Gaza's Only Power Plant Knocked Offline 868
necro81 (917438) writes "Gaza's only power plant (see this profile at IEEE Spectrum — duct tape and bailing wire not included) has been knocked offline following an Israeli strike. Reports vary, but it appears that Israeli tank shells caused a fuel bunker at the plant to explode. Gaza, already short on electricity despite imports from Israel and Egpyt, now faces widening blackouts."
why do liberals hate jews so much? (Score:0, Interesting)
I mean more than the average slashdotter?
Note: modding this down makes as much sense as negotiating with somone who denies your right to life.
Re:Radicalization (Score:3, Interesting)
Hamas started it and reuses to agree to any proposed cease fire. Israel isn't the group calling for the extermination, Hamas is. Israel has also offered legitimacy to the Palestinian government in exchange for a cease fire and removing the language in the charter to kill all jews.
But yeah, go ahead and blame Israel.
Blah, blah, blah. These two will not stop until one or the other is eliminated from the face of the earth.
Both sides spout off the terrible things the other side is doing to them. And have no intention of ever stopping. My guess is this came down to someone stole someone's goats thousands of years ago, and it's been Hatfield and McCoys - Middle Eastern division - ever since
Because any time it looks like some calm, one or the other side starts screwing with the other.
Neither side has any intention of stopping. - ever. The biggest mistake is that both sides end up dragging others into their "neighbors who can't get along" war
So spare me the atrocity whinefest from both sides. It's awful, and it's sad, and its horrifying. But you all are doing this because this is what you want to do. If both sides didn't want to do this, they'd have stopped doing it - a long long time ago.. Peace is not an option here.
This has been going on from biblical times, and will go on as long as humans exist. Nothing can be done about it. Neither side wants that. For whatever insane reason, both sides are getting something they want from the situation.
Que the "yeah but" arguments from both sides.
Re:Radicalization (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact, aren't there Muslims in the Knesset?
Show me another country in the region that has a single Jew or Christian in office.
Like So Many of Humanity's Woes (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Radicalization (Score:1, Interesting)
So the USA isn't democratic, because we lack same-sex marriage everywhere, American Indians are treated extremely poorly, religions give people varying rights (e.g. only members of the Native American Church can legally consume peyote)? And nowhere was a democracy before women had the right to vote?
"Democracy" isn't the description you're looking for. Liberal democracy [wikipedia.org] is.
Re:sigh. bailing wire? (Score:4, Interesting)
If it's oiled wire, stored in oiled paper, it's actually meant for concrete work with re-bar, but is actually used most often to string low-charge electric fences. It is commonly used with horses in conjunction with white, vinyl warning fence. You get anywhere from 50-200 feet per spool.
Baling wire is substantially thicker, un-oiled, and comes in much larger spools; 500-1000 feet per spool.
The spools in oil paper are meant to be strung by hand and not intended to be used for tying anything long-term; hence the lighter gauge. In fact, it's meant to hold re-bar together long enough for the concrete to be poured, thereby securing the re-bar and negating the need for the wire. Baling wire is intended to be strung by machine, and exists mainly to tie things together for seasons (and hold together the entire Midwest's infrastructure). Square bales that use baling wire must be stored out of the elements, so the wire being un-oiled is not an issue.
To the GP: If you use baling twine, then your machinery sucks, sell that P.O.S. Oliver and buy something made in the last fifty years. I bet you run narrow base Allis-Chalmers too, don't you?
Re:Radicalization (Score:5, Interesting)
Both strongmen considered their victims to be their citizens and subjects. In the state of rebellion, but citizens nonetheless. Bullshit propaganda much?
How are they citizens [princeton.edu]?
So? The "boundaries" have Israel on one of the sides — why aren't you claiming them to be citizens of Jordan and Egypt? At least, those two neighbors actually once occupied [umb.edu] the entire West Bank and Gaza respectively — for twenty years...
Israeli government has changed many times since the country's establishment — swinging from Left to Right and anything in between. Never once have PLO or Hamas changed their official goal of destroying Israel [fas.org].
Nothing your wrote is true — except for the obvious fact, that downmodding will not make it any less so.
Re:Radicalization (Score:3, Interesting)
If Israel weren't so hell-bent on creating more supporters for Hamas and similar organizations, your dreams of disarmament might come true.
Meanwhile, every Palestinian child that dies during these events results in more people signing up to fight the Israeli, the Americans and all other non-Arab, non-Muslim out there.
(Yes, it SERIOUSLY doesn't matter who is to blame - the last 3 weeks have done more for the recruitment efforts by Hamas et al, than anything Hamas could do on their own, no matter the validity, or lack of same, in the actions taken by Israel.)
Re:Radicalization (Score:3, Interesting)
Population per sq. KM:
Rank Country/Region Density
(Pop. per km2)
1 Singapore 7301
2 Hong Kong 6396
3 Gaza Strip 5045
4 Bahrain 646
5 Bangladesh 1034
6 Palestine 711
7 Taiwan (R.O.C) 646
8 Mauritius 631
9 South Korea 505
10 Lebanon 475
11 Rwanda 407
Its hard to find a place in the west bank that wouldn't be around something of importance, and many many people. You may as well say that Hamas shouldn't set up missiles anywhere, because invariably any blow back will guarantee human fatalities. Just submit nicely and live in your holes while your friendly neighbourhood rulers do the same.
Re:Radicalization (Score:1, Interesting)
You are full of shit. What the fuck has gotten into Slashdot? The numbers show [jewishvirtuallibrary.org] the Israelis to be the aggressors. You'd think that, having lived through a genocide, they wouldn't attempt to do the same to another people.
2008 cease-fire. Look at the number of rocket and mortar *launches*. The cease-fire was honored [wikipedia.org] by the Palestinians. Israel went over the border and killed 6 Hamas members, violating the cease-fire [wikipedia.org].
On 4 November 2008, the IDF made an incursion at least 250 meters into the Gaza Strip searching for a tunnel, claiming it was intended for the capture of Israeli soldiers and that it intended to continue with the truce, calling the raid a "pinpoint operation".[33] Hamas and, according to an allegation by Dr. Robert Pastor, one IDF source maintained that it was for defensive purposes.[34] As six Hamas fighters were killed,[4][35] Hamas stated that the attack was a "massive breach of the truce".[36]
This year, the Israeli president announces [timesofisrael.com] that they can never relinquish control of the West Bank. Meaning they will not accept a sovereign Palestinian state.
"I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan."
Just a week ago, the UN called out Israel [cbsnews.com] for using Palestinian children as a human shield, torturing them, putting them in solitary confinement, and threatening sexual abuse. Their foreign minister said [haaretz.com], "Israel must go all the way."
What the fuck are you people smoking? This is a genocide in motion. The US government wholeheartedly, 100%, with NO dissent supports it [congress.gov], when only 87% [alternativenews.org] of the Israelis themselves support it. The House of Reps even called the attacks "unprovoked". I mean, seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?
For the record, I don't support either side shooting at each other, but it's not hard to see that this is some seriously fucked up shit on Israel's part. No person or group should engage in genocide and war crimes. Right now, Israel is doing 99% of the committing war crimes. That may have been different in the past, and it may change in the future, but it is NO EXCUSE.
I find it interesting (Score:3, Interesting)
I find it interesting that pretty much all posts in support of the Gazans have been moderated down, yet there seem to be an awful lot of such posts. There's nothing like censorship by the mods to ensure that all viewpoints aren't heard equally. So with the expectation of being moderated down...
Israel likes to claim they're targetting Hamas installations. Yet if that's the case, each of those installations they've targetted has only launched an average of less than two rockets at Israel, when you consider the number of rockets Israel claims have been launched vs. the number of sites they've targetted.
It seems to me rather highly unlikely that Hamas has actually got *that* many rocket launchers, considering they have to be smuggled in.
Another common thread is the "terror tunnels." Don't forget that Gaza is isolated and has to smuggle in supplies. There is no way to tell whether a tunnel was being used for smuggling goods in or attackers out, but given that there have only been *two* reports of Hamas sending attackers through the tunnels, I think it's safe to say that those tunnels were being used primarily to smuggle in goods.
Well over a 1000 Gazans have been killed, the vast majority civilians. In the meantime, only 3 Israeli civilians have been killed. As to the soldiers on both sides, I *expect* them to die -- they're in battle. I've no sympathy for dead soldiers on either side.
I don't see how anyone can take a "moderate" stance on the issue. Israel invaded Palestine. Israel destroys Gazan homes to make room for settlements in violation of the Geneva conventions. Israel targets civilian infrastructure. Israel has tanks, planes, missiles, and gun emplacements; the Gazans have some pretty-much-useless rocket launchers that don't do any damage to Israeli infrastructure.
The Gazans are walled in, have no where to escape to, and are, for the most part, just civilians trying to survive. Bleat as they will about "self defence", I don't buy the Israeli arguments for this violent and genocidal assault on the civilians of Gaza. Not one bit.
Land grab (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Radicalization (Score:4, Interesting)
Your rhetoric would carry a little more weight if there hadn't been a systematic attempt to destroy Israel since the year it was formed by the UN.
If your neighbor is constantly firing rockets into your country, targeting civilians, you might see things a little differently. If the Palestinians didn't have weapons, there would be peace. If Israel didn't have weapons, there would be no Israel. The "annexed" territory was land captured as the result of war of aggression started against Israel. In any other situation, people would recognize this, but it seems that anti-semitism is still deeply ingrained in the popular consciousness, especially on the Left.
Regardless of whether they sometimes go over the line in defending themselves, there's no denying that this situation was not started by and is not perpetuated by Israel. The "Palestinian" problem would disappear overnight if one of the many Muslim countries in the area would allow them to relocate. Israel didn't create itself. It was created by the UN, one of the very few useful things the UN ever did, and has fought several wars initiated by neighbors to defend its territory. But no one ever seems to care that the country is surrounded by a large number of people who are dedicated to its annihilation and the world seems to put people with this intent on the same moral level as a people who are simply trying to maintain their security. It's kind of hard to negotiate in good faith with people whose charter declares that their goal is to drive you into the sea.
The real "Palestinian" problem is that the Palestinians are pawns in a propaganda war against the Jewish people, and the world has been falling for this transparent trick for 70 years.
Don't let the facts get in your way (Score:4, Interesting)
Hamas is intentionally targeting civilians. It has publicly said so and (more importantly) done so for many decades now. They kidnap and murder Israeli civilians. They call for Israel's destruction without room for negotiation. There are plenty of video evidence proving this and on the other hand proving that Israel has aborted important military targets because of the presence of civilians. Hamas has released numerous videos praising their people for acting as human shields. So don't take our word for it. Take *their* word for it.
Your post simply shows how often international NGOs depend witnesses that later turn out to be Hamas members. NGOs have neither the time, funding or expertise to witness these events first-hand so they rely on Hamas members instead. When a rocket lands on a school and witnesses say it came from Israel, they don't have the necessary expertise to actually reach that conclusion. Hamas' own rockets have landed *inside* Gaza hundreds of times in the past two weeks. Do you honestly think none of these caused Gazan civilian deaths? And yet, the media hasn't reported once of such an event. Funny that, eh?