US Bans Sales of iPods To North Korea

gamer4Life writes "The United States has created their list of products banned from being exported to North Korea. This list includes iPods, plasma televisions and Segway electric scooters. U.S. intelligence officials who helped produce the Bush administration's list said Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners."

The Good Kind of Sanctions

[eldavojohn]

As I've posted before [slashdot.org], I think this is a good approach.

There are good sanctions & bad sanctions. An example of bad sanctions were the sanctions the UN imposed against Iraq [globalpolicy.org] that caused a lot of human suffering. Yes, it put pressure on the dictator but it was easy ammo to use against the United States. Essentially claiming that we were starving and murdering the civilians--and I knew people that were saying we were doing horrible things!

When we impose sanctions on a country to pressure the dictator, I think that things like food, water, clothing & medicine should be increased with pro-American propaganda along with it. What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities. Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Their economy might stagnate and people might die as a result of that but it's not so easy to point the finger at the UN then. In my opinion, the blocking of these high commodities is precisely how sanctions should be done. If these have little or no effect (which they probably will) then you can always ramp it up to include other things. I think one of the harsher things you could do is just block all traffic two/from North Korea from the United States. I mean, they probably block most of it already so that might not matter but internet access would be another commodity that would certainly upset me if I didn't have access to it.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Lumpy]

here are good sanctions & bad sanctions. An example of bad sanctions were the sanctions the UN imposed against Iraq [globalpolicy.org] that caused a lot of human suffering.

have you tried living with a teenager that did not have her ipod? this causes HUGE amounts of human suffering!

Re:

[grub]

It would be a good idea if it actually worked. They were able to obtain material to make at least one atomic bomb, hardly the type of item you see at Best Buy.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[monoqlith]

It's strange, actually. I heard the body of the new Taepodong II nuclear missile is actually constructed out of refurbished iPods, clock radios, and 5 megapixel Sony cameras straight from Best Buy web site. These sanctions are good! That Kim Jong is just too thrifty!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[hkgroove]

Until recently, they've been using the shoddy bomb-casing full of used pinball machine parts the Libyan Nationalists gave them.

Re:

[aplusjimages]

Great Scott! AC is right.

Re:

[Thansal]

It would be a good idea if it actually worked. They were able to obtain material to make at least one atomic bomb, hardly the type of item you see at Best Buy.

My thoughts exactly. If I was an enterprising scumbag (with the proper contacts), I would contact Kim and just have him draw up a list of what he wants, buy everything on the list, and resell them for 2-10x the cost. Does the USA check the mail to Johny Kim in N.Korea? if so then just find the country that does not and have someone send em from ther

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Silver Sloth]

Does the USA check the mail to Johny Kim in N.Korea?

Why not - they check everyone else's!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[inviolet]

This [sanctiong] does not hurt the dictator.

It doesn't have to; he won't change his mind about us because we annoy him. What will get his attention is if the influential North Korean upper-classmen get pissed off at him over his policies.

The lower-class are just ballast. It's the upper-class that wields the most political power because Kim can't function without them and their thousands of separate fiefdoms. If those upper-classmen cease enjoying their lifestyle, then watch for a regime change or even a "popular uprising of the common man".

Re:

[nosfucious]

He is aware of this. I'm not sure if it was him, or his father, but North Korea has the "miliary-first" policy. The family might be in-bread and nuts, but they have a firm grip on what it takes to maintain power (Well, his dad did anyway).

The masses might be starving, but what little oil, food, electricity, luxuries there are, all go to the military first. They are unlikely to rock the boat until the food actually starts running out, for them.

If any civilisation is three square meals aware from anarchy, i'd

Re:

[Vellmont]

What will get his attention is if the influential North Korean upper-classmen get pissed off at him over his policies.

It's a nice theory, but the US banning sales directly to North Korea will likely have zero impact on the 600 or so families ability to get luxury goods. Does the US government think it can really stop the flow of a very small number of common items like this? 600 families isn't a whole lot, and it doesn't take a lot of people working in the black or grey markets to supply them with whateve

Re:

[homer_ca]

Also, don't these idiots know that iPods are designed in California but built in China, and China has a land border with NK?

Re:

[compro01]

you can't buy it pre-assembled, but you could likely get many of the raw componants, aside from the fissionable materiel and explosives, from most hardware and electronics stores.

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Fujisawa Sensei]

They should only permit the export of Microsoft Zunes to NK, that'll show him!

Re:The Good Kind of Sanctions

[Mysticalfruit]

Actually, exporting the Zune to them would be a violation of the Geneva conventions.

Re:

[Spackler]

Actually, I think it was those commie bastards who designed the Zune!

Re:

[mmalove]

There's a lot of truth to this. A big and repeatable point brought to the six party talks is that NK would spend money on weapons that are globally considered useless (attacking a nation with nukes in this day and age is pretty much signing your own death warrant). Meanwhile, people are starving, lack electricity, sanitation, etc. The only people that will be hurt by this are those that are living way above normal economic standards in the country - the hope is that maybe they can spend their wealth feed

Re:

[vertinox]

What we should decrease is things like automobiles, electronics & other high standard of living commodities. Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

Have you studied North Korea or even reviewed the stories of people have went on their friendship tours?

Even those guided tours show that North Korea has in the little of the way of cars and luxuries.

Considering most North Koreans are lucky to hav

Re:

[CodeBuster]

Therefore we make it annoying for the people of North Korea to get by but it isn't possible to point to conditions of people dying due to our sanctions.

The North Korean army and the party elites will receive the majority of the food and medical supplies and the people will be no better off than they were before. It is also extremely difficult to ensure that smuggling will not provide the limited quantity of luxury goods required to keep the elites happy, especially when China says that they will inspect

Re:

[null etc.]

As I've posted before, I think this is a good approach.

Are you crazy? If anything, we should flood their markets with consumer goods at super cheap prices, in order to get citizens to see that Kim Jong-il is not the only product of god upon which the light shines. Let the glow of an ipod screen temporarily let a North Korean citizen forget the Kim Jong-il poster hanging in their living room.

Re:

[Main Gauche]

"In other words, you make the only people your enemies who could actually overthrow the dictator you're trying to get rid of - the rich upper-class with ambitions."

Yes, the rich upper class is always the one starting revolutions.

"Great plan. No surprise you're doing so well in Iraq, you have all these excellent ideas. ;-)"

Did you read the post to which you responded? GP was contrasting his idea to the ones used in Iraq. But don't let that get in the way of a chance to make an Iraq crack.

If GP wer

This will surely fail!

[Kim Jong Il]

This dastardly attempt by the imperialists to stifle us will surely fail, as it always has in the past.

Our revolutionary scientific laborers, working under the glorious revolutionary banner of Juche, are coming up with our own as we speak! Our fervor shall produce better equipment than the American garbage, whether it be electronics, liquor, or food. Indeed, we have always done so, and the stories of us needing to import so called "luxury" goods are imperialist lies to discredit us.

As just one of many examples, it is well known that Great Leader Kim Il Sung, in his secret bunker on Mount Paekdu, singlehandedly created the Internet during the War of Resistance against the Japanese, passing on the specification to American military whose scientists who took credit dastardly for it twenty years later. I post this first post as a trivial testament to our revolutionary ingenuity, illustrating our pre-eminence!

Once again the imperialist dogs will be reminded of the futility of their ill-advised ways!

Your english is too good. So, I translated it. :)

[Anonymous Coward]

This dastardry attempt by the imperiarists to stifre us rirr surely fair, as it arrays has in the past.

Our revorutionary scientific raborers, rorking under the grorious revorutionary banner of Juche, are coming up rith our orn as re speak! Our fervor sharr produce better equipment than the American garbage, rhether it be erectronics, riquor, or food. Indeed, re have awrays done so, and the stories of us needing to import so carred "ruxury" goods are imperiarist ries to discredit us.

As just one of many examp

But strangely

[Anonymous Coward]

The Zune is a go for Lil Kim.

Re:

[jimstapleton]

well, they are trying to punish him... Makes sense to me.

Re:

[Hijacked Public]

Our intent is obviously to confound him with the massive scale of the Zune.

He will think to himself, as I did while fumbling with one at B&H Photo, 'this thing must certainly be more than just a 30GB MP3/Video/Photo player given its size'. A 30GB iPod is relatively tiny, so the Zune must contain some kind of secret diabolical mechanical workings, gears and the like, that allow it to perform some task that the iPod cannot, like transform into a small motorbike or something.

Re:

[freerangegeek]

But won't Microsoft have to change the catch phrase for North Korea? Welcome to the Socialist?

Newsflash

[radiashun]

Segway declares bankruptcy after losing it's stranglehold on the North Korean electric scooter market.

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

Re:

[msuzio]

"Because they're the bomb, baby!!!"

Re:Newsflash

[jimstapleton]

it's nothing against Segway, it's against their not-so-benevolent dictator. It's something he wants, so they are banning it.

Re:Newsflash

[antifoidulus]

I dunno, given our own president's record with the devices, maybe we should be giving them more of the things.

Re:

[jimstapleton]

yeah, I suspect the North Korean dictator is smarter than our dictator, just also more insane.

Re:

[andphi]

Kim Jong Il responds: "I'm So Ronery."

Re:

[bareman]

It gives them a reason other than "they're completely lame" for not being able to sell them.

Re:

[Frankie70]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?
It's revenge against [windycitylefty.com],
not against Korea.

Re:

[hey!]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

If you've read your Dante, you'd know that evil is mostly about having incredibly stupid priorities. Starving the country so you can ride around on a toy is precisely the kind of thing evil people do.

Re:

[jrockway]

Now that he can't have a Segway (at a cost of US $3000 or whatever), he won't be evil anymore! The people of North Korea are saved!

Re:

[aplusjimages]

I was shocked to see they weren't already bankrupt. Arrested Development was the only place I saw that thing being used. Talk about getting punched in the face after getting up from a kick in the balls.

Re:

[bitt3n]

Seriously, why would the ban Segway exports?

a segway came closer to killing W than any Taepodong ever will.

Re:

[derfel]

It's the Digitial Signal Processors which control the Segway. They can provide the computing power that is well-suited for missile guidance systems and other nefarious military devices.

Re:

[ubrgeek]

Is there a mod for "Paranoid"?

North Korea is dark

[Southpaw018]

The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country looks like this [globalsecurity.org].

I think if I could choose to stab anyone in the world in the face, he'd be a finalist for sure.

Maybe...

[Kadin2048]

...they're just turning off all the lights in order to capitalize on the vast demand for meteorological tourism?

"North Korea: No Electricity Means No Light Pollution!"

Re:North Korea is dark

[Hennell]

Say what you like about North Korea, but the country has a damn good record on light pollution.

Re:North Korea is dark

[YrWrstNtmr]

Say what you like about North Korea, but the country has a damn good record on light pollution.

And Ethiopia has a damn good record on obesity.

Re:

[Mikachu]

You can't have a serious pollution issue if YOUR PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD CARS.

Re:

[h2g2bob]

You can't have a serious pollution issue if YOUR PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD CARS.

Even if they could afford cars, they wouldn't be able to park them in well-lit places.

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

That describes a lot of Americans too, I'm sure, the difference being that they a) aren't in a position of power, and b) you'd have to use a picture of the bad parts of Detroit or Flint instead. And a) isn't as big a difference as you might think, since most ordinary North Koreans really buy into the communism thing just the same.

Re:

[Mr. Underbridge]

People aren't dying of starvation by the truckload in the "bad" parts of Flint. NK is bad beyond Western comprehension.

Re:

[UbuntuDupe]

Yeah, I know. I was just being nitpicky. But remember, he didn't say:

"The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country suffers mass starvation"

He said:

"The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country looks like this" (emphasis added)

Re:

[E++99]

as big a difference as you might think, since most ordinary North Koreans really buy into the communism thing just the same.

No, people who are starving to death do NOT typically buy into the ideology of their government. And the propaganda only makes it worse, since the people making it are so clueless as to the lot of the common people. Such as telling about North Korean prisoners in South Korea going on hunger strikes. "Hunger strikes??? There's food in South Korean prisons?????"

Re:

[Panaflex]

I imagine there's numerous reasons:

• Energy is expensive - China cut all oil exports to NK last month.
  
• North Koreans can't afford to pay the light bill, or they're so expensive they hardly use them.
  
• OMG Spy planes!!!
  
• The ground around the city glows just fine
  
• Kim is the first world leader to understand Al Gore's message!
  
• Soon the night will shine like daylight!! (heh, 007 reference)
  

Re:

[unsupported]

Dude, the people of North Korea eat leaves and twigs to survive. They are constantly told that South Korea and the rest of the world are worse off than they are. The only pictures the news shows of North Korea are of the millitary. Old busted ass Russian missile vehicles, the millitary, and Shorty Mc-Il. God forbid the rest of the world actually see the attrocities this mad man is unleashing against his own people.

[soapbox]But don't get me started on why the UN did not do anything when North Korea first

Re:

[CohibaVancouver]

They should never have gotten this far

That's bang-on. Read an interesting article the other week (Slate.com, maybe?) that basically said that while Darfur is a travesty, it's Disneyland (with no queues) compared to the concentration camps in North Korea. Yet nothing can be done.

Re:

[CohibaVancouver]

Believe me, something can be done

But what? Does America really have the stomach to have tens-of-thousands of their 'boys' (i.e. soldiers) die in an attempt to liberate north korea? And what if that nut-job responds with his supposed nukes? I suspect the only way would be the death of Kim combined with the people having the will to rise up themselves.

Re:North Korea is dark

[Fred_A]

The man drives BMWs and Caddies, rides a Harley, sips fine cognac and drinks good scotch, plays with cameras, and relaxes in air conditioning, and his country looks like this.

That's because he just got into astronomy.

Re:

[Dion]

Dude! jonny walker is not good scotch, if you need it for anything other than cleaning a gearbox.

Glenmorangie, Highland park, Lagavulin, those are good scotch whiskys.

Republicans in the dark

[Delirium Tremens]

No need to look that far abroad. It is the same situation in the USA.
Look at this map [w-uh.com] with regards to the last presidential election results...

Talk about effective sanctions

[Salvance]

Woah! North Korea certainly won't be able to progress in their quest for the bomb now that they won't be able to watch the "How to Make a Nuclear Bomb" podcasts anymore! How ridiculous.

Re:

[halivar]

The sanctions are not directed at NK, it's prople, or its military. It's directed squarely at Kim Jong Il.

Effective Sanctions

[Kadin2048]

It's directed squarely at Kim Jong Il.

They probably should have put a sanction on exports of Brylcreem and hair gel, in that case.

Re:

[owlnation]

Not to mention no iTunes downloads of "Radioactive" by Gene Simmons.

In other news

[Timesprout]

Kimdude has set a new high for monthly purchases on ebay.

Re:

[cold fjord]

Buying is easy, shipping is not.

That is, unless they plan to smuggle the goods into North Korea through the invasion tunnels [globalsecurity.org] they dug into South Korea.

money

[TheSHAD0W]

I think the more money North Koreans spend on iPods, plasma televisions and Segways, the less they have to spend on nuclear weapons.

Preload them with Bon Jovi.

[Kadin2048]

I think the more money North Koreans spend on iPods, plasma televisions and Segways, the less they have to spend on nuclear weapons.

Actually, I'd vote that we export only iPods to North Korea. (I'd say only Zunes, but I feel like that's probably a crime against humanity.)

Kim Jong-il's Wish List

[MasterC]

Kim prefers Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac cars; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO cognac from France and Johnny Walker Scotch whisky; Sony cameras and Japanese air conditioners.

Kudos to the poster for providing Kim's "holiday" wish list. But, what? No PS3, Xbox 360, or Wii? I guess who needs a video game console when you have a whole country to play with.

Seriously, I like doubled my knowledge about Kim by reading that list.

The list

[Rik Sweeney]

This list includes [...] and Segway electric scooters

Those bastards!

What about catfish?

[Shadow Wrought]

Huge man eating catfish?

We banned plasma TVs?

[qazwart]

Um...

Does the U.S. even make plasma TVs?

While we're at it, why not ban quantum based time machine portals?

Re:

[powerlord]

You can have my quantum based time machine portal when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

No ... no ... no ... its

"You can have my quantum based time machine when you pry it from my pet cyborg-velociraptor's cold, dead, laser talons." :)

In other news

[TheStonepedo]

There was a massive nerd-rush for the following products after an effective slashvertisement:
Mercedes', BMWs and Cadillacs; Japanese and Harley Davidson motorcycles; Hennessy XO and Johnny Walker.
When asked for a comment, one nerd replied, "I had no idea there were products other than iPods and Segways. Mr. Kim has really opened my eyes to the new world of non-computing-related consumerism."

No surprise

[redelm]

N.Korea is no longer a Generally Embargoed Country (currently Cuba, Iran, Sudan) but is highly restricted like Syria. The US has always restricted exports starting with pine logs in 1782 to avoid helping the Royal Navy. See the BIS website [doc.gov].

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Workers' Paradises

[Doc Ruby]

When the Republican Congress gave "fast track" authority to Clinton so he could make "Communist" China a "Most Favored Nation" trading partner, those staunch "anticommunists" claimed that China would become dependent on the US market, increasing our political power to force them to make changes. Economics, human rights, security - all would gain American influence, while we got cheap products and they got money to develop into a freer country that didn't threaten us or the world as much.

North Korea is total

Re:

[mfrank]

The US wants regime change. China wants to not have to deal with millions of starving, mentally stunted North Korean refugees. Those are mutually incompatible goals. China would have no problem going with the plan if the goal were to improve and open North Korea's economy (which would improve the lives of its people) and not regime change, which would almost certainly cause a humanitarian disaster on a mind-numbing scale. And BTW, the US stated goal of regime change is a major factor in why Iran and NK

A better idea...

[E++99]

Instead of banning them outright, since only Kim himself gets the luxories, why not let them import segways, but remove the speed limiting electronics. Assasination by runaway segway. We'll also need to allow them to import camcorders, so that there a chance for them to get the event on videotape.

interesting movie choices...

[iamhassi]

from the article:
"He also is said to own an extensive movie library of more than 10,000 titles and prefers films about James Bond and Godzilla, along with Clint Eastwood's 1993 drama, "In the Line of Fire," and Whitney Houston's 1992 love story, "The Bodyguard.""

Interesting movie choices: both movies where a bodyguard puts himself in front of a bullet to save the person they're guarding. Do you think Kim Jong Il dreams of his own Client Eastwood or Kevin Costner to guard him?

Re:

[rthille]

Or is his liking for 'In the Line of Fire' related to a desire to see the President of the United States be shot?

In Soviet Russia...

[DoofusOfDeath]

OK, this actually isn't a joke post, despite the subject line...

Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union in the 70's and 80's attribute the influence of bootleg copies of Western rock music to the eventual opening up of the Soviet Union. It seems to me that iPods could potentially have a similar role, and we're cutting that off.

Shouldn't we be flooding N.K. with as much cheap communications / recording equipment as possible?

Re:

[LordEd]

And now for the joke.

In Soviet Russia, iPod bans you!

Your tax dollars paid for this list

[McGregorMortis]

The likelihood that Kim Jong Il be even momentarily inconvenienced by this is negligible. The project is a failure before it's even started.

Probably not a lot of money spent, just the salaries of a bunch of high-ranking national security people for a few months. Nothing compared to the costs of an Iraq war or anything, but still... couldn't they find something more useful to do than waste their time on this useless masturbatory fantasy?

If the intention was to make Kim Jong Il fall over and die laughing at

Open the darn border already.

[b0s0z0ku]

I'm not kidding. What would happen if South Korea just stood down across the DMZ and said "come on over if you really want to..."? I'd suspect that North Korean troops will find out how awful capitalism really is and will have ol' Kimmie Boy in front of a firing squad within half a year. North Korean fascism won't be able to last if even 10% of their population knew what lay beyond their borders!

-b.

BTW- that's why Soviet troops returning from the front after WW II often went straight to Siberia. They simply knew too much about how good the conditions were outside the Soviet Empire (this despite the fact that Germany and Poland were war-torn mudholes).

Re:

[808140]

You're on crack. It is true that Stalin sent a lot of people coming back from the Great Patriotic War to the gulag, but most of them were generals, war heroes, and similar. The reasoning was not because life was "so good" in the West, but rather because these people had possibly had contact with rightist and or imperialist elements in Western Europe (not quality of life, but other people) and because their hero status conferred a great deal of credit upon them in the eyes of the Russian people, it was fe

Re:

[b0s0z0ku]

But to say that they were afraid of people in the East seeing "how good" life in the West was at that time is pure cold war propaganda. The West had just come out of the great depression, which at the time was believed (by western economists) to be a result of the inherent instability of markets.

Do not confuse the Soviet lifestyle of the 1930s/1940s of the larger cities and towns with the lifestyle of the rural peoples. The rural people's lifestyle really hadn't changed that much since the time of the ts

How do they get this information?

[Bromskloss]

Satellites? (Can they see the bottles?) American officials visiting North Korea? (Are there even any?) Leaking North Korean officials? Uncercover agents? Guessing? (Who can check, anyway? Hehe.) Comparing with their own leader? (Because they are so similar in everything else.. eh.. ;-))

Kim-on-a-segway-would-be-cute

[easter1916]

Kim in a coffin would be cute, Taco. He's a fucking megalomaniac.

Worse than that

[rlp]

I heard that they canceled Kim's ITunes account. Now thats cold.

Kim is a bad guy but

[Nicolas MONNET]

How many countries has North Korea invaded or attacked in the past 60 years? Zero.

How many countries has the US invaded / attacked / destabilized in the past 60 years? VALUE OUT OF BOUND ERROR.

MAKE YOUR TIME

[Infinityis]

IN A.D. 2006
WAR WAS BEGINNING.
Kim: WHAT HAPPEN?
Mechanic: SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BAN.
Operator: WE GET EMBARGO.
Kim: WHAT!!
Operator: VIDEO IPOD TURN ON.
Kim: IT'S YOU!!
Bush: HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN!!
Bush: ALL YOUR IPOD ARE BELONG TO US.
Bush: YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO BOREDOM.
Dictator Kim: WHAT YOU SAY!!
Bush: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO PRESS PLAY MAKE YOUR TIME.
Bush: HA HA HA HA....
Operator: DICTATOR!
Kim: TAKE OFF EVERY 'MP3'!!
Kim: YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING.
Kim: MOVE 'ITUNES'.
Kim: FOR GREAT JUSTICE

Re:Black market, anyone?

[tehcyder]

some of that fine American cognac

Is this a joke?

Exactly

[NineNine]

You're exactly right. This is pointless. If N. Korea could get all of the parts and assemble their own nuclear weapons, somehow I doubt that they're going to have trouble getting their plasma TV's.

Re:

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

that's because you live only a few city blocks away from a privileged neighborhood who always seem to be missing their luxury items. . .

Re:

[The Nipponese]

Actually, I'm pretty the Caddy down the street was paid for by selling even more illicit luxury items to those privileged neighborhoods.

Re:

[dhasenan]

That's inhumane by any standards.

American-made electronics? Sure

[Man in Spandex]

I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it. And look, there's Magnetbox and Sorny.

- Homer Simpson

Re:

[Nimey]

It's aimed at the NK elite, dumbass. Piss them off and maybe they'll be open to a palace coup.

Re:

[scheming daemons]

It's aimed at the NK elite, dumbass. Piss them off and maybe they'll be open to a palace coup.

You're right.... years of starvation and poverty had no effect on them, but take away their access to iPods and they'll break out the guillotines!

Re:Let's get this straight: the black market

[Perseid]

Yes, the North Korean middle class will be hit hard by this and I assume they'll both be pretty pissed.

Re:

[jratcliffe]

Huh? Honestly, I really don't understand your point here. Exactly which of these sanctions will in any way affect "innocent people and families" in North Korea? This isn't Singapore we're talking about here - getting three squares a day and having a TV (that's hardwired to receive only the one state-run TV channel) make you a rich man. Heck, denial of any of these items wouldn't even be a true "hardship" for any family in the US (annoying/disappointing, yes, but not a true hardship).