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Republicans The Almighty Buck

Laid-Off Disney IT Workers Decry Offshoring At Trump Rally ( 707

dcblogs writes: Two former Disney IT workers spoke at a Donald Trump campaign rally on Sunday, telling about the shock of having to train their foreign replacements. Speaking at the large rally in Madison, Ala. was Dena Moore, a former Disney IT worker who trained her foreign replacement, and said tech workers are reluctant to talk about the problem. IT workers "are afraid, they're in shock," she told the cheering crowd. "They're not coming forward because we have been taught all our lives to make do and keep going on. But you know what? This little old grandma is going to stand up for what's right. "The fact is that Americans are losing their jobs to foreigners," said Moore. "I believe Mr. Trump is for Americans first."
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Laid-Off Disney IT Workers Decry Offshoring At Trump Rally

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:05AM (#51614015)

    Hah, Trump vs. H-1B/Offshoring.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:22AM (#51614111)

      Here we go...painting this as a racism issue.

      I have had to deal with being replaced by H1-b for quite a few years. I even trained my replacement too. It was just a couple of us. We got the project going and the company brought in the H1-bs to maintain it.

      I never found work again. I got the BS line of "you don't have the skills" (never heard back when I asked, "what skills are those?") and usually heard nothing again. It's funny how "skills" are age and wage dependent in this profession.

      And then to hear in the media that we Americans don't have the skills and that's why they need to hire H1-bs. Funny, quite a few of my classmates at my American university were some of those H1-bs.

      My family looked at me differently as well as friends. I even had a family member take me aside and ask, "ARE YOU AN ALCOHOLIC!?"


      This isn't about race. This is about American businesses exploiting very poor people. This is about gaming the system so that they can arbitrage wages and to increase the tech labor supply to suppress everyone's wages.

      I don't blame the H1-bs. I'd do exactly the same thing in their shoes.

      What I blame is the crony capitalist system we have where we little people get screwed and the benefits go to the top.

      When Disney canned their IT department in Florida, did they pass the cost savings to consumers?

      Fuck no!

      So, where does the savings go to?

      The CEOs and they get a bigger bonus for screwing us over.

      This is just the business and political elite exploiting their laws to send us all spiraling to the bottom.

      STEM work is for off-shoring to developing countries and immigrants from those countries. Any smart American kid should go into medicine. Have a look someday at what the AMA does to immigrant doctors. (Hint: they usually end up as nurses.)

      • by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @10:17AM (#51614505) Homepage Journal
        I find it hard to believe you cannot find work.

        I would hire you just for your writing style.

        It is like poetry.
      • People who support the party of 'Unions are inherently evil and lazy' really shouldn't throw stones 'crony capitalism'.

        And if you do I don't really know how to even handle the conversation. It's a wonder how these people haven't self annihilated yet.

      • by DaMattster ( 977781 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:24AM (#51614983)
        It's absolutely crippling! I know exactly where you are coming from. I walked out of Corporate America and I was a Windows Systems Engineer. It is absolutely an exploitive environment! I About a week after resigning from my last IT job, I went to truck driving school and never looked back. I drive locally and while I don't love the job, I don't hate it either. At least I don't have to work in an office for a PHB
      • by Archfeld ( 6757 ) <> on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:44AM (#51615173) Journal

        Was expected to do the exact same thing, but our staff saw it coming and we 'failed' miserably to enlighten the East Indian HB1's. I was approached a couple of months after being laid off, with a very decent package I must admit to help restructure the group, but the $1000.00/hour figure I quoted the large financial institution I formerly worked for seemed to spook them. I wonder if they ever recovered the DB's I fixed for them during the training period. Backups are so fragile, and indexes so easily corrupted. Not long after I was contacted I heard from colleagues the group was outsourced to HP with about as much success as the HB1 migration.

        Note I got another job after my 18 months of salary ran out, but have since left the industry. I walk and sit dogs and houses now, getting paid much less but I am very happy, relaxed and work outdoors mostly on my own schedule.

      • by pnutjam ( 523990 )
        ...the management is very much in the saddle--and in most of these larger companies it is virtually self-perpetuating. How else could things be run in, let us say, the American Telephone Company, which has over a million shareholders, no one of whom owns more than one-tenth of one per cent of the stock? Looking at this segment of American business, we would almost find it appropriate to call our present economic system "managementism" rather than "capitalism."
        - Frederick Lewis Allen, The Big Change

      • by seoras ( 147590 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @05:15PM (#51617797)

        I was once, 20 years ago, an H1B.
        Back then I was "imported" because the US was behind Europe in digital telecommunications (ISDN).
        I didn't replace anyone, they had to advertise the job I was taking for a couple of months and I remember my boss laughing at the applications he was getting.
        They were still advertising my job even after I started it.

        Here's an anecdote : The ISDN between San Jose and Mountain View wasn't working for data. I called up PacBell and after getting past the clueless support guys ("can you get a dial tone sir?" - "no, because this is a digital system, not analogue") I got through to a lovely lady in engineering.
        Explained who I was and who I worked for (Cisco) and that they'd setup up their switches wrongly (US ISDN was 56Kb, they'd configure data between them at 64Kb which was causing the data corruption).
        She called me back later in the day to say I was correct in my diagnosis and thanked me. Myself and the other MV folk could now work from home.

        I remember one SFO immigration officer who cracked his knuckles in my face, rolled his neck and try to be as physically intimidating as possible when he bellowed at me "do you REALLY think an American can't do your job?".
        "yes", I reply. It was the truth based on the data I had.
        The anger swelled up in him to the point I thought he was going to explode.
        He threw my passport and papers at me and I went on my way.
        I stayed just short of 3 years. Too many "Trump supporters", for my liking.

        If H1B's are being abused then it's the employers who are abusing them.
        Don't abuse the people.

    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:51AM (#51614289) Homepage Journal

      Well, it only creates cognitive dissonance if you think like a moron. Thoughtful people understand that nobody is consistently wrong, any more than anyone is consistently right. The Nazis built the authobahn (a.k.a. "Reichsautobahn"), but I don't hear people arguing against superhighways because they were a Nazi idea.

      So it's a good thing that Trump brought up this issue; it'll force the other candidates to address it, or at least dance around it. But I doubt he really cares about it; he's too narcissistic and mercurial to care about anyone but himself for very long.

      • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @01:15PM (#51615953)

        So it's a good thing that Trump brought up this issue; it'll force the other candidates to address it

        There's also the small fact that Bernie Sanders has already been addressing it [] -- long before Trump brought it up, in fact -- and conveniently has none of Trump's racist baggage either.

        • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @04:53PM (#51617671) Journal

          Trump isn't running against Bernie though. The right is in open rebellion about being ignored on immigration and other issues where people who think themselves our betters just want us to believe what we're told. Trump is gaming that, and gaming it very well. Cruz is addressing that with at least partial sincerity (really, the best you could reasonably hope for in any politician). Rubio is a Democrat running in the wrong primary.

          Calling Trump "racist" tells me you're probably a Democrat - great for you, but it's not your primary. Sadly I predict the general will be Trump losing to Hillary, and 4 more years of the same problems we've been having, but the primaries aren't over quite yet, and maybe we'll have a surprise Bernie or Cruz.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:07AM (#51614027)
    Whether that means offshoring jobs, or speaking against offshoring jobs as a means to the presidency, or hiring foreign workers to work on his construction projects ... Mr Trump will always do what's best for Mr Trump. If your interests align with his great, and if they don't he'll try to convince you that they do for as long as he needs your cooperation. The only reason Mr Trump is running for president is because he thinks he can use the position to advance his business concerns and make him richer than he already is. Why waste money buying off politicians when if you can get yourself into office it's free?
    • Hillary has a shameful history of corruption that goes back to the 1970s. Even Micheal Moore shamed Hillary for taking bribes from the health care industry.

      The Clintons have been influence peddlers for decades.

  • Severance contract (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Actually the reason IT workers aren't talking about this is because they usually sign comprehensive covenants to get the severance payout.
    Didn't Disney end up reverting a good portion of the layoffs?

    • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:49AM (#51615225)

      Didn't Disney end up reverting a good portion of the layoffs?

      Disney cancelled planned layoffs in New York and California after the earlier layoff of 200+ workers in Florida became public. The way the PR announcement got worded, those layoffs could still happen at a later date.

    • by Penguinisto ( 415985 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:50AM (#51615227) Journal

      Didn't Disney end up reverting a good portion of the layoffs?

      They did - when they got caught and called-out on it in public. Can't sell as many animated DVDs if you have a bad reputation, after all.

      I'm fairly sure it has had another bad benefit for them as well. For instance, I remember a recruiter cold-calling me and asking if I wanted to work for them as a DevOps/Automation engineer. I politely told him that he can tell his client to collectively fuck themselves with a pole-ax, and specifically named their H1-B policy as the reason why.

      I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the first time he's been turned down that day, and I'm very certain that Disney is going to have a damned hard time hiring anyone that they cannot-so-easily replace (seriously - would you work for them in a capacity where they've demonstrated a complete disregard for employee retention?)

  • The Angry Mob (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KermodeBear ( 738243 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:08AM (#51614031) Homepage

    Trump is the end result of lots of people feeling disenfranchised and angry over many, many years. To be fair, there's a lot to be angry about, but I don't think that Trump's supporters are really thinking this one through. People who are angry rarely do. They just want "something" to be done.

    Welcome to the second wave of "Hope and Change" as a political platform.

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:11AM (#51614045)

      "Hope and Change" is quickly becoming "Seek and Destroy"

      • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:5, Insightful)

        by KermodeBear ( 738243 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:23AM (#51614117) Homepage

        It's certainly already starting. He's recently been threatening to use libel laws to silence news organizations that publish inconvenient content about him.

        His tactics to win an argument include: Threats of lawsuits, flat out lies, insults, and talking over you so that you can't get your own point across.

        If this guy wins then sane political discourse in America is well and truly dead.

        • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:4, Insightful)

          by jbmartin6 ( 1232050 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:35AM (#51614199)
          Sounds like Bill O'Reilly
        • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:4, Insightful)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) <> on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @10:38AM (#51614627) Homepage Journal

          Trump speaks his mind, in the same way as his supporters do. It's a chaotic, inconsistent mess that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, just like most of his supporters. The inconsistencies, insults, the threats, none of it matters because his supporters just see someone as reactionary as themselves.

          • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Gr8Apes ( 679165 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @12:11PM (#51615459)
            Trump is a symptom that the current political system is broken. Enough people are upset that they latched onto someone who focuses and represents their anger. It's why his numbers don't plummet when he makes one of his rather common blunders that would sink any of his rivals. Instead, his supporters ratchet up their support. It's almost a mob mentality stoked by invective. What caused this to come about? Well, when is the last time you voted "for" a politician? Maybe the 80s? Ever since, it's been the lesser of two evils, which has devolved to a point now that there are no choices left. This is also why Sanders is in the position he's in, because he's an outsider and pretty much unelectable as president until this presidential election. I personally would like to see a Sanders/Trump matchup in November, because either way, politics would be actually interesting for a change.
        • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:4, Interesting)

          by backwardsposter ( 2034404 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:03AM (#51614803)

          To be fair, lots of news organizations are resorting to libel, ignoring facts even during their own stories. The news runs free of any recourse for malicious reporting these days, and they need to be reined in as much as Trump does.

        • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:4, Interesting)

          by KGIII ( 973947 ) <> on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @12:10PM (#51615445) Journal

          > If this guy wins then sane political discourse in America is well and truly dead.

          Where the fuck have you been? Sane political discourse has been well and truly dead for a very, very long time. I'm not even sure that it was sane when I was a kid - and I was a kid when the Sun still had a price tag hanging off the side of it and dinosaurs hadn't even evolved.

          Has it gotten worse? Absolutely. However, I'm not sure that it was ever good. The difference is we now have more ubiquitous communication and access to knowledge, it was never good.

          I'm reminded of the folks who think Slashdot was a beacon of intelligence and civil discourse. I can link to but one thread and dispel that notion entirely. Like Slashdot, politics was never good. Even "better" is debatable.

    • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:25AM (#51614129)

      Yeah, they're angry, but apparently not about the right things. They should be angry about the growing gap between rich and poor, and the fact that the average American hasn't got any better off in the last thirty years, but if they were angry about that, they wouldn't be supporting a billionaire. They should be angry that their political system is basically in the pockets of well-funded interest groups that fund political campaigns, but a billionaire that bought himself a shot at the presidency with his own personal mountain of cash is hardly going to be the man to implement restrictions on campaign finance. Instead, they're angry about Muslims and Mexicans, who really, really aren't the cause of Americas problems. They should be angry that political parties so blatantly put their own electoral success ahead of what is good for America.

      Oh well, I firmly believe that democracy means you deserve the leaders you get, so if Trump ends up in the white house, so be it.

    • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Karmashock ( 2415832 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:43AM (#51614241)

      the political process requires choices... there are rarely any ideals... its a choice between the different options.

      At this point... its Hillery VS Trump... there is very little you could say against Trump that doesn't count many times over against Hillary.

      Most of the negatives of either candidate fall away once you see that... then it becomes a question of the positives...

      This cause big problems for Hillary because she actually doesn't have any besides being a democrat if that is a positive.

      She's not especially clever. She's not especially wise. She's not especially respected or trusted. She's not well liked. She's not good at giving speeches. She's not good at leading people. She's not good at managing things.

      There's nothing there. She's Bill Clinton's wife. That's what she's been running on from the beginning.

      It was how she got her stint in the Senate.
      It was how she got treated seriously as a presidential candidate in 2008.
      It is how she got appointed to Sec State under Obama even though Obama didn't like or trust her.

      And it is why she's basically being given the Democrat nomination. She won 6 out of 6 coin tosses and won 7 out of 7 high card draws. Consider the odds of that happening.
      (.5^13) x 100 = 0.01% chance of that happening.

      The fix is in kids. The DNC machine has chosen Hillary. She has no reason to even be there in the first place and look at her walk to her coronation.

      Against her... for some fucking reason... is Trump. And anything you can say against him is true many times over for her.

      When all is said and done... the difference is this... he's smarter than she is, he has a proven track record of making things work out in his interests without someone doing it for him, he's respected within some fields for being a savvy business person, people seem to like him, he's very good at giving speeches, he obviously can claim some skill at running companies... say whatever you like about him... he's got more going for him than hillary besides the fact that she's a democrat and he's running as a republican.

      That's pretty much the only thing you could cite as being a positive thing in her favor absent POLICY differences.

      Now if you want to say "but I want the policies she's advocating and not the ones he's advocating" sure... that's a reasonable objection. However, that's a policy objection and not anything to do with the actual people.

      The policies and the personalities should not be mixed. Say which personality you like... say which policies you like.. then vote for whomever on which ever basis you find relevant. But citing Hillary as being a better person is a very dubious sell.

      • And it is why she's basically being given the Democrat nomination. She won 6 out of 6 coin tosses and won 7 out of 7 high card draws. Consider the odds of that happening. (.5^13) x 100 = 0.01% chance of that happening.

        Well, first there was only ONE high card draw, which some conservative news sources added to the supposed 6 coin tosses to claim a 7-for-7 victory TOTAL for Clinton.

        However, even that is wrong. The 6 coin tosses thing was an erroneous early report put out by an Iowa paper. There were more coin tosses than that, and the Bernie Hillary split appears to be roughly 50/50 as you'd expect.

        I'm definitely not a Hillary supporter, and I detest the smear campaigns the Clinton campaign has got many of their fri

    • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) <> on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:45AM (#51614259) Homepage Journal

      The irony is that Trump is the problem. He was born with a silver spoon up his arse, and fails often but has enough money to keep going. He thinks money means he can say and do whatever he likes without consequences, and only supports the 99% as far as he can manipulate them into enriching himself.

    • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:5, Interesting)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:54AM (#51614331) Homepage Journal

      This explains the weird phenomenon of Trump supporters who also like Bernie Sanders. These are people who are desperate for something different than business as usual to be done, but don't know what that different thing should be and don't care.

      It's easy to dismiss Trump supporters are morons who can't see he's a liar who changes his story every time it's convenient, just as it's easy to scoff at poor people who buy lottery tickets, which are the last thing anyone short of money should buy. But it's a little too easy for people who are secure and comfortable to demand people who aren't live without hope, even false hope.

      • Re:The Angry Mob (Score:5, Interesting)

        by swb ( 14022 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @10:37AM (#51614621)

        This explains the weird phenomenon of Trump supporters who also like Bernie Sanders. These are people who are desperate for something different than business as usual to be done, but don't know what that different thing should be and don't care.

        I think there's a better explanation. I think the overlap in support most likely exposes the artificial, ideologically and politically driven framework imposed on American governance, as well as the belief that policies necessarily need to be ideologically consistent even when circumstances differ greatly.

        As an example, why can't you be in favor of "free trade" at a city, state or nation level yet reject it at an international level? The impact of such a policy varies greatly depending on how and where it's applied.

        I would say supporters who view both candidates somewhat favorably are rejecting the idea that they must subscribe to a set of policies approved by a unitary ideological choice. I also think they're rejecting a lot of the intellectually false rhetoric surrounding many of these policies. It's only too easy to see that one is being sold a policy in name that isn't it in practice -- how many pages does NAFTA or TPP need to be to implement actual free movement of goods, services and capital? Why does "free trade" need 30 chapters and hundreds of pages to describe, unless of course, it's anything but free trade.

        This same political doublespeak extends over all kinds of issues and it doesn't take an advanced degree to recognize when basic facts simply don't align with the narrative being used to push policies. If they chocolate ration masses less today than it did last week, how has the chocolate ration increased?

        Trump may be a phony plutocrat and Sanders may be a socialist, but if you're rejecting the establishment political narrative, these are the choices you have.

  • Trump vote (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rfengr ( 910026 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:10AM (#51614039)
    Heed this: If Sanders is the nominee, I'll vote libertarian as always. If that witch is the nominee, I'll be voting for trump. I'm not alone, by far.
    • Re:Trump vote (Score:4, Insightful)

      by KermodeBear ( 738243 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:16AM (#51614085) Homepage

      It would take an act of God for Sanders to be the (D) nominee. Clinton has a large majority of the super delegates supporting her (I wonder how much blackmail is involved), all she needs to do is more or less tie Sanders. After all, the (D) party wouldn't want the "wrong" candidate to be the nominee, yes? We can't have those silly people picking the nominee, they don't know what is best for them.

  • Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:10AM (#51614041) Journal
    I suspect that these starry-eyed optimists wouldn't be entirely pleased with Trump's cost reduction strategies during his years in real estate, which have included trying to go cheap on the pesky human resources; but they are correct that he is basically the only option on the republican side who is even interested in pretending to care about the filthy peons who aren't good enough to realize their income in capital gains rather than 'wages'.

    It's almost as though people can't be made to vote against their economic interests by promising to keep the scary gays away from school prayer forever. Crazy stuff.
  • by Harold Halloway ( 1047486 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:17AM (#51614091)

    Do these Americans seriously think Trump gives a fuppenny tuck about American workers? I have absolutely no doubt that Trump employs in his companies whomsoever is (a) cheapest and (b) causes the least trouble. If he is now trying to get elected on an 'American jobs for real Americans' ticket then that represents a level of hypocrisy in him that even I thought impossible in a human being.

  • by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:19AM (#51614101)

    The "shortage" of US citizen IT workers in America is a myth. Importation of "guest workers" through various means are simply companies on the buy AND sell side of the equation gaming the US immigration system to distort the price of labor. The same could be said in other industries such as farm labor. Adequate supply of labor exists, but the industry is chafing at paying market labor rates.

    The beneficiaries of this cozy relationship between politicians and offshore companies who broker IT consultants by the pound are the politicians taking $$$ and the brokers taking huge skims off the top of the rates paid for the guest workers. Meanwhile, both the US citizen workers and the guest workers are faced with lower wages, with the guest workers taking the brunt of the abuse. (Imagine paying half or more of your salary to some broker who's only "value" is to pay off politicians to get you a visa into another country).

    Want to start a technology company and don't want to pay the prevailing wages? Then by all means open up shop in China, Eastern Europe, Brasil, India....wherever. I'm sure those countries would be delighted.

  • think he'd have kept you from losing your Disney job (despite the fact that he doesn't actually give a sh** about blue collar Americans once they're done casting votes) - your job is more important that the clear indications that he's a misogynistic racist hot head liar who has bankrupted FOUR TIMES.

    This country really has become all about "me." Sure, I'll give up the fourth amendment, and start traipsing on the first - just to make sure some brown skinned guy doesn't crash an airplane with me in it

    • by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:29AM (#51614173)
      If slashdotters' "all about me" attitude is any representation of the attitude in the US, America is screwed. A country has to be able to make some sacrifices and work together. A nation of people who just look out for themselves is a nation that is headed for civil war.
      • If slashdotters' "all about me" attitude is any representation of the attitude in the US, America is screwed.

        Any political discussion always brings a mass of Randian libertarians out of the woodwork, they don't post in any other discussions but they show up for these. It's almost like someone brings them in on a bus.

    • I'll let the 1% go first in BEING AMERICANS who need to EARN IT, instead of finding tax dodges and subverting democracy with their money. Let them be patriotic for a while.

  • When it comes to the average Joe, America is quickly becoming a vast empty container for other nations values.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:52AM (#51614307)

    should be evidence enough that the employer is lying when they say they can't fill a position with an american and they should lose ***ALL*** of their h1bs, those here should be sent back home - not allowed to find a different employer to sponsor them, AND the employer should be prohibited from applying for more for at least five years.

  • by Diss Champ ( 934796 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @10:11AM (#51614463)

    Each party is stuck with a toxic candidate in part due to its own rules:

    On the Republican side, they really want a way to get rid of Trump, but they chose to select most of their delegates by a reasonably democratic process.

    On the Democrat side, they are stuck with Hillary because they decided to create enough superdelegates that they could override the democratic process.

    If the parties had switched nominee selection processess, other than not being Trump I'm not sure who they would have picked, but for the Democrats we'd probably be seeing Sanders- or a lot of folks who didn't enter the race because of the superdelegates would have been there to consider.

    Anyway, the whole thing leaves me looking at the third party candidates to decide who to vote for instead of Kang and Kodos

  • by DNS-and-BIND ( 461968 ) on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:15AM (#51614913) Homepage
    The real reason to vote for Trump? The political establishment is, for the first time in decades, genuinely frightened. They didn't really mind Bush because he was one of their own. Bush was in Skull and Bones at Yale. You think good ol' boys from Texas get into Yale, much less Skull and Bones? No the Bushes were Yankee bluebloods. But Trump? Nope. He can't be counted on to do the right thing for the establishment and they are really scared for the first time in their lives. You have to understand, these people have been wrongdoing for decades and now they have the very real consequence of going to prison for their crimes. They are going to scream and fight like a 3 year old who has just had her marshmallow taken away. All the doomsayers? LOL like the USA isn't strong enough to withstand a populist one termer. We just had 8 years of a Marxist racist divider who despises the American people, and we're still here. 16 if you include Bu$hitler. The hysteria emanating from the corridors of power is like what happened when Chavez and Evo Morales were in real danger of being elected. And guess what: things turned out fine for the people of those nations. Less well for their elites, many of whom are now in prison for their crimes.

White dwarf seeks red giant for binary relationship.