Sweden's Cash-Free Future Looms -- and Not Everyone Is Happy About It 440
HughPickens.com writes: Liz Alderman writes in the NYT that bills and coins now represent just 2 percent of Sweden's economy, compared with 7.7 percent in the United States and 10 percent in the euro area and this year only about 20 percent of all consumer payments in Sweden have been made in cash, compared with an average of 75 percent in the rest of the world. "Sweden has always been at the forefront of technology, so it's easy to embrace this," said Jacob de Geer, a founder of iZettle, which makes a mobile-powered card reader. In Sweden parishioners text tithes to their churches, homeless street vendors carry mobile credit-card readers, and even the Abba Museum, despite being a shrine to the 1970s pop group that wrote "Money, Money, Money," considers cash so last-century that it does not accept bills and coins. "We don't want to be behind the times by taking cash while cash is dying out," says Bjorn Ulvaeus, a former Abba member who has leveraged the band's legacy into a sprawling business empire, including the museum.
But not everyone is pleased with the process. Remember, Sweden is the place where, if you use too much cash, banks call the police because they think you might be a terrorist or a criminal. Swedish banks have started removing cash ATMs from rural areas, annoying old people and farmers. Credit Suisse says the rule of thumb in Scandinavia is: "If you have to pay in cash, something is wrong." Sweden's embrace of electronic payments has alarmed consumer organizations and critics who warn of a rising threat to privacy and increased vulnerability to sophisticated Internet crimes. Last year, the number of electronic fraud cases surged to 140,000, more than double the amount a decade ago, according to Sweden's Ministry of Justice. Older adults and refugees in Sweden who use cash may be marginalized, critics say, and young people who use apps to pay for everything or take out loans via their mobile phones risk falling into debt. "It might be trendy," says Bjorn Eriksson, a former director of the Swedish police force and former president of Interpol. "But there are all sorts of risks when a society starts to go cashless."
But not everyone is pleased with the process. Remember, Sweden is the place where, if you use too much cash, banks call the police because they think you might be a terrorist or a criminal. Swedish banks have started removing cash ATMs from rural areas, annoying old people and farmers. Credit Suisse says the rule of thumb in Scandinavia is: "If you have to pay in cash, something is wrong." Sweden's embrace of electronic payments has alarmed consumer organizations and critics who warn of a rising threat to privacy and increased vulnerability to sophisticated Internet crimes. Last year, the number of electronic fraud cases surged to 140,000, more than double the amount a decade ago, according to Sweden's Ministry of Justice. Older adults and refugees in Sweden who use cash may be marginalized, critics say, and young people who use apps to pay for everything or take out loans via their mobile phones risk falling into debt. "It might be trendy," says Bjorn Eriksson, a former director of the Swedish police force and former president of Interpol. "But there are all sorts of risks when a society starts to go cashless."
If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't know why they're doing this, you haven't been paying attention.
This is how the government manages to track and control every aspect of your life, and I do mean every.
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:5, Informative)
you left out the best part.
track and control and TAX every aspect. Just like the mafia, they want a piece of all the action
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:5, Insightful)
you left out the best part.
track and control and TAX every aspect. Just like the mafia, they want a piece of all the action
Of course, that's just part of it.
Seriously, control ALL transactions and you pretty much have a lock on everything.
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you left out the best part.
track and control and TAX every aspect. Just like the mafia, they want a piece of all the action
Precisely this!
No cash means that every transaction can be taxed.
Your grandma gives you $10.00 for your birthday? Gift Tax.
You want to pitch in with some friends for pizza, so you all contribute $10.00 and place an order? Transaction tax before the sales tax.
LK
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It's not the government that has been pushing the cash free economy, it's the banks. who feel it is their right to take a cut of every transaction that is done, and then to sell the logs of what you bought to the marketers.
I don't mind paying taxes in general but I really do hate paying corporations for services that I don't want or need. At least with government, at least in democracies, we have some control while the goal of corporations is to give no choice or at best a choice between Coke or Pepsi, with
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If they had any interest in taxing everything, why would gifts not be taxable already?
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:5, Interesting)
You people are just such shallow thinkers, tracking is not the problem, the real problem is making you a non-person, you can not buy anything, you can not enter anywhere, you can not ride anything, you cease to be a digital human being and they don't even need to lock you up. Just kill you like an animal when you finally lose it after being hounded and harassed 24/7 and blame you for it. They can not only hold you digitally hostage but your entire family. Extreme digital extortion, obey or be digitally destroyed. The true difference between freedom and slavery, either you need to continually ask permission to do anything or you can maturely decide for yourself. Every time you spend money with a card, you are not spending what you own, you are asking permission to buy something, think about that!!!
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Taxes are simply needed because some form of government is needed and governments need money.
Believe it or not, I'm fine with paying taxes. I know the government (and therefore the country) doesn't run on magic pixie dust or unicorn farts.
But if every transaction is trackable, say goodbye to any semblance of freedom or anonymity other than what they choose to give you.
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The fascist overreach lasts as long as it's tolerated.
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Oh, come on. You just have alternate, "illegal" means for conducting transactions.
Like what?
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First alternative that comes to mind is bartering. But I suppose there's also Bitcoin and related services.
All of which would eventually be made illegal via expedient justifications.
(We need to be able to contact purchasers of goods in cases of urgent product recalls, etc)
Sadly, I think if our society went cashless it would become more dystopic rather than a utopic.
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All of which would eventually be made illegal via expedient justifications.
Someone mentioned that if you use too much cash, banks in Sweden will already report you to the government as a likely criminal. So that seems moderately likely.
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:4, Insightful)
Here comes the barter economy. Already starting to take off.
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:4, Interesting)
Here comes the barter economy. Already starting to take off.
Sadly, there are some pretty severe limitations in a barter economy. For small, local stuff it can be made to function, but anything larger and it simply becomes unworkable. It just doesn't scale well.
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Also, it makes it that much easier for the authorities to nail you if / when they choose to come after you.
(Assuming one hasn't maintained all the paperwork.)
e.g. for those subject to Australian tax law
From:
Bartering and barter exchanges [ato.gov.au]
Australia
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Much harder to track than debit transactions. The government in the US is going crazy at the amount of underground economy going on. So many people work cash side jobs to make ends meet. Making 20 dollars an hour in cash is like making 35 dollars at a company job.
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:4, Funny)
I wonder how many grams of coke for a new Mustang GT?
Re:If you don't know why they're doing this... (Score:5, Informative)
Nobody is paying that much for a gram of coke. Fairly unstomped powder in FL is 80/g but less if you buy a ball. You *might* pay that in NYC but only if you're afraid of black people. Standard price in Buffalo was 100/g & 300/ball about a month ago. Even in Maine, you're paying 300/ball. Less if you're buying bulk.
Those numbers are full of shit. Oh, a ball is an 8-ball. It is 3.5 grams. You can probably get rock down here in FL for 60/g and I'm up in the panhandle.
Err... Umm... Yeah, I got that information for a friend.
Other than that, carry on.
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This is it, in a nutshell. The future is largely dystopian. People, on the whole, are completely inure to the issues of governmental trespass in their lives, and thus it is unlikely to be stopped before it is an everyday nuisance (and threat) in the lives of those who are not. They trust the government because they don't seem to understand that the government is a faceless bully made up of many corrupt and self-serving individuals. The cream sinks to the bottom in government.
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"why they're doing this"
This menacing "they" is not taking any particular action in this scenario.
If a government *actually* wanted to force all transactions to be cashless, they would stop printing cash.
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If a government *actually* wanted to force all transactions to be cashless, they would stop printing cash.
I don't know if they will, but they certainly could.
I mean, they're the ones printing it, but nothing says they have to keep printing it, or even honor the bills past a certain date.
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Also; negative interest rate.
When they eventually pass this negative interest on to the customer, keeping cash will be more profitable than putting it in a bank account.
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Stores prefer less cash, because handling cash is expensive. Money cost money. It also increases risk from robbery and so on. This year an app called 'Swish' has been the new thing. You can send money directly from your mobile to someone else Swish app. Going directly from bank account to another.. all you need is their number. No fees. Many street vendors are using it, and it makes it super easy to give money to someone.
Another consequence is that night clubs
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Stores prefer less cash, because handling cash is expensive. Money cost money.
Credit cards cost money too - I was in a small shop (in the UK) just before Xmas and overheard the owner complaining to a credit card customer that they had to pay a 2% fee for every transaction. She was relieved when I paid cash.
Moreover my wife is a bookeeper for a small business selling plastic containers mostly to industry. They looked into installing the facility for credit cards and the cost was shocking. Most of their customers are account customers and they prefer to turn away those others th
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If you don't know why they're doing this, you haven't been paying attention.
This is how the government manages to track and control every aspect of your life, and I do mean every.
The government??? What does the government have to do with what private shops and private individuals do?
The shops and banks are encouraging it because it means they can track every aspect of your life and hope to monetize you better that way, people are doing it because it is convininient.
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Refusing to accept cash? (Score:4, Interesting)
I thought all countries (in the developed world, at the very least) had laws stating in one wording or another that it is illegal for a business to refuse payment in the country's official currency?
Debts, public and private (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the United States, accepting legal tender is mandatory only for repayment of "DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE". To avoid this, a shop can require prepayment for all goods and services so that the customer never incurs debt.
Re:Debts, public and private (Score:4, Insightful)
Will there always be an acceptable competitor? (Score:2)
there is no law of any kind that requires me to do business with any specific store of business, either
Specific business? No. Specific kind of business? Yes. Zoning laws require you to buy food rather than growing it. Indecency laws require you to buy clothing. Sit/lie laws require you to buy or rent housing rather than sleeping on public property. And shared responsibility laws require you to buy health insurance or face drastic tax hikes.
If the grocery store I habituate decided tomorrow to start taking plastic only, I'd find somewhere else to shop on principle alone.
So what happens once all grocery stores within walking distance go cashless?
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there is no law of any kind that requires me to do business with any specific store of business, either
Specific business? No. Specific kind of business? Yes. Zoning laws require you to buy food rather than growing it. Indecency laws require you to buy clothing. Sit/lie laws require you to buy or rent housing rather than sleeping on public property. And shared responsibility laws require you to buy health insurance or face drastic tax hikes.
If the grocery store I habituate decided tomorrow to start taking plastic only, I'd find somewhere else to shop on principle alone.
So what happens once all grocery stores within walking distance go cashless?
Not to mention registering cars, getting licenses, and other state and local government activities which often no longer accept cash.
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Prepaid transactions create no debt (Score:2)
A merchant, such as the government, can structure transactions to avoid the creation of debt in the first place. Acceptable forms of payment for a prepaid transaction are covered under invitation to treat law rather than legal tender law.
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there is no law of any kind that requires me to do business with any specific store of business, either
Zoning laws require you to buy food rather than growing it.
Want to grow your own food? Move to a zone without laws prohibiting it.
Trespass laws require you to purchase real estate on which to do so.
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Yes yes of course the market will fix all problems. Until you're in a sufficiently small minority to be ignored - What happens when all grocery stores stop accepting cash? And there're not enough hold-outs like you to support an alternative? What then, starve? If you dislike a trend then don't just move your money - be loud. Because shifting your business to a competitor might not be enough.
Re:Debts, public and private (Score:4, Insightful)
What happens when some hack group decides to target the phones and network infrastructure and your card or apple pay doesn't work to purchase your gasoline or groceries or diapers or whatever? What happens when same group transfers all your money from your accounts into some unclaimed fund or encrypts the banks computers and holds your accounts hostage and you have to wait 2 weeks until it gets sorted out?
There are downsides to everything. If cash was still around, an ATM could work from a cached balance and distribute some money, friends could loan others some money until things come back up.
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Let me guess: your employer deducts health insurance from your paycheck before it lands in your bank, or you are exempt from shared responsibility because you make less than four-thirds of the poverty wage in a state that has not expanded Medicaid.
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Not sure. I'm from the US and I think this is a misinterpretation of the phrase on our bills, "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." Only debts are covered, not all transactions. That phrase doesn't obligate anyone to become a lender, or to allow you to become indebted to them. It doesn't mean they have to sell you anything.
Also it is legal in the US for businesses to refuse to accept particular types of currency, such as refusing pennies or large bills.
(Individual states may hav
from the treasury itself (Score:3)
https://www.treasury.gov/resou... [treasury.gov]
"This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. "
this is to preven
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What if the official currency is digital-only currency?
When they outlaw cash... (Score:2)
But I'm not sure what they will spend it on.
Re: When they outlaw cash... (Score:2)
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I'll always accept gold for anything I sell or as payment for any service. A card? Not fucking likely. I'd bet gold or something like bitcoin replaces cash. There will always be a place for some real type of currency.
Payments by minors (Score:3)
In that case, will it be a crime to buy something before becoming an adult? I was under the impression that only an adult could hold a bank account in his own name; anyone younger than 18 (or thereabouts depending on jurisdiction) has to make do with cash.
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You can't pay for candy with a savings account.
This kind of nonsense does make minors non-entities. A nice little twist that the "adults" in question really don't give a f*ck about.
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Here in the USA, an account such that "You cannot withdraw more than you actually have on it" is called a "demand deposit account" or a "checking account", and the bank card used to withdraw what you have on it is called a "debit card". It is distinct from a "credit card", which represents a loan from the bank, but debit cards can be used to make purchases virtually anywhere that takes credit cards because each one carries a MasterCard or Visa logo.
I was under the impression a minor had to get a parent or o
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Where do you live? Here in Sweden I had a bank account in my own name when I was ten. Not a debit card though, that was later.
In the UK I was buying sweets from shops when I was six.
i don't want a fucking on-going relationship (Score:5, Insightful)
i just want to buy stuff - anonymously, without the shop-keeper knowing my name and other personal details just because i bought a fucking coffee or a hamburger or something.
lack of privacy and anonymity are the main reasons i dislike online shopping and use it only very rarely - delivery of the purchased goods requires that i give the vendor my personal details which they then immediately assume they are entitled to store in a database, use to spam me, and sell, trade, or give to third-parties.
even when they have a checkbox option saying "don't spam me" or similar, some arsehole in their marketing department will take it upon themselves to decide that i didn't really mean that, or make some exception for their super-important spam (spammers always say "my spam isn't spam") or their database will frequently have that field "accidentally" cleared.
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Amazing how hard they're going after Bitcoin-like entities. Or not really all that amazing.
Keep in mind they are tracking the serial numbers on the paper bills from the ATMs. If you really want anonymity, pay with metal coins - no serial numbers.
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The mythical "they" isn't going after Bitcoin because it's Bitcoin. They are going after entities who have happened to have been doing transactions in Bitcoin because those entities thing Bitcoin has magical law-repellent properties, and the mythical "they" haven't really been going after them disproportionately.
Re:i don't want a fucking on-going relationship (Score:5, Informative)
But if you pay with a credit card in Sweden* the merchant will not get your name, or any other personal information. All he will get is a "Transaction accepted" from the credit card company, and maybe the part of your credit card number which is also printed on your credit card receipts.
*Ok, I only know how it works in Denmark, but I can't imagine it being different in sweden.
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But if you pay with a credit card in [northern Europe,] the merchant will not get your name, or any other personal information. All he will get is [...] the part of your credit card number which is also printed on your credit card receipts.
Here in the USA, receipts from card-operated gasoline pumps often include the cardholder's name.
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Not your point, but the local Starbucks or Hungry Jack has minimally some personal interest in not poisoning a member of the local community. I'd actually prefer someone I had face-to-face contact with knowing more about me, than just relying on the good graces of some behemoth like Amazon, Facebook, Apple, etc., not to leak/sell my information to other leviathans who might not have my best interests in mind. But *they* don't take cash.
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even when they have a checkbox option saying "don't spam me" or similar, some arsehole in their marketing department will take it upon themselves to decide that i didn't really mean that
Use a disposable email address, like from http://spamdecoy.net/ [spamdecoy.net]
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In australia, there's presumed consent if there's an existing business relationship (e.g. you bought something) unless you opt out.
Which is completely fucked up, especially since there's little or no observable enforcement of opt-out rules.
my "solution" is to just buy very little from online shops. this sucks, because apart from the anonymity and privacy issue, online shopping is very convenient. I'd shop online a lot more often if there was a ruthlessly enforced legally required "don't fucking spam me fo
alt.swedish.cash.bork.bork.bork (Score:5, Interesting)
There are kids around here who think nothing of hauling out a Plastic Card to buy a 50 cent Candy bar.
Typically, a Cashless Society has a lot of hidden overhead, and those who promote the concept the most tend to benefit from that overhead.
It's not a Conspiracy Against Freedom, it's the Triumph Of the Hidden Middlemen.
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Costs of cash transaction vs. cashless transactions are discussed here: http://www.riksbank.se/Documen... [riksbank.se]
tl;dr version: cash isn't free
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True, but:
Typically, a Cashless Society has a lot of hidden overhead,
Cash has quite a bit of overhead by itself. Aside from the whole forgery problem, both coins and bills need refreshment cycles, they need to be manufactured, for small coins quite often at a higher cost than the face value.
Then there is the overhead of handling cash, which is quite considerable.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of cash, but as far as overhead is concerned, I'm not sure it is superior to electronic payment.
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Typically, a cash society has a lot of hidden overheads......... All of this costs money, and is much cheaper and mostly eliminated if you use electronic transactions.
It is a truism to say that eliminating cash eliminates the costs of dealing with cash. I think most of us can agree that both methods (cash and plastic) cost money. Which costs most depends on the nature of the business. What is clear is that the credit card companies and banks charge far too much commission on transactions - 2% I am told on top of standing charges for equipment. 2% the cost of a TV or car for about a microsecond of computer time?
There is clearly so much easy profit in plastic cards
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What about the fees for a EFT? lot's of small shop (Score:2)
What about the fees for a EFT? lot's of small shops don't like cards due to the fees also cash tips are big (at least over there they don't have that tipped min wage BS)
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Open book for thee, privacy for we (Score:5, Interesting)
A cash-free society means the banks, and any business or government or person with juice, knows what everyone is doing. If you have no problem with this, build your next house with glass walls, and put a streaming camera and mic on your person.
All this, contrast to corporations and governments. Corporations aren't people, so you can't really spy on those. Corporations are now freeer, and now don't even have to declare a nationality. Their banking is private, if they desire. Derivative markets are untrackable and untaxed. They don't pay taxes. Yet they demand we give it all up to them, because ???? we're idiots.
Governments? The US, UK, Australia and NZ are frothing at the mouth to destroy any whistleblowers who rat them out. Assange is STILL in jail, no charges other than trying to get away from retribution. Wikileaks supporters have problems flying in airplanes and crossing borders. And the governments have no problem spying on everyone else and demanding that right. And the Cayman Islands secret banking system is left alone, because the CIA, the mob, and corporations like their privacy.
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Not really. The only thing the bank know, is where I spent my money. The bank don't know what I bought.
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Depends on what form of payment and the agreement the shop has with the bank. For credit card purchases in the US, companies can sometimes get a lower fee if they send along the line items on the receipt being paid for. To accept most corporate cards, a shop is required to send a lot of information about the transaction to the bank.
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The only thing the bank know, is where I spent my money. The bank don't know what I bought.
You bought something at Anne Summers (sex accessories chain in the UK), say. Let's leave what it was exactly to their imagination.
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I think it's incredibly myopic to think any privacy already exists for your payments.
Consider:
1) Unless you are working illegally your bank already processes your paycheck.
2) Your employer is already providing the government with both a) bits of your paycheck (called income tax) and b) a record of your earnings
3) Once the money hits your bank account, your bank already knows where it goes. If you withdraw cash, they may even know the serial numbers (and can track to some extent from that). ATMs certain
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I think it's incredibly myopic to think any privacy already exists for your payments.
3) Once the money hits your bank account, your bank already knows where it goes. If you withdraw cash, they may even know the serial numbers (and can track to some extent from that).
Yes, I'm sure that Miss Whiplash phones the bank with the serial numbers of my payment as soon as I leave her flat each time.
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I'm not sure who "Miss Whiplash" is, but if you're talking about your landlord, she almost certainly deposits the money in her own bank account.
Even if she spends it, the second she goes to a store to break the bill, it goes to the bank.
Your cash is only ever a transaction or two away from being tracked. Because, let's face it, most merchants deposit their cash so unless you pay all in singles (which will then be given out as change) your bills will get deposited.
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Corporations are made up of people, and you can spy on the individual people.
Electricity (Score:2)
... is a bitch.
I wonder what kind of measures the Sweden have against losing it. And if I'm not mistaken most payments go through the Internet and of course the Internet is supposed to be 100% reliable ... oh, wait.
P.S. George Orwell wasn't a science fiction writer 'cause he actually (fore)saw the future. The future where everything you do is logged and categorized.
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We had this a few years ago in the Netherlands, where a major bank could not accept digital payments or handle ATM machines for a few days.
If I didn't have the habit of keeping enough cash money in my wallet at all times, I would have been unable to buy food for those days.
Is this what Sweden wants to risk?
Have they never heard of the word "backup"?
Yes, and? (Score:5, Interesting)
Surely not? (Score:5, Funny)
'"Sweden has always been at the forefront of technology, so it's easy to embrace this," said Jacob de Geer, a founder of iZettle, which makes a mobile-powered card reader'.
In other news, sharks were in favour of sea bathing.
What about tourism? (Score:4, Insightful)
If the rest of the world has 75% of transactions being paid in cash ( seems legit, if maybe even a tad low ) how will people that come to Sweden for tourism pay for anything?
Seems like a great way to insulate yourself from the rest of the world and have your economy grow stagnant to me...
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When I use my UK debit card overseas I get stung for a small fee for each transaction (I seem to recall the fee be one pound - about 1.5 dollars - so actually it is not that small). Normally this is not a big problem. I get myself some Euros and then I only need the card for a few big costs like hotel bills. If I go to Swe
I always travel with cash (Score:3)
Sometimes, you need it for something simple, like when the mobile card reader in the cab doesn't work (I was with my boss who puts everything on cards, so I had to bail him out with my cash, and expense it later.)
I also don't relish the idea of running my card for every meal - increasing the odds of some skimmer screwing the card up and getting a fraud alert put on it, just when I need it most. (I know, a lot of places, especially in Europe, bring there card re
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That's assuming a foreign credit card will even work in your country. That's a pretty retarded assumption.
That's why saavy travelers carry some cash just in case.
From a pure "IT geek technology perspective", every boffin here should be going "but where's the backup plan?". This is not granny's knitting forum. The people here really should know better.
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What? Foreign master cards works and can be used 98% of the places which takes credit card. (I know exactly 1 local shop which don't take master cord).
Re:What about tourism? (Score:4, Informative)
Plenty do.
I didn't take a credit card to Japan when I went there for a few months earlier this year; outside of large metropolitan areas NO ONE takes credit cards, much less debit cards. The only exception you can find to this is larger branches of banks with ATM type machines, and even then it is a crap-shoot whether it will work with your particular bank / card.
I'm sure there are plenty of other countries like this as well, most of east Asia is, in a large part, a cash only society.
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On the other hand - in Japan you can leave your wallet on the table with cash worth thousands of dollars while you visit the toilet and it's still there when you come back.
A Banker's wet dream (Score:4, Interesting)
They get a slice of the transaction when you pay via plastic (the trader pays 1-3%). They get a bit when you pay in cash since the retailer will have to pay the bank a bit (cash handling charge) when they pay in at the end of the day. However bankers get nothing on many payments: the man who mows the lawn, the baby sitter, the window cleaner, ... many of these will spend what they earn as cash - so several transactions that the banks do not get the chance to bacon slice.
OK: this might not be a large part of the economy, but all those free transactions must be annoying them!
No fees on cash (Score:2)
Bjorn Also Said (Score:5, Interesting)
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an explanation by Bjorn who mentioned his son's apartment being robbed and how the burglars made away with some cash. So... "ban all cash" because my kid left some in his apartment and it got burgled.
Who TF is this idiot Bjorn?
I would have thought that a burglar breaking into a flat would cause far more cost in damage (new front door - $1000?) than any cash that a sane person would leave lying around. That was certainly the case with my car being broken into - new door: $500, value stolen from inside: $4.
Great except for hidden fees (Score:2)
I like the idea of this. If we can get our mobile payments systemsup to snuff this would make things a lot easier. My issue is the hidden costs involved with it. One of the reasons I use cash is because I know it costs small businesses money if I use my credit card. I would rather get cash and pay that way for local shops than cost them the percentage they pay to the credit card company even though I may get a few cents back. The only way I could get behind this totally would be for there to be some way to
Natural result of Central Banks, which... (Score:2, Insightful)
the founders of the US explicitly rejected, but their great-grandchildren stupidly have adopted. Central Banks provide paper money in place of something of real inherent value like gold or silver, and in doing so provide a means of manipulating and robbing the public by inflating or deflating the value of that paper money by printing more of it or taking some of it out of circulation. Going cashless, where the individual no longer has ANY physical thing but rather just some digits stored in a computer will
Poorly written again. (Score:2)
Cashless in Canada (Score:2)
Canada has gone for debit cards [interac.ca] in a big way. I hardly ever pay cash for anything.
Our local public transit system is rolling out a smartcard [compasscard.ca] fare system. On my way to work maybe one person a day pays their fare in cash. Yes, TransLink can track where I ride the bus. And if they ever misuse that information I'll ditch my current Compass card and buy an unregistered anonymous one.
...laura
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Compromise. Limit cash to transactions under say $50
Add a couple of zeros and you might have something here.
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That's how it is already in Sweden. You can't pay anything above c:a $1.500 with cash. Not without first proving that the money aren't coming from Organized Crime.
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Negative rates? You gotta be kidding? Where?
Again. Damn glad there's an ocean between us.
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And as a side note, if I just want to purchase something directly from you, say a cord of firewood that fell in a storm in your backyard, do you then need to have a card reader and a deal with a credit card company, and do they get a cut of our private transaction?
To answer your question : Yes.
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