Trump Proposes Joint 'Cyber Security Unit' With Russia, Then Quickly Backs Away From It (arstechnica.com) 389
In a series of tweets yesterday, President Trump proposed "an impenetrable Cyber Security unit" with Putin "so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded and safe." The news came as a shock to just about everyone who got word of it, including congressional members of his own GOP party. Less than 24 hours later, Trump decided against it, tweeting: "The fact that President Putin and I discussed a Cyber Security unit doesn't mean I think it can happen. It can't-but a ceasefire can,& did!" Ars Technica reports: "It's not the dumbest idea I have ever heard, but it's pretty close," Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican of South Carolina, said of the plan. Senate Republican Marco Rubio of Florida tweeted that "partnering with Putin on a 'Cyber Security Unit' is akin to partnering with [Syrian President Bashar] Assad on a 'Chemical Weapons Unit."' Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said that Trump and the Russian president decided at a meeting during a Group of 20 nations summit in Hamburg, Germany, to embark on a joint "cyber unit to make sure that there was absolutely no interference whatsoever, that they would work on cyber security together." But on Sunday, after it was clear that the plan was going nowhere, Trump took to Twitter and said no deal. That didn't stop Rep. Don Beyer, a Democrat from Virginia, from introducing on Monday an amendment to the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act that would bar a US-Russian cyber accord. He said: "Donald Trump's proposal to form a 'cyber security unit' with Putin is a terrible idea that would immediately jeopardize American cybersecurity... Trump must acknowledge that Russia interfered in the 2016 election and take strong, meaningful action to prevent it from happening again in future elections."
The mental gymnastics he displays are amazing (Score:5, Insightful)
That was an even bigger flip flop than when went from, "There was no collusion" to " Collusion isn't even illegal anyway, what me worry".
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I can't look right now (I'm at work), but last time I checked the bookies DJT was odds-on being out before 4 years. $10 would win you $21 if he went the whole 4 years, but $10 would only win you $16 if he left office due to resignation or was impeachment.
I don't recall seeing odds on going 8, but I'm sure they were there.
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I put more faith in a bookie making money than DJT following through on his 4-year commitment. I predict we'll see him declare victory and resign.
Just lol (Score:5, Insightful)
Our president tweets every half baked idea he has and then the rest of the government has to scramble to make sense of or defuse the tweet. It's all fuckin funny
Re:Just lol (Score:5, Insightful)
A bit like the Pythia at the temple of Apollo, who would generally speak gibberish, that her priests would then interpret. I don't know if it is funny, but perhaps it will be if we live long enough. But we are only about half a year into his precidency, and already Honey Monster is rushing towards a military confrontation with the beached whale in North Korea. I mean, think about that; the Chinese have since the Korea War, kept NK as a buffer between themselves and America's vassal state in the south, and they are increasingly assertive about their territorial aspirations. Will they just sit quietly by while Trump sends troops into NK, provoking them to use whatever nuclear weapons they have and escalating from there? Hardly - I doubt they are all that keen on Kim's perverse regime, but they definitely don't want American expansion in the region, and they do have an alliance with NK, which gives them a legitimate excuse to join the war. North Korea may be easy enough to flatten, but China isn't. The US may have enough weaponry to convert China to a slag heap, but not before they have sent their own missiles on the way - and they do have enough of those, without a doubt.
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Instead of some joint "cyber security unit", we might want to have some type of "red phone" system instead. Maybe a "blue" or "green" phone. My idea is to at least have some high-level notification system when a nation-state detects some major outbreak; like when the recent DNS DDOS happened.
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While it's funny, imagine other scenarios with other leaders. People are always hanging on leader's words. Kim Jong Un always followed by generals holding notebook and pencil, ready to write down any words of wisdom. Turkmenistan, where the president for life (now dead) renamed all the months of the year. Imagine an absolute ruler a thousand years ago, maybe senile, maybe mad, everyone jumping at every word and taking it seriously.
Anyway, some perspective. No matter how crazy Trump seems, it's relatively m
Re:Just lol (Score:5, Insightful)
I find that unlikely, but if he believed it was a good idea for even a half of a second, then he is too mentally unfit to be president.
I think this has already been established.
Putin may even be blackmailing trump and Trump is doing what he can to accomplish Putin's goals to avoid the blackmail being revealed.
Everything that Trump does is motivated by growing his and his family's wealth. Russian banks gave loans to Trump, and that's why he's being so friendly towards Russia. Qatar did not agree to a loan [theintercept.com], and look what happened to them.
LOL! (Score:2)
Yes, please Mr. Putin. The CIA, the FBI, and the NSA collectively can't seem to muster the resources to secure a copy of Windows. Can you please send us some ex-KGB experts to help with the leaks?
Trump should be enjoined from any Russian contact (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Trump should be enjoined from any Russian conta (Score:5, Interesting)
Considering Trump Jr. has admitted he met with a Russian lawyer (along with Kushner) during the campaign to get dirt on Hillary ...
More importantly, that particular news was "leaked" by three White House staffers at pretty much the same time, all of whom stated (unusually, for this administration) they could be attributed as White House staffers... meaning it was an intentional leak, and was likely an attempt to get ahead of something even more damaging that may be coming out soon.
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Re:Trump should be enjoined from any Russian conta (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be more concerned that there WAS dirt to get on Hillary than who it came from.
In this case, according to Trump Jr. at least, there was no dirt, it was a dead end.
Who cares who gave it to them?
The FBI, seeking material assistance from a foreign government for a political campaign is illegal. If Trump Jr. is telling the truth then he broke the law.
The whole "Russia" thing continues to be a giant nothingburger than the left won't stop trying to push. No one cares.
The whole "Russia" thing is steadily getting worse. Though in one sense this news is slightly good news for Trump. The fact they sought out this lawyer in an effect to conspire with the Russian government suggests that at that time there were not (yet?) conspiring with the Russian government (otherwise why not ask their FSB contact directly?).
Re:Trump should be enjoined from any Russian conta (Score:4, Interesting)
1. This is the narrative that the Trump administration has been repeating constantly and daily
2. Much of the evidence is highly classified. It can't be made public because it would most likely reveal how we collected the info, burn overseas agents, and do all sorts of real harm to the US's intelligence gathering capabilities. Publishing the "proof" would be giving all foreign intelligence agencies the exact blueprint of how to not get discovered.
Recently, I've been telling anyone saying "no proof!" that "There is proof, it's just above your security clearance".
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Recently, I've been telling anyone saying "no proof!" that "There is proof, it's just above your security clearance".
That was the same argument I heard over and over to get us into Iraq. The CIA/FBI/NSA are not trustworthy.
Where have I heard this before... (Score:4, Funny)
> Recently, I've been telling anyone saying "no proof!" that "There is proof, it's just above your security clearance".
Which is the same reason they still won't show us the aliens they captured in Area 51.
Let's face it.... (Score:5, Insightful)
...this so-called president is an idiot who is in waaaaaaaaaaaay over his head.
Re:Let's face it.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, yeah. That's been obvious for a while. Trump is conclusive proof the Peter principal has no upward bound.
What's a problem, though, is thats Trump's supports don't support him for rational reasons. They've attached their identity to him and see any criticism of Trump as criticism of themselves. (For proof, look no further than any Trump supporter in this thread)
GOP's got two big problems. How to save their asses, and how to bring their voter base down off this problem gracefully. If Trump leaves office with a shitstorm things will get ugly.
Re:Let's face it.... (Score:4, Interesting)
I have to disagree there. I have been watching american elections for 20 years and if there is one thing thats reliable, its that its always like 51% to 49%. Between 2% and 10% of the actual electorate is swayed by things like infidelity and war mongering. The rest just vote on party lines. I really don't think trump could ever be bad enough to seriously change that. I mean look at bush. Perhaps the most hated president in recent history and yet obama barely won, 53% to 46%. 46% of americans voted to continue down the road bush was on. And you had a great recession come in at the same time (arguably a gigantic disaster, like you are saying trump may cause) and yet they STILL didn't want to change course!
Face it, 90% of americans are just like this. Its in their nature to support whatever side they believe in no matter what.
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Yeah well, he got everybody to forget about Bush... And remember when Nixon was the bottom of the barrel? I guess records are meant to be broken.
Soooooooo.... (Score:3)
Yeah well, he got everybody to forget about Bush... And remember when Nixon was the bottom of the barrel? I guess records are meant to be broken.
Soooooooo.... you guys miss me yet?
-- George W. Bush
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... and he also has small feet!
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...this so-called president is an idiot who is in waaaaaaaaaaaay over his head.
and he keeps getting attention - does he deserve it?
If so, why?
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...this so-called president is an idiot who is in waaaaaaaaaaaay over his head.
and he keeps getting attention - does he deserve it? If so, why?
Because he is the President of the United States, still a position with a lot of influence.
Because despite his record-low approval ratings, there are still many people that support him.
Because he is aligned with a political party that in many ways just as idiotic.
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Initiative (Score:2)
Cartoon from a Dutch Newspaper about this: (Score:5, Interesting)
And, in the meantime, this is happening (Score:3)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0... [nytimes.com]
But, his emails!
Can we now end this experiment? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It seems his idiot son is doing a rather good job to ruin the Presidency.
Not the stupidest (Score:2)
"It's not the dumbest idea I have ever heard, but it's pretty close," Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican of South Carolina, said of the plan
Of course not! Graham has heard other Trump ideas.
His private talk with Vlad was fruitful afterall. (Score:4, Insightful)
I have a better one. (Score:2)
Partnering with Putin on cybersecurity is like partnering with Donald Trump to make something great again.
Really? (Score:2)
Where Has He Been Getting His Loans (Score:2)
Re:Why is this a dumb idea really?? (Score:5, Insightful)
But why is this a bad idea?
.
Would you form a joint intelligence sharing with them? Because this is sort of like forming a joint intelligence unit. If you've every dealt with operational security, you'd know why this isn't likely to work well. At best, it's reaching your unprotected arm into a snake pit every 15 minutes to count the snakes. While we may be able to get some small benefit, it would come at too high a cost in intelligence assets. For one thing, it would let them know how we conduct security, for a second, who is involved. And in intelligence, half or more of the battle is knowing who and how.
And I'll simply point out who leaked emails when, and where, as to the pure intentions of the Russian government.
Re: Come On (Score:2, Insightful)
Man, you don't know shit. You claim to have large org infosec background, but nothing you post indicates that
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And we would let them know any of that why and how again??? Come on, think it through. You don't need to let on to any of that to gain some benefit from both sides.
So, if you're not sharing any information about cyber attacks, then what actual benefit is there for the other side? What would the point be of having a joint cyber security unit if there's no "joint" about it?
Screaming full-on hubris (Score:2)
Seriously?
You think intelligence work is like that?
The lowest, newest grunt in the military has more background on the topic than an office worker.
Re:Come On (Score:5, Insightful)
A corporate security team won't send assassins to inject your most valuable people with ricin pellets. Or strew Strontium 147 around their house. Or seduce their daughter. Or rape/sodomize your son. The Russians have. The Soviets, back in the day, simply preferred to kill them. So, in a measure, that's an advancement of sorts.
But sure, lets blame Russia for Hillary / the DNC being so contemptibly corrupt that leaking emails from them sank a presidential canaanite against a guy as easily beaten as Trump.
You seem to think I thought HRC was a good choice. I do and did not. Simply a better choice than President Trump. And I reviewed the postfix configuration posted to reddit thought to be HRC's server. It wasn't perfect, but I didn't see any glaring errors either. Did you review it? Do you even know postfix?
You are just another tool who has lost his functioning analytical mind to sheer raw hatred of Trump
I will admit that he is not as bad as I thought he could be. Which is not to say in any way I think President Trump is good. Simply that we have as yet had the NKPR lob a nuke on any major city. But I will remind you that one need not use a ICBM to deliver a warhead. UPS will do. Or folks with impeccably forged documents. I will remind you that the $50 and $100 dollar bill are the most difficult to forge documents, yet the NKPR forges them to the point the the Treasury Department and the Secret Service tag them as "Super Forgeries" and millions of them pass every day. Yet most of President Trump's supporters are focused on those with brown skin as a serious threat.
Fear and xenophobia are the stock and trade of the Republican party. Also, it would seem, extreme stupidity though I prefer to think of it as focused on issue I am not concerned about. If I absolutely loathed a policy like Obama Care for the past seven and a half years, I surely would have another to replace it once my party had secured the majority in the House and Senate. Yet, 150+ days into a majority house, senate, and white house, and soon Supreme court, I don't see anything at all being done.
I understand that you dislike the policy. I get that. I am, very unfortunately headed down hill from personal medical issues. I don't expect to be here next year. Such is the luck of life. I cannot get SSI Disability by law because I did not pay into SSI for over a decade. And because I left the job with a private policy before the 30 years it takes to "vest", I can't draw from it either. So my choice is to die at my desk, or starve. Largely because of public service.
So be it.
I did my damn level best for you, and your children. What I got was spit on, called a pig in the trough, and had my car and home vandalized and death threats and now I face declining heath because to give me anything is "feeding the pigs at the trough."
I get that. It's not how I treat people, but standards differ.
Yet you call me names when I did no such to you, and still do not. I understand you are unhappy with the status quo. I am too. But I don't let that keep me from trying to be kind. We are not enemies. We have a difference of opinion, a difference of standards. Let me tell you how I try to live. Look up my post on "Let's change the name", and try to apply it to your own stance.
Let me leave you with this thought: Be happy. Find something in your life that gives you joy, and share it with others. Anger is simply fear turned outward. A brave man may have many fears, but that does not keep him from doing the thing that is hard; the thing he most fears. Because a brave man dies only once, but a coward dies a thousand times.
You are not a coward.
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A corporate security team might send mercenaries, though. And what the mercenaries would do is anyone's guess, really.
Re: Come On (Score:2)
You should send me an email.
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I've been on corporate computer security teams for large companies, so I know why it would work, unlike you who can't seem to imagine how...
Should I assume your suggestion in that role was to establish a network security alliance with the hackers hammering your firewalls? Because that seems to be what you're advocating here.
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There's NK and China, which are a lot more focused on this area and do a lot more damage.
Well, it'd kind of trump everything NK & China have allegedly done (lots of secret stealing on China's part, and, um, leaking of the Seth Rogan vehicle The Interview by NK) if Russia contributed to altering a US presidential election don'cha think?
Or wait, did it turn out NK did the Playstation Network hacks too? I kind of stopped following those.
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In a court of law, that is called speculation. SUSTAINED!
It is speculation, but it is informed speculation. When the Magnitsky Act was implemented, it put sanctions on certain Russian individuals. Russia retaliated by doing the same thing to certain Americans as well as barring Americans from adopting Russian children. Donald Trump, Jr. has said the meeting with the Russian lawyer had to do with adoption. So their looking for some relief around the Magnitsky Act isn't far fetched, as it is related to adoption.
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Wow. I am going to assume that you are unaware that any thread I post to, I am not going to be allowed to moderate.
And no, I don't have another account I use on Slashdot. They are pretty good about spotting those. I know, because I have the code, and it's there to check for it.
But I'm sure you'll think otherwise. OK. Believe what you will.
Just look at my posting history, and see if that fits with what you believe. Reputation is what others think of you, but honor is what you know about yourself. I know what
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Blah, blah, blah, apk, blah, blah, FAKE, snarf, sockpuppet, yadda yadda, apk
Dude, nobody cares about your ranting. You can't even look up any responses because you post AC. What are you getting out of this?
Invite Jeffrey Dahmer to join neighborhood watch.. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is like inviting Jeffrey Dahmer to join your neighborhood watch after he kills your neighbors.
I know that the right wing has bought into Trump's treasonous collusion with Russia, but this is ridiculous.
This is a tech website. Do you actually mean to tell me you would willingly put a hacker that maliciously attacked your country on our cyber security team?
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first intelligent post I've come across so far
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The Russian government can't cop to a lower charge (Score:3, Insightful)
The Russian government is not some guy that can be appealed to with leniency in criminal cases.
Russia is a hostile foreign adversary who has attacked us and has an ongoing cyberwarfare campaign against the United States.
It is idiotic to partner cyber-warfare defense with the very entity which is currently attacking you. We have allies like Israel and Germany. Why would we partner with our adversaries who are currently attacking us?
Trump's treasonous crime spree has gone on long enough. The Russian governme
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So, how does it feel to be on the receiving end for once? Because with allies like you, who needs enemies anyway?
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HEY! Antifa people do things. like complain, and protest.. pretty much any excuse to not work..
Re:It was done w/ Kevin Mitnick & others... ap (Score:4, Insightful)
See subject: Know WHO makes the best defenders? The most skilled OFFENDERS (this IS my racket, the defense side & was my job on several levels (code, network defense etc.) for decades)).
APK
P.S.=> It happens & Mitnick? He wasn't even very good to be straight up about it. Today's 'hacker/cracker'? WORLDS above his level... apk
Those were done AFTER they switched sides.
A company who uses a reformed black-hat hacker to penetration test their network is daring and innovative.
A company who uses an active black-hat hacker to penetration test their network is bloody moronic.
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Under a competent administration, it likely would not be a terrible idea. Under this administration, and under these circumstances, however, it's nothing more than a distraction.
Re:Why is this a dumb idea really?? (Score:5, Insightful)
And thus the "right" shows that King comes before country and George Washington can go fuck himself in their eyes.
You know why it's a bad idea, you are just pretending that it isn't because you want to continue to follow Dear Leader.
Re:Why is this a dumb idea really?? (Score:5, Interesting)
Moscow–Washington hotline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]–Washington_hotline
Environmental Modification Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Apollo–Soyuz Test Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]–Soyuz_Test_Project
Treaty on Open Skies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Chemical Weapons Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
The Kennedy-Khruschev Exchanges http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20t... [yale.edu]
RD-180 engine imports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
As for cyber security? Why not? Might stop some spam and other evil-doers.
It's not a word for the left (Score:3)
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They're trying to figure out a path to victory that doesn't involve things like single payer healthcare, college for everyone and proper, continuous job training.
Or they want sound economic policy with sound social policy. Here is a thought, if those ideas are universally good and you can do them while having sound economic policy, why don't blue states try it in their states? Nothing is to stop them from doing single payer or college for everyone or any other social policy you want. A lot of arguments really come down to it being forced by the federal government without being tried in the states.
For all things I don't like about New York they are trying the college
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In certain respects the interests of Russia and the U.S. as world super-powers are aligned, and cyber-security is one of those areas.
Um, no it isn't.
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Seriously? You are arguing on a tech website why having a joint operation with a country proven to have interfered on your own is not a terrible idea?
Trumpsplaining (Score:2)
I heard one Trump apologist explaining his divorces are good, because they show you can get divorced and not screw up the kids. Do you agree? Trump says he could shoot someone and not lose voters. I'm starting to wonder...
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Why would it not be a good idea for both countries to share information as to potential ongoing attacks, and even have a similar kind of hotline akin to the Red Phone to have a dedicated 24x7 contact to ask if one country was really under attack from another, as it might appear...
Sure, but that's not what was being proposed. You've rationalized the President's notion into something a lot more reasonable sounding. The president was talking about enlisting Russian aid in developing an impenetrable barrier (I laughed out loud when I heard that) to foreign election meddling. Making the Russians an equal partner to that would be be like making the Mafia a partner in your anti-organized crime effort. In fact the FBI did something very much like that in Boston with Whitey Bulger.
It's no
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AC the same reason a person who once was a Senator has to consider the politics of a person who once was metal worker.
Or a peanut farmer or a naval aviator or Director of Central Intelligence.
Leaders with very different pasts meet, talk and nations work together on common issues.
The party of ideas = the one in power (Score:5, Insightful)
During the Obama administration, it was the republicans who weren't coming up with any real noteworthy ideas beyond "NONONONO" and "Lets try reaganomics for a third time!"
That's what happens when you have a two party system and the far right hyper polarizes things because they're upset that a black man managed to get to be president. You get a one party system basically.
Don't worry. If free elections in this country are ever held again and Democrats get power, they might be the only ones coming up with "ideas" and it will be the republicans who do nothing besides whine they're not being given a seat at the table. Except probably not, democrats have so far been too spineless to actually do turnabout. I mean, when Obamacare was being formulated, they spent almost a year negotiating with Republicans, taking hundreds of amendments. Exactly one GOP congressperson voted for it despite it being a plan initially proposed by Newt Gingrich and implemented by Mitt Romney. And they labeled it as evil socialism. Who the fuck were they kidding? If democrats ever get in power again, they'll try a similar "be nice to the irrational bully" approach, and the GOP voters will still accuse the democrats of being dictators.
Re:The party of ideas = the one in power (Score:5, Insightful)
Democrats aren't in control of any of the three branches of government. A core of republican voters simply want the GOP to shoot down anything the center and left wants to do.
The problem at it's undeniable base is that Today's crypto-conservatism has no actual ideas, other than tax cuts.
When you are in command of the House, the Senate, the presidency, and have a majority of governors in the states, and still can't come up with anything, have had two different stabs at healthcare reform while excluding the enemy from the entire discussion, you have to face it, you are not competent. You cannot govern.
When you are in control of all those things, yet allow the longest crypto-war in US history to drain and weaken the country, while being able to whip yourself into a frenzy about which restroom that stupid-ass Caitlyn/Bruce Jenner takes a shit in, you cannot govern.
It isn't surprising that we have conservative versus liberal clashes. It's a great way to make a governance work. People oon the progressive side of the spectrum tend to have a lot of ideas they want to enact. Some are really stupid and/or impossible. Conservatives by nature tend to have less ideas, but in a healthy governance, oppose the stupid ideas, and let the smart ones go through.
And that's how we got to this point. Someone managed to get the conservatives to declare any but their own as the enemy. The managed to get elected by fanning the flames of trumped-up issues.
And now in power, are tripping over their tongues, not fit to govern even when they have a sizeable majority. But that is what happens when the fix for the nation's healthcare system is their only tool - a tax cut.
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The problem at it's undeniable base is that Today's crypto-conservatism has no actual ideas, other than tax cuts.
Unfortunately it's mutated past that. I think this is part of what made Trump so popular in the GOP. He was actually coming up with ideas. They were terribly stupid ideas, but in the vacuum of the GOP, they sounded great (to the GOP voters).
Look at how much excitement "build a wall" got. Christ on a cracker, the "conservative" party went nuts over it even though the price tag would make the most tax-friendly liberal blush. To say nothing of the fact that 90% of undocumented workers from mexico come in b
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Unfortunately it's mutated past that. I think this is part of what made Trump so popular in the GOP. He was actually coming up with ideas. They were terribly stupid ideas, but in the vacuum of the GOP, they sounded great (to the GOP voters).
Yes - I think you are correct. And to many crypto-conservatives, eventually there needs to be something else besides the Tax cut cure- all. When the party you vote for wants to take away your free health care - and make no mistake, the bedrock of crypto-conservatism has a lot of people who are on food stamps, medicaid, and other assistance - and replace what they are taking away from you with a...... you guessed it - a tax cut - they are starved for ideas.
Look at how much excitement "build a wall" got. Christ on a cracker, the "conservative" party went nuts over it even though the price tag would make the most tax-friendly liberal blush. To say nothing of the fact that 90% of undocumented workers from mexico come in by plane, or the wall would be 30 feet and easily climbable with a ladder.
I did some back of the envelope calculations, and
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And to add to the Tax Cut cure all. This solution has been proven not to work.
Kansas GOP Congress just over ruled the Governor because Kansas was broke. The GOP voted to raise taxes just so the state would not go into bankruptcy.
Notice that the GOP of Kansas actually were the ones that said this idea of cutting taxes will we make more revenue is not working.
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And to add to the Tax Cut cure all. This solution has been proven not to work. Kansas GOP Congress just over ruled the Governor because Kansas was broke. The GOP voted to raise taxes just so the state would not go into bankruptcy.
Notice that the GOP of Kansas actually were the ones that said this idea of cutting taxes will we make more revenue is not working.
I liken it to the rudder on a boat. When the boat is going fast, the rudder has a marked effect. The rudder is tax cuts. Taxes can reach a point where they are onerous. So you cut back on taxes some, and it can have an effect. The boat might go a little slower.
But when the boat is going very slowly or stopped, the rudder can flail back and forth with little effect.
So tax cuts have their very own limitations. Hopefully supply-side Jesus won't strike me with lightning.
And yes Kansas and Oklahoma are
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Today's crypto-conservatism has no actual ideas, other than tax cuts.
If only. Today's crypto-conservatism has plenty of ideas. But they're all about how to sell tax cuts as something they're not. How to flatter people that they don't need to think too deeply about issues, that simplistic answers are fine - and then convince them of the specific simplistic answer that government is always the problem. How to get the government to pay for things they want (and want to sell) while depleting it of resources to regulate the way businesses operate and treat their customers.
Re:The party of ideas = the one in power (Score:4, Insightful)
Today's crypto-conservatism has no actual ideas, other than tax cuts.
If only. Today's crypto-conservatism has plenty of ideas. But they're all about how to sell tax cuts as something they're not.
That's still the concept that the answer to every problem is a tax cut. Different problems same solution. And works so well in the states where they implement it. Only not.
How to flatter people that they don't need to think too deeply about issues, that simplistic answers are fine - and then convince them of the specific simplistic answer that government is always the problem.
And have managed to get people who are living off the government dole to vote for people who will kick them off their lifeline. A work of genius, if only temporary.
As for government always being the problem, isn't it amazing that there are so many people running for positions that they claim to hate? This would be like me decideing that I want to be a technologist so that I can eliminate technology.
Yet people buy it. People seem to think that this person that claims to hate government is going to make it smaller if only he and all of his hombres are elected. Very few people try to get a job that they hope to lose. A political non-sequitur.
How to get the government to pay for things they want (and want to sell) while depleting it of resources to regulate the way businesses operate and treat their customers.
We are sadly in the Pecuniary extraction phase of a successful country, where the money is extracted into the hands of a few people. This has some important side effects. We're already ceding leadership positions in order to make a few folks wealthier. Science is next. A communist country is building the next Superconducting supercollider while we are all arguing about Caitlin/Bruce Jenner's proper room to defecate in, whether or not people have to make wedding cakes for gay people, and closing off science advisory. A country that discards science for political ideology is in trouble, and we are become the 21st centurey Lysenkoists.
I don't know if there is a fix for any of that, but just wait until the Yuan becomes the de-facto currency of the world, replacing the dollar. That's when we will know that we masturbated ourselves out of leadership. And the same people who put us there will demand answers and blame.
I suspect their cure will be:
A tax cut.
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Re:The party of ideas = the one in power (Score:4, Insightful)
Is that like the liberal left and their only idea of throw money at it till it goes away?
You have none. Congratulations.
And do you really think that all the republicans are in a drum circle singing songs about how well they get along? McCain's and Graham's faction would LOVE Trump out of office because they could return to the war machine of selling weapons, something that President Obama and Hillary Clinton were all in on unless you missed the FACT that under President Obama they sold the most weapons to foreign nations of any president since WWII.
Perhaps I am arguing with a bag of weasels. Your unintelligent deflection argument ranks a zero on the scale. This is because people who make stupid deflection attempts are simply proving that they have absolutely nothing to ad to te conversation.
Obama and Clinton and selling weapons to foreign nations have absolutely nothing to do with this discussions. We are talking about you and yours having no ideas, and if you for a second think that that comment about people not even related to the subject at hand, that somehow arms sales by a couple Democrats trumps "The Republican Party has no ideas" - well you just proved my point. Problems wil go on, and you'll just blame blame blame.
Funny how people believe all the bullshit fed to them on the nightly news that this 2 parties are "ALWAYS" at odd with each other. If they are both cashing in on some underhanded deal you'd be amazed how well they can work together.
Funny how your attempt at defelection number two is just as successful at showing your utter mental bankruptcy as the first. It also brings up an interesting point. You anr yours are criminally weak. Can't fix problems, only whine and cry about how it's always the evil liberals, the Liberals who are so powerful that you can't defeat them even when they are in a significant minority. Sad.
This isn't about the previous occupant, or the person who didn't get elected to the POTUS. This isn't about CNN or MSNBC or FOX News.
It's about a political party that doesn't have a clue about how to govern, when having a clear majority, cannot put together a way to govern the country. Your defelction attempts are just showing that in a group of people who would try to equate a former president and a failed presidential candidate as somehow equivalent to the two failed attempts at passing a healthcare replacement bill, is clear proof that you have no ideas, only castigation. and therefore are pretty much a failure af governance.
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I like how you have no debate for what I said other than to name call and claim you are talking from some moral superior high ground. .
I have no debate for people who use deflection tactics. Your Hillary deflection would be as much a point as me pointiong out the Iran Contra affair. History, and not germain to the topic at hand.
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> The problem at it's undeniable base is that Today's crypto-conservatism has no actual ideas, other than tax cuts.
Here's an idea: leave people the fuck alone to let them make their way in this world. Stop throwing bread and circuses at people until they become blobs lacking any ambition and expecting magical fixes from the mother-state.
Ah, it's nice to hear from teh anarchists. Brcause as we all know, everyone behaves perfenctly until teh evil guvment come in and screws everything up.
Leaving "People the fuck aloone is a great way to become a slave or be killed by someone who tinks that bothering them is not leaving them alone to make their way.
Re:Treason is an idea afterall... (Score:4, Informative)
There is a picture of Donald Trump in the dictionary, right next to the word "Treason"
Donald Trump and many members of his administration and campaign are known traitors. They colluded with Russia's attack on our country.
You keep tip-toeing around the definition of treason while not actually providing it. This is because you know you are supporting a treasonous Russian puppet.
You support known traitors like Donald Trump and his crime family, because you are a traitor yourself.
Re:Treason is an idea afterall... (Score:4, Informative)
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
Since the US has active trade and diplomatic relations with Russia, it is extremely hard to call interacting with them treason. More generally, it is a bad idea to label people are "traitors" because they disagree with you on who a traitor is. The recursion here gets very bad very fast.
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Russia and Putin aren't the same entity, though some may think otherwise.
Re: Treason is an idea afterall... (Score:2)
While I agree that Trump's collusion with Russia is unacceptable, I feel your characterization is hyperbolic. This makes it easier for Trump and his supporters to dismiss criticism when the criticism is so exaggerated. I don't know if I'd call it treasonous--but they're certainly not the actions of a man fit to lead this country.
Re: Treason is an idea afterall... (Score:2)
How the fuck is that informative? Russia, as much as you may want them to be, is not actually a formal enemy. They weren't even a formal enemy during the Cold War. That's why use were charged with Espionage and not Treason.
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No. But if you believe that's all that happened, perhaps you'd be interested in buying this bridge I have.
Re:At least he has ideas (Score:5, Insightful)
As per the HHGTTG, he is fulfilling the role of the Galactic President admirably. People can't stop watching him, or talking about him, and in doing so, he is providing the very useful service of drawing attention away from those with real power. Remember, the role of the Galactic President is always filled by the most controversial candidate, the one who brings about finely tuned outrage.
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Even if they're stupid, at least he's coming up with some ideas ...
Now that's putting a positive spin on things.
We have the best stupid people, who put out the best stupid ideas. Awesome!
Re: At least he has ideas (Score:5, Insightful)
Or we could just get rid of medical insurance and pay the doctors, nurses, and hospitals directly via the government... but like whatever, helping people is fucked and I don't need anything from society. I made the device I'm typing this with metal I mined, refined, followed by teaching myself with no books or teachers how to transform and program to connect to slashdot... let alone the lack of help I got getting myself outta that fucking womb and then walked out of the hospital got a job and earned the tools to start this process.
You stupid fucking twat.
Re: At least he has ideas (Score:5, Insightful)
You clearly misunderstand what Obama did. He pushed a snowball down a mountain. By making the dismantling of Obamacare political suicide, he's made a single-payer system an inevitability. He didn't view the ACA as a perminant solution and neither did any of them Democrats who pushed it through congress. The fact remains that it's better than what previously existed and a step toward the only morally acceptable form of healthcare in a first world country, which is single-payer.
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You're intentionally conflating an irrelevant story with the healthcare system. When it comes to removing life support, there will always be controversy one way or the other and that has nothing to do with a single-payer healthcare system. The Terri Schiavo case was a similar one in the United States. Of course, you were probably well aware of your fallacy and that's why you posted AC.
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Except 4 communism like how Carl Marx originally intended it to be. Problem with communism is it always ended up getting "perverted" by tyrants. One of my profs had a good idea of 1 year term limits to keep these type of people under control. Putin would be instantly kicked out and not allowed to go back into office and probably have to go back into the KGB.
But what is to stop ex-leaders from influencing current leaders? Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
It is harder to metal in American Elections when u are not the President of Russia.
I agree, metal is hard. Though I think the word you're looking for is 'meddle'.
Re:SOROS losers? (Score:5, Funny)
I get $2800/month, plus expenses, health care (includes vision and dental) and two weeks paid vacation. Sometimes, Mr Soros will put a little something extra in my pay envelope when I really make the AC trolls on Slashdot go wild and piss themselves in impotent fury and post in caps.
But I've got to tell you, they refuse to match my 401k contributions. Soros can be very stingy, but you know how those people are. And you ACs know exactly who I mean, amirite?
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Re:What is the hate about? (Score:5, Insightful)
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