Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Twitter AI News Politics Technology

Why Won't Twitter Treat White Supremacy Like ISIS? Because It Would Mean Banning Some Republican Politicians Too. (vice.com) 925

Joseph Cox, and Jason Koebler, reporting for Motherboard: At a Twitter all-hands meeting on March 22, an employee asked a blunt question: Twitter has largely eradicated Islamic State propaganda off its platform. Why can't it do the same for white supremacist content? An executive responded by explaining that Twitter follows the law, and a technical employee who works on machine learning and artificial intelligence issues went up to the mic to add some context.

With every sort of content filter, there is a tradeoff, he explained. When a platform aggressively enforces against ISIS content, for instance, it can also flag innocent accounts as well, such as Arabic language broadcasters. Society, in general, accepts the benefit of banning ISIS for inconveniencing some others, he said. In separate discussions verified by Motherboard, that employee said Twitter hasn't taken the same aggressive approach to white supremacist content because the collateral accounts that are impacted can, in some instances, be Republican politicians. The employee argued that, on a technical level, content from Republican politicians could get swept up by algorithms aggressively removing white supremacist material. Banning politicians wouldn't be accepted by society as a trade-off for flagging all of the white supremacist propaganda, he argued.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Why Won't Twitter Treat White Supremacy Like ISIS? Because It Would Mean Banning Some Republican Politicians Too.

Comments Filter:
  • Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:43AM (#58489820)

    If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, ...

  • by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:45AM (#58489832)
    that the only reason they don't ban Trump for Terms of Service violations is that they won't ban world leaders. In other words a multi-tiered "justice" system (in quotes because it's not technically a Justice System since it's not a government).

    It's their system. They can make their own rules. But we should at least call out the hypocrisy when we see it.
    • Look, I'm all for calling out Twitter's bullshit (of which there has been plenty), but it's plenty reasonable to make an exception in the case for world leaders, particularly the POTUS. It's not just that they'd be shooting themselves in the foot and opening the door up to their competitors; it's that they cannot legitimately expect to "deny him a platform" in the case of the President... his views are gonna get out there one way or another. It would be the emptiest of virtue signaling gestures to ban him.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 25, 2019 @12:44PM (#58490406)

        It is not reasonable to make an exception for the President, it is entirely objectionable to the whole point of this nation, where the Executive is subordinate to the people.

        There is a reason why we don't have a king or monarch, why you do not refer to the President of the United States with any kind of honorific.

        Therefore, to treat the supposed resident of the White House as being beyond the rules is a gesture that shows how empty your supposed virtues are.

        If you can't play by the rules as everyone else, why should people not treat you as the clearly demented fuck-up you are?

        Explain that.

      • I disagree (Score:2, Insightful)

        by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
        platforming him is doing massive harm to the entire world. Trump refused to call out the Charlottesville rally [go.com]. He's back off on domestic terrorists [nbcnews.com] and it's pretty clear why. His comments on Mexicans are well known, as are his comments on Muslims.

        At a certain point Twitter is enabling him. Do I think Trump is a racist? No, he's an opportunist. But he's fanning the flames for cheap political points. Left unchecked he'll be followed by worse and worse leaders. We saw this when the overton window shifted u
      • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @02:55PM (#58491608) Homepage Journal

        They can deny him THEIR platform.

        They could also plaster a "WARNING: Hate Speech" banner above his tweets. Or if they don't want to risk being inflammatory, they could go with a more neutral "WARNING: In violation of one or more rules in our TOS".

    • As much as I hate the Orange One, PLEASE don't ban him from Twitter! I watch his feed for the huge lulz.

      Incredibly entertaining watching others flame him to a crisp in the responses to his tweets......

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by lgw ( 121541 )

      It's their system. They can make their own rules. But we should at least call out the hypocrisy when we see it.

      They certainly have a very different standard for left- and right-wing tweets. Trump gets tolerated like the lefties do. Is that hypocrisy?

      If you're idea of "white supremacist" includes "anywho who wants less immigration" or "anyone who doesn't like Islam", you're so far off the left end we're no longer really speaking the same language. And that's the only measure by which I know of any prominent "white supremacist" politicians: people who oppose immigration, or who oppose Islam.

  • Another question (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:46AM (#58489840)
    A non-employee would like to ask a blunt question: Twitter has largely eradicated Islamic State propaganda off its platform. Why can't it do the same for radical identity politics content, like calls for discrimination against white people or calls for discrimination against men?
    • Because if you do ... what the hell would be left?

    • Have you reported it?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Freedom of speech. ISIS are terrorists and actively trying to attack western countries. Identity politics is just politics you don't like, which is protected free speech. They are not remotely the same thing.

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        IS is all about identity politics. So is white supremacy.

        Their only difference with leftist identity politics is the identity of the enemies and the allies. Other than that, they are in complete agreement on methodology.

      • They are not remotely the same thing.

        I'm not so sure that's the case. After all, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. If you want to use a strict textbook definition, then Samuel Adams and other American founding fathers would almost certainly qualify as terrorists for some of their actions. You could also make the argument that radical identitarians (whether from the left or the right) could do as much or more to undermine or damage western countries as terrorist groups like ISIS that are more or less confined to acting withi

  • by Crashmarik ( 635988 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:47AM (#58489858)

    This is B.S.
    How many times has Louis Farakhan tweeted to kill whites or Jews ?
    They also took no action against Black Lives Matter calling for cop killings.
    I can't even begin to guess how many times people on the left have called for harassing men in general or white women and twitter does nothing.
    Hell they don't even remove the blue checkmarks of know racists as long as you are racist the right way
    Sarah Jeong anyone ?
    https://www.washingtontimes.co... [washingtontimes.com]

    • I do remember the really odd weekend when Israel was bombing the Hamas after some cease fire that they tried to extend, and the Hamas declined. For a weekend one of the top hashtags was "#HitlerWasRight". Come on psychopaths, don't be that way. Don't call for violence on men, women, whites, blacks, Asians, etc. The only violence we need now is for the entire planet to explode so this can all stop.
  • by Brett Buck ( 811747 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:49AM (#58489876)

    First it was the Russians (who have no proven do have done nothing more than the expected dirty tricks using social media), and now it is "white supremacists".

            Despite what you might read - there aren't any consequential "white supremacists" in the USA. There are a few pathetic neo-Nazis, who understand the basics of socialism/Fascism about as well as they understand quantum mechanics. They think wearing swastika armbands are cool because it shocks people, and are generally, and for good reason, threatened by anyone with even a spark of initiative. But they are utter and complete non-players in politics, they have exactly zero influence on anything, and are roundly condemned by everyone, universally.

            This attempt to link them with Republicans is another tedious example of playing politics with sophistry. They (and most of the readers here) want to have it drag in Republicans because that's their political goal. Republicans are generally, and in fact, almost never, "white supremecists" and are only caught by redefining the concept.

    • WTH? You purposely ignore the Klan to make your point.
    • Despite what you might read - there aren't any consequential "white supremacists" in the USA.

      How many people have to be victims of hate crimes perpetrated by white supremacists before they are considered "consequential"?

    • by naris ( 830549 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @03:20PM (#58491768)
      Well... Except for Steve King, Donald Trump and a host of other GOP politicians and quite a lot of their supporters
    • by PhrostyMcByte ( 589271 ) <phrosty@gmail.com> on Thursday April 25, 2019 @03:38PM (#58491902) Homepage

      This attempt to link them with Republicans is another tedious example of playing politics with sophistry.

      The massive majority of Republicans are not white supremacists.

      ... but, the massive majority of white supremacists are voting Republican. Clearly, something in the party appeals to them.

      ... and sometimes, it seems like Republican voters are okay with voting in politicians who are clearly bigoted or at least unwilling to take a stance on bigoted groups.

      This isn't a little outlier or a perception brought on by leftist propaganda. The Republican party has a problem.

      • by CronoCloud ( 590650 ) <[cronocloudauron] [at] [gmail.com]> on Thursday April 25, 2019 @05:23PM (#58492616)

        They've been turning a blind eye to racism/nativism and white supremacy for decades now. Nixon with the Southern Strategy. Reagan with his non-existent "welfare queen", Bush with Willie Horton. (the furlough scheme was Republican in origin! reduced recidivism!) Some have even been known to use "dog whistles" that are known to appeal to racists.

        Know how a lot of rural (and southern) republicans LOVE to bash northern cities any chance they get? Well they KNOW that their supporters view those cities as "places where the minorities are". So a Republican can use racist dog whistle by talking about murders in chicago without actively saying racist things. His supporters don't know that murder in chicago is still much lower than it was in the past. Somebody says "650 people died in chicago in 2016" with the subtle dog whistle of "Chicago has gone to crap because the n-word people are running it" yeah, but 970 did in 1974! and 561 did in 2018, so it's dropped again.

        I figure the gangs figured out the tricks the police were using and clamped down on people they think might be informants, killing them or intimidating them faster.

        Also, Chicago might have been TOO successful against gangs in years past, taking down too many gang leaders, causing a bunch of murders when the remainder began jockeying for top positions.

        The Republican party has a problem.

        Even the Republicans know they have a problem!

        https://www.theatlantic.com/po... [theatlantic.com]

  • FTFA:

    Most people can agree a beheading video or some kind of ISIS content should be proactively removed , but when we try to talk about the alt-right or white nationalism, we get into dangerous territory, where we’re talking about [Iowa Rep.] Steve King or maybe even some of Trump’s tweets, so it becomes hard for social media companies to say all of this ‘this content should be removed

    So it's fairly easy to block black and white, but not so easy to block only certain shades of gray? Shocking.

    Just for grins, do we think we might see the same phenomenon in the parallel universe where some social media company wanted to ban black nationalism, but found it difficult to fully do so without collateral damage on other speech, including that of politicians? I'm sure that would be super-simple, but just checking.

  • A better headline might read "Twitter Can't Ban Any Supremacists Because It Would Mean Banning Politicians Too"

    Identity politics is a cancer that infects both the Far/Alt-Right and the Regressive/Alt-Left

    • by Ksevio ( 865461 )
      But overwhelmingly the on the right which is why it says Republican politicians
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by stdarg ( 456557 )

        The modern Democratic party is far more overtly racist than the Republicans. The only way to disagree with that is if you go by a modified definition of racism which excludes any action targeted at whites, in which case yeah the Democratic party isn't racist at all.

        Like look at the Democratic primaries... you can find articles in mainstream publications like the NY Times openly asking if a white man should represent the Democratic party. By the definition of racism 10 years ago, which is the definition that

  • I think they are talking about Steve King of Iowa. I mean it sounds like they are talking about Steve King of Iowa. Yeah, we would likely lose Steve King of Iowa.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 25, 2019 @11:59AM (#58489980)

    White supremacy used to mean Democratic KKK members lynching black people. The world rightly condemned that years ago.

    Nowadays, "white supremacy" means things like using math [cnn.com], milk [motherjones.com], making the OK sign [theoutline.com], or saying it's OK to be white [wikipedia.org].

    David Duke has done *all* of those things, so there's no room for argument, that stuff is all permanently racist now. You're not allowed to do anything a racist does, or you're one of them too. I just hope he stops breathing soon, so I can start.

    • by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @12:39PM (#58490358) Journal

      I just hope he stops breathing soon, so I can start

      Did you just culturally misappropriate Waiting to Exhale [wikipedia.org]? Off to the gulag!

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @01:05PM (#58490634) Homepage Journal

      The OK/white power symbol is an interesting one.

      Started as a troll by 4chan it's become a real thing. The Christchurch terrorist used it in court, for example.

      Functionally, what is the difference between a joke that white supremacists use unironicly and a non-joke one?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      White supremacy used to mean Democratic KKK members lynching black people. The world rightly condemned that years ago.

      Nowadays, "white supremacy" means things like using math [cnn.com], milk [motherjones.com], making the OK sign [theoutline.com], or saying it's OK to be white [wikipedia.org].

      Remember, ideologically those Democratic KKK members more closely resemble the Republican party of today. The Republican party today is the party of Lincoln in name only.

      And, well, to go off your example of the "OK" sign symbols, gestures, and the like are constantly adopted, co-opted, etc. Throwing up a Nazi salute or walking around wearing a white hood creates an automatic association in people. So instead, (and these are made up examples) maybe you wear an all white hat or hold up a "number one" sign.

  • by bjdevil66 ( 583941 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @12:13PM (#58490104)

    I have a bad feeling about this...

  • I don't suppose anyone around here can speak Arabic[1] and could give us a status update? Last I heard, hate speech on Arabic Twitter was considerably more lax compared to English Twitter, and it wasn't just limited to Isis supporters. A couple years back, around when the Bangladeshi atheist murders were going on, supposedly #KillAllAtheists was one of the top trending tags.

    If they are actually holding Muslim hate speech to a higher standard than "white supremacy" in any language, I'll be pleasantly surprised. I mean it's true I've been out of the loop for a while, but this is a company that appointed Anita freaking Sarkeesian to their "Trust and Safety" council, and that was *before* Trump was elected.

    (On a tangentially related note, I've always been of the opinion that ISIS social media accounts should be left open so that law enforcement could monitor them and infiltrate, set up honey pots, obtain search warrants, etc. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised too if that was the very reason why they were allowing any ISIS activity at all for a while there--was probably at the request of law enforcement or intelligence agencies. But my bigger point here was that Muslim "hate speech" certainly doesn't begin or end with ISIS.)


    1. I considered trying to learn it myself at one point, but it's apparently one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. It's very slightly easier to manage if you focus on audio (the language is part of that semitic family that doesn't have explicitly written vowels)... except many of the sounds are hard for English speakers to make and the different dialects of Arabic are so different as to be mutually unintelligible. (Not sure if this applies to the written language as well.) I saw someone say that when Arabs from different countries try to communicate, they fall back on pidgin a mix of vocabulary and phrases culled from the Qu'ran with some Egyptian TV colloquialisms mixed in.
  • by Actually, I do RTFA ( 1058596 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @12:20PM (#58490176)

    If the concern is specific politicians, why not create a whitelist of all politicians and not ban those regardless of what they say?

    • Nah. Just ban politicians of all shades, from everything, everywhere. Regardless of party affiliation, at the end of the day, they are politicians, and proven to quack like ducks.

      "Anyone who wants to be in power is most definitely unfit for any office, high or otherwise".

  • This is a roundabout way of saying that their definitions for this issue are too broad and/or too vague.

    There are laws against incitement to violence. If they need something more, they should start trying to define it.
  • by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Thursday April 25, 2019 @02:16PM (#58491306)

    Yes both groups are horrible, so what?

    Counter bad ideas with good ideas, not censorship.

    I want the world to know what both of these groups actually believe.

    An exception would be speech that is actually illegal. Child porn should be taken down.

    If somebody advocates violence, track that person down and arrest him/her.

news: gotcha

Working...