Brazil Says It Will Reject Millions in Amazon Aid Pledged at G7 (nytimes.com) 240
Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro has ruled out accepting a G7 offer of aid to fight fires in the Amazon rainforest unless he gets an apology from his French counterpart, Emmanuel Macron. From a report: Hours after leaders of some of the world's wealthiest countries pledged more than $22 million to help combat fires in the Amazon rainforest, Brazil's government angrily rejected the offer, in effect telling the other nations to mind their own business -- only to later lay out potential terms for the aid's acceptance. President Jair Bolsonaro of Brazil expressed his ire in a series of Twitter posts on Monday, and specifically criticized and taunted President Emmanuel Macron of France, who had announced the aid package at the Group of 7 summit meeting. Their comments extended a verbal feud between the two leaders.
But early the next day, Mr. Bolsonaro offered possible terms for the acceptance of the aid package when he spoke to reporters in the capital, Brasilia. He said that if Mr. Macron withdrew "insults made to my person," and what Mr. Bolsonaro interpreted as insinuations that Brazil does not have sovereignty over the Amazon, he would reconsider. "To talk or accept anything from France, even with their very best intentions, he will have to withdraw his words, and then we can talk," Mr. Bolsonaro said. "First he withdraws them, then he makes the offer, and then I'll answer."
Mr. Bolsonaro, who has suggested earlier that Mr. Macron's real motive is to shield France's agriculture from Brazilian competition, had tweeted on Monday that the president "disguises his intentions behind the idea of an 'alliance' of the G7 countries to 'save' the Amazon, as if we were a colony or a no-man's land." His chief of staff, Onyx Lorenzoni, told the Globo broadcast network that the administration would be turning down the offer, and insulted Mr. Macron with a reference to the fire that gutted the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris in April. The Brazilian government later confirmed his comments, Globo reported.
But early the next day, Mr. Bolsonaro offered possible terms for the acceptance of the aid package when he spoke to reporters in the capital, Brasilia. He said that if Mr. Macron withdrew "insults made to my person," and what Mr. Bolsonaro interpreted as insinuations that Brazil does not have sovereignty over the Amazon, he would reconsider. "To talk or accept anything from France, even with their very best intentions, he will have to withdraw his words, and then we can talk," Mr. Bolsonaro said. "First he withdraws them, then he makes the offer, and then I'll answer."
Mr. Bolsonaro, who has suggested earlier that Mr. Macron's real motive is to shield France's agriculture from Brazilian competition, had tweeted on Monday that the president "disguises his intentions behind the idea of an 'alliance' of the G7 countries to 'save' the Amazon, as if we were a colony or a no-man's land." His chief of staff, Onyx Lorenzoni, told the Globo broadcast network that the administration would be turning down the offer, and insulted Mr. Macron with a reference to the fire that gutted the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris in April. The Brazilian government later confirmed his comments, Globo reported.
I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Funny)
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The politics of Brazil is something most of us could scarcely imagine.
Brazil has a longstanding problem with abandoned children on the street begging, stealing and turning to prostitution. The county's response was the formation of private death squads in which the police took an active part.
Bolsonaro was elected in response to an influx of Venezuelan refugees. He has a long history of inciting public violence and advocating for dictatorship, and his son has ties to death squads. He's often compared to T
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Perhaps not. There have been suggestions that Brazil is being ineffective in fighting the fires to enable clearing the Amazon jungle and its people.
OTOH, about a decade ago there were reports that we should be expecting the Amazon jungle to die because of changing weather patterns (increased dryness) due to global warming. So it might just be "expected causes".
That said, and whatever the reason, as the Amazon jungle dies, we should expect the increasing dryness to cause more of the jungle to die. (The ju
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Unfortunately, this guy has really bad aim and half of the punches hit somebody else. Otherwise one more self-destructive moron would not make much of a difference.
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Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Insightful)
they responded by calling him a child.
Maybe they shouldn't be insulting him.
Bolsonaro is a Trump-style populist. You don't get people like that to cooperate by insulting them.
Instead, you make them think a policy was their own idea, and you let them take full credit for it.
Macron has no children, so he has no experience dealing with spoiled brats. He needs to learn to set his ego aside, and focus on goals. Someone in the room has to be the adult, and it isn't going to be Bolsonaro.
Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Interesting)
Are you all talking about Bolsonaro making a "rude" remark about Macrons wife and Macron calling him out (an incident where no one was called a child) https://www.bbc.com/news/world... [bbc.com] or are you referring to something else?
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You get him to cooperate, like the mining and ranching industries do, which is filling his pockets with money that comes at the expense of the rest of the planet...
Yeah, I know hard to follow that act
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You get him to cooperate, like the mining and ranching industries do, which is filling his pockets with money that comes at the expense of the rest of the planet...
Looks like the thin veneer of bullshit has slid off of that one, with Macron openly stating that the "powers that be" should unilaterally seize the Amazon from Brazil and put it under their management. Boy doesn't that just stink to shit and back.
Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Funny)
Macron has no children, so he has no experience dealing with spoiled brats. He needs to learn to set his ego aside, and focus on goals. Someone in the room has to be the adult, and it isn't going to be Bolsonaro.
I'm no parent, either, but are you saying that the way to deal with a spoiled brat is to give them what they want?
Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Interesting)
are you saying that the way to deal with a spoiled brat is to give them what they want?
Make them think that what you want them to do, is what they want to do.
I got my son to eat his broccoli by telling him there was only enough for his sister, so he couldn't have any.
Diplomacy (Score:3)
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Most kids are little shitheads. It's a matter of how good a parent you are that will determine how much of a shithead they'll be.
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they responded by calling him a child.
Maybe they shouldn't be insulting him.
Bolsonaro is a Trump-style populist. You don't get people like that to cooperate by insulting them.
Instead, you make them think a policy was their own idea, and you let them take full credit for it.
Macron has no children, so he has no experience dealing with spoiled brats. He needs to learn to set his ego aside, and focus on goals. Someone in the room has to be the adult, and it isn't going to be Bolsonaro.
Hey - I'll take that money, and Macron can call me anything he wants.
Hard to imagine Brazil having any problems at all with level headed people like Bolsanaro at the helm. Logical and intelligent, apparently emplaced by God, thye only apology he is owed is not giving his parents birth control.
This paragon of higher thought has said - "apologize, or I shall be happy to let my country burn. " A person like that probablyt has his own pockets to line before spending any on fighting his burning country.
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Those are in short supply of late. World summits are starting to resemble Lord of the Flies.
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Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Funny)
Those are in short supply of late. World summits are starting to resemble Lord of the Flies.
It's not that bad. Not every nation has a weirdo leader like Trump. Or Johnson, or Bolsonaro, or Kim Jong-Un, or Duterte, or Erdogan, or.. oh. Hmm. I see what you mean.
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Instead, you make them think a policy was their own idea, and you let them take full credit for it.
Better if we could contain their "policies" inside their borders. But since we can't, we must assert our right to do something. An invasion of firebombers for starters.
This guy is blowing make in our faces! Who is going to stop him?!
He should compile first.
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You put them in the corner and made them think about what they did, then make them apologize for THEIR behavior.
Bolsonaro is the elected head-of-state of a sovereign nation.
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Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:4, Interesting)
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Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Interesting)
Ah yes, the old "tu quoque" logical fallacy.
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People like to treat international politics like personal relationships/interactions. They aren't. Fairness means nothing, "looking like a douchebag" means nothing. It's all about power and getting things done in the best interests of your own citizens (current crop of Democratic candidates mostly notwithstanding).
Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:4, Funny)
Why not reforest Europe to replace the Amazon?
If they start with Brussels, I'll donate to the project.
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It's more than Oxygen. It's much more complex than that.
We *really Will be fucked* without plants of diverse kinds. You want Mars? remove all the plant life.
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Re:I'll keep punching my face (Score:5, Insightful)
OFFS, GTFO, the only 'recent investigations' that point to anything like that are just Bolsonaro trying to cover his tracks
At the same time, Bolsonaro has PREVENTED Brazil's own agencies from overseeing settlers around the fringes of the Amazon, dispense any judgments of fines against them, and at the same time ENCOURAGED people to tear into the Amazon for short term profits
You see, Populists like Bolsonaro (Trump also) seek to pay people off with short term results, while padding their own pockets for the long term
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You know what I find odd? NO ONE is talking about Bolivia.
There is more amazon burning in Bolivia than there is in Brazil.
Oh, but Bolivia has a socialist president, and bolsonaro is "the same as Trump".
Not a coincidence.
BTW, Morales signed a decree allowing "Controlled burning" of forests.
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It's very clear to us, brazillians, that the NGOs did this.
Could you explain what is meant by NGOs (non-governmental organizations) here? I've seen the term in recent articles about the Brazilian fires but I'm not sure exactly what is implied (I'm sure they are not rouge soccer teams). Are they specifically local organisations that get foreign support to conserve the rainforest, local mafia or?
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All kinds of entities can pledge financial aid to develop their conservation projects in the area. A big fund is run by a federal agency with donations mainly from Norway and Germany. Bolsonaro is the like that thinks gringos want to steal our riches and tell our way to live, so he cut the funds to those NGOs.
http://www.fundoamazonia.gov.b... [fundoamazonia.gov.br]
Look up how much Norway already donated and compare to all the hysteria about 20mi more.
A Brazilian Donald Trump (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: A Brazilian Donald Trump (Score:2, Insightful)
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The original desire to buy Greenland was repeated first by the press (WSJ I think?). It just spilled out over to Twitter.
That said I wouldn't discount Twitter as a place to discuss matters of policy. A few months ago AOC and Ted Cruz realized they had common ground in wanting to end the revolving door of Congress -> lobbying firms, and got bipartisan colleagues in the Senate and House on board, all on Twitter. Of course, this will go nowhere because most members of our Legislature like the golden para
Morons everywhere! (Score:2, Insightful)
So here we have worldwide concern about a burning Amazon and zero concern for all of the other burning done around the world that totals far more than this collectively.
We also have a butt hurt tool bag running the project that wants people to apologize for insulting him personally before he will talk again.
Children are running the world and many people are worshiping them instead of throwing them out.
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The whole 'system' is rotten to the core, and throughout most of history, always has been.
I don't see this changing anytime soon, or even ever. We will be led by the words from the mouths of babes forever more.
Re:Morons everywhere! (Score:4, Interesting)
Brazil wants the farming dollars from China thanks to US tariffs, and needs to jump on it quickly.
How do you spell (Score:2)
"Big Ego"?
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More like "spoiled child". Children in adult bodies seem to be a mark of the times.
Embargo Brazilian Goods (Score:5, Insightful)
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Except we like cheap beef, and won't worry about the wide scale environmental impact until it's already upon us. You see, humans are fucking morons. Here and there are some bright ones, but none of the bright ones ever actually get a chance to be in charge. Instead it's evil hot headed halfwits who tell even duller-witted people what they want to hear who get into power.
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You'd think they could just put a 30% tariff on Brazilian beef
Hey! I already pay enough for my Brazilian prostitutes!
With a 30% tariff . . . I will switch to east Europeans!
Re:Embargo Brazilian Goods (Score:5, Informative)
France, the Netherlands and Luxembourg are already considering dropping the EU - MERCOSUR free trade agreement.
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The Democrats have got it all wrong. We need to stop trying to protect people from themselves, and instead let Darwin prune the idiots out of the gene pool.
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Except we like cheap beef
How would we like something we've never had? Beef is insanely expensive in Europe compared to much of the world.
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Except we like cheap beef, and won't worry about the wide scale environmental impact until it's already upon us. You see, humans are fucking morons. Here and there are some bright one ho tell even duller-witted people what they want to hear who get into power.
Dude, the second coming of god has decided climate change is a Chines hoax and doubting that is blasphemy!!!
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This has to do with the price of beans in china (Score:2)
One of the pressures on the Amazon has been the chinese tarrifs on soy beans have prompted a 27% shift from the US the brazil. Farmers therefore clear more land for the increased demand.
In the long run with climate change the amazon will be gone anyhow, replaced by a monsoon rejeuvenated sahara forest as the worlds carbon sink. A few thousand years ago there was no greater amazon forest, it was smaller and a lot of savanah. Meanwhile the sahara was a forest. Rain fell in different places. Current long r
How? (Score:2)
In all seriousness an embargo would suit the right wing nationalistic government just fine. Short of regime change there are probably better diplomatic tools.
I hear Bolsonaro is running a big deficit (Score:2, Funny)
Last I read, in the print edition of the Wall Street Journal, Brazil is running a big deficit.
Probably related to all the bedbugs in the Presidential Palace.
He needs to man up and apologize to Macron.
Macron is a self-serving idiot (Score:2, Interesting)
The brazilians burn their rainforest, under express orders
Re:Macron is a self-serving idiot (Score:5, Informative)
The brazilians burn their rainforest, under express orders from their new government, to have room for cash crops (soy, palmoil) and to raise cattle.
I have not previously seen the claim that it is "under express orders from their new government", nor can I find it elsewhere, care to help me out with a link?
Re:Macron is a self-serving idiot (Score:4, Funny)
would, "pulled out of their own butt" be adequate citation?
The new breed of populist politicians ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Bolsanaro is Trump, Latin America version ...
He mocked Macron's wife. No common decency, no decorum, no respect for his office.
And he wants Macron to apologize! For what? For exposing that he does not care about the environment (he campaigned on that).
Sadly, this new breed of aggressive, apparently macho, politicians who employ populist techniques is gaining in popularity. It plays into their constituents: "he is genuine", "does not mince words", "says it like it is", "talks from the heart", and so on. Add to that "tough on Iran", "tough on China", "tough on the West" and you have people who go with this rhetoric and we end up with these destructive leaders ...
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You are a lying piece of shit:
What Bolsonaro did was just replying to the insult by insult.
Re:The new breed of populist politicians ... (Score:5, Informative)
Classy that name calling ...
Did you ever check out Bolsanaro's positions before he took office?
I did ...
Here are articles from 2018, before he took office on January 1st.
October 2018 How Brazil's Bolsonaro threatens the planet [washingtonpost.com]
October 2018 Jair Bolsonaro's Brazil would be a disaster for the Amazon and global climate change [theconversation.com]
Brazil's new far-right president Bolsonaro risks turning environmental champions into "climate rogues", experts say [independent.co.uk]
When he took office, he reduced funding to NGOs, just like the article above predicted.
November 2018 Brazil's new foreign minister believes climate change is a Marxist plot [theguardian.com]
And when the Amazon fires started, he blamed the NGOs of setting the fires to embarrass him [theguardian.com] because he reduced their funding (Aug 21st, 2019).
Macron was merely pointing out all this. Bolsanaro was exposed, so what does he do? He claims this is all an insult, because, you know, facts clashed with his world view. He takes a cheap shot at Macron's wife, and demands an apology.
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You are a lying piece of shit:
What Bolsonaro did was just replying to the insult by insult.
So Macron pointed out that burning down the Amazon was a bad idea, which in your and Bolsonaro's opinion is an insult to which the only proper response is insulting Macron's wife? To the rest of us that's you and Bolsonaro being so shit out of counter arguments to the obvious truth of Macron's observation that neither one of you could think of a response other than "You think that my genius plan to burn down the biggest carbon sink on the planet is a bad idea? ... well ... uhhhh ... Your wife is so ugly tha
Re:The new breed of populist politicians ... (Score:5, Funny)
Bolsanaro is Trump, Latin America version ...
He mocked Macron's wife. No common decency, no decorum, no respect for his office. And he wants Macron to apologize! For what? For exposing that he does not care about the environment (he campaigned on that).
Sadly, this new breed of aggressive, apparently macho, politicians who employ populist techniques is gaining in popularity. It plays into their constituents: "he is genuine", "does not mince words", "says it like it is", "talks from the heart", and so on. Add to that "tough on Iran", "tough on China", "tough on the West" and you have people who go with this rhetoric and we end up with these destructive leaders ...
... and yet despite all of this apparent toughness it is remarkable how quickly and easily these right wing strong men manage turn into whining little bitches.
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It is by design: they play the victim, and always repeat that the majority in their country are being "oppressed".
Look at how Trump uses that: with choice of words like : "we have been taken advantage of", "we have been treated unfairly", ... Whether it is Canada's dairy market not being open to US farmers, or steel and aluminum from various countries
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I disagree. We end up with these utterly destructive and negative people in power, because they were voted into power. The thing that is really broken here are not the leaders, it is the voters that give their vote to these barbarians.
I'm butthurt... (Score:2)
I'm butthurt, so I'm going to let the Amazon rainforest burn to the ground! That'll show you all!!!
why give aid for choice (Score:3)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/0... [nytimes.com]
Like the silly plan to simply "pay fishermen to retire" in an effort to save endangered species:
https://www.hakaimagazine.com/... [hakaimagazine.com]
the reality comes back to the same question - how do you feed the world? People require food. food takes land. More people = more food = more land....
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You don't have to buy Brazilian beef.
Replace it with scrub-fed Bison from Canada and the USA and eat less red meat, try alternating chicken, fish, carbon-negative shellfish like mussels, oysters, and clams, and vegetable proteins.
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Stop. Making. So. Many. People.
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How else can you sustain the Ponzi Scheme of socialism without a newer, larger generation, to pay for the older generation?
Re:why give aid for choice (Score:4, Interesting)
Despite increasing population, most of the western world is increasing forest coverage and decreasing farmland as the remaining agricultural land becomes more productive and excess people move to cities. Many parts of the rest of the world also see this trend.
Why don't they just nuke it? (Score:2)
It is true Bolsonaro is really small (Score:2)
... in his ego.
Sad little man.
Pride (Score:2)
Mr. Bolsonaro offered possible terms for the acceptance of the aid package when he spoke to reporters in the capital, Brasilia. He said that if Mr. Macron withdrew "insults made to my person,"
Good golly, has it struck anyone that we seem to have a massive surplus of pride on this planet? How is it that there are so many thin skinned people running so many countries at once? It leaves one to wonder how we have global warming and yet so many snowflakes.
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And the worst part: Most of these are not dictators, most of them got voted into office by even more stupid people. The real problem is the voters, the utter disgraces they voted for are just a symptom.
My .02 (Score:2)
hey presidnet bossonaro (Score:2)
Alt-righters have a glass heart (Score:2)
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His chief of staff (Score:3)
I read most comments, looks like no one mentioned the last part of the post, the one with Bolsonaro's chief of staff comment.
"His chief of staff, Onyx Lorenzoni, told the Globo broadcast network that the administration would be turning down the offer, and insulted Mr. Macron with a reference to the fire that gutted the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris in April. The Brazilian government later confirmed his comments, Globo reported."
His comment was something like this:
"We appreciate, but maybe this resources are more relevant to reforest Europe. Macron couldn't even prevent an expected fire in a world heritage church, so what he expects to teach our country? He has too much to handle back home and in the french colonies."
This is typical of Bolsonaro's blind supporters.
When Germany and Norway pulled the aid from the amazon fund Bolsonaro comment on the same lines, "Norway, the one that kills whales up there in the north?" And posted on twitter a video from the Faroe Islands. Also on Germany, he said Merkel should reforest Germany with that money. The next day the german embassy posted a video on how well german forests are preserved.
The next day he says Brazil has no funds to fight widespread fires deep in the amazon, surreal.
This right wing populists are as much of a danger to the world as their left wing counterparts, they both make up stories, deny facts, and their blind supporters love to read about them on social media.
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This right wing populists are as much of a danger to the world as their left wing counterparts, they both make up stories, deny facts, and their blind supporters love to read about them on social media.
Essentially, populists of all colors are still populists at the core, they do not care about actual issues. Even "left" and "right" are misleading characterizations. And yes, populists are quite dangerous, as are the people that vote for them.
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Another piece of story that might not have hit the news worldwide.
Acre's governor, one of the states in the northern part of Brazil with some 85% of its area covered by the amazon rainforest, told supporters in May that anyone fined by HIS OWN environmental agency to ignore the fine and to let him know. He is the one hiring the agents, so he is in charge.
In August Acre declared state of emergency because of the fires...
Marcon should have shaken his hand more often (Score:2)
That direct-violence approach seems to have worked on Trump, after all.
Oh well.... sucks to be Brazil then. (Score:2)
Honestly, if the man is genuinely going to put his own personal pride ahead of what is probably best for his country, then that's just too darn bad. Frankly, I don't even care if the insults were deserved or not... if the guy is stupidly going to let his own country burn for the sake of "insults against his person", then by all means, let him do it.
I would keep the offer of monetary aid open, however.... Brazil may yet still change its mind at some point and accept the help despite previous confrontatio
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Part of becoming an adult is learning how to deal with hurt feelings, rather than allowing them to become an additional problem. That's how rational humans work together and get problems solved, rather than just constantly crying about their hurt feelings.
My recommendation is that people elect adults to positions of leadership, not adult-sized crying children.
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Yeah right. Heads of state have never been hotheads who make major decisions based on who they like and dislike.
That's why we invented diplomats, and try not to let the "leaders" actually talk to each other too much.
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And then some ass invented Twitter....
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While I don't disagree with what you say, I think you have to assume any politician's Twitter feed is a facade, not some kind of window into this inner thoughts.
So it's more likely to be calculated to arouse the ire of his followers and it is to be an expression of his own ire, and in any case these two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Monopoly?!?! (Score:2)
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I'd bet that if you could find out who has a monopoly on limestone, you'd find out who we're all really working for.
Re:Arrogance or burning forests (Score:2)
Um, dude, I live in Seattle, we can see forest fires over the mountains, but there's lots of trees on the West side of the Cascades ...
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Um, "dude", thats nice. What does that have to do with anything? We cleared out our country for living and agriculture already. So did Europe. So are we now going to tell Brazil they can't do the same?
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I have four of the country's largest national parks within sight of my house, they're all forested.
Maybe you burnt all your forests, but we still have quite a few.
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"The forest in Germany covers 11.4 million hectares, 32 percent of the total area of the country (as of 2012)."
Doesn't look small at all to me.
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Did you read what you just wrote? You want Donald "global warming is a chinese invention" Trump to save the world?
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