Cable Industry Threatens To Sue If FCC Tries To Bring Competition To Cable Set Top Boxes (techdirt.com) 100
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Techdirt: Back in February the FCC voted on a new plan to open up the traditional cable box to competition. According to a fact sheet being circulated by the agency (pdf), under the FCC's plan you'd still pay your cable company for the exact same content, cable operators would simply have to design systems -- using standards and copy protection of their choice -- that delivered this content to third-party hardware. The FCC's goal is cheaper, better hardware and a shift away from the insular gatekeeper model the cable box has long protected. Given this would obliterate a $21 billion captive market in set top box rental fees -- and likely direct consumers to more third-party streaming services -- the cable industry has been engaged in an utterly adorable new hissy fit. And now, the industry is also threatening a lawsuit. Former FCC boss turned top cable lobbyist Michael Powell is arguing that the FCC has once again overstepped its regulatory authority: "An agency of limited jurisdiction has to act properly within that jurisdiction," Powell said, making it abundantly clear the NCTA does not believe the FCC has not done so in this case. He said that the statute empowers the FCC to create competition in navigation devices, not new services. "Every problem does not empower an FCC-directed solution. The agency is not an agency with unbridled plenary power to roam around markets and decide to go fix inconveniences everywhere they find them irrespective of the bounds of their authority."
now we know why (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:now we know why (Score:5, Insightful)
And the cable industry is slowly killing itself by alienating the customers.
They may show a profit right now, but sooner or later there will be an avalanche of customers leaving and stick to OTA transmissions or get what they want over the net on Netflix and other services.
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Yeah, those cable customers are going to drop their cable TV service to watch Netflix... on their cable internet connections.
That'll really show those big bad regional cable monopolies who is boss.
I wish slashdot had a Kappa emoticon.
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Yeah, those cable customers are going to drop their cable TV service to watch Netflix... on their cable internet connections.
Obviously this is something they do not want or they would not be trying so hard to get me to add cable to my Internet. And if enough people do this, there will not be enough money in "cable boxes" to make the fight worth while. The ironic part is that Comcast (and many other cable companies) allow you to use your own hardware for Internet already and the world did not end.
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I did read the summary, but not the article - I am no heretic. What scares/saddens me is that it is a 21 billion dollar market. Americans are paying 21 billion dollars, per year, on just set-top rental fees. Really?
As for your prediction? People have been saying it for years. Laser discs were to shake up the industry as we know it. Dire warnings were given with Beta/VHS on the scene as everyone would just get their content on cassette and not watch on the air. Then it was the DVD. Then it was Netflix. Then
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I'm not saying that it will happen soon, but younger people get a lot of content directly on the internet and only a few of them hooks on to the cable TV. It's currently a slow process but with fewer viewers it means that sooner or later the prices will be too high for the remaining viewers and they will drop the cable.
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What concerns me more and more is the continued availability of OTA.
We cut the cord just before 1990. Our TWC basic service had just exceeded $40/mo. Our house at that time had an antenna with a rotor on a tower so we switched over. It cost $200 for a new antenna and rotor and coax cable for the entire house. When we bought our current house, one of the first things that went in were two antennae on a tower (one for each of the two major markets available in our area). We receive just over 80 channels. Admi
screw cable! (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF
I'm just glad that guy isn't in government any more -he represents the worst aspects of regulatory capture and the revolving door between government and industry.
cable is dying anyway thanks to millenials, cord cutting and the unavailability of a la carte pricing -Good Riddance
-I'm just sayin'
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one of the few govt agencies that is actually trying to do consumers some good
..by doing what, inventing the cable card again?
Ignorance.
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What, so overly complex abortions designed by committee (to fail) like cablecard are the only possible solution to cable access in your opinion? Nothing else can exist?!? Geez, people like you really deserve to continue paying through the nose for cable.
Comcast has already delivered access to content using Samsung "smart" tv's without any cable box, they need merely document the interfaces that they require and come up with a validation suite so that you can all drop your expensive "rental" boxes.
I'm fortun
Re:screw cable! (Score:5, Insightful)
If the FCC really cared about doing what's best for the public, they'd simply say "Cable TV is over; you are all plain common-carrier ISPs now. Spin off your content divisions into separate companies and they can become streaming services. You are no longer allowed to be both at once."
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Too much change too suddenly hurts everyone. That would simply mean the infrastructure decays until it no longer supports dial-up rates.
If that's necessarily true, then it only means that you'd pay a lot for the ISP part, and a relatively little bit for the cable part (if you bought it at all.)
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Federal intervention at the level you're asking for almost never happens. Only when the excesses on an industry become so flagrantly abusive to the general population does it happen: Standard Oil, AT&T, etc. I agree that the ISP/Content consortiums in the USA are "bad" for customers (quite literally), but not that they have delved far enough that there is anywhere near the public (and political) support necessary to make such an intervention possible.
So, absent the radical breakup, consumers should supp
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Is there really enough bandwidth for every TV in use to be streaming it's own custom hi-def video? Is there not some kind of 'broadcast over IP' protocol that would allow a single stream to service thousands of users - who would 'tune in' like they do to broadcast TV/Cable programming? If not, there should be...
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A cursory search suggests that an HD video stream requires about 4Mbps. (4K requires about 15Mbps.) Both of those are well within the range of cable internet speeds, even for multiple TVs (although perhaps not at some of the lowest billing tiers). The only question is whether the ISP oversubscribed their backhaul too much...
As for "broadcast over IP," there is broadcast addressing [wikipedia.org] for IPv4 and IP multicast [wikipedia.org] for IPv4 and IPv6. And Bittorrent, of course! : )
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Not sure if this is sarcasm or not...
Coax has (in general terms) fixed bandwidth to your home. Cable TV is digital and going over those lines today so there's absolutely bandwidth for those channels. Perhaps some small overhead for using IP, but the actual content data is the same.
Oh, except they wouldn't be able to force you to pay for boxes for each TV. The switch to digital cable TV is how the cable companies got away from previous rules that didn't require a box per TV...it only took 15 years or so f
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This time they are simply telling cable companies to ditch the cable box. How they do that is up to them. Android TV and Apple TV can easily fit the role.
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one of the few govt agencies that is actually trying to do consumers some good
..by doing what, inventing the cable card again? Ignorance.
Yet it seems to work well for cable modems. I do not rent mine from Comcast...
Re:screw cable! (Score:4, Insightful)
one of the few govt agencies that is actually trying to do consumers some good and they are overreaching?
Remember when everyone was calling Tom Wheeler, and by extension Obama, shills that were in the pocket the of the cable industry?
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Remember when everyone was calling Tom Wheeler, and by extension Obama, shills that were in the pocket the of the cable industry?
Yes I remember at the time he was proposing an internet fast lane.
2014 [time.com] [pivot] 2015 [fortune.com]
Not that I'm complaining.
Re:screw cable! (Score:4, Insightful)
The legal question isn't if the proposal is good or bad policy, the question is if the Congress granted the FCC the power to make such a regulation.
Consider if the EPA was to issue a regulation requiring that all employers provide sexual harassment training annually for every employee. In that case there would be no question that the regulation was not something within the EPA's charter and would (and should) be struck down by the courts even though it might be a good policy. There might even be another agency that did have the power to issue such a regulation, but that wouldn't make the EPA's regulation legal.
If the FCC doesn't have the power to issue this regulation, the fact that it is good or bad policy is immaterial as are the motivations of the plaintiffs challenging the FCC. In a Federal courtroom, it's extremely unlikely that any question of the motivation of the plaintiff would be allowed as it would be a waste of the court's time. Such questions are no more relevant than questioning if the CEOs were left or right handed.
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Situation in the EU (at least my country) is better:
The cable TV usually contains analog signal that you can connect to any TV and in addition digital channels transmitted using DVB-C which is supported by new TVs natively and older TVs need an external tuner (STB). Some channels are encrypted, for those you need to pay for a decryption card (looks like a SIM card) that you insert into the TV or tuner.
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IPTV needs a box of course (and since I am an admin of a few networks of small ISPs, I can tell you that making different boxes cooperate would be very difficult).
However, when someone says cable TV I think about coax cable which does not require the box.
I have cable TV (analog signal on coax) from one company and internet (FTTH) from another.
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All TV is digital now in the U.S. (even broadcast OTA) in order to free up spectrum and cable TV used to be required to offer basic cable and local broadcast channels unencrypted, over the wire, via clear-QAM.
Then in 2012 the previous FCC chairman and commissioners decided to change that rule and let cable companies encrypt everything [fcc.gov] and thus require ALL users to pay a monthly fee for a set-top box, in addition to their normal service fees.
This also means that the clear-QAM tuner hardware in TVs, that incr
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OTA TV is digital-only in Lithuania too. However, cable companies were providing analog signals before and continue to do so, because people like the fact that you can split the cable and connect multiple TVs to it without paying for multiple boxes (if the TVs do not support DVB-C) or decryption cards (if the channels are encrypted).
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In the US, there's no reason cable can't still be analog, but the big cable companies used the government mandated shutdown of OTA analog TV broadcasts a few years back as an excuse to tell their customers that "Oh hey, you're gonna need a cable box to watch TV now. By the way, you have to get the cable box through us and we only rent them." There was enough confusion and people didn't know better that the cable companies basically got away with it. So I can't really blame the FCC for cracking down on th
Not a true Conservative, eh? (Score:2)
I can tell you're not a true radical Conservative.
If I understand (radical) Conservative thought right, the single most detrimental organisation we know is "The Government", and one of the worst things they can possibly do is to interfere with "The Market". In whattever form or shape.
So here's (my impression of) the Conservatove take on things: the FCC is one of the tentacles of The Government, and it's trying to interfere with Private Enterprise (i.e. the Cable industry). Now that's Wrong .
Free market and other fairytales (Score:3, Insightful)
How well did the "free" market handle this? Not very well, did it now. Free for cable industry to have a fixed market. FCC needs to step in.
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Corporations are big fans of competition when they're testifying to Congress that regulation isn't needed. In the real world, not so much.
Re:Free market and other fairytales (Score:4, Insightful)
What is "free market" about the cable industry? Those words have meaning. For the low price of a few cents, you can use the device you used to send that message for something else - like learning what those words mean. No matter where you put the quotes, there's no free market involved with the cable industry. At least not in the country where this is taking place, there isn't.
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Cable TV is already dead (Score:1)
Between the internet and over-the-air TV, why on Earth would I pay an extra 50+ dollars a month for more crap to watch?
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Because they won't sell you internet unless you agree to also buy their crap. Or they can just charge you for the crap along with their internet, but not give it to you. Your choice.
Jurisdiction (Score:1)
Could the FCC call in a favour with the DoJ? That should work out OK regarding jurisdiction.
Not this again... (Score:2)
Even if they *didn't* get sued I don't see this going anywhere. They've already tried this with CableCard, and except for TiVos and some in-TV setups there wasn't a big debut of third-party yes-you-own-it-outright equipment.
Then, there was supposed to be an entirely software-based version of the same thing. Never even got off the planning board.
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Even if they *didn't* get sued I don't see this going anywhere. They've already tried this with CableCard, and except for TiVos and some in-TV setups there wasn't a big debut of third-party yes-you-own-it-outright equipment.
Then, there was supposed to be an entirely software-based version of the same thing. Never even got off the planning board.
Is TiVO not a good example of people wanting it? Didn't they just get bought for 1.1 Billion? Someone must think there is something to it...
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I honestly think that Tivo was just popular enough with the right people at the right time to get cablecard working for themselves that it became "viable".
I've owned a Tivo since 2002 and I can remember how broken the cablecards were when they came out. There were practically entire forums devoted to all manner of voodoo on how to actually get a cablecard, get one that worked, etc.
It was like "if you live in Minneapolis and use Comcast, call Jenny on Tuesdays before 2 PM and Thursdays between 9 and 11 am a
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If cable companies can't have all of the money, it seems that they don't want any of it.
Provided no one else gets it, either.
Like when they don't want to wire an area, but go to great lengths to keep anyone else, especially local governments, from being allowed to do it.
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"if you live in Minneapolis and use Comcast, call Jenny on Tuesdays before 2 PM and Thursdays between 9 and 11 am at her direct number"
That's still 867-5309, right?
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It's not the 80's anymore. 612-367-5309.
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They've already tried this with CableCard, and except for TiVos and some in-TV setups there wasn't a big debut of third-party yes-you-own-it-outright equipment.
They also did it with cable modems, and it works very well. I am using a Motorola Surfboard 6141 that I bought at MicroCenter right now. So it can work...
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Re: Cable boxes are the foodhold of a dying indust (Score:2)
Re: Cable boxes are the foodhold of a dying indus (Score:2)
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Satellite TV is pretty useful for people who live in an area not served by good broadband or cable or someone who travel in an RV a lot. These people are not "dumb", it's just the best option for them.
weird (Score:5, Funny)
Tom Wheeler - former cable lobbyist turned FCC Chairman
Michael Powell - former FCC Chairman turned cable lobbyist
Does anyone else feel like maybe we should try swapping our politicians with our lobbyists for a month just to see if it works elsewhere too? ;)
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I think the American People shoud get together to pool their resources, and hire a lobbyist to represent them in Congress.
Re: weird (Score:2)
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No, because I can go exchange my cable box or modem to time warner any time it breaks or a new one comes out
If I buy and it breaks I have to buy another one. And 30 years of open windows and Android has shown me that open standards mean slow performance
My experience with TWC cable boxes makes me appreciate my TiVos all the more.
When TWC started charging rent on cable modems, I bought one which is about the same quality/level of performance as what I'd be paying rent on, and for what I would have paid in rent I can buy a new one every year and break even. But I don't need a new one every year, so basically what I saved the first year repaid what I spent, so it's like I got it for free.
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No, because I can go exchange my cable box or modem to time warner any time it breaks or a new one comes out If I buy and it breaks I have to buy another one. And 30 years of open windows and Android has shown me that open standards mean slow performance
In Houston, ROI on a cable modem purchase vs rental is 5 months. And my cable modem is 2 years old. And as far as exchanges go, Mircocenter has shorter lines than Comcast, and Amazon delivers...
How DARE you! (Score:2)
Cable companies to FCC: "How DARE you try to mess with our outdated, overpriced business model!"
What's new? (Score:1)
He's not wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
"An agency of limited jurisdiction has to act properly within that jurisdiction," Powell said, ... "Every problem does not empower an FCC-directed solution. The agency is not an agency with unbridled plenary power to roam around markets and decide to go fix inconveniences everywhere they find them irrespective of the bounds of their authority."
He's not wrong, not every problem does empower an FCC directed solution. It's just too bad for him that this problem does empower a FCC directed solution.
Do you think he swims in all the money they are giving him like Scrooge McDuck?
Imagine the cable equivalent of DD-WRT (Score:1)
I can't wait to gain what Time Warner and Cablevision refuses me in New York:
The ability to do PictureInPicture
The inability to remove do a "learn" mode so pressing up and down on the remote won't advertise to me what blocked channels they want me to start paying for. What use are all these modes on my TV set if it's only ever tuned into channel 3 (ok, "HDMI 1")?
I also guarantee that competitors will also be removing all the waiting from bufferbloat (when tuning a channel, even just seeing a number after pr
Cable boxes have no future (Score:2)
Cable TV is going to be an app on your TV or your PlayStation or a Roku-like device. The boxes have no future.
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No. Regardless of what the FCC does. No one is going to make a useless box. Any cable company that requires one won't be able to compete with PlayStation Vue or Sling TV or Apple's cable replacement service or Amazon's cable replacement service.
Let 'em sue (Score:2)
The Feds have deeper pockets.
FCC should just cite All Writs Act, Done! (Score:2)
The FCC should just cite All Writs Act, Done!
The boxes have no brains (Score:2)
The cable companies are already moving to a model where the cable boxes in your home have almost no real smarts of their own. There's just enough there to boot linux+busybox, display video content, and render the menus. The heavy lifting, and ALL of the brains (if you can call it that) of the system are handled on the back end by the cable company. Even if you are able to purchase your own box, I suspect you'll be forced to license their software anyway and still get a monthly fee jammed down your throat
Corporations are people my friend .... (Score:1)
It is far easier to create a corporation than real people, easier to create a chain of complex parent corporations and child corporations. It is impossible for us to stop corporations from sneaking across our borders. It is imposs
What cable industry? (Score:3)
Cable industry? What cable industry? Every year I do this dance with Comcast, where they raise the prices on my cable bill by 50% or more, and I have to call their "customer retention department" to get a better deal. LPT: say "cancel service" into the phone to get a live agent on the line almost immediately. To get the better deal, they ask me what shows I watch, to figure out which channels I need, to get the cheapest package possible with fewest channels. And every year I realize that I watch less and less shows. This year, with the Mythbusters gone, and a few other shows I used to watch on cable, I think I'm down to network TV, so I might as well cancel the thing and get a TV antenna. I still have Netflix and it's been pretty great. I'm sure I'm not the only one going in that direction. It does seem that the "cable industry" is really trying its best to kill itself as fast as possible. Now I just wish I could as easily do the same with the medical insurance ever increasing premiums...
Why wouldn't they? (Score:2)