Trump Bans Venezuela's New National Cryptocurrency (cnbc.com) 170
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: President Donald Trump issued an executive order Monday banning any transactions within the United States involving any digital currency issued by, for, or on behalf of the Government of Venezuela. The order applies to U.S. citizens as well as anyone within the United States, and includes cryptocurrency issued on or after January 9. President Trump's order is in response to recent attempts by Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro's regime to "circumvent U.S. sanctions by issuing a digital currency," the White House said in a statement. Venezuela launched its oil-backed cryptocurrency in February to help pull the country out of a continuing economic crisis. President Maduro said each petro token will be backed by one barrel of the state's national petroleum. Maduro also said roughly 100 million tokens would be issued -- estimated to be worth around $6 billion. Bitcoin prices dropped about $200 to around $8,388, according to Coinbase, following the order.
Does Dear Leader (Score:1, Insightful)
Have the authority to do this? Like Obama the executive branch keeps getting more and more audacious with these executive orders.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
No, he does not. He can ban it from the government, but he has zero authority to tell individuals or companies what they can and can't accept as payment for goods or services.
Re: (Score:3)
The executive branch enforces the laws. Unless there exists a law that violating this ban would also infringe, someone with enough money to see this through court can get it blocked or overturned.
Of course Joe Blow in his basement buying some crypto-bolivars (or whatever) would have no ability to stop the SS* from dragging him from his home, shooting his dog, and destroying his computers...
As in Secret Service, who deals with currency related issues, but pun partially intended.
Re: (Score:1)
Precisely, he has the authority to prohibit US banks from doing business with any person or oganizaion that does business with corrupt Venezuelan officials. This ban is not only well within his authority, but consistent with the intent of the legislation directing the economic embargo against the Venezuelan dicator and his cronies.
Re: (Score:2)
If he enforced it the way you are indicating, then I suspect there'd be a lot less criticism. As it is this looks like political bullying.
Re: (Score:2)
I reckon he has a global fiscal authority, might be more peaceful if the US gets to be the core of a global energy futures crypto currency, no need for energy wars, global transaction currency solved, tied individual to national currencies and in turn the energy those countries are capable of supplying or the goods and services to buy that energy. A global transaction market, no competitors allowed. Then again it might be just a useful if they weren't, little be rougher but still the same largely conflict f
Re:Does Dear Leader (Score:5, Informative)
I'm going to say no. He's not telling the government what to do. He's trying to make something illegal (aka against the law).
He's trying to cite emergency powers:
International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)
And I think it would be awfully hard to call this a national emergency for us. On the other hand, it was Barack Obama that called it an emergency, and this new executive order merely cites it: https://www.federalregister.go... [federalregister.gov]
So yes, these executive orders are getting out of hand.
Re: (Score:2)
IIUC the US has officially been under emergency powers since sometime during WWII. I never heard that they were repealed, and I believe that they were implemented without a sunset clause.
Re: (Score:1)
Since 1979 under Jimmy Carter. The ones FDR put in place have expired. They all have to be renewed yearly and there are something like 30 of them in place. Long story short the president can declare a national emergency for really anything he wants. Its just a BS loop hole to subvert our system of government and you can thank the lazy inept Congress critters who failed us and our country. They are being used currently to do everything from the war on drugs, illegal detention and torture of terrorists, force
Re: (Score:3)
Both "sides" appear to like it. This was handed from Obama to Trump and both have some severe overstep on executive orders. In either case, I've disliked any sort of unchecked power in government - and executive orders were supposed to be part of the checks and balances against legislative power (mostly regarding selective enforcement of the law - which is an executive branch privilege).
Re: (Score:2)
The president is supposed to have some control over the enforcement of laws. That makes sense because the president has the authority to determine how the budget is spent (or not spent) and to pardon people who have been convicted of breaking the law. In theory, the president could pardon everyone convicted of breaking a law that he/she disagreed with.
When the president says "we order this" what it should always mean is that the law either supports his/her desire and he/she is deciding to spend budget money
Re: (Score:3)
This seems to be a case of the president saying a law should be enforced that most citizens wouldn't have known was even in existence
No, it's not. The law that's in existence gives the president emergency powers during a national emergency to enact things like this. It's definitely in existence and used to great effect. It was used 6 times [wikipedia.org] between 1977 and 2000. All but one of those is easily obvious in matching the intent and scope of the law. In the last 18 years, it's been used 22 more times. The validity of the "national emergency" in question on most of those is very doubtful.
The point, though, is that this isn't the president
Re: (Score:2)
The law specifically requires such emergencies to be extended annually, or they sunset.. Interestingly enough, The order was renewed in 2016, and 2017, but not 2018... Technically speaking, this order may not be legal, since as far as I can tell, the state of emergency
Re: (Score:2)
It's still not a valid "national emergency." Renewed or not, this is a presidential power that has been granted too much overreach with no oversight. The order in August is just as bad. As is the original declaration of emergency by Obama in 2015. Being able to declare just about anything an "emergency" in order to have dictatorial powers is just plain fundamentally against the nature of our government's design. I could only hope that this is the last straw that finally gets attention at the issue, but
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Whether congress agrees has nothing to do with it. The fact that it was enacted without any oversight provisions makes it de facto unconstitutional. The fact that it lets the executive branch effectively act as the legislative branch during peacetime is also the same.
Re: (Score:2)
The fact that it was enacted without any oversight provisions makes it de facto unconstitutional
You either don't know what de facto means, or you're not familiar with the structure of the US government, as laid out in the Constitution.
The Congress is absolutely free to empower the President to prohibit things. Are you trying to claim that all regulations under the control of regulatory agencies (The Executive branch) are unconstitutional? I think you need to go back to school, buddy.
Re: (Score:2)
Stupid executive orders are good for the long term goal of freedom. Stupid executive orders get challenged in court, overturned and as a result, they create a sort of self regulating system. More stupid executive orders getting made means more of them getting overturned by the courts. The result is that fewer stupid executive orders will happen in the future.
I hope.
The cynic in me has to note that stupid people get power and stupid people support it. It's hard to trust that stupidity will limit itself.
Re: (Score:2)
This order, like all other orders, cite the laws that empower t
Re:Does Dear Leader (Score:5, Informative)
The embargo of trade with Cuba was initiated by an executive order, so there's strong precedence for it.
Re: Does Dear Leader (Score:2)
In this case, yes. There are already sanctions in place. The executive is responsible for enforcing them.
As Venezuela is trying to bypass them, he is responsible for and authorized to curtail those workarounds.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. Economic sanctions. That power to force good men and women at the bottom end of poverty to suffer, starve, and die, despite having done nothing, because some of the dear leaders in their country haven't danced to your tune.
Did you want terrorists? Because this is how you get terrorists.
Re: (Score:2)
Have the authority to do this? Like Obama the executive branch keeps getting more and more audacious with these executive orders.
In particular, does this mean that we can no longer gas up at Citgo stations?
Re:Does Dear Leader (Score:4, Informative)
Per executive order 13692 [treasury.gov], you cannot send any property to Venezuela. The IRS considers cryptocurrencies as property [irs.gov]. Thus trading - sending or buying - in Venezuelan crypto is not legal. Unless, of course, the underlying executive order is illegal - but that's not been determined yet.
Based on the above, it is quite clear that President Trump didn't add anything new, just explicitly listed Venezuela's cryptocurrency as banned - which it already was, per the earlier EO and existing IRS statutes.
Re: (Score:2)
Like Obama the executive branch keeps getting more and more audacious with these executive orders.
You mean like how Obama has issued the lowest number of executive orders of any president in the past 125 years (corrected for length of sitting term)?
/sarcasm Let's ban Math while we are at it ! (Score:2)
This is retarded. "Banning" cryptocurrency is akin to trying to ban Math. Yeah, good luck with that.
Hypothetical: So if I "own" Venezuelan cryptocoin will I be hauled off to jail ???
Hypothetical: If I leave the U.S., say go visit Canada, can I then "buy" Venezuelan cryptocoins?
Re: (Score:3)
"The order applies to U.S. citizens as well as anyone within the United States."
So no, you cannot legally buy Venezuelan cryptocoins, ever. Trump said so!
Re: (Score:2)
legally
Funny word you chose. Now cite the law in question.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
That makes him able to make an executive order. It doesn't make it a law or any American's actions illegal. Obama calling Venezuala's situation a "national emergency" for us is highly questionable - and from there, that makes anything predicated on that really shaky to start with.
Re:/sarcasm Let's ban Math while we are at it ! (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is AC being downmodded - Trump can't even get the courts to allow things he *is* allowed to regulate, like immigration. Nothing about this is an emergency - Venezuela isn't going to take the pennies Americans might throw at their new currency and build WMDs with it. If there's fear that the new currency will somehow take away our stranglehold on the price of oil, banning it from America will do fuck all to stop the global markets from using it anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
Where Congress empowers a President to declare an action prohibited or not (which they do in hundreds of aspects of American life) he has that power. In this case, they did, and he did. All's happy and legal. Nothing weird here. Just ignorant people on Slashdot who bitch and moan and call names, too stupid to learn the system, and therefor too stupid to fix it.
Re: (Score:2)
I shouldn't have to do this, but I will anyway.
https://www.treasury.gov/resou... [treasury.gov] Enjoy.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not exactly certain that Lord Trump can tell me what I can and can't spend my money on. Last time I checked Congress made the laws, not the office of the President.
Re:/sarcasm Let's ban Math while we are at it ! (Score:4, Informative)
Congress already gave him the authority: 50 U.S. Code  1701 and 50 U.S. Code  1702
Re: (Score:1)
(A) Asset blocking.—The exercise of all powers granted to the President by the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) to the extent necessary to block and prohibit all transactions in all property and interests in property of a person determined by the President to be subject to subsection (a) if such property and interests in property are in the United States, come within the United States, or are or come within the possession or control of a United States person.
There's
Re: (Score:2)
There are 30 states of emergency in effect at the federal level. Take your pick.
Congress made that law (Score:1, Flamebait)
A long while ago, the USoA congress made a law that allowed the executive branch to take special meassures and granted it special powers in case a country was a "threat to USoA security".
Lord Obama declared Venezuela an "unnusual threat", and even renewed the declaration one year latter, just before Lord Trump's Inauguration.
Lord Trump renewed it once more.
But, what lord trump is telling you is to use your money as you see fit EXCEPT in aiding threats to national security. Just as you are supposed NOT to sp
Re:Congress made that law (Score:4, Insightful)
Just as you are supposed NOT to spend your money on goods sold by ISIS, you are not supposed to buy Venezuelan bonds, including the petro.
In that case I wonder why Citgo is still allowed to operate in the US. Oh yeah, because entrenched interests like it that way. Funny how calls of "national security" don't apply when influential people with large amounts of money stand to lose it...
Re:Congress made that law (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny how calls of "national security"
National security is a nice catch all phrase that they use when they want to do a end run around the law and strip you of your rights. Unless its about guns, then its "think of the children."
Re: (Score:2)
Most Citgo stations are privately owned, by Americans or legal American residents. Venezuela sold the vast majority years ago, probably in anticipating something like this order or its predecessors. Where they get their gas, now, I do not know, but it shouldn't be hard to find some from US refineries.
Any still owned by Venezuela would have been shut down during President Obama's term, by his executive orders.
Sorry, nothing to see here.
Re: (Score:2)
These Lords you speak of...are they aristocratic like the House of Lords? Or tyrannical like the Sith Lords?
Re: (Score:3)
Or tyrannical like the Sith Lords?
Sometimes I would rather deal with Sith Lords. At least they are honest about their goals.
Re: (Score:2)
This is not a "pure" cryptocurrency. Each unit is backed by a barrel of oil. It can only be created by Venezuela. The crypto part simply is a way of transferring it.
In short, you can't mine it and you pretty much have to obtain it from Venezuela government directly or indirectly.
Re: (Score:3)
Trump is giving it more credibility than it deserves.
It should just sink without a glug. Would you buy currency from this nation at their exchange rate?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:/sarcasm Let's ban Math while we are at it ! (Score:5, Informative)
"Banning" cryptocurrency is akin to trying to ban Math. Yeah, good luck with that.
Banning math is not exactly new [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It is fairly common for /.-ers to not bother reading TFA. But the answers to your "sarcastic" questions are right there in the write-up — you didn't have to click away to read them...
The executive order bans transactions — not ownership. If you own it, you aren't subject to any punishment until you try to sell it.
If you are a US citizen, you will b
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps more importantly is why would you seek to circumvent this one... Maduro's government is even more stupid and evil [elpais.com] than Chavez' was
One valid reason to want to put your hat in the ring is if it actually goes somewhere, getting in on the ground floor can make you a lot of money. Evil can be profitable, and for those that do not believe in some form of karma, afterlife, or divine punishment, there's no logical reason to not take advantage provided any potential punishment is outweighed by the profit. See: the premise of Breaking Bad.
Re: (Score:2)
True. However, because it's tied to oil (unlike bitcoin which is tied to nothing), isn't the upside potential only ever the price of a barrel of oil? I'm not too bullish on oil long term, though I admit others might have good reasons for feeling that there is nowhere to go but up with oil... So, unfair though it might be, because this petro-coin is tied to something tangible, its value might be very limited.
Re: (Score:2)
Chavez managed to not only destroy Venezuela's economy
What are economic sanctions for?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
On Monday, President Donald Trump signed an executive order that prohibits transactions inside the U.S. that involve “any digital currency, digital coin or digital token” issued by the Venezuelan government after January 9.
Transactions do NOT include previous ownership. If you owned it prior to January 9th, you can keep it - you just can't trade, exchange, or redeem it.
Re: (Score:2)
The wording you quoted says nothing about ownership, it says you can't transact in a currency that was issued after 9th January.
Isn't 9th January when Venezuela announced and issued the digital currency? You can't own it before then because it didn't exist.
If you bought some last week then according to the sentence you quoted you're in the clear, but I haven't read the actual executive order.
Re: (Score:2)
The wording you quoted says nothing about ownership, it says you can't transact in a currency that was issued after 9th January.
Correct. And in the US, if something is not prohibited by law, it is implicitly legal. There is probably no law that says you can walk from your front door to your car, does that make you guilty of a crime?
Re: (Score:2)
Cryptocurrency is just another way of sneaking in new funding.
Debt (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I just don't see how bitcoin is even maintaining it's current price because if you can't buy anything with it then what use is it? I guess does anyone know what you can still buy with bitcoin?
You can still trade bitcoin for legal currency, as long as you can find someone who wants your bitcoin. You know, like any kind of currency. It's good for moving money around the planet when the authorities don't want you to, but won't actually raise a finger to stop you. It doesn't hide the transaction, but it does make possible transactions which banks won't make.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would it be debt if you store one barrel of oil for each coin?
I just don't see how bitcoin is even maintaining it's current price because if you can't buy anything with it then what use is it?
Hae? That is a silly statement/question. You can nearly buy everything you want with bitcoin.
Re: (Score:2)
That is a silly statement/question. You can nearly buy everything you want with bitcoin.
Really? I'm going to dinner tomorrow night at Mastro's Ocean Club [mastrosrestaurants.com]. Can I pay for it with Bitcoin? How about my trip this coming weekend to Singapore - I'll be staying at some nice hotels, going to a trade show, I can pay for that with Bitcoin?
Re: (Score:2)
Yes. They take VISA, aka you can spend Bitcoin there.
I got a card from Coinbase. Anywhere I can use a VISA, I can spend my cryptocurrency. My card by itself would be accepted most places in Singapore, and I could withdraw local currency as needed.
As for me personally? I actually couldn't pay for it with Bitcoin because I liquidated all my Bitcoin at a value maybe ten percent below it's current value, but I could pay for stuff with Bitcoin Cash ... not that what I have left would go very far.
I invested in Mt
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Are you an idiot or what?
Obviously you can spent your bitcoins only at places that accept bitcoin ...
Why waste your time to make such a retarded post?
Re: (Score:2)
You can nearly buy everything you want with bitcoin.
You stated it. And yes, it was a retarded post. I have no idea why you claimed what you did...
Re: (Score:2)
Why don't you google for goods and services that accept bitcoin?
Hu?
Instead of playing stupid ...
Re: (Score:2)
It comes from trust that it will be worth something when you go to spend it.
You can spend it on taxes. That's the real value. Sure the government backs it up with guns and tanks and such, but they only have so much ability to make people agree on how much goods and services are worth.
OTOH cryptocurrencies have exactly zero validity unless people agree to place value on them. I'm not sure which I trust more, governments or people.
Why give bucks (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Really?
I've had plenty of paychecks signed by people who probably had abandoned any traces of morality. I've been on phone calls with customers who hated me and any concept I might have been associated with, but whose business supported my paycheck.
You're telling me that investing in a cryptocurrency might support some government I don't like? I couldn't care less. It might go against some hairy muppet in office? I actually could care less... if it goes against that moron's desires, it moves my give-a-damn
The Tragedy of Venezuela (Score:1)
Sargon does a good job of explaining the current status of Venezuela. If you're smart you won't buy their crypto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNjtpksJD4s&t=386s
Cryptocurrency market reaction (Score:5, Insightful)
Bitcoin prices dropped about $200 to around $8,388, according to Coinbase, following the order.
Bitcoin prices fell way more than that the day before, because someone farted in a trading room I assume. And now they are going back up. This stuff's really volatile, a $200 price change is just noise.
Re: (Score:2)
Just like news articles often post the stock market has dropped 400 points for reason x, and by the time the article is posted the market is up 200 points. Most movement in financial markets have a lot more factors than news articles usually account for.
Cryptocurrency finally becomes a self-parody (Score:1)
A project that sprang from a motivation to eliminate the ability for central bankers to arbitrarily print money (by transferring the function of money creation to "the people") becomes the very tool used to facilitate it. Shockingly, It turns out that governments are members of the set called "the people." /s
Can someone explain to me why we have sactions (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Because there is a large military base and the bombs used to bomb Yemeni's from the stone age back into the stone age are 'murikan bombs, thus profit! We have a whole city there to support the bombing and that's all, profit! That is one reason we gleefully endorse the atrocities inflicted on an impoverished peoples by their very oil-wealthy neighbors. Oil!
Re: (Score:2)
We support bombing Shiite Yemeni, and when Sunni Yemeni get hit that is the unfortunate effects of war. If Iran had not paid the Shiites to try to take over Yemen, it would still warrant its Roman name of Arabica Felix (I think that is how they spelled it -- Happy Arabia, not Arabian Cat).
Re: (Score:2)
Why is it ok to bomb Shiite Yemeni and not Sunni Yemeni? Are they not all humans who should be free to live their lives?
I find weird the lack of consistency too being that Osama Bin Laden was a Sunni Muslim and he was our enemy... What is that about? Do we hate both Sunni's and Shiites or does that vary by region? Also, why the big hard on for Iran? We destabilized their nation by installing a puppet ruler and now we're mad that they're trying to get their shit together? Nation-building is hard work, w
Re: (Score:2)
No change from his predecessor's sycophants. Obama was a particularly brazen liar, but it really took the cake when he said Venezuela was a threat to the United States to justify sanctioning the country. As for Yemen, Trump is just continuing where Obama left off.
Pressing Issues. (Score:1)
Childrens lives threatened by gun violence..
Foreign manipulation of elections..
Healthcare..
NOPE... it's Venezuela!
LOLWUT!?!
Remember (Score:2)
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - Gandhi
Re: (Score:2)
Ask Adolf or Benny the Moose how that worked out for them.
Or ask any Indians, either Hindu or Islamic, how Partition worked out.
Re: (Score:2)
Relax, it's an observation.
Beating sick horses (Score:2)
Venezuela has enough problems already: leave them alone. The world is full of dictators, why focus on them?
What a waste of time (Score:1)
Why is he trying to double the amount of EO's Obama wrote
No news (Score:1)
Till China bans Venezuela's Cryptocurrency
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Russia attacked a NATO country and Donald Trump is still sucking Vladimir Putin's dick.
Lock this traitor up right fucking now.
The US issued sanctions as a result of the polonium assassination, it might issue more in response to this.
This particular action is in response to Venezuela's attempt to circumvent existing sanctions.
Re: (Score:2)
"Buy yourself a ticket and go fight Vlad yourself, you fuck."
You do realize that anyone doing this would automatically be committing an act of war on behalf of their home country, yes?
Re: (Score:2)
"The actions of a single private citizen, acting on their own initiative, would simply be criminal."
Not directly against Vlad or any other world leader, it would not be. Please try again when you've got the context actually locked down.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: pssht! get with the 21st century gradpa! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Breaking News, Trump bans fake currency that nobody uses. Declairs success.
Update: Trump denies any ties with campaign contributors who made a killing investing in a fake currency nobody had heard of before he talked about it and it's value doubled overnight.
Re: (Score:3)
Russia attacked a NATO country and Donald Trump is still sucking Vladimir Putin's dick.
I suggest you join the Army.
Re: (Score:1)
Have you seen what socialism has done to Venezuela, a country with vast energy natural resources per capita?
This is not a knee-jerk reaction.
Re: (Score:1)
That word doesn't apply the way you think it does.
Re: (Score:2)
For some it's part of a magical incantation... Others use other "strong words" without knowing the meaning of them, fascist is a popular one.
Re: (Score:3)
Fascist regimes can also be corrupt. Socialism in itself (whether that word really applies to Venezuela or not) isn't the problem.
The main problem is an authoritarian regime intent to keep control by any means, illegally enriching supporters and punishing others.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:For Trump, socialism==bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
Norway, Sweden, Finland. Germany, France, and Italy have socialist tendencies as well. Unchecked corporate greed gets you 'murika which is demonstrably bad for most.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
So for you socialism is only the end-stage of Marxism? Hilarious!
Re: (Score:2)