ZunZuneo: USAID Funded 'Cuban Twitter' To Undermine Communist Regime 173
barlevg (2111272) writes "In a country where the government severely limits access to the world wide web, ZunZeneo, an anonymous SMS-based social network, drew more than 40,000 Cuban users at its peak, the Associated Press reports. On it, people shared news and opinions about music and culture. But what none of its subscribers knew was that the project was secretly funded by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), though a series of shell corporations and foreign bank accounts, and that its stated goal was 'renegotiate the balance of power between the state and society' in the Communist stronghold, hopefully leading to a 'Cuban Spring.'"
Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:5, Insightful)
How terrible the US government is, using the concepts of a free exchange of ideas to overthrow another regime!
Well, ok, to be fair in the US, most of those free ideas are scams, but it's still slightly better than bombs and poisoned cigars.
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Mod up parent, please.
Re:Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:4, Insightful)
They hate us for our freedom. Underhanded manipulation of their local political system for our own agenda has nothing to do with it.
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Not to argue, but it's not just our agenda. Freedom is the agenda of mankind.
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Freedom to subvert using tax monies gained with no regulatory oversight within a foreign policy framework dictated by corporate interests?
Sign me up!
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Yeah, sure. And so was Stalin... And to gain that "freedom", the opposition had to be executed or incarcerated — and no amount of romantic movie-watching can change this fact. "To ensure, everyone is good, let's kill all the bad."
Your attempt to distinguish between Che Guevara and Castro is noted — and discarded. There is no practical difference important to an
Re:Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:4, Insightful)
How terrible the US government is, using the concepts of a free exchange of ideas to overthrow another regime!
I'm sure the Occupy movement would call them out on this hypocrisy.
Re:Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:4, Insightful)
How terrible the US government is, using the concepts of a free exchange of ideas to overthrow another regime!
I'm sure the Occupy movement would call them out on this hypocrisy.
Why? Occupy got it's message out.
Re:Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Perish the thought.
Occupy Leaders Apparently Involved in Bridge Bomb Plot, Suspects Named [breitbart.com]
‘Occupy Wall Street’ Doc Accused Of Stockpiling Bomb-Making Materials, Weapons [cbslocal.com]
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Obviously we can't have the idea of the fringe Left engaging in political violence [zombietime.com] floating in polite company. After all, what would that do to the "peace" movement [businessinsider.com]?
Bridge bombing case: Appellate court upholds the sentences of 4 terror suspects [cleveland.com]
The men had pleaded guilty in federal court in Akron to conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction and other weapons charges.
A federal jury convicted a fifth man, Joshua Stafford, of similar charges. Dowd sentenced him to 10 years in prison in October.
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How FBI Entrapment Is Inventing 'Terrorists' - and Letting Bad Guys Off the Hook [rollingstone.com]:
The guy who convinced the plotters to blow up a big bridge, led them to the arms merchant, and drove the team to the bomb site was an FBI informant. The merchant was an FBI agent. The bomb, of course, was a dud. And the arrest was part of a pattern of entrapment by federal law enforcement since September 11, 2001, not of terrorist suspects, but of young men federal agents have had to talk into embracing violence in the first place... In all these law enforcement schemes the alleged terrorists masterminds end up seeming, when the full story comes out, unable to terrorize their way out of a paper bag without law enforcement tutelage."
You forgot some labels: "Who else are we supposed to be afraid of? Certainly
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Are you seriously comparing getting onto a no-fly list with incarceration? Wow... It is just as idiotic as comparing losing one's job due to McCarthy's investigations with being sent to GULAG for 25 years... Oh, wait...
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"Free exchange of ideas"
I have never heard propaganda defined quite like that before.
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"Free exchange of ideas"
I have never heard propaganda defined quite like that before.
From the article it sounds like there was plans to possibly introduce propaganda at some point but they never
reached the threshold to do that. Basically they were just giving people a "free speech" platform.
I'm all for phase 1 and my guess is that phase 1 would probably be enough as if people who are unhappy
are given a way to secretly organize in an oppresive state then chances are they will eventually organize
themself without the need for propaganda.
I think creating ways for people all over the world to f
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There is nothing automatically wrong with propaganda. It may very well be truthful — and usually is, when the US does it.
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Not CIA? That's what I expected.
Cuba is sort of the poster child for how the US is incompetent at elaborate spy-type skulduggery. I understand Castro has an entire museum dedicated to showcasing failed plots. Including the famous "poisoned baseball".
Re:Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:5, Funny)
Not CIA? That's what I expected.
Ha, who do you think USAID is a front for?
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Kinda strange that you conflate offering a free public speech platform with "elaborate spy-type skulduggery."
Not really surprising that the real world doesn't match your expectations.
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And what about Castro's atrocities? Free pass, I guess .... at least for the crowd here.
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Given Che's bloodthirsty nature I have little doubt where most of those atrocities occurred.
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Actually, you're right. Human rights violations happen every day in a secret prison in Cuba. Prisoners are kept there indefinitely with no due process and are regularly tortured. What an atrocity!
You've probably heard about the place. It's called Guantanamo.
Re:Oh goodness me, non-military means! (Score:5, Informative)
Well, I guess on the morality scale, this is an improvement over open assassination attempts [wikipedia.org] and blowing up airliners [wikipedia.org] to discourage tourism. I guess that's "moral progress" by slimy U.S. standards.
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You want to give people the tools to overthrow their own regime? Fine.
You want to give them the tools, then clandestinely take control of those tools once they're popular to foment a favourable rebellion that suits your own interests? No.
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The problem with this becomes they are communist and with that comes the baggage of permanent revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... [wikipedia.org]
I hope this is BS (Score:2)
Because doing anything like this ultimately is counterproductive if found out.
Considering the nature of Cuban propaganda, it will use this, whether it's true or not, as another banana skin to hurl at the US foreign policy.
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What makes you think that Cuba has propaganda?
Probably the fact that every country has propaganda? The US has Voice of America; other states have semi-official or even official government news agencies.
Re:I hope this is BS (Score:4, Informative)
If you've ever met anyone from Cuba they will tell you that the outside world is nothing like what they are told on the news. How is that not propaganda?
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And if you've ever met anyone from Cuba, they'll also tell you that Cuba is nothing like what it's portrayed to be in the U.S. news. Or just ask any European who (unlike us "free" Americans), is actually able to vacation there.
Re:I hope this is BS (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not American, and as someone who knows a few Cubans, I can tell you most of the country isn't like the tourist zones.
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Can confirm as a Canadian. I have travelled there, and there are two distinct countries in Cuba.
One that tourists are allowed to see (which extends off of places like Veradero to cover good portions of Havana and anywhere which tourists travel for experiences like river excursions and the like)
The other one contains the people of Cuba who have zero contact with foreigners, and zero access to US currency which drives the black market down there.
Neither of them is really adequately portrayed in North America
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That's the case in most of the world. The non-tourist areas are always poorer, friendlier and have much better food than the resort areas.
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Well then, maybe you'll be interested in the experiences of this American.
The Lost World, Part I [worldaffairsjournal.org]
The Lost World, Part II [worldaffairsjournal.org]
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If you've ever met anyone from America they will tell you that the outside world is nothing like what they are told on the news. How is that not propaganda?
I have met people from the U.S. Other than Fox News viewers-- most of whom, as far as I can tell, have never left the U.S.A.--many of them are reasonably well informed about the rest of the world, know people who have immigrated from other countries, and very often have travelled to other countries.
So I call BS on your post.
--on the original topic, I will say that I think that this is what the U.S.A. SHOULD be doing. Skip the CIA bullshit and the invade-other-countries bullshit and the sell-guns-to-groups-
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So, your point is that the Americans you met outside of the US have travelled to other countries?
Who would imagine?
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Depends what part of the US you are from. The Americans I talk to from red states seem to have more problems with that then the rest.
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You should search the web for pictures of the propaganda that the Cubans put up right next to the US base at Guantanamo Bay. You can see with your own eyes what their craft looks like, no need to resort to media corporations' interpretations.
USAID (Score:5, Insightful)
USAID is suppose to be an aide organization. The moment they have to start laundering money they have gone off the reservation and entered CIA territory.
There is a place for clandestine operation to work against regimes we don't like, that is why we have a foreign intelligence agency, CIA. Our government is completely out of control and way to large this is just more proof!
Not only that it completely undermines the mission of USAID to have it associated with these type of shenanigans; its supposed to be about soft power, its supposed to be about building trust. Here we have one more department with in the government demonstrating laws don't matter, not ours and certainly not any other sovereigns. Shameful...
Re:USAID (Score:4, Informative)
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As an American I am okay with that. I would not expect USAID to provide material support to groups the rest of the State Department wants to see go away.
Its one thing for USAID to give money in an overt and legal way to group some foreign regime might not like much, but tolerates within its boarders.
Its quite another for our aide organization to violating the laws for foreign countries, which at least in this case with Cuba they must have been because otherwise why the shell companies and secrecy.
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As an American I would not want aid any government agencies worrying about foreign laws against free speech, or other laws that we formally consider to be evil.
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You hit the target. It's what they're trying here (with more or less success) since the military dictatorship (1964).
Re:USAID (Score:5, Interesting)
Is the same thing here on Brazil. USAID here helps every one who wants to overthrow any government that does not comply doggedly what the U.S. told to do.
As an American, I can assure you that simply do not understand what you are talking about. While I have no idea whether any US agency cares any about government change in Brazil, I can tell you that Lula was no problem at all. The man was rational and competent and if he and the US had different ideas from time to time, at least there was some logic to what he was doing. Dilma Rousseff is a completely different story. Early on she came on with the same anti-US ranting and ravings that are quite popular in South America these days. Geez, I don't think I've ever seen anything more embarrassing from a national leader than her photo with Fidel where she looked like an aging rock groupie wanting to suck him off at the first chance she got.
Oh dear, oh dear. Yes, I have to agree here; that is horrible. Terrible. Possibly even Terrorism. Ranting and raving against the US! Having her photo taken with Fidel!! Because no US politician would ever rant or rave against neighbouring counties. Or have their photo taken with dubious world leaders.
If the US is trying to support opposition to her presidency, well, that is a fight that she started.
Certainly. If a politician says some mean things about the US, that TOTALLY justifies US meddling in that politician's country. There is lots of jurisprudence here, because it is exactly the time-honoured schoolyard argument that teachers like so much: "But teach, THEY started it!". (And in the same time-honoured schoolyard tradition, the original offence is of course microscopic compared to the retaliation.)
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Wow... Just wow... Dude, you are incredibly stupid or ridiculously naive. Think about it. Really try! I want a government that governs for my country, not for U.S. corporations. I do not want a "yes-man" like AC said. The problem is that your government disagrees.
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Last time a red crashed the Brazilian currency I got a couple of cases of good Brazilian Rum for $.99/750ml. I'm all for leftests running Brazil into the ground.
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The US does not act in a vacuum. It is not the only country with aggressive intelligence agencies looking to collect information from every one they can. And the preposterous claims that the US should not spy on it's "friends" is hilarious in the extreme. Countries don't have "friends" they only have interests which are constantly in flux. Outside of some initial indignant statements for public consumption concerning the NSA foreign intelligence programs the issue has been gradually pushed to the background
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I see absolutely no propaganda in my earlier statement. Are you actually saying only the US operates foreign intelligence programs to push for desired outcomes that could benefit its own interests? As far as a US Ministry of Truth goes the US is the only major power that places national firewalls or internet filters to restrict access to any information. People that speak of Ministries of Truth are just upset that their pet opinions might not be as popular as they would like them to be. Anyone expressing a
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Countries don't have friends, they have allies. Sometimes leaders have friends that are leaders of other nations.
Don't anthropomorphize nations, they hate that.
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Yeah, Putin and W. loved each other and even used the same brand of tooth paste. Great friends! Allies, not so much.
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USAID is suppose to be an aide organization.
Like many U.S. NGO's, it's a front. Why do you think so many countries are distrustful of U.S. aid groups?
USAID is not a NGO (Score:2)
USAID is suppose to be an aide organization.
Like many U.S. NGO's, it's a front...
NGO stands for "Non Government Organization". USAID is not a NGO.
http://www.usaid.gov/who-we-ar... [usaid.gov]
As I read the article, it seems to say that the USAID helped set up social networks in Cuba that weren't controlled by the government. That sounds like a good thing to me. I'm puzzled why any /. readers would object to this.
Re:USAID is not a NGO (Score:4, Informative)
it seems to say that the USAID helped set up social networks in Cuba that weren't controlled by the government. That sounds like a good thing to me. I'm puzzled why any /. readers would object to this.
Because the goal isn't to set up social networks, it's to start a violent coup and ultimately reinstall a U.S. puppet government in Cuba. These social networks are just a means to a slimy end.
Renegotiation [Re:USAID is not a NGO (Score:3, Interesting)
it seems to say that the USAID helped set up social networks in Cuba that weren't controlled by the government. That sounds like a good thing to me. I'm puzzled why any /. readers would object to this.
Because the goal isn't to set up social networks, it's to start a violent coup and ultimately reinstall a U.S. puppet government in Cuba. These social networks are just a means to a slimy end.
Why do I care about the purported goal-- what we should care about is what they were actually doing, which was setting up a social network independent of the Cuban government. That's a good thing.
The stated goal, in any case, was not "to start a violent coup." I don't know if the US government even knows what it wants (Cuban policy seems to nearly zero priority in the US, outside of south Florida)-- but the quote from the article was "its stated goal was 'renegotiate the balance of power between the state
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What they do, what they say [Re:Renegotiation] (Score:2)
That's why we should be more interested in what they do than what they say.
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That's why we should be more interested in what they do than what they say.
And yet, I'm sure we'll never know what they actually did here. The only one storing all those past social media missives is a US three-letter agency.
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Overcomplicated.
Simplified and shortened: 'stated goal != actual goal in most foreign affairs'
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Overcomplicated.
Simplified and shortened: 'stated goal != actual goal in most foreign affairs'
True, but I didn't want to be accused of painting with such a wide brush.
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As I read the article, it seems to say that the USAID helped set up social networks in Cuba that weren't controlled by the government. That sounds like a good thing to me. I'm puzzled why any /. readers would object to this.
Because dice sold us out to right wing propagandists, because that is where the money is in media these days.
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Color me naive, but I think I'm actually okay with an aid organization providing services that most of the rest of the world enjoy to people trapped within a country that rules over them as a dictatorship. That sounds a lot like aid to me, and if they need to engage in shenanigans to get that aid to the people, I'm okay with that too. After all, when a government stands in the way of its people receiving basic services, you have to do stuff like that. And if they're hoping that the people will use that serv
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Color me naive, but [...] I really don't have a problem with this unless they were actively using it to try and incite a Cuban Spring, rather than merely passively providing it and letting things develop on their own.
There is a wide range of gray between active and passive here. I'm willing to bet they were in an area that would make you uncomfortable.
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Quite likely, and mere moments after I submitted the comment I realized that I had completely failed to consider or address that topic.
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There is a wide range of gray between active and passive here. I'm willing to bet they were in an area that would make you uncomfortable.
Probably not, since the project failed. You want to retool your attack. ;) A reasonable extended concern would be in what they would have done if it was successful, which is unknown. As a project that failed to attract the interest of the Cubans, for whatever reason, we know that they were not able to use it to wander into whatever gray areas they may or may not have had in mind.
National Endowment for "Democracy" - CIA front (Score:2)
Relevant news: On Democracy and Orchestrated Overthrows in Venezuela and Ukraine [ragingbullshit.com]
The National Endowment for Democracy [wikipedia.org] has been seen working behind the scenes in Ukraine, Venezuela, Turkey...
Also check out operation Gladio [globalresearch.ca]: secret networks of far-right groups orchestrating false-flag and other attacks against communist or any other left-wing movements in Europe, since WWII. 1992 BBC documentary [youtube.com] (bad quality though) "killed hundreds of innocent Europeans and attempted to blame the deaths on Baader Meinhof"
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"USAID is the lead U.S. Government agency that works to end extreme global poverty and enable resilient, democratic societies to realize their potential."
So things like anonymous communications that allows the citizenary to communicate without their government surveling them can be considered part of that mission. USAID is actually directed to promote democratic governements. It is like the old Radio Free America. They do not actively undermine governments, but they do put propaganda
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They do not actively undermine governments
Do you believe in Bigfoot too?
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Did you skip the part where they would start broadcasting their own propaganda over the network once it was popular?
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Did you skip the part where they would start broadcasting their own propaganda over the network once it was popular?
You did, apparently. Neither happened; it did not become popular, and they did not broadcast their propaganda over it.
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Of course all this falls apart when we note that US is no longer recognizing anonymous and free communications as a fundamental right of the citizen.
As an American with an interest in civics and history, I'd like to point out that however you feel about anonymity, that was never a fundamental right.
It was always the case that you have a right to privacy in your personal effects including communication, but it was up to YOU to keep it private. The restriction was never on knowing who something belongs to. Instead, the Right is to be free of government interference in your communication and to be free of the government searching your effects without caus
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USAID is suppose to be an aide organization. The moment they have to start laundering money they have gone off the reservation and entered CIA territory.
If you think USAID has ever been an "aid" organization, I have a bridge you might be interested in.
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I'm not sure where it says you're the guy they need to check with in order to determine the full breadth of responsibilities for each agency.
I'd prefer to let Congress and the President figure that out between them. Since those are people I can vote for.
that's really stupid of them (Score:2)
The government already has the CIA for this stuff. It was amazingly dumb of USAID to start doing the CIA's job. The head of USAID should resign followed by a full investigation.
But that won't happen because the government has stopped caring about appearances any more.
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The CIA needs fronts. They can't just hand out money with "Central Intelligence Agency" printed on the checks.
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It's not clear that USAID was at the front on this opperation. They were funding it secretly through shell companies. When it comes to clandestine operations the CIA has better qualifications. It's just stupid, and more stupid.
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It's not clear that USAID was at the front on this opperation. They were funding it secretly through shell companies. When it comes to clandestine operations the CIA has better qualifications. It's just stupid, and more stupid.
You assume that USAID is more than just a front for the CIA.
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This has been the job of USAID since it was founded, undermine governments that were not friendly to US economic powers and replace them with more cooperative ones. The CIA does this militarily, USAID does this economically and culturally. They also fund, through the Consulate system, English as a Second Language institutes that are supposed to promote US business and culture. I worked at one for a year in Peru.
Are they the only one? (Score:3)
USA's attention to Cuba seems silly (Score:4, Insightful)
It's funny how butthurt they are about Cuba and how much effort they put into overthrowing Castro. It's like they don't have any bigger problems.
Re:USA's attention to Cuba seems silly (Score:5, Insightful)
Batista was a U.S. puppet, and his cronies (who are now a significant voting block in FL) lost a lot of money and power when Castro came in. They want it back, and they want it back BAD. The U.S. will murder, commit terrorism, or do anything else to accomplish this goal.
The most shameful incident (IMHO) came in 1976, when a CIA agent [wikipedia.org] blew up a civilian Cuban airliner [wikipedia.org], killing 78 innocent people. And said CIA agent is still living free (and protected) in the U.S. to this day. The U.S., my country, openly committing terrorism for petty economic ends. Fucking pathetic.
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Batista was a U.S. puppet, and his cronies (who are now a significant voting block in FL) lost a lot of money and power when Castro came in. They want it back, and they want it back BAD. The U.S. will murder, commit terrorism, or do anything else to accomplish this goal.
The most shameful incident (IMHO) came in 1976, when a CIA agent [wikipedia.org] blew up a civilian Cuban airliner [wikipedia.org], killing 78 innocent people. And said CIA agent is still living free (and protected) in the U.S. to this day. The U.S., my country, openly committing terrorism for petty economic ends. Fucking pathetic.
Castro was a Soviet puppet, and his cronies (who are now a significant power block in Cuba) gained a lot of money and power when Castro came in. They want to keep it, and they want to keep it BAD. The Cuban communists will murder, commit terrorism, jail the opposition, or do anything else to accomplish this goal.
It is hard to pick the most shameful incident, but surely Che's bloodbaths must be considered.
The Truth About Che Guevara [worldaffairsjournal.org]
Cuba is a police state and Che was its co-founder. Cubans “love” him the same way Romanians “loved” Nicolae Ceausescu and East Germans “loved” Berlin Wall architect Erich Honecker
You know what happens to Cubans who display open hatred of Che?
They get arrested.
When he was still alive, they were executed or herded into slave-labor camps.
So yeah, everyone “loves” him. It’s required by law. Woe to those who disobey State Security.
The human spirit is a powerful force, though, and some Cubans can’t take it. A million and a half fled to the United States to escape the instruments of Che Guevara’s repression, many across the Florida Straits where the odds of survival are no better than two out of three. Others resisted at home, especially during the 1960s, the decade of global rebellion.
CHE GUEVARA [discoverthenetworks.org]
In his book Che Guevara: A Biography, Daniel James writes that Che himself admitted to ordering "several thousand" executions during the first year of the Castro regime. Felix Rodriguez, the Cuban-American CIA operative who helped track him down in Bolivia and was the last person to question him, says that Che during his final talk, admitted to "a couple thousand" executions. But he shrugged them off as all being of "imperialist spies and CIA agents."
Vengeance, much less justice, had little to do with the Castro/Che directed bloodbath in the first months of 1959. Che's murderous agenda in La Cabana fortress in 1959 was exactly Stalin's murderous agenda in the Katyn Forest in 1940. Like Stalin's massacre of the Polish officer corps, like Stalin's Great Terror against his own officer corps a few years earlier, Che's firing squad marathons were a perfectly rational and cold blooded exercise that served their purpose ideally. His bloodbath decapitated literally and figuratively the first ranks of Cuba's anti-Castro rebels.
Oh, and here are more of the people that you label as Batis
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You're referring to Cuba, a major outpost of communism in the Western hemisphere that aided attempts to overthrow governments around the world? Who could possibly object to the spread of murderous communist governments?
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Fact: The US sanctioned Cuba long before the missile crisis, in fact they started when the communists took control of the country. Strangely the US didn't do that when their puppet ruled there, quite heavy handed _and_ quite non-democratic. Documented facts.
Fact: The US placed nuclear missiles in Turkey in order to be able to strike into the Soviet heartland long before the missile crisis. That the Soviet wanted to do something similar i
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Gee, what a shocker (Score:2)
U.S. government, CIA, and old Batista cronies once again tries to overthrow Cuban government by any means necessary, film at eleven!
In 2009/2010? (Score:2)
The US is *still* doing this crap, presumably to cater to the folks who were for the dictator Batista, or the Mafia, who's still pissed at loosing all the money from those casinos?
Why is the US so in bed with China, if those in the "intelligence community" (for values of each of those words approaching zero as a limit) are so desperate to bring down China?
I want my tax dolars wasted on this back.
mark
I see nothing wrong with this (Score:2)
I'm unclear if this article is supposed to raise righteous anger at some evil by the old USA. But this sounds exactly like something we should be doing to promote our views, and probably a lot more effective than any threats or insults.
that's not how you do it... (Score:2)
If you want to end communism in cuba put a mcdonalds and a walmart in havana and wait about a month.
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USAID is a funding agency and they don't "plan" these things.
Yeah, that's the CIA's job.
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The CIA isn't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They're trying to ferment a violent government coup. Once a U.S. puppet is in place, you can kiss this free communication goodbye again.
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You seem to have confused your acronyms.