Obama Is Forgiving the Student Loans of Nearly 400,000 Permanently Disabled People (marketwatch.com) 406
An anonymous reader writes: Hundreds of thousands of student loan borrowers will now have an easier path to getting their loans discharged, the Obama administration has announced. The Department of Education will send letters to 387,000 people they've identified as being eligible for a total and permanent disability discharge, a designation that allows federal student loan borrowers who can't work because of a disability to have their loans forgiven. The borrowers identified by the Department won't have to go through the typical application process for receiving a disability discharge, which requires sending in documented proof of their disability. Instead, the borrower will simply have to sign and return the completed application enclosed in the letter.
checks on the system (Score:5, Insightful)
This is significant money being given forgiven. The administration would serve themselves better if they put up even small, reasonable checks on who is able to actually get this benefit.
Just like how you start to get very mad at people who are able to abuse handicapped parking spots because the govt is totally lax about who get to use this benefit (not just who has the placard, but who uses it). Trust in the appearance of public institutions is just as important as actual functioning -- a small number of cases of fraud and abuse can undermine it.
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Clearly, they already know who is qualified or they wouldn't know who to send the forms to. I would guess a quick query of the SSI roles would tell them all they need.
I understand your confusion, government usually likes you to jump through a few hoops and lick their hand before they acknowledge the obvious.
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It says it applies to people who get benefits because they can't work. Aren't there checks for that? In the UK there are rigourous and actually quite harmful tests.
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It says it applies to people who get benefits because they can't work. Aren't there checks for that? In the UK there are rigourous and actually quite harmful tests.
I believe there was a qualifier of "good" checks, because what we have is anything but rigorous as you claim to have in the UK.
Don't misunderstand, we do have some checking. It's very subjective as to whether or not it actually prevents fraud.
Re:checks on the system (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:checks on the system (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/ar... [cnsnews.com]
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I'm not entirely sure if you're critical of phony unemployment statistics (like the kind that eliminate "discouraged workers", the people who have given up looking) or whether you think that "disability" is a new code word for lazy.
I'm inclined to believe that there's more to disability than simply being quadriplegic. There's all the hassles of getting to and from work. Maybe less of a burden if you grew up that way and you've adapted your entire life to that "lifestyle" but what if you already owned a hou
Re:checks on the system (Score:5, Informative)
Disability is the new welfare. It is another place we hide true unemployment numbers. In a time where every business has to be handicapped accessible and when most of us that earn a good living do so by basically sitting on our arse all day in front of a monitor, the term "permanently disabled" with the possible exceptions of quadriplegics and such strikes me as pretty ridiculous.
I have to say that your post made me pretty angry. I have a degenerative neck injury. While I am perfectly capable of getting around and living a relatively active lifestyle, there are days where I can't get out of bed. Eventually I will probably have to go on disability. Sure I sit at a desk all day but what employer wants to put up with me being unable to work randomly because I'm in too much pain? As it is now I take more time off work than I'd like going to doctors appointments and for treatment. Every 6-18 months I have to have a nerve ablation. It's a pretty painful procedure but I'd already be on disability now without it. I've managed to hold down a job despite my injury for the last 7 years. If I'm lucky I'll be able to make it another 20 before it becomes too much. I have no interest in going on disability but I will be surprised if I can avoid it my entire life. Crack a few vertebrae in your neck and tell me how you feel even when youre "just sitting on your arse all day."
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90 percent (or more) of SSDI claims are rejected on the first go-around.
If you do not have professional help, especially when you have a legitimate disability that makes the paperwork extremely onerous, you are far better off hiring a lawyer. Indeed, a lawyer friend who had to go on disability hired a lawyer himself, because it wasn't his specialty, and when you have memory issues and whatnot, doing the paperwork your own self and getting it right is next to impossible. It's especially hard when you need
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Here [studentdebtrelief.us] are the checks and process that an applicant must go through to get the loan forgiven.
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These are people receiving disability benefits from Social Security, if you want to combat fraud it'd be wiser to improve the checks there. The problem here is those that are eligible aren't aware of the program, everybody knows there are handicap parking spots but if you can't see it and nobody tells you and you never apply it doesn't happen automatically. Also it seems about half are already defaulting and since they're permanently disabled they'll probably never recover from that, this is just as much a
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Maybe not. Some of them may be vets, using a combination of GI Bill and student loans to finance their education. If they have a condition that's later ruled to be Service Connected, their compensation comes from the VA, not Social Security. I know because when my hearing started to go about ten years ago it was ruled that it was caused by my exposure to outbound shore bombardment back in '72, and my diabetes was eventually listed a
Re:checks on the system (Score:4, Informative)
Just like how you start to get very mad at people who are able to abuse handicapped parking spots because the govt is totally lax about who get to use this benefit (not just who has the placard, but who uses it). Trust in the appearance of public institutions is just as important as actual functioning -- a small number of cases of fraud and abuse can undermine it.
I don't get mad at ANYONE who uses a handicapped parking spot (with the proper permit). Maybe they're parking the car for a disabled person they dropped off at the front door? Who knows. It's not my place to judge and I have seen someone who was legitimately disabled accosted by someone who didn't think they were disabled enough. It was a young guy I knew that had 4 inches of bone removed from his leg after a drunk driver almost killed him. So why get angry at people who use handicapped permits? Even if you have your own handicap permit that person you're angry at may need it more than you think.
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Since what I'm replying to is Anonymous and ergo 0 scored I'll give 'er a bump:
They are not saying: "If you're disabled you no longer need to prove it!"
They ARE saying: "Hey we already know you're disabled and have a school loan so we're going to be nice for a change and ease the process of getting you off of our ledger."
This is a specific bulk cleanup operation for existing people in this situation not a change of ongoing policy.
You can now return to not caring about the details and arguing...
Generous with OTHER PEOPLE'S money (Score:2, Insightful)
Is not it awesome, when you can spend other people's moneys and get all the credit for your "generosity"?
Are single mothers next on the list? Their's is a difficult lot too.
How about racial minorities — we know, they are economically disadvantaged [financialjuneteenth.com] as well?
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So what's your alternative, horse whip the disabled until they hop out of that wheelchair and sweep the floor?
The money was gone anyway. They physically lost the ability to ever pay the loan back. There's no need to keep needling them about it.
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"Disabled" does not mean "insolvent" [wikipedia.org].
Responsible people carry disability insurance. Irresponsible ones get "forgiven" by the government. Which group would you like to shrink and which to expand?
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I guess it's fortunate that Dr. Hawking's intellect was left intact. Some don't get that benefit.
BTW, the way disability is set up in the U.S., it pretty much does mean permanent insolvency.
But back to the point, the money is GONE, what is the actual point (other than self-righteous cruelty) in spending more money needling them about it periodically?
Nationalized loan industry (Score:2)
Not if you carry disability insurance.
But, like I asked earlier, why stop at the disabled? Single mothers rarely prosper too — should their loans be summarily forgiven in the same fashion? Why not?
Good question! How would a bank go about it? Maybe, this whole business of student loans should've remained in private hands [collegeinsurrection.com], huh? Then it would've been discussed by the b
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You are begging the question, when you claim "isn't coming back".
Disability does not mean insolvency, and the insolvent — whatever the reasons for their misfortune — should all be treated the same. Why are the disabled singled-out?
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I see the problem here. You didn't actually READ TFA (or the summary), you just saw that some poor schmuck might get something for nothing and went to DEFCON 1.
This is for people who have been found to be Totally And Permanently Disabled. That is, medically incapable of any sort of gainful employment. It also means there is no reasonable expectation that the situation will change. I'm guessing that involves more than a 35% drop in after tax employment income.
It is not for people who now need a cane or a whe
Re: Generous with OTHER PEOPLE'S money (Score:2)
Responsible people carry disability insurance.
And if they can't afford it??
Dumbass.
Re:Generous with OTHER PEOPLE'S money (Score:5, Interesting)
oh just shut the f up.
if you became disabled and can no longer work, how are you going to pay back the loan?
if you become disabled and unable to work, which is who this is talking about, you can discharge most other debts under bankruptcy. that is right and just, and a purpose of bankruptcy, allowing people to move forward.
but you cannot discharge student loan debt under bankruptcy.
this remedies that. and as such, loan forgiveness in this situation is perfectly just and logical, except to small minded idiots like you.
and its not technically spending anything.
the money's already spent.
and in most cases already repaid, on a dollar for dollar basis.
its the interest games that hold this debt over peoples heads for so long, because for some reason banks are more deserving of 0% interest rate loans than our future workforce, because we can't seem to make the same jump the rest of world has to seeing educational as a investment in the future instead of something be loaned.
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Funds thus obtained should not be spent on simple charity:
The same could be said for foreign aid, disaster relief, disability support, etc. We vote people into office and direct them to be charitable in many ways because we as a people see charity as a good thing..
By the way, Madison was talking about giving aid to French refugees from the Haitian Revolution and not all charity in general. There is still a debate about this as programs like this may fall under the General Welafe Clause [wikipedia.org]. It could be said that it is good for the general welfare of a country to take
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Indeed. In fact, foreign aid is exactly what what discussed, when Madison said the words I quoted. We should not be doing any of that either — leaving it to private charities [economist.com] — unless, perhaps, it demonstrably benefits the national security [usaid.gov].
The refugees were the topic on the agenda that day,
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Actually, by that illogic, it all belongs to Federal Reserve's — an enigmatic institution successfully fighting off attempts to fully audit [thehill.com] it for decades [sott.net].
Unlike you, perhaps, I find no satisfaction arguing in an echo-chamber...
Re: Generous with OTHER PEOPLE'S money (Score:2)
I'm sorry the legally elected president is black
Calling Bathhouse Barry "black" is almost as dumb as insisting that he's Muslim (apparently you can get people to believe anything). He's 50% white and 45% arab, BTW...
Makes sense to me (Score:5, Insightful)
I know everyone's going to scream "evil socialism! disability fraud!" but people who actually qualify for a permanent and total disability are never going to be able to fully benefit from their education. Whether it's the inability to do physical work or acknowledging the discrimination that disabled people encounter in the workplace, the result is the same.
In this case, it makes sense to make it easy to get rid of the debt. If I recall correctly, student loans are almost impossible to discharge any other way. Bankruptcy doesn't get rid of them, nor does crippling financial hardship. There is a process to forgive them due to hardship but it's so onerous that no one in a normal situation would qualify.
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http://ldihealtheconomist.com/... [ldihealtheconomist.com]
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Re: Makes sense to me (Score:2)
The reason for it is there are no jobs there and people have learned how to game the system.
It's so fucking difficult to get on disability even with an obviously valid reason that reports such as this make me suspect bullshit neocon propaganda...
Old News (Score:5, Informative)
This program has been around since 2010. The only difference now is that the administration is sending out letters to people they see as eligible for this program. Up until now there have been few who have applied for it. It could be they do not know about it, think it is too difficult, or that they do not qualify. All the letter does is emphasize that they can apply and sets out the process. This is not a straight out forgiveness. Each disabled person must apply [studentdebtrelief.us] and be approved to have their loan forgiven.
Disability claims increased 44% after unemployment (Score:2)
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This sounded interesting to me, so I decided to take a peek.
It doesn't look like there was a significant jump in claims from 2012 to 2013 - the number of claims actually decreased: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS... [ssa.gov]
There WAS a significant jump from 2008-2009 (about a 500k increase), but I don't see anything close to a 43% jump.
Can you show me where you got your data, or are we looking at completely different information (maybe claims to state aid instead of federal)?
student loan need the old bankruptcy rules (Score:3)
student loan need the old bankruptcy rules.
Under the rules in place the schools are jacking of there rates and are willing to take just about any one with the banks giving out loans to just about any one with pulse.
100K before interest for a masters in medieval studies we don't care that will not get much then working at Walmart.
80K before interest for a BA in women studies sign hear.
No blood from a stone. (Score:2)
Until you or someone in your family has tried to obtain disability benefits through SSA/SSI you can have no idea what an ordeal it can be --- or the restrictions that come with it. Consider yourself fortunate if you do not have to go to Legal Aid for help for an appeal before an administrative law judge.
You can live modestly on an SSI budget, but those student loans will never be repaid, and it is fantasy to pretend otherwise.
Article #? (Score:2)
Which article of or amendement to the Constitution puts the president in charge of student loan payments?
Re:Article #? (Score:4)
Which article of or amendement to the Constitution puts the president in charge of student loan payments?
The Administration (i.e., the officials in the executive branch of government under a particular chief executive) is responsible for implementing the law and regulations that Congress approves.
I hope my kids get one of these! (Score:2)
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NO HE DID NOT. This has always been allowed. (Score:4, Informative)
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Having a student loan does not qualify as news for nerds.
Sure it does if you properly frame the problem:
Government help IS socialism!
3... 2... 1... FIGHT!
Re:News for nerds, how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone has to pay for it.
People who cry out socialism at the drop of the hat don't want their tax dollars being used to help those OTHER people. That don't mind if the government pays for the programs that they care about, say, Social Security benefits.
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97% of student loans (or something close to that) is from the Federal Government, not a bank. The loss is on the taxpayer, banks did not loan out this money.
The ACA passed by placing all the interest collected on student loans to pay for the ACA. In order for that to be enough they had to take over pretty much every single student loan in the country. If they forgive student loans that means the ACA will not be fully funded. So we are taking money away from giving health insurance to poor people in orde
Re:News for nerds, how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone has to pay for it.
People who cry out socialism at the drop of the hat don't want their tax dollars being used to help those OTHER people. That don't mind if the government pays for the programs that they care about, say, Social Security benefits.
Uh, I'm the one paying for Social Security.
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Uh, I'm the one paying for Social Security.
Twenty years from now about two-thirds of the federal budget will go to Social Security and Medicare. Retirees will outnumber workers, reducing the amount of taxes going into the system. Who will make up the difference in benefits and pay for everything else? The few taxpayers who are still working.
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What's going to happen then is anyone's guess but I bet it wont be pretty.
If nothing is done. The quickest — and perhaps easiest — solution is to abolish the wage cap at $118,500, tax all earned income for social security and build up the trust fund for future generations.
Re:News for nerds, how? (Score:5, Insightful)
Amen its my money going into Social Security not a freaking handout!
That's not correct. Your money in Social Security is paying for today's retirees. When you retire tomorrow, tomorrow workers will be paying for your benefits. Unfortunately, 20 years from now, there won't be enough workers to pay for retirees.
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That's not correct. Your money in Social Security is paying for today's retirees. When you retire tomorrow, tomorrow workers will be paying for your benefits. Unfortunately, 20 years from now, there won't be enough workers to pay for retirees.
Funny that you should mention that. In the early 1980s, congress passed a law saying they could "borrow" from the Social Security fund using treasury bonds. So no, you are wrong, even if you are effectively correct since the government has no intent on ever paying back the money they plundered from the Social Security fund.
Good thing poor people never go to college (Score:2)
Besides, the rich are going to get subsidies. Get over it. Focus on your needs and if you're a decent sort of chap the other 99%.
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Besides, the rich are going to get subsidies.
A classic example is a Harvard law student liquidating his savings to buy a BMW to qualify for financial aid. A luxury car doesn't count against receiving financial aid. If you didn't own a luxury car, you must be really poor.
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Buying a luxury car does make you poorer though.
That's the whole point when applying for financial aid. If you're going to Harvard Law school, you're guarantee to get a job despite the glut of lawyers throughout the US.
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So it's like insurance where I pay and pay and pay but never get to use the money I paid? Do I get a refund of all the money I've been forced to hand over to a private company for no reason?
Re:News for nerds, how? (Score:5)
No. We just realize that the money has to come from somewhere. The ultra-wealthy are a poor target because they can defend themselves. That leaves the rest of us.
Once you've been around the block once or twice, the mere promise of rainbow ponies isn't enough anymore.
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"Since Reagan, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into a mental hospital.
So what we have is one perfectly good party for hedge fund managers, credit card companies, banks, defense contractors, big agriculture
and the pharmaceutical lobby - that's the Democrats.
And they sit across the aisle from a small group of religious lunatics, flat-earthers and civil war re-enactors who mostly communicate by AM radio and call themselves the Republicans" - Bill Maher
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I have the same feeling about senior citizens.
If you are lucky, someday you are going to be one. I bet that you will be just as adamant then that the promises that were made to you while you were working and having money extracted from your paycheck based on those promises be honored, as you are adamant now that senior citizens who have had their money taken with the promise of benefits when they get old are "lazy losers".
Your reply to the OP is a non-sequitor. People paid into social security their whole life and they have a right to expect the bene
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Not sure how the details of the forgiveness aspect works for these cases, but I doubt the gov't is asking any servicers of government backed student loans to take a loss.
This option for forgiveness in the case of disablement was actually already available, but I guess it was a huge bureaucra
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The tax payer already has paid for it. Student loans are guaranteed (and since 2010 have been direct from the government).
There is a simple solution to this problem -- at least on the loan side. Any one who has ever gotten a student loan should have to pay an additional small percentage in income tax, say 1%. This money would act as an insurance pool for defaulted loans. This would allow students who can't pay off their loans to be able to declare bankruptcy. This would still hurt their credit but at least
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The second one. More students means you need more faculty and more administrators (and people to administrate the administrators, and so on).
And the more people you're in command of the more important you are, and the more important you are the more you get paid.
What do I win?
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>> Instead, the borrower will simply have to sign and return the completed application enclosed in the letter.
Because if you're good with IT and you have a student loan, NOW is the time to hack/socially-exploit the system sending the letters to get your name on the list.
Re:News for nerds, how? (Score:5, Funny)
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And the IRS is not so forgiving.
Forgiveness doesn't come into it. The IRS can't simply say, "Oh, we're not going to tax this income but we'll tax that income." In fact it's inaccurate to say the IRS taxes anyone. Congress taxes people, and the IRS simply collects what Congress tells them to.. Your congressman would like you to believe it's the mean old IRS, but it's not; it's him.
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Earning an extra $100,000 (as in the example) will put the person in a higher tax bracket...
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No, in the year the $100K balance is forgiven then they have $100K of income and they're pushed into the 25-28% brackets (give or take filing status, other income, deductions and credits).
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Rome is burning but nobody is fiddling.
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[...] just getting compensated for their loyalty.
I'm still waiting for my Obama iPhone that everyone claims that the government is handing out like candy.
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I'm guessing the privacy of these individuals will outweigh your FOIA request, so good luck with that.
Re: Something Smells Fishy Here.. . (Score:2)
Re:Something Smells Fishy Here.. . (Score:5, Informative)
Ever known someone who was disabled who applied for Social Security benefits based on it? It's not easy to get them to admit that they are disabled. It seems unlikely to me that successful disability fraud would be all that common, because it's so damn difficult to get disability payments with a genuine disability. Got any references?
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It seems unlikely to me that successful disability fraud would be all that common, because it's so damn difficult to get disability payments with a genuine disability
Do YOU have any references?
Re:Something Smells Fishy Here.. . (Score:4, Insightful)
I dunno. Why don't you go and actually look.
Yes, that's my contention as well. You don't know.
You see, if YOU are going to make an argument, the burden isn't on me to prove your point. If you want to make baseless statements, well, good for you, but you aren't going to convince too many people that way. I had assumed incorrectly that you posted here to try and make a point, not just waste the Internet's bits. My mistake.
You: Did you know that Idaho has the largest number of people with an IQ > 150?
Person: Really? Where'd you hear that?
You: I dunno. Why don't you go and look it up yourself.
Brilliant.
Re:Something Smells Fishy Here.. . (Score:4, Insightful)
Disability Fraud is a different thing. Root cause and all. That should be addressed BAU, regularly.
This feels awful, ;like these former students are getting away with something. But the truth is, they are incapable of paying off their loans, and to pretend otherwise is to just wait until they die, and then saddle their heirs or such with the bill. Which isn't much of a solution. Unless you really, really want to collect from anyone, by any means. We've outlawed many of the most grievous debt collection methods elsewhere, so why not let the gummint go ahead and use those, right?
I don't see the downside to this.
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If you aren't reporting this fraud. You are part of the problem.
https://oig.ssa.gov/report-fraud-waste-or-abuse/fraud-waste-and-abuse
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First this..and well, you know it gets you in the midst of how Bernie is going to make college *FREE*...so, go Dems!!
The no verification thing on this, is the real kicker tho...
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1) you can thank congress, Obama has tried and he's still trying to close Gitmo, but apparently, senators think muslims who have been tortured are some kind of super villain and will lay waste if they end up in a normal prison. Conservative senators are the biggest fraidy cats.. they are all bluster.
2) We only assisted with non-military aid on a number of conflicts, and we put no troops on the ground. I think the only significant event that we bombed was Libya. Even with ISIS we've reacted with restraint
Re: trying to steal Bernie's thunder (Score:2)
he is incensed about is school shooting
If that were even remotely true, he'd actually be interested in rooting-out the actual causes, namely anti-depressants such as Paxil and Prozac.
Re: trying to steal Bernie's thunder (Score:5, Funny)
Re:trying to steal Bernie's thunder (Score:4, Informative)
2) We only assisted with non-military aid on a number of conflicts, and we put no troops on the ground. I think the only significant event that we bombed was Libya. Even with ISIS we've reacted with restraint. Compare that to the last guy in office.
US forces have been directly involved with both Libya and Syria. There's nothing magical about "boots on the ground" as direct involvement is direct involvement. Our planes or ship flown and sailed by our pilots and sailors have send shells, missiles, and other ordinance into those conflicts. Thus far, Obama has been responsible for lobbing ordinance at Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya, Syria, and the Philippines.
Also interesting of note is that the usage of ordinance in Afghanistan rose under Obama.
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Where are they getting that money from ? Oh, right. Taxes.
And borrowing money from China to cover the difference between the taxes coming in and what Congress has approved to spend. Don't forget that the budget limit has to go up to cover the spending that Congress already approved.
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I don't know if you can write a check for a fraction of a cent.
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Simple. They get the list of disabled from Social Security, which has a rigorous process that often requires the totally disabled to get a lawyer to get their benefits. If they're classified as disabled by Social Security, odds are very, very good they are. Why should the disabled have to go through two arduous processes to get their disability recognized?
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So your vote matters after all, eh?
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sending in documented proof of their disability
Do you mean to tell me that it's too much trouble for them to send in a copy of their liberal arts degree?
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They are still unable to pay.
Horse left the barn. No one is closing the doors.
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disabled when they decided to enter post secondary education
And what is the nature of their disability that didn't interfere with course work but interferes with holding a paying job?
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Maybe they signed up for Iraq in a fit of patriotism to defend our country and then got their ass bombed or some other thing and now are disabled. Maybe they were a fire fighter and then went and helped to save people from the world trade towers and then breathe the terrible air and then got disabled.
People become disabled, not everyone was born disabled. It's people like you that cause people who do get disabled to feel ashamed because they no longer contribute to society.
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Combine that with food stamps and other perks (like cable and cell phones) and dope is the only thing you have to pay for out of pocket.
My disabled friend gets disability. He doesn't get food stamps or anything else from the government because he doesn't qualify. The cable and dope bills comes out of his disability money.
Don't believe everything that you hear out of the right-wing echo chamber.
.
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That's what everyone screaming "taxation is theft!" isn't processing. It's not really loan forgiveness -- the year it's discharged, you get a 1099-C just like any other cancelled debt. So, take a timely example, let's say a student takes out $250K in loans thinking they're going to be a partner at a white shoe law firm after going to law school at Kansas State University. Even if they managed to get on permanent and total disability, that $250K would be fully taxable as income, so you're just swapping one c
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http://ldihealtheconomist.com/... [ldihealtheconomist.com]
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Is K-12 education theft? Is funding our military theft? Is funding of roads, police, and fire departments theft?
Choose carefully. Depending on your answer, you will fit one of two options.
1: Yes, all those things are theft. In which case, go start your own anarchist, theft-free government in Somalia or some other lawless hellhole. I am happy to pay a portion of my income to obtain all the various benefits of civilization, if you aren't, there are plenty of places out there to live out your anarchist fantasi
the economy is dead pretty much (Score:2)
That is where your comment jumped the shark.
You have clearly never lived in a country where the economy really is "dead pretty much". Those countries don't have 5% unemployment.
Re: Not the (only) way people want debt forgiven (Score:2)
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