Trump Halts US Funding For World Health Organization As It Conducts Coronavirus Review (cnbc.com) 580
President Trump is following through with the threat he made last week by suspending funding to the World Health Organization while his administration reviews the agency's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Slashdot reader schwit1 first shared the news. CNBC reports: "Today I'm instructing my administration to halt funding of the World Health Organization while a review is conducted to assess the World Health Organization's role in severely mismanaging and covering up the spread of the coronavirus," Trump said at a White House press conference. Trump criticized the international agency's response to the outbreak, saying "one of the most dangerous and costly decisions from the WHO was its disastrous decision to oppose travel restrictions from China and other nations" that Trump imposed early on in the outbreak. "Fortunately, I was not convinced and suspended travel from China saving untold numbers of lives," he said.
It's unclear exactly what mechanism Trump intends to use to withhold WHO funding, much of which is appropriated by Congress. The president typically does not have the authority to unilaterally redirect congressional funding. One option might be for Trump to use powers granted to the president under the Impoundment Control Act of 1974. Under this statute, the president may propose to withhold congressional funds, but it requires congressional approval within 45 days. Absent this approval, the funds must be returned to their original, congressionally mandated purpose after 45 days. Trump also said Tuesday that he believes some state economies may be able to open for business by May 1st. "It's going to be very very close. Maybe even before the date of May 1st," he said.
Trump's announcement came a day after governors from the country's East and West coasts announced they would form their own regional pacts to work together on how to reopen from the stay-at-home orders each has issued to limit the spread of the virus.
It's unclear exactly what mechanism Trump intends to use to withhold WHO funding, much of which is appropriated by Congress. The president typically does not have the authority to unilaterally redirect congressional funding. One option might be for Trump to use powers granted to the president under the Impoundment Control Act of 1974. Under this statute, the president may propose to withhold congressional funds, but it requires congressional approval within 45 days. Absent this approval, the funds must be returned to their original, congressionally mandated purpose after 45 days. Trump also said Tuesday that he believes some state economies may be able to open for business by May 1st. "It's going to be very very close. Maybe even before the date of May 1st," he said.
Trump's announcement came a day after governors from the country's East and West coasts announced they would form their own regional pacts to work together on how to reopen from the stay-at-home orders each has issued to limit the spread of the virus.
Seriously? (Score:3, Insightful)
What a petulant child...
Does this seem like a bad idea to anyone else? (Score:2, Insightful)
I can not see any sanity in this.... WTF?
There is a Polish (I think) expression, "not my circus, not my monkeys". Trump is that backstabber in the office that you just want to punch, hard , in the face.....
So, how long to anarchy? anyone?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
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Both claim it.
And both are:
a) Major players in overthrowing the Emperor (or the shadow Empress)
b) throwing out the foreign occupations - aka the dutch, britisch, French, German, American, Belgium etc. conquerers out of the occupied regions
c) survived the struggle about who will replace the overthrown monarchy
d) fought among each others until Mao drove Chang Kai Check to Taiwan
e) both proclaimed "we are the republic of China"
f) bot
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A lot of people seem to feel that when there's a problem, the most important thing to do is find someone else to blame. Whenever you hear a comment about something emotional, you need to ask yourself if that's what's going on.
That said, if someone is obstructing action, then the most important thing to do can be to find some way around them. Blaming them is less important, even if it's merited.
Re:Does this seem like a bad idea to anyone else? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I think this is actually good for the world, as it makes it completely clear that the US is a complete and persistent failure as "world leader". The WHO will survive.
Re:Does this seem like a bad idea to anyone else? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can not see any sanity in this.... WTF?
This is how blamestorming works. I have seen it played out numerous times at work.
Typical American management. Have you seen The Office?
Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
Most of the world is busy fighting the pandemic.
Trump is busy looking for other people to take the blame.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly.
No matter what happens, nothing is his fault. Ever.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Informative)
24/1 - Trump: China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well.
31/1 - WHO declares Public Health Emergency (PHEIC).
27/2 - Trump: it's going to disappear.
28/2 - Trump: 35,000 die each year from flu. Coronavirus hoax.
6/3 - Trump: unforeseen problem. Came out of nowhere. (37 days after PHEIC.)
11/3 - WHO concerned by levels of inaction, declares pandemic.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Haven't you noticed? Everyone on this thread is fighting about who to blame most: WHO, China or Trump.
In reality the timeline is this: most people get it right in the end. Before they get it right they get it wrong. Some got it spectacularly wrong, others merely thought the proof was not convincing enough yet.
It is a standard modus operandi to blame others for the time when you got it wrong and to refer to citations which are old enough to prove it.
China had a period where some early adopters claimed this disease was human-to-human transmissible while the consensus was they didn't know yet. This changed very fast. They very quickly suspected nonsymptomatic contagiousness as well.
In the US you can see that Fauci's switch came much later than China's, and Trump's switch also arrived eventually. His switch was more spectacular but no less real.
The very predictable outcome is that everyone in the US will blame China and Russia , with some blame to spare for Trump.
This has nothing to do with China and Russia really. It's just blaming the bad guys.
The bleeding obvious which is drowned out by the american craving for external enemies is that China did a very good job, and its neighboring countries took lessons from it and did so very quickly.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike you, of course. "Orange Man Bad!1!!"
I despise Doug Ford, but he's governed responsibly during the COVID-19 outbreak.
My criticism of Trump isn't because I despise him.
It's because he's continually failing to do his job and it's costing people their lives.
I mean look back at his response to the Grand Princess Cruise Ship [businessinsider.com]:
"I like the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault," Trump said in a Fox News interview.
Now actually think about what going on there. Thousands of people were stuck on a cruise ship with a dangerous virus and his first concern is whether their illnesses will be counted as being cases in the US. And this is a thing he said in public.
And it's an pattern he's repeated over and over. He got mad at Navarro for putting his 500k death warning in writing. It's not the Federal Government's job to get medical equipment during a national emergency. He's didn't actually downplay the virus in February. And now it's all the fault of the WHO.
You can't lead the response to a crisis when your primary objective is finding someone else to blame for that crisis.
As long as he's left in charge the US is going to keep bungling the response and additional people will keep dying as a result.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
My criticism of Trump isn't because I despise him.
It's because he's continually failing to do his job and it's costing people their lives.
That explains why, in 2016, before he took office, you were already slamming him on slashdot.
Of course I was.
In 2016, before he took office, it was painfully obvious that he would be an awful President.
The only question was whether this would result in a major crisis. After several years bad governance and playing Russian roulette with North Korea and Iran an external crisis has hit the US. A crisis that required a marginally competent response.
And he's actually handling it worse than I would have expected him to back in 2016.
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
Having a like or dislike of someone is not necessarily the same as one's assessment of that person's abilities.
Don't project your confusion of these onto others.
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
That Trump is an idiot was known long before 2016. And, yet, here you are, still in denial.
Re:Priorities (Score:4, Interesting)
Most of the world is busy fighting the pandemic.
Exactly. Funding a Chinese PR agency should be the least of everyone's priorities right now.
And so why is defunding that same agency a concern right now?
So let's assume that defunding World Health Organization will have zero impact on fighting the virus, and they totally and massively screwed up given the information they had at the time (hindsight is always 20/20) because of an inappropriate relationship with the Chinese Government.
Why is now the time to pick that fight?
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because of an inappropriate relationship with the Chinese Government.
. . .
Why is now the time to pick that fight?
What incentive will they have to act appropriately if there are no consequences to willful bad behavior, and likely corruption?
Re: Priorities (Score:4, Insightful)
What incentive for health care in the US when you are prepared to lie like this to mask your lying president? Americans are dying, and this is your response? Shame on you.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly. Funding a Chinese PR agency should be the least of everyone's priorities right now.
You do realise the WHO is an organisation that is able to act only on government official records right? I mean I get it. My wife sent me divorce papers and I proceeded to bludgeon the postman to death because clearly the divorce wouldn't have happened if he hadn't delivered the papers.
The ignorance of Trump shills on the purpose of the WHO is truly astounding.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
You'd need to be more explicit before I'd take that seriously.
That said, WHO is basically a clearinghouse. It makes recommendations, but has no ability to do things. And that's good. So if you don't trust their recommendations, it's appropriate for you to ignore them, and they can't stop you.
And it's not as if they were the sole source of information available. They were one of multiple sources. But they're publicly visible, and an easy target when things don't work out as desired. The classic term is scapegoat, even though that's misunderstanding the original use of the term. (The goat that is allowed to escape after having all the sins of the tribe piled on top of him.)
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That said, WHO is basically a clearinghouse. It makes recommendations, but has no ability to do things.
I think this actually misses the point. They are embedded in the various different countries in different locations so they are actually collecting information and recommendations. This means that the Chinese have to basically trust them, otherwise they would be sent away from the place that it seems most recent diseases come from. This finally means that, given that China has a pretty abysmal record for free speech, the WHO is always going to be overly careful about forwarding information. However, the
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^^ This. I don't know about all the rest of you, but a few years back I spent a semester reading and critiquing dozens of "papers" published by the WHO, and discussing them with public health experts from around the world.
The papers published by the WHO were all complete junk. There were tons of blatant scientific and logical issues, and little evidence (or even references) provided for any of the claims in their published work. It's just a feel-good organization, not one that's doing much actual evidenced-
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
The papers published by the WHO were all complete junk.
And now that we know they are in the pocket of the Chinese government, that makes them even more suspect.
Then why the fxxk did Trump based his decision on what WHO said? Or has he?
Make up your mind. Did Trump based his decision on WHO recommendation? If yes, why did Trump based his decision on junk? Didn't he has science and medical advisors? If no, then why is he blaming WHO when it was irrelevant to his decision anyway?
The US is quite schizophrenic in trying to blame someone for their unpreparedness. How could anyone sane simultaneously believe these pairs of statements?
"China lied about their numbers and you are a fool to believe them!"
"We weren't prepared because we believed China's numbers!"
"WHO papers were junk!"
"We weren't prepared because we relied on WHO advise!"
Of course, we all knew the truth already, Trump was just looking for someone to blame and rewrite history, you don't need to be logical to do that.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Informative)
He is blaming the WHO for taking it too easy on the Chinese or lying about them or whatever, but Trump was doing that himself back in January.
https://twitter.com/realDonald... [twitter.com]
China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!
24th of January 2020.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
There were tons of blatant scientific and logical issues
Citation required.
and little evidence (or even references) provided for any of the claims in their published work
100% of the evidence from the WHO comes from the official records of government bodies. They are not an independent organisation, they simply make recommendations based on official records available.
It sounds like you're blaming the official records. May I recommend changing the purpose of the WHO and then massively *increasing* their funding so they can achieve your desire for them to be a government independent scientific body?
Or maybe just read their About page and educate yourself about the topic before you criticise.
And now that we know they are in the pocket of the Chinese government
Actually they are in the pocket of every government since they only use official records. Fuck your petty politics.
Re:Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
There are officials at the WHO that are responsible for a number of deaths to rival war criminals; having them take the blame is a good thing.
What is it that you think the WHO actually does? You seem to think they are an independent international regulatory and inspection organisation instead of an organisation that is able to base its decisions only on the official records of the governments of the world. You seem to want them to be a political tool to use against another country rather than an independent analysis house.
Officials at the WHO aren't responsible for anything. All the data they had at their disposal from which they could make judgements was provided by governments, and from their they make recommendations only. The only people responsible for anything are governments providing data, and governments with their own health departments making decisions. They can take WHO's recommendation as an input, or they can ignore it completely.
Like a stopped clock twice a day, Trump is occasionally an effective leader.
Based on a knee jerk reaction? Based on a lack of understanding of the WHO? That doesn't make him an effective leader. In fact based on what you *think* the WHO should be doing it sounds like they would need a massive *increase* in funding. So he isn't even a leader in line with your goals.
No Trump has not shown any "leadership" at all. errr. Period. My statement extends well beyond his handling of this pandemic.
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That's not entirely accurate. He also golfs.
He had time to pardon Blagojevich (Score:3, Insightful)
He had time to pardon Blagojevich. He doesn’t get to blame anyone else or say he was distracted by impeachment. Clearly his ego is responsible for the failure of the government to do its job. President Trump failed. It’s not fake news, it’s his failure pure and simple.
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He also had plenty of time to go golfing and hold rallies, so it couldn't have been that big of a distraction.
He sure seems dead-set against more testing. (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is weird, since more testing is the only logistical way we get people confident enough to start working again without major reservations.
I think his philosophical objections is that the only way to ramp up testing in the timeline palatable to conservatives is to involve major government actions beyond what the market will deliver on their own.
That would cause some level of confidence in the government as a thing to rely on above and beyond the market.
And that's something more threatening than mass death itself.
A future where wise use of government is a valid tool in the belt of America.
So yeah - the WHO, with their independent testing, and specter of INTERNATIONAL governance - hoo - that's basically holy water to their market vampire ideals.
Ryan Fenton
Germany, Singapore & HK are doing fine (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what happens when you don't put experts in charge, and when you stop believing in science and prioritize business acumen above all else. It doesn't work. And this nonsensical fight with the WHO is just an extension of that same way of thinking.
Re:Germany, Singapore & HK are doing fine (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Germany, Singapore & HK are doing fine (Score:5, Insightful)
Germany is doing so much better than the UK, and Italy and Spain, but especially the UK. For all the problems you have just be glad you are not Britain and your government isn't just a bunch of incompetent disaster capitalists who only look out for themselves, or ideologically driven to the point sacrificing other people's lives on their altar.
We have the highest per head death rate, our economy is trashed and the government is already trying to prepare us for another decade of austerity and pain off the back of it. It's like staring into the void, all you can do is hope you and anyone you care about doesn't fall in because any more is too much to dare contemplate.
Not paying enough attention to him (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump will fight anyone that opposes him. Anyone who threatens to steal the spotlight for a second.
This is 50% ego and 50% wanting to blame someone else for his blunders.
He had the information and failed to act on it. He has the information now and is saying business will reopen.
This has nothing to do with the many failures by the WHO (nothing new there, there are books and books on all their mistakes during the H1N1 pandemic) and everything to do with Trump.
Re:Not paying enough attention to him (Score:5, Insightful)
You describe a person with absolutely no honor, integrity, understanding or human compassion. The worst of the worst the human race has to offer.
Yes, seems to fit the observable data.
Ebola (Score:5, Interesting)
Great so when a disease emerges in a poor country we won't know until it has already asymptomatically infected half of the world population. Then how are we going to stop it? Furthermore we won't know anything about the virus. At least we had a head start when it was in China, we got copies of its genome. I had a copy of its genome in January. We at least knew it was a coronavirus etc. We knew a lot about it, we knew its spike protein was wonky. We knew it had the good old coronavirus RdRp etc. Heck we even got a few vaccine designs done in January. I mean here is an open source vaccine design from late January https://github.com/feraliscatu... [github.com] . It's pretty clear viruses are evolving to human stupidity. I mean, we already have the technology to cheaply screen every sick person for at least the top 20 pathogens (isothermal LAMP RT-qPCR) or diseases and then refer them to further to testing to find out if they have some new & improved disease, but nope we don't do that. And we don't do routine screenings. What would you do, if you were a virus? Obviously it would evolve to play nice in the body in high viral load so that asymptomatic transmission is feasible. I mean, viruses strive to be aerosolizable like measles, and then be asymptomatic for as long as possible like herpes. I mean they teach that to viruses in the 3rd grade.
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Great so when a disease emerges in a poor country we won't know until it has already asymptomatically infected half of the world population.
Exactly. Without another mouthpiece telling the world the truth, it would be much easier to control the story.
Then how are we going to stop it?
We aren't. That's just a waste of money. It costs much less to just bury the dead while making sure that we note they died of something normal like "pneumonia". Above all, we must keep the slaves working!
Trump: Why won't the world let me rewrite history? (Score:4, Insightful)
You can fool some of the people some of the time...
US Collapse (Score:5, Insightful)
If you would have told me 20 years ago that I would witness the end of the US as a meaningful power in my lifetime, I wouldn't have believed you. I wonder whether history books will remember 9/11 or Trump as the starting date of the downward spiral. I also wonder what this means for Europe in the future.
Re:US Collapse (Score:5, Insightful)
And the world erupts in thunderous applause as it finally gets an end to US bullying like it has long wanted.
Europe, in particular, has suffered under US "leadership". It has been dragged into wars it wants no part of, and America has created refugees that have swamped European welfare states. Germany or Russia don't have military bases, don't dominate their media, politics, cause wars or influence elections like the USA does to Europe, the USA hates Europe and independent countries, the USA only guarantees war, misery, poverty, shame, decline, death and humiliation. Europe needs to stand up to big, powerful, arrogant nations who wish to profit off of suffering and extension of neo-imperialism. The US is a parasitic nation run by banks and corporations and constantly meddles in the affairs of other countries, despite the fact that many millions of Americans themselves are literally starving and live in poverty.
The US is a bit like the schoolyard bully of international politics. Strong, but not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. Everyone knows it, but nobody really wants to say it because the bully isn't just strong and dumb but also quite sensitive about being told that he's not only dumb but actually universally hated. So the other kids suck up to him because every time he beats someone up for his lunch money, some of the pennies drop to the ground and whoever pretends to be his buddy gets to pick those up himself.
America is a dumpster fire of a nation that is racist, lazy, homophobic, nationalistic, Islamophobic, obsessed with non-democratic forms of leadership, shitty food, rednecks with buck teeth that look like they got curb stomped.
As the late Howard Zinn, author of "A People's History of the United States," the most widely used American history text in high schools and universities said, the world was not better off thanks to the founding of America.
Re: US Collapse (Score:3)
You forgot the s/
Trump threatened CA while it was burning too (Score:3)
"The Governor of California, @GavinNewsom, has done a terrible job of forest management," Trump tweeted early Sunday. "I told him from the first day we met that he must 'clean' his forest floors regardless of what his bosses, the environmentalists, DEMAND of him. Must also do burns and cut fire stoppers. Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states."
Trump threatens to pull federal aid for California wildfires [nbcnews.com]
I can see the argument for not renewing funding for something that you feel is being mishandled, but to do so when Americans were losing their homes and dying in fires or when people all around the world including our own country are getting sick and dying in large numbers is sociopathic, IMO.
The middle of an emergency or crisis is not the time to deny help.
So it's no wonder Trump wants to deny help for the World Health Organization. He was all too eager to abandon Americans in their time of need.
Also, "No ventilators from the federal stockpile for you, Cuomo. These are mine! You should have bought your own back in 2015 or whenever it was."
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Well, the last time Trump held up disbursement of legislated funding for policy reasons (to Ukraine) in violation of the Impoundment Control Act, only one Republican Senator was willing to convict him...
Maybe there is a Biden on the WHO Org chart?
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Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what they deserve for being a Chinese shill
This.
I mean, do we really need the WHO when we have Trump? He has a better understanding of the coronavirus than anyone. He gets this stuff [whitehouse.gov].
"You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great super genius. Dr. John Trump.
I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, “How do you know so much about this?” Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for President."
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I'm continuously amused that people don't understand the difference between a "selling face" and a "working face." Kinda furthers my belief that most people never negotiate for anything in their life, and simply take the sticker price.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
And who didn't botch it? No one. Everyone has botched this in some way. The president is a hypocrite in this regard. Trump closed the door to China, but it was only a screen door as he allowed US residents who were in China to come back without quarantine even though they may have been carriers. He's been giving nonsense information about the virus from the start, most likely because he doesn't really understand what the experts are talking about. Since he's addicted to standing in front of a mic he just keeps talking when he really would have a much better image if he moved to the background on this.
When was it clear this was a pandemic? (Score:5, Interesting)
And who didn't botch it? No one. Everyone has botched this in some way. The president is a hypocrite in this regard. Trump closed the door to China, but it was only a screen door as he allowed US residents who were in China to come back without quarantine even though they may have been carriers. He's been giving nonsense information about the virus from the start, most likely because he doesn't really understand what the experts are talking about. Since he's addicted to standing in front of a mic he just keeps talking when he really would have a much better image if he moved to the background on this.
Mostly just quoting you against the censorious trolls. They certainly are well organized and energetic on this topic.
Substantively, Trump is looking for someone to blame for his incompetence, and if Slashdot mattered, then I would speculate he's finally found a plausible scapegoat. Since Slashdot doesn't matter, I'll reserve judgment for now.
I strongly suspect the consensus of the doctors about is quite different, but maybe they don't matter either. Maybe I've just had too many dealings with them over the years? I don't actually like the way they talk, but I respect the awkwardness of the positions they so often find themselves in. Doctors hate to give out concrete diagnoses until they are quite certain, and on that basis I wasn't surprised WHO waited to say the big P word. (Also, I had looked up the definition and found plenty of wiggle room there.)
My chief problem with this is different. I think we need more and improved international cooperation to deal with future epidemics and pandemics. I am quite unable to see how this apparent temper tantrum will advance that goal.
Trolls don't want you to read this (Score:4, Informative)
It's possible that he's a narcissistic moron, but his actions are consistent with those of a Russian agent. Of course, those possibilities aren't mutually exclusive.
Whenever Trump proposes something, my first reaction is to say to myself "Now how does he intent that to harm the country?". Usually I have no trouble coming up with an answer.
N.B. His actions never seem to harm Russia. Sometimes China or many other places, but not Russia. But I can't imagine how Mr. "Grab 'em by the pussy" could be blackmailed. I suppose bribery or extortion are possibilities.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
First the WHO said there's no clear evidence of human to human transmission
Would you shut up. On January 23rd the WHO stated in their situation report [who.int]:
There is now more evidence that 2019-nCoV spreads from human-to-human and also across generations of cases.
The WHO botched this from the get go, from every single angle.
Bullshit. The WHO kept everyone informed based on what they received from countries. If the countries didn't report something, how would you like the WHO to have notified everyone else?
The only one who botched this from the get go was the con artist who denied there was a problem, everything was under control, the numbers would definitely be going down, and that his failed administration was doing a great job keeping the numbers down, not to mention he really understands this stuff [imgur.com].
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
The WHO definitely made some wrong calls. But they did so on the basis of limited information, and they didn't want to be seen as alarmist.
They also are constrained to act in a way that keeps their political channels of information open. Sometimes this means not making public accusations that have no medical value.
The thing about not wearing masks was made in the context of a really limited number of professional quality masks, and not wanting the public to take them from those most in need of them. Which was happening. They weren't talking about simple cloth face coverings.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
But you blame trump for listening to them.
No. We blame Trump for doing *far less* than the WHO suggested, for dismantling the frameworks we had to track epidemics abroad and in the US that would have verified or repudiated the WHO information in a timely manner, and for playing to whole thing off as a Democratic conspiracy.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes yes. It is definitely not Chinese lies and propaganda because Taiwan isn't a country. Duh. Taiwan's warning in FUCKING DECEMBER should be ignored because China says so. Oh Taiwan not suffering the from Chinese lies via WHO like ever other country? Maybe because Taiwan understands what it means to trust Chinese communist shit government. It's too bad that stupid westerners in love with the Chinese boot do not understand the shit China is willing to do and would rather play politics with orange man.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:4, Informative)
> How the FUCK did Taiwan know?
"They didn't let us see what they didn't want us to see, but our experts sensed the situation was not optimistic," Kolas Yotaka, a Taiwanese government representative [businessinsider.com]
In a nutshell. Taiwan understands the Chinese communist shit government since their exile and more so from SARS for infectious disease and Chinese lies. Taiwan took action when it was just a unusual case of pneumonia. Taiwan sent independent experts to China to assess the situation and to find the truth that China was suppressing that WHO was parroting.
Taiwan tried to warn the world but the WHO, acting at behest of China, ignored it.
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Bullshit. The WHO kept everyone informed based on what they received from countries. If the countries didn't report something, how would you like the WHO to have notified everyone else?
OK, so China should be condemned?
The only one who botched this from the get go was the con artist who denied there was a problem, everything was under control, the numbers would definitely be going down, and that his failed administration was doing a great job keeping the numbers down, not to mention he really understands this stuff
So don't blame China? Logical. Flawlessly logical.
Remember when President Trump was condemned as a "racist" and a "xenophobe" for doing this? Good times, good times.
US declares health emergency, bans most travelers from China [mercurynews.com]
PUBLISHED: January 31, 2020 at 2:43 p.m. | UPDATED: March 13, 2020 at 8:08 a.m.
The United States on Friday declared a public health emergency and announced significant entry restrictions because of a new virus that hit China and has spread to other nations.
Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, who is coordinating the federal response, announced that President Donald Trump has signed an order that will temporarily bar entry to the U.S. of foreign nationals, other than immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents, who have traveled in China within the last 14 days. The new restrictions take effect at 5 p.m. EST on Sunday.
“It is likely that we will continue to see more cases in the United States in the coming days and weeks, including some limited person-to-person transmissions,” Azar said. “The American public can be assured the full weight of the U.S. government is working to safeguard the health and safety of the American people.”
Americans returning from China will be allowed into the country, but will face screening at select ports of entry and required to undertake 14 days of self-screening to ensure they don’t pose a health risk. Those returning from Hubei province, the center of the outbreak, will be subject to up to 14 days of mandatory quarantine.
Beginning Sunday, the U.S. will also begin funneling all flights to the U.S. from China to seven major airports where passengers can be screened for illness.
"I don't take responsibility at all" (Score:3)
You forgot what I regard as the most revealing quote. Applies to all of his mistakes as Trump sees the world.
However mostly I think you're just feeding a troll. This topic has attracted an unusually large murder of crows.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
So what would you have them said when the *preliminary* investigation found no *clear* evidence? Lie about it?
Do you retards understand how science works? No *clear* evidence didn't mean "no evidence", it mean the evidence wasn't clear *at that time*.
When they had the evidence, they published it in the report immediately.
Trump also said the cases in the US would go down when there were only 15 cases, and said it would disappear like a miracle. Why don't you also repeat that?
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
First the WHO said there's no clear evidence of human to human transmission...
No, they were explicitly clear. They said the Chinese said that. They were reporting what they had been told. They did not make an independent determination.
At the end of JANUARY WHO declared "public health emergency of international concern".
then they said there's no need to wear masks.
Our current surgeon general basically echoed WHO's sentiment: "They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus"
A lot of people were saying that. People are *still* saying it. I still don't have any clue where to even find any substantive evidence on the matter one way or another. There appear to be no serious studies on the efficacy of any type of mask WRT to coronavirus or substantially similar proxies. There does not even seem to be any substantive information on viral loading necessary to cause infection.
Then as Italy was under siege, they STILL didn't want to call this a pandemic.
Back in January they removed any and all excuses for the worlds governments to continue to sit on their hands. The WHO was late on the pandemic declaration front but everyone saw what was going on it was just a formality that meant nothing.
The WHO botched this from the get go, from every single angle.
YES they most certainly did and NONE if it was in any way an excuse for inaction on the part of any government.
Turns out to have been completely accurate. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, what WHO said on January 14 was: "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission". That was completely true on January 14, because China was lying about human-to-human transmission.
On January 14 59 of the 60 reported cases in the world were from Wuhan, and all the cases were connected to the now infamous Huanan Seafood Market. That had to have been a lie as well. People on the ground back in December had known about human-to-human transmission, including Dr. Li Wenliang. That meant there had to have been cases not connected to the market.
China finally reported evidence of human to human transmission to WHO six days later, on January 20, which coincided with two events. (1) A new case in Taiwan that could be traced to Wuhan, but not any wet market; and (2) the arrival of WHO's field team in Wuhan. That very same day WHO announced that human to human transmission was a concern.
None of this affected the US response, because the US knew about human to human transmission long before January 14. DIA had been monitoring the outbreak since November 2019, and had included a warning about its pandemic potential in the January 3 Presidential Daily Brief.
As for the pandemic pronouncement, that didn't affect our preparations either. It's not like WHO can tell us what to do and not do in our own public health response; and we knew everything they did and more. The reason they delayed the pandemic declaration is that most countries don't have their own CDC, capable of responding to information in real time. They depend on WHO. A WHO declaration of "pandemic" triggers a switch in those countries from containment to mitigation.
So they declared pandemic when there was basically no point in trying to prevent virus from entering your borders anymore. They'd been saying the declaration was coming for weeks.
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Both the WHO and Trump are so broken I am surprised Trump isn't running the WHO.
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I detect a pathetic little fucker that desperately seeks for somebody to blame other than his demented mass-killer idol.
The one good thing about Covid-19 is that people like you make it very obvious now who you are.
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Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:3)
I bet 10 to 1 WHO leader
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
Connection to Tigray Peoples Liberation Front is a central part of the behind the scenes story being told in Trump circles. Would love to hear a good interview with him on it, but the actual issue is this:
https://news.yahoo.com/why-us-... [yahoo.com]
The US attacking global health in light of the above is strange.
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[The WHO is] however, doing their job which is far better than them not doing their job.
Is it the job of the WHO to say "it's okay for China to open their 'wet markets'"?
https://www.kusi.com/i/the-latest-australia-critiques-reopening-wuhan-wet-markets/ [kusi.com]
Two days after they publicly called on China to keep the "wet markets" closed in the name of health?
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/coronavirus-who-urges-china-to-close-dangerous-wet-market-as-stalls-in-wuhan-begin-to-reopen/ar-BB12z3ip [msn.com]
Wasn't it the job o
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Here is the actual contents of the email.
Start of email sent on the 31st of December.
-----
News resources today indicate that at least seven atypical pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, CHINA. Their health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not SARS; however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment.
I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us.
Thank you very much in advance for your attention to this m
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
I have only a superficial understanding of what's going on
Seconded. Indeed, you have at best a superficial understanding of what is going on.
what good is it to give our money to an organization that doesn't do its job?
It is doing its job. It's not doing a perfect job, but then, who or what is? You don't defund the military because it failed to win in Vietnam, or Afganistan, or wherever. You don't defund the police despite crime still happening. You don't defund the FAA despite the 737MAX. You don't shut down school despite the existence of uninformed people.
It's easy to point out things that could have been done better in hindsight. The WHO arguably was slow in labelling the outbreak as a pandemic. But then, it had a clear definition what a pandemic is. It declared the CODID-19 outbreak a pandemic on March 11th - at that time, 2/3rds of all cases were in China (i.e. localized).
The WHO has provided working tests for the virus early on - that the US did not use them, but used its own faulty tests is not something you can blame on them. Nor that the internal organisation of the US was so lousy that even after they got working tests, they failed to provide enough and process them efficiently.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:4, Insightful)
Trump threatened to defund NATO as they are one of the only members meeting their spending commitments. So yes you can defund the military for political reasons. In the Ukraine, the police was so corrupt they had to start again. They absolutely defunded the police force (militsiya). And there are certainly scandal rocked schools that got shut down.
The WHO, who had at one point Robert Mugabe as its "good will ambassador", has gotten everything catatrophically wrong. They can hardly claim budget constraints. They get $4.3tn per year. Even overlooking epic corruption, if they can't do the one thing they are paid to do then that money is being wasted. Personally I don't blame Trump for demanding an investigation as to where American tax payers money is going.
Phillip.
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if they [the WHO] can't do the one thing they are paid to do
Ignoring the fact that they are doing a pretty good (not perfect) job on the Corona crisis, the claim that they are paid to do "one thing" should be enough to advertise your lack of information. The WHO has e.g. lead the successful campaign to eradicate smallpox, and it is leading the campaign against polio (which has reduced the incidence to some few extremely unstable areas of the world, in which health workers cannot safely operate). The also run campaigns dealing with AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria, and
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
I have only a superficial understanding of what's going on, but so far I'm seeing Trump's point of view: what good is it to give our money to an organization that doesn't do its job?
Let's talk about the job of the WHO: The WHO is not some independent body going around country to country and looking in their hospitals. They are a global organisation that looks at data provided to them by governments and then gives advice based on that. They have neither the authority nor the capability to go and independently audit a country and their hospitals (though ironically they could do so with *more* funding).
So what do you do as the WHO? Taiwan *allegedly* claims there is a massive coronavirus outbreak in China (before coronavirus was identified funnily enough), and China says no. Who do you believe? Do you trust a country knowingly battling with another country on some unprovable accusation and get highly political, or do you have a little faith in data that you're given?
If you disagree with me, what am I missing?
You're missing the fact that the WHO is not some organisation to achieve your political goal. They aren't some organisation to impose the will of the west on China. They do not make policy for *any* country, and they have no legal authority in *any* country. What you're missing is what the WHO does, how it works, and that they rely on data from governments. They are no more a Chinese mouthpiece than they are an American mouthpiece, or an Iranian mouthpiece.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
All your witnessing is Trump's attempts to deflect any responsibility from himself onto another party.
As of Feb 28th he was still calling it a Democrat hoax. On Mar 9th he still was downplaying it.
Donald J. Trump Verified Account
@realDonaldTrump
The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.”
4:20 AM - 9 Mar 2020
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Added to that, the WHO did a decent job by listening to China and passing on that information.
So the US not listening to China because enemy and WHO taking China seriously is now being translated as 'we didn't know because China lied and WHO repeated their lies'. OK.
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politic... [go.com]
This is probably why there's a WHO distraction at the moment. It was recently revealed that high-level US officials knew there was an outbreak as far back as November. This looks bad for Trump's administration, so it's the perfect time to deflect attention away from that with some flashy blame shifting.
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He now says he knew it was going to be bad, but at the time he was saying that it would all be good.
No, he restricted travel from China, but only after the virus was already spreading endemically in the US. After he "banned" travel from China, around 40,000 people traveled from China into the US. And he didn't restrict travel from Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao, or Europe at that time, even t
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
They are, however, doing their job which is far better than them not doing their job. [...] Shutting off funding to the WHO in the middle of a fucking pandemic is Donald Trump level stupidity.
I get that many here are taken in by the bait and switch propaganda and honestly believe that the WHO did something wrong. However, the parent post has a legitimate, reasonable and under-represented view. Modding it down into oblivion is a really bad way to debate. How about answering it instead? Currently the WHO is the only fully agreed upon international organisation distributing health information from country to country.
When inquiries into the epidemic come about in many different countries this move is very likely to be part of the evidence that the US had a part in the blame for all of the deaths that are likely going to happen in places like India and South America. This is not the right timing even if it is a right move. You want to have an alternative ready to go.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
>They are, however, doing their job which is far better than them not doing their job.
Unfortunately, that is likely false. If there was no WHO, much of the world wouldn't have "official UN entity telling them there is no human to human transition, there is no pandemic, there is no need to close borders" and so on. That would have changed power balance in political circles from "keep it open regardless of risk" globalists to "risk is too high, we should lock borders down just in case" nationalists.
And if this shift of power balance was sufficient to tip the scales toward border lockdowns earlier, it would have likely led to arresting of pandemic at much earlier stage and saved a lot of lives and prevented need for current levels of societal lockdown. In this regard, WHO operating the way it did was a significant net negative on the societal response to the current pandemic.
Which in turn needs to be contrasted against the benefits of WHO, such as providing additional channels for international information exchange. But claim that is made above that "doing their job which is far better than them not doing their job" is simply false. This is the case where if they just sat early stage out with "we have no idea what's going on and whatever information we're being fed by Communist Party of China is not conclusive or reliable to give advice" instead of "just doing their jobs and effectively running political cover for CCP in early stages of pandemic", net outcome would almost certainly have been better.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why shouldn't the US review the quality and reliability of an organization we send money to each year?
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Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:3)
This isn't a review. This is just scapegoating to cover the fact that Trumps unpicking of health means more will die there than elsewhere. US already leading on deaths.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
They should do that, yes.
But they should do it calmly and after review, not in the middle of a pandemic as a cheap excuse try to to divert attention away from the basic incompetence of the current president.
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WHO can get funding from China since they are so willing to promote China lies and propaganda.
What basis does the WHO have for not following China's official stance? They are an organisation that exists solely to analyse government provided data. If you want to get political, get political, but that's not the WHO's job. They are not an international regulator body, they are not an independent assessor, they are an organisation that analysis official data and makes recommendations.
Criticise China for their r
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Informative)
America is the WHO's biggest single funder, providing $400m (£316m) last year - just under 15% of its total budget.
I don't know if I am more shocked by how low their budget is, or, this stunt Trump is pulling.
Americas contribution is less than Larry Ellison's annual dividend. We just have to make good friends with Larry then sorted.
Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's $400m - which is small change compared to the half a trillion spent on defense... Those F-35s aren't much good against COVID-19
This is another classic Trump big gesture to look tough, unfortunately the US is a dying power and doesn't realize it yet. Although it is true Europe hasn't realized it is dying either and the UK, is just stupid
The WHO will play a tiny violin for the loss of that funding - which I imagine will cost the US more to get out of the contractual agreements - and lawyers will make money as usual
I will be glad when we can automate lawyers out of a job
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They work for China. Let China fund them.
Right now many of their experts and much of their management comes from the US. If China is funding them then they will work for China. Trust me, after this pathetic attempt to use the WHO as a distraction from Trumps failure this will become part of China's outreach to try to take over less powerful countries and turn them against the US, especially in Africa.
To show that your accusations against China and the WHO are in good faith, there's a simple question I have asked now several times on Slashdot. C
Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
Europe coped better with the same WHO information, you obvious liar. More are dying in US. That is on US leadership, your failure-in-chief, blood on his hands.
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And what exactly did they do with that early action? Nothing. Through out February Trump continued to say that the virus was about to go away. He didn't bother to use the time to ramp up the production of PPE (by implementing the Defense Production Act) or encourage the production of ventilators. He didn't encourage isolation to limit the spread of the virus. Basically he didn't do anything but talk about how great he was handling the situation and how great the stock market was doing (or going to recover w
Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Funny)
Trump is a mentally ill person, narcissistic personality disorder. He projects. Whatever he's done wrong, he blames others for the same things.
A prerequisite for NPD is to be a psychopath, which he is. He simply doesn't care about other people, only about himself.
Trump is a pathological liar, which narcissists usually are. Also, he is very arrogant. NPD people can be charming, and you have fun for two weeks, and then the nightmare starts.
Trump knows he fucked up, and be blamed almost everybody and everything he could think of, cycling trough a lie after lie. The WHO blame is just the latest.
Wow, that's quite a thorough diagnosis of someone you have never met, Dr. Mestar.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: WHO said WHAT? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can't see it, you are the stupid one.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:5, Insightful)
NO.
You are a Fucking ignrant asshole or a liar [factcheck.org]. You choose.
Re:WHO said WHAT? (Score:4, Informative)
Fuck You [factcheck.org]
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From the tweet you linked:
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China
Also note the date: Jan 14.
So (a) consider the actual source, (b) it was relatively early in the epidemic, and (c) yeah, not a good look for the WHO in any case, but let's be clear about who (sic) said what.
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It is really crazy to hear complaints of China allegedly undercounting and reporting cases when we are doing the same on a vast scale.
We're not under-counting, per say, as much as under-testing, which in the thinking man's statistical gambit is the difference between having everyone think you're an idiot, and speaking to remove all doubt.