North Korea Announces Plans To Dismantle Nuclear Test Site (npr.org) 217
The Associated Press is reporting North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25. The dismantling will occur before President Trump is scheduled to meet with Kim Jong-un in Singapore on June 12. NPR reports: Reuters reports that Punggye-ri nuclear test site has been the location of all of North Korea's six known nuclear tests. At the site, there's a system of tunnels under the mountain Mount Mantap. Journalists from the United States, South Korea, China, Russia and Britain will be invited to watch a special ceremony in which all of the tunnels at the testing ground will be destroyed and observation and research facilities and guard units will be taken down. The North Korean government will provide journalists with a charter flight from Beijing to Wosnan, North Korea. From there, a train will take them to the test site in the northeast part of the country.
The AP also reports that at a ruling party meeting last month, North Korea announced the plan to close the nuclear testing ground, along with a commitment to suspend all tests of nuclear devices and ICBMs. At that same meeting, however, North Korea said it has been performing a kind of nuclear test classified as "subcritical." The "subcritical" experiments give scientists an opportunity to test weapons without causing an actual nuclear chain reaction and explosion.
The AP also reports that at a ruling party meeting last month, North Korea announced the plan to close the nuclear testing ground, along with a commitment to suspend all tests of nuclear devices and ICBMs. At that same meeting, however, North Korea said it has been performing a kind of nuclear test classified as "subcritical." The "subcritical" experiments give scientists an opportunity to test weapons without causing an actual nuclear chain reaction and explosion.
"Dismantled?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: "Dismantled?" (Score:1)
One tunnel collapsed after a test.
They did not store the entirety of their nuclear weapons program in a tunnel at the test site, if that's the retarded thing you were suggesting.
Re: "Dismantled?" (Score:5, Informative)
No, he's not suggesting that. He's suggesting that this test site was already getting pretty defunct, so as a PR stunt NK is inviting everyone to watch while they blow up the old test site.
Dismantled by China (Score:1, Insightful)
They blew the top off the mountain and it began venting fission products over China.
China told them "yo, knock it the f*** off. or we're gonna have Serious Problems"
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Dismantled by China (Score:5, Insightful)
First, he inherited his leadership position. Actually, this whole generation of Chinese leaders are called "princelings" because their fathers were leaders. None of them earned their title through any sort of true merit.
Second, nothing that he's said or written has indicated any sort of really novel thinking. His famous "socialism with Chinese characteristics" that makes up the basis of his writings basically amounts to a form of hereditary, authoritatian oligarchy. Pretty blase, boring stuff that's been tried over and over again with little success.
Third, he's a dictator. Dictators are fairly one-dimensional, unimaginative types who have very little to add to the sum of humanity's achievements. They don't do their countries any good and very rarely leave any good legacy behind.
Re:Dismantled by China (Score:5, Informative)
You make it sound like he's walked a red carpet from the cradle straight into power, and his biography doesn't read quite like that:
In 1963, when Xi was age 10, his father was purged from the Party and sent to work in a factory in Luoyang [wikipedia.org], Henan. In May 1966, Xi's secondary education was cut short by the Cultural Revolution [wikipedia.org], when all secondary classes were halted for students to criticise and fight their teachers. The Xi family home was ransacked by student militants and one of Xi's sisters, Xi Heping, was killed. Later, his own mother was forced to publicly denounce him as Xi was paraded before a crowd as an enemy of the revolution. Xi was aged 15 when his father was imprisoned in 1968 during the Cultural Revolution; Xi would not see his father again until 1972. Without the protection of his father, Xi was sent to work in Liangjiahe Village, Wen'anyi Town, Yanchuan County [wikipedia.org], Yan'an, Shaanxi, in 1969 in Mao Zedong [wikipedia.org]'s Down to the Countryside Movement [wikipedia.org]. After a few months, unable to stand rural life, he ran away to Beijing. He was arrested during a crackdown on deserters from the countryside and sent to a work camp to dig ditches.
So... he might have been born a "princeling", but that did not guarantee him an easy ride into the Politburo. (Did you know that his first nine applications to join the CPC were rejected?)
Third, he's a dictator. Dictators are fairly one-dimensional, unimaginative types who have very little to add to the sum of humanity's achievements. They don't do their countries any good and very rarely leave any good legacy behind.
I think you're mischaracterising his desire for stability--which appears to be both genuine and well-founded--as "lack of imagination" and ignoring both his background and its historical context. The Chinese experience of the past 120 years or so has been nothing like the American one.
XI is a very smart guy, and he's got balls [bbc.com]. Do not underestimate him.
Re: Dismantled by China (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Decades from now, I hope that some Chinese official lets us know in his memoirs just how close Kim Fat Ass came to getting a PRC bullet to the head.
Rumor is that Kim had his uncle, Jang Song-thaek [wikipedia.org], executed in order to head off a Chinese sponsored palace coup. Jang was widely seen as "China's guy" within the NK government. China was upset about Jang's execution, but Kim sent them a very clear message that he was not going to be pushed around.
Re: (Score:2)
And then Xi called him to Beijing and gave him a very clear message to the effect that, if NK started lobbing nukes of its own accord at the US or its allies, NK was going to be on its own.
Re: (Score:2)
Wouldn't be the first time they tried it [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently it's "Kim Fatty the Third" on Chinese social media...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:"Dismantled?" (Score:5, Insightful)
Wasn't their test site already "dismantled" by a massive tunnel collapse?
It is actually a little annoying that while the scientific and anti-proliferation communities/groups have been discussing what has happened to the testing site, you may only find a bare hint of that discussion in the regular news. But, as one commentator here has pointed out, if we all just close our eyes and pretend that the DPRK didn't shift an entire mountain on accident and create a potentially massive environmental disaster in its backyard, then it might help facilitate the peace process. Face gets saved, and actions of desperate necessity become grande gestures of peace. All the important people can get Nobel Peace prizes and feel good about themselves.
Welcome to Diplomacy 101, where you don't have to feel good about what you did as long as the results are acceptable.
Re: (Score:2)
I've read a number of pieces on the rumors about the collapse in papers like the Washington Post and the Guardian. The journalists are being cautious because North Korea is a very hard country to get solid evidence of anything out of, but those papers did report it, and certainly no merely as "hints".
Re: (Score:3)
The whole thing, the whole USA North Korea thing, was a pile of bull puckey. It was all about tying up China in a defence of North Korea to block their 'COMMERCIAL' expansion, not war, simply business. This all blew up when China would not play and although the US government attempted to keep it going, it all fell flat. So then when that North Korea gambit failed, the US government went with a trade and tarriff war but when the Government of China threw in copyright duration into the mix, that collapsed to.
Re: "Dismantled?" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Wasn't their test site already "dismantled" by a massive tunnel collapse?
No, North Korea's Nuclear Test Site Wasn't Destroyed in an Earthquake [nationalinterest.org]
"The reporting has been mostly hot garbage," Jeffrey Lewis, a nuclear expert at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey, tweeted after reviewing satellite imagery of the 7,200-foot Mount Mantap, where North Korea's Punggye-ri test site is located.
Trump to take credit. Let's wait for the spin... (Score:3)
North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25.
Just wait. Western nations are going take credit for this development; yet the North Korean leadership has stated that there's no need to test anymore as they've "mastered" how to place nuclear war heads onto ballistic missiles.
This means there's no further need for "testing."
Re: (Score:1)
North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25.
Just wait. Western nations are going take credit for this development; yet the North Korean leadership has stated that there's no need to test anymore as they've "mastered" how to place nuclear war heads onto ballistic missiles.
This means there's no further need for "testing."
Even the US and Russians want to continue testing since there's always more to learn. If you go assuming every Trump thing is bullshit without checking the evidence you will end up being discredited. Instead you should look at b0s0z0ku's comment [slashdot.org], which shows that you were right - this is bullshit propaganda - but for different reasons. The test site has collapsed and is unusable so dismantling it is the right thing. What's scary is that this was reported just a couple of weeks ago. The assumption seems
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If anything got reported, it was speculation that was reported and maybe "simplified" circular reporting of that speculation. A test chamber collapsed, because there was a frigging thermonuclear explosion in there. This means this particular place is definitely ruined. You might dig in there again and detonate a nuke again and it would be a very bad idea. But there's a bit more room than that and there are *other* tunnels that are ready, one of which the West one was actually maintained so that a test can h
Re:Trump to take credit. Let's wait for the spin.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Once NK has a credible threat to deliver a nuke on target to the USA, they really don't have to "learn" anymore. It's not like they are going to first strike and take out the USA's retaliatory capability. All they need is a credible threat, which is what they've got now.
Re: Trump to take credit. Let's wait for the spin (Score:5, Insightful)
The South Korean president and Foreign Minister both said that Trump was the primary reason for NK's capitulation.
Lots of things are spin in this day and age, but sometimes there's an actual fact that gets out. You can still hate Trump and also appreciate that he might have ended the Korean War by shitposting on Twitter.
Re: (Score:1)
The South Korean president and Foreign Minister both said that Trump was the primary reason for NK's capitulation.
But how would they know? That's just pure conjecture.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It is amusing that the South Korean leadership (who are directly talking with Kim) is giving Trump credit for ending the Korean War, and you are saying they don't know what they are talking about, yet somehow you do.
Re: (Score:2)
Where was the parent giving Trump credit for anything? Sounds like the amusing fool is you.
Re: (Score:2)
So far, all we've got is NK is talking and they aren't currently testing. They've been dying to have direct talks with the USA for decades, and trump is giving them that, basically for free. Let's save the "NK capitulation" talk for when they actually capitulate.
Re: Trump to take credit. Let's wait for the spi (Score:2)
If Obamacare would have ended a 60 year war by shitposting on Twitter he would have been given another Nobel peace prize and weâ(TM)d never hear the end of how much of a genius he was.
Re: Trump to take credit. Let's wait for the sp (Score:2)
No idea how obama turned into Obamacare.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't forget that Kim took his first trip to China by train a few months ago. Do you know what was said there? Maybe "Reconcile with the world you petulant child, before we turn you into a province or starve your people to death."
Re: (Score:3)
Wait for the trade war, it is brewing.
77,000 Chinese workers learned about this last week (ZTE, who attempted to purchase Qualcomm).
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/0... [cnn.com]
A 7 year ban on using US technologies, consider that. China will fund development of replacements, thus resolving the dependency (they probably already are/were).
And Europe is leaning against unilateral sanctions on Iran (this is as interesting as the Chinese stuff, Europe is a different beast):
https://www.reuters.com/articl... [reuters.com]
Avocado's are an
Lol. Maybe after he grabbed them by the crotch (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe asking nicely is what Obama did. Nice fellow, Obama.
I don't know how much Trump had to do with this.
Remember North Korea is smaller than Hewlett-Packard, they the US could easily destroy NK; we don't mostly because of politics. I know that if *I* were Kim Jong-un, and that wacky Trump dude were threatening to nuke my country, pointing out his big nuclear button, that would make me a bit more nervous than Obma's approach did. Trump seems like the kind of guy who just might decide, against the advice of his advisers, to go ahead and send a flight of three B-52s loaded up with 60 cruise missiles to go ahead and eliminate most of the major buildings in North Korea.
Keep in mind, North Korea has much less industry (gdp) than Birmingham, Alabama; Jacksonville; or Memphis.
It would be easy for Trump to just wake up one morning and decide "I'm tired of little Rocket Man. Let's blow up North Korea today and be done with it". It might not be a GOOD idea, but it would be easy for the US to do. Trump just might do something that Obama and Bush wouldn't do.
It may be that Trump asked nicely AFTER he grabbed them by the crotch. That's more Trump's MO, just asking nicely isn't really his thing - even when he should.
Without knowing, I can only listen to what the people who are in a better position to know have to say.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
They have no GDP but they have a number of virtually unpaid military conscripts that they use for building stuff, who work in the fields (e.g. harvest), prisoners too, and women are like caricatural 1950s' American wives too. What little Potemkin socialism they actually do (like building a catfish farm or something) doesn't really directly generate GDP, since they may allocate labor and resources directly. Then fish may be sold (GDP) or just taken away for use by the military (no GDP).
That said, they really
Re: (Score:3)
I don't know how much Trump had to do with this.
I'm merely referring to this. [washingtonpost.com]. Your "people who are in a better position to know" are mentioned there as well.
Re: (Score:2)
The politicians in SK find it useful to give Trump credit because they are under pressure from their own hard liners to take a tough stance. They can say it was brinkmanship and military force that brought NK to the table, which is kinda true.
It also makes it easier for the US with withdraw military forces from SK later, painting it as a US victory.
Where ya from, Angel? (Score:2)
Off topic a bit, I'm just curious where you're from. We've talked on here quite bit over the years. Anyway, to respond to your questions and comments:
I said: ...
>> that wacky Trump dude were threatening to nuke my country, pointing out his big nuclear button, that would make me a bit more nervous than Obama's approach did. Trump seems like the kind of guy who just might decide, against the advice of his advisers, to go ahead and send a flight of three B-52s
>> It might not be a good idea
You ask
Re: (Score:2)
change the theme of your cocksucking fawning
Looks to me that you're the one who's pretty intense on the whole cocksucking/gay stuff. Maybe you have issues to deal with before you can get involed in serious discussions.
Re: (Score:3)
NK wants the US out of Korea completely (so does China and Russia). Now they are negotiating them out. NK wanted trade blockades ended. Trump has said he will end them. Trump has further promised that he will give US taxpayer's money to NK for de-nuking. Now there's a way forward for Iran and Cuba. If you don't have a nuke then the US hits you with sanctions. Get a nuke and the US will not only be nice to you, but actually give you money not to make any more and stop the sanctions shit.
No he hasn't. He has not done any of this as of yet. These options will be on the table I imagine in the future, as they should be.
Re: (Score:2)
Never underestimate the effect of Fox News and the millions who listen to Rush, Hanity, and others on Facebook and AM radio.
Fox is the number one watched infonews station and it impacts people's views
Re: (Score:3)
I love Fox News. Great source of news and commentary. Possibly the most fair and balanced source of news on the planet.
So was that as hard to read as it was to actually type it? Fair and balanced my ass. But I do like Tucker Carlson. I love that little head tilt he does when the gears in his head start to turn. Reminds me of my favorite beagle when I would magically pull a milk bone out of his ear.
"Whos a good boy? Who's a good boy?"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It's not that people don't think its a good thing. It is they just don't want to give Trump credit for it, or for anything. We should be clear, this was a major event and Trump actions are what lead directly too it.
If this does go down it will become a pivotal moment in history. It could literally reshape the political climate in the area. This could be the defining moment of Trump's legacy and progressives just hate to think that Trump isn't the incompetent baffoon they make him out to be.
Re: (Score:2)
You make it sound like Trump has some kind of carefully-crafted strategy for this and other foreign and domestic efforts. That's not what I'm seeing. Mostly I see a man who just breaks stuff to see what happens.
Look at Trump's tweets about NK leading up to a few months ago, and tell me with a straight face that he was planning to be Mr. Nice Guy all along. This opportunity just landed in his lap, because NK is on the ropes due to so many other things that have precious little to do with him. Don't get me wr
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
That would be a good guess. That is pretty much how it always goes. The leaders on the stage strut around and bluster, while quiet diplomacy happens in the background. The strutting roosters step in and take the credit.
But what makes TDS, Trump Derangement Syndrome is every one affected by it wants to blame everything on Trump. For instance there is a thread about flat earth convention some where. And some one just had to bring up a comprising with Trump. Trump has nothing to do with flat earth or
Re: (Score:2)
No, Trump is, without a doubt, the least competent POTUS in history.
Re: (Score:2)
If the North Korean leadership thinks that, then they know less about nuclear weapons than they think they do. A LOT less....
Re: (Score:2)
What do numbers have to do with it? Much of China's vast army is relatively poorly armed. Taking on China in a land war would be very hard but not impossible for the US, particularly if the aims were relatively limited. China can threaten the US with nukes, but then again the US arsenal certainly outweighs China's. The US Navy and Airforce outgun China considerably, so numbers of soldiers doesn't seem an appropriate metric here.
Re: Trump to take credit. Let's wait for the spin. (Score:2)
But why is Xi leaning on Kim? Is it because a madman in the White House has brought the issue to a head by threatening Kim into doing stupid things which finally annoyed China enough to lean on him.
Very Old News... (Score:2)
In fact, this very site has already had tests suspended indefinitely, likely because a mountain fell on it [scmp.com]. From the article:
"The breakdown not only took off part of the mountain’s summit but also created a “chimney” that could allow fallout to rise from the blast centre into the air"
So, um good job Kim, taking a desperate attempt at mitigating a massive environmental disaster that could have blanketed half a hemisphere in radioactive fallout and trying to parlay it into a gesture of goodw
Re: (Score:1)
So, um good job Kim, taking a desperate attempt at mitigating a massive environmental disaster that could have blanketed half a hemisphere in radioactive fallout and trying to parlay it into a gesture of goodwill?
Well, why wouldn't he? He's got nothing to lose by doing so, and by playing to Trump's ego he might better be able to manipulate him.
Re: (Score:1)
Imagine Trump playing poker...bwahahahahaha....Art of the Deal my ass. Kim will own him.
Re: (Score:2)
It's obvious what's going to happen. Ten years of building a new test facility, meanwhile cashing in on an economic cash influx from relaxing sanctions.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's amazing how Trump hasn't gotten shit actually accomplished
Well, other than a tax cut. And ending the Obamacare mandate. And moving the embassy to Jerusalem. And starting to build a real wall. And cutting 2+ regulations for every new regulation. And scaling back on Federal overreach. And pulling out of the Paris Accord. And pulling out of the Iran giveaway deal. And bringing North Korea to the table. And re-opening trade talks with China. And withdrawing from the TPP. And ending "catch and release" with illegal aliens. And 100 other things.
But, yeah, ot
Re: (Score:2)
The single thing on your list I could agree on as something good attributable to Trump, withdrawing from the TPP, he is of course reco
Re: (Score:2)
Well practically everything on that list is a good thing.
Trump isn't screwing immigrants in any manner. What he is doing is enforcing US immigration law. His policies do not in any way affect immigrants.
Well legal immigrants. What they do is make life hell for illegal immigrants. What you progressives like to call "migrants" or "undocumented." When what they are is simply illegal immigrants. Trump is making their lives hell and this is a good thing.
If you are about the bring up that DACA thin
Re: (Score:2)
Trump wants to sharply restrict legal immigration. You've gotta be ignorant or lying to pretend otherwise. On top of that, ones that are already here legally, he wants to make having an American-born child receiving benefits grounds for denying green cards to the parents. DACA, like NN, isn't one of those things you just cancel entirely because you think Congress should
Re: (Score:3)
See, this is the reason that so many of your liberals keep getting into so much trouble. You don't read things all they way through, and you barely think about things that you do read. An even if you do read some thing you just twist it to mean what ever you want it too. That is a symptom of TDS.
I specifically said that was concerned about Trumps environmental policies. In fact I disagree with several of them. But here is the difference between people like me and liberals suffering from TDS. W
Exit ramp (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, this very site has already had tests suspended indefinitely, likely because a mountain fell on it [scmp.com]. From the article:
"The breakdown not only took off part of the mountain’s summit but also created a “chimney” that could allow fallout to rise from the blast centre into the air"
So, um good job Kim, taking a desperate attempt at mitigating a massive environmental disaster that could have blanketed half a hemisphere in radioactive fallout and trying to parlay it into a gesture of goodwill?
One potential problem with Korean negotiations is the optics, and the tendency of people to dislike being proven wrong, losing face, and being shown as disingenuous or hypocritical.
We could help the process along by giving Kim the widest exit-ramp from his situation. We don't have to be the sore, arrogant winners here.
So let's suppose that the existing test site was partially destroyed by the collapse, and still held significant development capability. We don't know that this is *not* true.
If the rest of the world were to take the positive view and assume the best, then this is Kim making a real effort to promote peace between the two nations.
A highly respectable gesture, and offered before negotiations.
Actually, that sounds 'kinda classy when you think about it.
Re: Exit ramp (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's worth mentioning that for all Trump's faults, he does have skill in making deals,
s/making deals/running cons/
The follow-up may have trouble,
Yes, that is the concern.
Re: Exit ramp (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
The real trouble is that people are utterly irrational in their hatred of politicians. I don't like the guy but get real. If you can't say something nice you're probably partisan.
I think both the Democratic and Republican parties are bullshit, and the Libertarian and Green parties while we're here, too. But Trump is a career criminal, and it's not clear he actually has a fortune aside from what he can get by going to Mar-a-Lago every weekend and charging the Secret Service extra to protect him. As an investor, he is outperformed by Paris Hilton, or pretty much any investment fund. If he has actually got a fortune, it's predicated entirely upon the suffering of others; sweatshops, fo
Re: Exit ramp (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't say he was good at managing money. I said he was good at making deals.
He's good at making illegal deals that hurt people, which are based on lies. We call those cons.
While we're on the topic, he's also very good at drawing attention to himself. Most clowns disappear after a couple years. He's kept it on him for decades.
Actually wealthy people don't want attention. He has to keep getting attention because he keeps running out of money, and his cons depend on it. He conned his way into his first loans by committing fraud against the banks and pretending to be someone else on the phone with them, claiming that his father's assets were his when they weren't. Trump's apparent success is not an accolade for Trump, it's an indictment
Re: Exit ramp (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I really don't care if he's wealthy or not. That's not the point and his problem not mine.
I note you didn't respond to anything actually important in my comment. Want to try again? Trump's lack of wealth is relevant, because it helps demonstrate what a liar he is, and I brought it up only in that context. Your parser is broken... or whatever is supposed to stop your knee from jerking.
Trump is a fraud and con-man. Trusting him on any level is useful idiot behavior.
Re: Exit ramp (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
He also has skills. Can you continue to deny that?
I deny that he has skills at making deals. He only has skills at running cons. But those aren't the skills we need as a president. We need someone who can do real things; someone who can build things, not only destroy them.
Re: (Score:2)
He only has skills at running cons. But those aren't the skills we need as a president.
Wrong. Those are *precisely* the best skills to have when dealing with nations like NK, Iran, Russia, China, etc.
Those are invaluable skills to have as a President engaged in foreign diplomacy.
Diplomacy: The art of saying "nice doggie!" while reaching for a stick.
Strat
Re: (Score:2)
He only has skills at running cons. But those aren't the skills we need as a president.
Wrong. Those are *precisely* the best skills to have when dealing with nations like NK, Iran, Russia, China, etc.
Trump keeps finding himself broke because the long-term repercussions of his cons are that he is broke again. We don't want to find ourselves dealing with "NK, Iran, Russia, China, etc." again in a few years because of Trump's short-term fixes.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Very Old News... (Score:5, Interesting)
The most interesting account I saw was from, of all things, a Pakistani newspaper. It said that the test set off an earthquake. It caused a tunnel to collapse... with about 100 people in it. They may have been many of NK's nuclear scientists. And when they sent people in to try to rescue them, another collapse took out another hundred or so people. So the site is entirely unusable, and they may have lost many of their nuclear scientists in the process.
I guess they had enough physicists but not enough geologists.
Didn't that site collapse? (Score:3)
Punggye-ri may not even be usable at this point. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Punggye-ri+collapse [lmgtfy.com]
Awfully nice of them to offer to decommission it at this point :-p
This is a purely symbolic gesture to improve their optics.
Well Played (Score:5, Insightful)
Well played, North Korea. Well played . . .
Nothingburger ... (Score:2)
... because they don't need no more steenkin' tests.
Re: (Score:2)
... because they don't need no more steenkin' tests.
Actually because the mountain has collapsed upon their underground testing facilities, they can't test anymore.
Another Reason Why (Score:5, Informative)
The only thing this site is good for now is to give Kim Jong-un a diplomatic trump card.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un [scmp.com]
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/958444/North-Korea-nuclear-missile-nuke-bomb-Punggye-ri-test-site [express.co.uk]
what they are NOT saying (Score:2)
Call me cynical but... (Score:2)
this just makes me wonder where they moved it to now.
Nobel while jailed (Score:4, Informative)
Can you get a Nobel prize while serving concurrent life terms for treason in Leavenworth?
As it happens, you can get a Nobel peace prize while in prison. Most recently Liu Xiaobo [vox.com] was awarded the prize while jailed.
The Nobel committee apparently doesn't use "laws of other countries" as a criterion. Why would they?
Also as it happens, treason is specifically defined in the constitution. Nothing that Trump has been accused of comes under that definition.
Also also, I was reading about some of the trial transcripts from Mueller's indictments, and he'll be lucky if he doesn't get slapped by the court. The Manafort case in particular had the judge asking how Mueller's investigation can extend to actions that happened ten years before the election... and the prosecution being evasive and rude to the judge... causing the judge to demand prosecution submit the full, redacted indictment recommendation.
And in the Flynn case, the judge ordered prosecution to turn over any exculpatory evidence they have. This is unusual for a case where a guilty plea has been entered. The polite interpretation is that the judge feels Flynn might not have entered the plea because he was guilty, but because he couldn't afford a defense. The bad interpretation is that the judge might be looking into whether Flynn's plea was coerced. (Heard somewhere that prosecutors told Flynn that after they were done prosecuting him, they'd go after his wife and kids.)
And remember those 13 Russian nationals that were indicted? Turns out, it was 13 Russian nationals and four corporate entities. And one of the entities actually showed up in court to contest the charges. The indictments were widely viewed as a PR stunt, and that Mueller never expected anyone to contest them. He wasn't expecting to actually have to go to court, he's unprepared, and prosecutors tried to postpone the trial, saying "the plaintiffs were never served notice". Plaintiffs responded with "we're here voluntarily to answer charges and intend to enter a plea of "not guilty", let's have a trial!". Judge agreed, and now Mueller is scrambling to find evidence to support a bogus indictment.
Also, I heard that the IG report got postponed (last Wednesday) by "a couple of weeks" because they found new evidence about the Clinton E-mail investigation.
So overall, wait about 4 weeks or so and get back to me on whether Trump will be in jail, or whether we have a dozen high-level politicians indicted on corruption charges.
Re:Nobel while jailed (Score:5, Informative)
Also as it happens, treason is specifically defined in the constitution. Nothing that Trump has been accused of comes under that definition.
The constitution defines treason against the US as adhering to its enemies or giving them aid and comfort. If a presidential candidate or surrogates secretly work with a foreign adversary to manipulate elections and get their candidate elected, that would be a pretty textbook case of treason.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If a presidential candidate or surrogates secretly work with a foreign adversary to manipulate elections and get their candidate elected, that would be a pretty textbook case of treason.
You mean like the Clinton Foundation?
Re: Nobel while jailed (Score:2)
Stop throwing up flak. There's no evidence of that. There IS however a very serious investigation by republican appointed investigators lead by a republican , Mueller, that is strongly indicating that certain factions within trumps team did infact collide with a hostile foreign power to rig the election. Let's stick to what we know instead of throwing up smokescreens based on lazy conspiracy theories
Re: (Score:2)
Don't worry intellectual coward, it's very easy to spot who makes posts like this. Why don't you try sticking to the content at hand instead of waving it around like your usual whataboutism that you go on about.
https://www.redstate.com/strei... [redstate.com]
Re: (Score:2)
You mean the fantasy you have about them doing anything illegal?
Meanwhile, Trump made fake magazine covers of himself.
Right. Trump made fake magazine covers, and Clinton took money from Putin, from China, from Saudis and so on. I can see why you would throw Trump in jail and give Clinton the keys to the white house.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
He said candidates, not elected officials, so I'm guessing you can find some list of guys somewhere that fall under that. It's like naming a list of candidates of left handed Cherokee shamans.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The constitution defines treason against the US as adhering to its enemies or giving them aid and comfort.
Legally, how do you define "enemy?" Answer: a country you are at war with. For the US to be at war, Congress must make a declaration. Authorizations of force don't cut it.
Congress has not declared war since 1941. Therefore, nobody at this time can be guilty of treason. Not Chelsea Manning, not Edward Snowden, and yes, not even Trump or his associates. (And for the record, I'm no fan of Trump.)
Treason is a serious crime. It is the only crime mentioned in the US Constitution. The criteria for being guilty of
Re: (Score:2)
You are referring to Arlington National Cemetery.
Re:Nobel while jailed (Score:5, Informative)
You gotta love the Trump apologists.
It goes something like this:
1. It is not that bad.
2. Democrats did it (even if they didn't)
3. No one really cares.
4. Even if it happened it doesn't matter.
Did Trump collude with russians? Yes, we have two examples of proof. First his chosen people had that meeting with Russians. Second Trump openly asked for help on national tv. Will whatever he did along those lines result in jail time? Don't know. Have to wait and see.
Is Trump guilty of pay for play? Most certainly. Trump's lawyer, who represents Trump directly, and is presumably acting with Trump's knowledge directly accepted crazy sums of money for influence. That is obvious influence pedling.
Is Trump guilty of reckless disregard for the environment. Yes, see scott pruit.
Is Trump guilty of far more than Clinton was impeached for? Sure. You've got what a dozen or so women, and at least one confirmed pay off, which certainly was illegal since it was a material contribution way outside of bounds to his campaign.
Is Trump's word good for anything? Nope. He's over 3000 lies since he took office. I believe he has been awarded lie of the year at least once, likely for the birther crap, which was a perfect example of the low form of life that he is.
Is trump generally morally repugnant and unfit for office? Hell yes, see massive insults to gold star families, war heroes(mccain), etc, etc. Hell he just praised the leader of north korea who sent the previous guest to his country home as a vegetable. Meanwhile one of his staff said something repulsive about McCain and he does nothing.
Was getting out of the iran deal wise? Well given that I see no real plan for a better solution, and that other major credible countries are struggling to save it, I'm going to go with no. The fact that gas prices spiked is just an added bonus.
Did trump obstruct justice? Yes, see lester holt interview, and recent interviews by Juliani. Hell he regularly threatens to get involved with the justice department and regularly threatens to fire people. He tried and failed to push Jeff Sessions out only because he dare not actually fire him. Hell he actually apparently approved using the excuse that he fired comey because he was mean to Hillary, and no one with a brain could buy that Trump cared a crap about that.
He also seems to be doing the odd strategy pardon, such with scooter libby, likely to give people a sign if they just hold out the fix is in. I believe his lawyers have even discussed pardoning some of the people under investigation.
Re: (Score:3)
How did this drivel get modded up to 5 Informative? It's full of crap.
Did Trump collude with russians? Yes, we have two examples of proof. First his chosen people had that meeting with Russians.
There is no evidence any of those meetings had a direct bearing on the election and weren't just business meetings. We have nothing except the fact that Russians tried to foment division in the US by taking out FB ads and websites, some of which were pro Bernie Sanders. They went for the fringe candidates.
As it is, it looks like any information Flynn handed over is now suspect, or due to coercion.
Second Trump openly asked for help on national tv.
lol To cite this as a serious matter o
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's doubtful he will even run in 2020, and even if he does, it's unlikely he'll be able to reproduce the conditions that lead to those narrow victories in a few key states.
Re: (Score:2)
The judge asking those questions about Manafort (Score:2)
I don't think Trump and Co will ever be found guilty of treason in the legal sense, but any fool following the money can see they've already sold us out more times than can be counted. Colloquially his administration guilty at least 5 times over. Note that I said "his administration". Trump's a
Re: (Score:2)
"Partisan" as in demanding that Muller's team follow the law and produce the exculpatory evidence that Muller's team MUST provide for a defense team, as to allow a full and complete defense.
I bet every time you see a meme like: "Hawaii judge orders N.Korean prisoners must remain jailed." You're really hoping it's true.