:

[mi]

Boy, does that Politburo know how to turn a phrase. I know I'm inspired.

Of course they do. Its easy — just look around this very forum, where a dozens of morons are already posting "insightful" comments on how America's evil corporationy corporations are controlling our minds just as bad as Chinese totalitarians are trying to control their subjects'.

All, they know about Communism, they learned from "Motorcyle Diaries" and other scumbag-romanticizing crap like that...

Re:

[sharp-bang]

True enough. Of course, capitalism is known less for its rhetoric than for its fruits. It'll be interesting to see how the Powers That Be in China spin this idea of "permanent revolution" to a generation that wants iPods.

Why cant they simply write a book ?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

In China the communist party wants to woo another generation with the story of how the revolution was made. Why cant they hire the guy who wrote "How StarWars was made" to write another book "How the Revolution was made".? If there is one thing Chinese communists really like it would be Force, I guess.

In the meantime

[iamacat]

US announced sweeping controls of radiowaves whereby an oligarchy of a dozen media companies will promptly fire anyone who contradicts the official culture by quoting a best selling rap singer.

Re:

[mi]

So long as the quoted singer remains free and best-selling (along with fierce government critics like Michael Moore), things aren't so bad here, are they?

P.J. O'Rourke said it best

[cascadingstylesheet]

US announced sweeping controls of radiowaves whereby an oligarchy of a dozen media companies will promptly fire anyone who contradicts the official culture by quoting a best selling rap singer.

If you really can't see the difference, then I'm not sure what to say to you.

P.J. O'Rourke is a bit harsh (I would choose a different last word for the quote) but he's pithy:

"Life is full of ironies for the stupid".

Marxism?!

[Aminion]

Now that China is rapidly transforming into a market economy, what Marxism is there to speak of? Or maybe the good chairman wishes to enlighted the Chinese youth of the crimes of communism in China and atrocities committed by his predecessors? It would be a great lesson in how a fundamentally flawed ideology can retard a nation with great potential for decades and decades.

Re:

[DeepHurtn!]

How much Marx have you read? Marxism is primarily a critical and descriptive apparatus, rather than a prescriptive one. A great deal of very interesting and valuable work has been inspired by and built upon the Marxist tradition. To dismiss the whole shebang as a "fundamentally flawed ideology" is deeply misguided.

I'm certainly not trying to defend the Chinese government here, but it's interesting to see how decades of American Cold War propaganda continues to circulate.

Re:

[Oktober Sunset]

I find the Chinese talking about Marxism to be quite amusing, seeing as they have never been a Marxist nation, and basicly piss on Marx's ideas every day of the week. Mao was even worse than Stalin at twisting Marx's ideas to his own insane bullshit, Maoism wasn't even close to Marxism. The chinese communist party wouldn't know what Marxism was if someone bitch slapped them with the communist manifesto.

Re:

[vidarh]

What Marxism was there ever to speak of in China? I'm not aware of much... Care to enlighten us, combined with references to what part of Marx' works it's related to?

Doesn't...?

[Nom du Keyboard]

Doesn't the Internet route around damage?

Re:

[McDutchie]

Doesn't the Internet route around damage?

Yeah. It'll route around China just fine.

Re:

[gknoy]

Doesn't the Internet route around damage?

Yes. However, if you're on the inside of the damage, that doesn't help you much. The rest of the world can go on uninterrupted, but China's citizens are getting a very different view.

Ah, real life Abbott and Costello classics...

[Bazman]

A: Who is the Chinese President?
C: Yes.
A: Who?
C: I told you.
A: When?
C: Wen is the Premier.
A: When is the Premier what?
C: The Premier of China.
A: Who is the Premier?
C: No, Hu is the President!
A: That's what I wanna know!

and so on...

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Same as the "cleaning up" shit in Turkey

[unity100]

Same kind of people everywhere. Bunch of retarded morons that are relics of cold war age, struggling to FORCE the youth to live like they did.

They need to die off fast so that the new ages can have a good chance.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

They need to die off fast so that the new ages can have a good chance.

...to grow up and to become the fascists.

Everyone in the Chinese government today was a child once.

Re:

[unity100]

what era do children grow up, matters much.

these were the ones who grew up in ww2 and start of the cold war. the furthest extent their vision can go has been long walked past by.

Oh well

[Plutonite]

The internet in China is diverging rapidly from the state that the rest of the world enjoys it.

1) eldavojohn rarely does this, but I believe the first sentence contains a serious grammatical hiccup.

2) Communists finally discovering that totalitarianism needs proper planning/resources to be implemented right on the internet. New age of confrontation begins, but frankly I think the commies will lose this one. When the main battlefields are lost to censorship, Chinese youth will be wondering why they can't access general information websites.

This said, I think wikipedia and other places should begin in

Re:

[ScrewMaster]

Would it be ok to solicit the help of our intelligence agencies, me wonders?

Sure it would, because then we'd know for sure who was doing the tampering.

But who cares?

[hackingbear]

This may sound like a big trouble to you who are not in China.

But nowaday in China, no ordinary people pay any attention to these kind of useless propaganda any more. (Students may have to memorize this thing so they can pass the exams, but I can ensure you it has zero impact on their mental state otherwise, as it hasn't had any on mine when I was a student there in 1980's.)

Re:

[jez9999]

as it hasn't had any on mine when I was a student there in 1980's.

Were you brought up in the US and went to study in China, already having decided on your outlook, or did you grow up from early childhood in China? Big difference.

While it sucks, it's pointless...

[gmezero]

I see lots of Chinese in Second Life these days and they're in world to talk, exchange ideas, and get information about the rest of the world because the SL grid is outside of censor controls. Short of blocking SL right out, or co-oping Linden Labs to parse every chat/IM/and image I don't see this changing anytime soon. This isn't just special to SL, I'm sure many of the international MMO's and Metaverses that Chinese access by pass censorship as well.

I also think the common person there is about fed up wit

New Google ads for China

[writerjosh]

New Google ads for China:

Cheap Car Insurance
Remember our Communist Utopia
And save 100's!

20% off Nike Shoes
Buy direct from the factory
Uncle Mao is watching

Chinese Singles
See hundreds of photos
No capitalists dogs

Re:This shows why I fear china

[Notquitecajun]

do not fear chinese. They are no different than anybody else.

Yes they are. They know Kung Fu.

Re:

[bladesjester]

Actually, the communists tried to outlaw kung fu.

They found out that they couldn't do so with complete effectiveness, so they tried to make it into more of a sport - competitve wu shu in which the actual martial aspects were downplayed and basically removed.

The main reason most kung fu that still exists actually still exists is because the teachers either went underground or were out of the country at the time.

Chuck Norris!

[Archangel Michael]

Yeah? We have Chuck Norris!

Re:Fear is the Mind Killer

[Opportunist]

I understand you well. I love the USA. I love the country. I love the people. A good deal of my friends and people I care for live and work in the US, simply because they were born there and live there.

I hate the US government, I hate the way corporations grasp more and more power over the people, I hate the loss of liberties for fake security.

I love the country. I hate the way it's run.

What exactly do you love?

[loqi]

What are you even talking about? Is it something special about the land? Does the countryside get insta-worse when you cross the border into Canada? Did Hawaii get prettier when it was granted statehood? Or do you just love the political geography? The shape of the coastline?

You say you love the people... you do realize that they're responsible for their government, right? So is that a general "I love all people", or is that more of a jingoistic and/or arbitrary "I love Americans"?

Re:

[Opportunist]

No, actually Canada is pretty similar to the US, country-wise. It's the ... dunno, feel. I mean, it IS different from Europe, that's for sure. You can't move a lot here without stumbling over some kind of settlement, it's actually quite a bit different there. Also the building style, the architecture... it's hard to describe, the many little things that make it so different and interesting. I don't wanna say it's "better" than Europe (actually, in many parts its worse), but it's different and thus intriguin

Re:Fear is the Mind Killer

[SQL Error]

You're talking about a country where an elected leader can be sacked for getting head

Really? What country is that? Little tip: Clinton was impeached; he was not removed from office.

but an unelected leader can't be prised from the grip of power with a shoe-horn made of righteous indignation millions strong.

Again, a little tip: Bush was elected. Twice. You may not like it, but that's how it is, under the rules set out in the Constitution. Indignation, righteous or otherwise, is completely irrelevant. And come January 2009, he is gone.

Are you sure the contrast is as stark as you're suggesting?

More stark, if anything.

Re:

[smidget2k4]

And he wasn't impeached for getting head (which is simply bad PR, not really an impeachable offense), he was impeached in the House for lying under oath about getting head.

BIG difference there. One is a felony, the other is being an asshole.

Re:

[nsayer]

the other is being an asshole

Let me clarify the clarification. Even getting head is not so bad. Clinton's actions were "assholish" on two counts:

1. He was married at the time. Granted, there are open marriages out there where it may be ok to get some on the side, I don't recall any evidence that this was the case with the Clintons. The fact that he had to seek her forgiveness, in fact, supports that it was a move with "asshole" status.

2. He was getting it from a subordinate employee approximately hal

Re:Fear is the Mind Killer

[rlp]

Let me add this little thought experiment:

Set-up two local sites: one in China, one in the US. In each, post articles denouncing the local country and call the country's leader every vile name known to man. In the US, you'll end up with a popular left-wing web site. In China, you'll get a knock on the door in the middle of the night and will never be heard from again.

Re:

[debrain]

Again, a little tip: Bush was elected. Twice. You may not like it, but that's how it is, under the rules set out in the Constitution. Indignation, righteous or otherwise, is completely irrelevant. And come January 2009, he is gone.

Not to belabour the same-old, but I think it's funny (and true, though please, anyone, feel free to clarify). Technically, George W. Bush became the President based on a ruling by the members of the Supreme Court of the United States on a disputed vote count in the State of Florid

Re:

[Moridineas]

George Bush Jr. was permitted, with less overall votes than the next candidate (Mr. Gore), to become President by way of winning a majority of college-electoral districts, which districts are (spoken cynically, I admit) fabricated by the Executive branch of government to preserve predictability and the marginalization of the regional voting trends(*). Phew.

knit one: college-electoral doesn't mean anything. You're thinking of the electoral college (or as homer called it, the eletrical college)

fabricated elec

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[JeanPaulBob]

Your first question would be so much more convincing--check that, it would have the bare minimum of validity--if it demonstrated any awareness of the Supreme Court's rationale in ending the recount, along with some indication of why that rationale was wrong.

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[mi]

do I care whether I get corporate or party spam?

You (should) care because corporations are many and competing, whereas there is only one Party (in China).

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God I live in America, where this kind of behavior is only exhibited by corporations (like Google, Apple, and Microsoft), and our government. Oh, wait a minute...

Reason to care

[SuperKendall]

I mean, aside of the (probable) cutting off of non-pro-China webpages that we already have? I mean, do I care whether I get corporate or party spam?

You can filter corporate spam.

If you try and filter Party spam, you get a trip to the pokey where mean men with big blunt objects remind you why you love to read the Party emails so much.

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[Ash Vince]

Mean men with blunt objects?

Sounds just like Guantanamo bay to me. The only difference is that America does it foreign citizens whereas China does it too its own people too.

Re:So the chinese can't read this article

[VendettaMF]

And yet I just read them all and am replying to them from Shenyang, Liaoning, China.

It ain't so cut and dried.

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[tong.lin]

If you need these to be censored.. you need to type them in Chinese.. Not many Chinese in China are going to search in English or Ping Ying. BTW, I was in Chengdu, Sichuan. I was reading these articles all the time.

oh yea ?

[unity100]

While we Europeans and decedents in the US were running around with stone knifes and bear skins, those people had a civilization.

and now they have a repressive regime that stamps on anything that flowers within their people's minds.

oh but thats allright !!! - they had a civilization when others had not, we can let the fact that current geezers running the country stamping on youth there. it is totally acceptable.

if you know a LITTLE bit of history, and the "civilization" you are talking about, youd know that chinese are being MADE live approximately in the SAME condition that they were being made to live in 3000 years ago.

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[unity100]

go dig some history. its the same overly-centralist, pressurized one-cut culture since the time of chi. that makes 2500 years. if you go 500 more, you will see that every petty king was ruling their territories the same.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion