Prime Minister Wiretapped — Vast Corruption Upending Turkey's Government 123
cold fjord writes with an update on the political upheaval happening in Turkey "From the article: 'Dawn raids last Tuesday nabbed almost 60 people and implicated three government ministries, the directors of state banks, and some of Turkey's most powerful businessmen in a massive corruption probe spread across three different cases. Three members of Turkey's cabinet resigned on Christmas Day, and one called on Erdogan to follow suit as accusations of kickbacks, smuggling, and abuse of office continue to mount. The scandal has even acquired an international dimension as suspicions that Iran has been using Turkey's banks to shirk sanctions were further bolstered by the arrest of Reza Sarraf, an Iranian businessmen who is accused of bribing the Economic Minister while coordinating transactions from Iran worth $120 billion. The AKP is scrambling to defend itself by claiming the arrests are a result of a dastardly foreign conspiracy ... while police officials have been removed and reshuffled and special prosecutors appointed to a degree that makes Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre look like exemplary justice. The Turkish press continues to eagerly publish the latest colorful details that emerge from the probe, including police reports of $500,000 bribes administered in boxes of chocolate and news that Erdoan himself was being wiretapped as part of the investigation.' Erdogan has been urged to resign, three days ago Turkey banned journalists from entering police stations, and police are using tear gas on protesters."
They named a country after a bird? (Score:1)
That you eat?
And there is corruption there?
No way
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=2WNrx2jq184 [youtube.com]
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Personally I'm in favour of "Turkish Delight."
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5th or 6th definition in the 'Urban dictionary'?
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As available on Amazon.com [amazon.com], and as understood by the overwhelming majority of the population that knows the term.
You seem to have at a strange compulsion, probably more than one.
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Here is some trivia: in Hebrew that bird is called 'Hodu' which is also used in that language as the name of a country you call in English 'India'.
Rumor has it there is corruption there too.
Is that a coincidence or what?
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If you can find any country in the world where there isn't rampant corruption and bribery and other shenanigans, I'd like to hear about it.
Here you go. [transparency.org] Denmark seems rather nice.
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I read somewhere that 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.'
That mayst been some olden goings on tither.
Seems like they've bettered themselves since.
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I read somewhere that 'Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.'
[Citation needed]
(grin)
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There is corruption, and then there is Corruption. I can't imagine paying a bribe in the Western world as part of a driver's license application. But there are countries where that is necessary, and similar arrangements are needed for basic interaction with the government or other institutions. That is a fight that various parts of the world fight, and which drives the public mad. The people hate the corruption, but then when given a job in which they can extract payments too few people resist the tempt
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The funniest thing? In Turkish, that bird is called "Hindi", which assumes that the bird came from India...
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Re:They named a country after a bird? (Score:4, Interesting)
Its actually pretty interesting to read where the various state names originated. People don't really think about them, but its almost invariably not nearly all that ... impressive.
Half a dozen at least are named for Kings and Queens (Carolinas, Georgia, Louisiana, Virginias...) New York is named for the Duke of York. Kind of amusing the names stuck what with the revolution and all.
Indiana is roughly 'land of indians'
Oklahoma is literally 'red person' in a native dialect
Caliornia is 'hot oven' in spanish
Vermont is 'green mountain' in french
And perhaps most amusing Texas amusingly is "hello friend'.
With only minor changes in history, we could have had a nuclear superpower named roughly "The Republic of Hey Buddy"
Names are funny things. :p
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Texas is named for Tiles, because one of the earliest parts settled had red soil suitable for making roofing tiles from. Spanish has shifted its spelling/prononciation a bit between then and now.
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I beleive you are mistaken.
The origin of the state name, Texas, is from the word, "Tejas", which means 'friends' in the Caddo language.
(from wikipedia, but it is cited, and is confirmed elsewhere.)
Further, it is used as a greeting. So the "hello friends" interpretation is reasonable.
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Eh, not quite.
California means nothing, it's a word that a novelist made up and appeared as a fictional land in "Las sergas de EsplandiÃn" - a book which the conquistadores were familiar with, and from which they drew the name.
Your other entries appear to be correct though.
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California means nothing, it's a word that a novelist made up and appeared as a fictional land in "Las sergas de EsplandiÃfn" - a book which the conquistadores were familiar with, and from which they drew the name.
You appear to be right, the origin I had appears to be a minor and largely discredited theory.
In any case, the premise that it is a 'nothing' word simply because it names a made up land in work of fiction is not convincing. Even if that is its origin, the name likely still means something.
Man
what kind of box (Score:2)
police reports of $500,000 bribes administered in boxes of chocolate and news that Erdoan himself was being wiretapped as part of the investigation.'
That must be a big box to hide that many bills
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400 bills of 1000EUR each are not that much volume. Europe has money that is hard to conterfit, unlike some countries with paper money on the quality-level of 3rd world countries, like the US.
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Europe has money that is hard to conterfit, unlike some countries with paper money on the quality-level of 3rd world countries, like the US.
It was once thought impossible to counterfeit the Euro, but since then counterfeits are up (here is one example [securitymanagement.com]). With modern printing technology improving and becoming cheaper, the counterfeiters are becoming more and more sophisticated. Any security feature that is widely known can be copied.
Which is why both Europe and the US are constantly working to improve their currency. You apparently are not aware of that, but check out the latest security features. [newmoney.gov] They are kind of cool.
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Your original answer was 10 words that actually answered the question. You then went on a 25 word rant about the US. Yes, we've noticed you don't like the US. The post you replied to above was correct, and more on topic to you than you were to the original.
Your first post is tedious axe grinding. It would be nice if you could give it a rest for a day, or is it a strong and compelling obsession to you?
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No, my answer was 35 words that explain what is going on. That you think it is a "rant", that I point out that the quality of paper-money in the US is too low to allow $1000 bills only shows your ignorance or that standards that the modern world applies to paper money.
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that I point out that the quality of paper-money in the US is too low to allow $1000 bills only shows your ignorance
It shows that you don't understand the quality of modern USD paper money. But whatever, who cares.
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That you think it is a "rant", that I point out that the quality of paper-money in the US is too low to allow $1000 bills only shows your ignorance or that standards that the modern world applies to paper money.
If the standards of the "modern world" include accuracy for questions of fact, you aren't living up to them.
Currency Facts [moneyfactory.gov]
United States currency denominations above $100 are not available from the Department of the Treasury, the Federal Reserve System, or the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. On July 14, 1969, the Department of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve System announced that currency notes in denominations of $500, $1,000, $5,000, and $10,000 would be discontinued immediately due to lack of use. Although they were issued until 1969, they were last printed in 1945.
The US Treasury could print new $1,000 bills if it wanted to, it wouldn't be a problem.
Interesting that the year the US defeated Germany and Japan in WW2 was the last year they printed $1,000 bills.
There is amateur, and there is pro (Score:1)
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A USD$100 bill first issued in 1929 would be comparable to $1,300 today inflation adjusted. While things are certainly different, there are still plenty of legal things where cash is king and large bills make sense today.
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I actually had one once (was a birthday present). Got rid of it as soon as possible. Never heard the one about "bin Ladens", though.
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Snopes has an article on cocaine on currency.
Apparently the idea is that its such a fine powder that it will contaminate all the bills it comes into contact with, the cash counting machines, ATMs, etc.
The implication of these stories is always that the bills considered "most" contaminated were handled by drug dealers or used to snort coke, but the reality is that very few are but the powder is so fine it can spread easily to thousands of other bills that were never in proximity to cocaine.
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If you have 1000 EUR bills there is a 100% probability that they're fakes.
The largest Euro bill issued is the 500.
Wiretapped by... ? (Score:1)
So some turkish banks were caught helping some unnamedIranian actors.
Then some members of the Turkish cabinet, bank manages and the prime minister himself have been forced or are about to resign, because ...
Some providential wiretaps show some wrongdoings.
Who ordered those wiretaps and when?
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The Turkish police didn't really have to place wiretaps to listen in on Erdogan.
They could have asked the NSA for recordings.
The truly bizarre aspect of this (Score:2, Offtopic)
The truly bizarre aspect of this is that it involves aspects of a power struggle involving the Turkish PM and a Turkish Imam currently residing in the US.
Turkish imam Fethullah Gulen wields power from self-imposed exile [ft.com]
The more extreme Islamists in power are facing challenge from more moderate Muslims.
I hope it turns out well, or Turkey is in trouble. Erdogan has already managed to yank out many of the checks on the government that have long existed, as well as cozying up with Iran.
Re:The truly bizarre aspect of this (Score:4, Informative)
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He's a "secularlist" in name only. He's using the fundamentalists to consolidate power. The extremists have made a lot of power gains during his reign.
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As a practical matter: I hope the NSA has as much dirt on his replacement, as they had on him.
I sure wish Snowden would go ahead and release all the NSA dirt on our politicians/judges (esp supreme court judges)/reporters/CEOs etc. But the NSA likely had those files locked down well.
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It is his outside portrait that is accepted as secularist which is beginning to shatter since Gezi. In Turkey he has always been known to be a hard roots muslim extremist. But anyone pointing it out is quickly discredited by the major media in Turkey and totally ignored by any media outlets abroad. He even has a conviction for "Inciting people to hatred and hostility" for a religious speech he delivered.
Re:The truly bizarre aspect of this (Score:5, Informative)
You're the first person I've ever heard call Erdogan a Muslim extremist. Authoritarian, sure, but generally he's considered a secularist.
You must not pay too much attention to what he's actually doing and said. If he's a secularist, then it should be very easy for you to explain why he's pushing for the destruction of churches, and blames everything "on da juice"(aka the Jews), and why he just went on a massive hunt, imprison, and disappearing act against the secular members of the military leadership. Going as far as imprisoning members who were responsible for installing a secular government the last time around and making those individuals actually disappear after a very quick show trial, then installing generals who are devoutly muslim.
Secular this guy is not.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party_(Turkey) [wikipedia.org]
Not and Islamic political party, but still #1 amongst Islamists.
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Like most politicians, Erdogan has figured out that people vote with their wallets, and the emptiest wallets you can fill will be your best supporters. From what I've read, the more religious Turks, especially in the interior, are the poorest and a major part of his power base has been through massive construction projects funneled to construction companies owned by these more religious Turks.
As for his party, Erdogan rose to power when the military still was considered to have veto power over civilian gov
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Erdogan while mayor of Istanbul in the late 90's said "You cannot be both a secular and a Muslim. Either you have to be a Muslim, or a secularist. If you were to be both together, it'd repel like magnetism. It's an impossibility to have them together" (Turkish: "Hem laik, hem Müslüman olunmaz. Ya Müslüman olacaksn, ya laik. kisi bir arada olunca ters mknatslanma yapar. Mümkün deil, ikisi bir arada olamaz" )
Secular this guy is not.
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...power struggle involving the Turkish PM and a Turkish Imam currently residing in the US.
Has all the trappings of a coup attempt. William J. Donovan would be proud of what his creation has become.
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If you imprison the political opposition it isn't uncommon for them to leave the country. On the outside they tend to be beyond your reach.
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It's also not uncommon for them to attempt a takeover from "beyond your reach", especially with a little help from their "friends".
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Yes, well both Khomeini and Lenin would know about that. I don't think Donovan's crew had much to do with them.
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With Khomeini they certainly did. The Shah's death was expected, and they needed somebody to put in to keep the commies out. The hostage deal was just PR addon, if not revenge for George Bush being fired from the CIA.. Lenin? I'm sure he was getting help from somebody [wildboar.net]. Heh, turns out to be that same old bunch that the CIA/NSA/DEA/FBI/etc.. actually serve today. There's just nothing new these days *sigh*
Please note the major economic issue here (and that's what really counts) is that markets are saturated,
beyond belief! (Score:1)
Take a page (Score:1)
Take a page from the US play book: Just fine their companies a fraction of the profit they made from it, tell everyone it was the "harshest penalties ever handed out" for such a conspiracy, and then reiterate their commitment to the "consumers" affected by the "isolated" case of fraud.
Real reason: power struggle (Score:4, Interesting)
The economy looks strong and religious zealots are praising the PM and this is getting to his head. He forgets that it is Fethullah that actually controls everything in Pennsylvania and he openly started fighting Fethullah by banning prep schools, which is the main source of fresh meat for Fethullah. (there must be other behind the scene issues, but we dont know them yet). That link is the Zaman newspaper, which is also owned by Fethullah [todayszaman.com]
So now Fethullah/CIA is tired of PM's shit and they are unveiling what was already known for who knows how long. Interesting things are unfolding if you are Turkish.
Conspiracy (Score:1)
Some more juicy news (Score:5, Insightful)
- This is a power struggle between an Imam who lives in a mansion in Pennsylvania vs. his servant.
- In the past week, 5 ministers resigned. That is almost %20 of the cabinet
- In the past two days, almost all the police chiefs in the country were suspended
- When district attorneys ordered police to arrest some key businessmen, police refused. Eventhough this is a constitutional offense and has a penalty of jailtime, no one is on trial
- A reshuffle is expected tonight or tomorrow. Definitely before weekend. The servant wants to pick up the pieces but the Imam is bent on destroying them
- These fractions were once united through their belief in Allah and were hell-bent on destroying the old regime which they claim was built by American servants and godless infidels
- No Muslim country in the area would interfere if these two fractions are to murder each other this very moment. Just like Assad is murdering his country and destroying history that dates before religion and no one does anything useful
List goes on and on and on. You wouldn't care and I can't blame you. Just know that these are not much different from any other crazy religious people in the world. Just like anywhere else in the world, there are some people in this country who are harming its future. The mistake is that they are ruling now. This too shall pass.
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Only the ruthlessness of an Ataturk and the military which succeeded him can bring modernity and secular order to move such an Islamic country forward. Turks rightly admire Kemal Ataturk, but unless enough are willing to pick up a gun they will become prey for the fundamentalists. Theocratic superstitions (all of them) are only able to see democracy as a stepping-stone to their takeover of the State. Those who would resist superstition had better be willing to kill for their freedom. Ataturk and the Young
The NSA thinks (?) (Score:1)
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Read John Perkin's Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. This is standard US corporate state policy: First try to buy off leaders in order to get them to do your bidding. If that fails try to install bought and paid for opposition. Finally in the worst case kill the leader.
Going into 2014.... (Score:2)
Ahem....well in case you haven't figured this out yet...
We are fast approaching a pivotal moment in this human history. We are all aware, government employs primarily people who are attracted with conquering, and destroying humanity. However, up until this point you could flee to far off lands, you could cut a kings head off and end his/her reign and the weapons that people who do like government had access to were simple cannon and pistol and later during WWII planes/missiles.
This means that regionally a c
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I think OP meant, "live as slaves -- as equals, or face extinction". I think they meant to describe living in slavery as essentially making all of us (slaves) equal. I don't think the slave-owners were intended to be included in the equality.
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Hi there! You're clueless about what constitutes new for nerds and what matters! We've got story after story on Slashdot about intelligence agencies with people making claims that they must be doing it to politicians. Here is a case of a national leader being wiretapped, and you claim "Nope" "Nope". That is before the question of a NATO ally's government staring into the chasm is considered, and the possible ties to Iranian sanctions busting. You are truly clueless.
Indeed. (Score:1, Informative)
We've got story after story on Slashdot about intelligence agencies with people making claims that they must be doing it to politicians. Here is a case of a national leader being wiretapped, ...
Where in any of the links does this have anything to do with foreign (i.e. NSA) wiretapping? So what, local authorites are wiretapping.
The wiretapping was done by Turkish authorities to catch corruption in their own government.
It has nothing to do with the NSA other than a vague accusation of foreign conspiracy of some sorts in an attempt to deflect accusations.
So ANY wiretapping story is gonna be automatically considered an NSA story?
Clueless indeed.
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Consider the NSA likely knew all this and used the information like Machiavelli.
Consider the NSA likely knows of 100 equally volatile potential scandals world wide and is using that information.
All these things ARE within the NSA's job description. Doing the same thing to all three branches of the US government and the press is not.
I for one, want to see what the NSA has on 'my' senators (Feinstein stepped into it by defending them). They've collected it, we should force them to reveal it. Just so ev
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It matters and to suggest it doesn't just shows what a myopic moron you are.
The islamists are taking over the asylum and they're a bit too close for my liking.
This is a country that wants to get into the EU? I think they have a bit of work to do before that... Like providing basic rights to their citizens rather than operating a government that makes Argentina at its 30 year ago worst look positively angelic by comparison.
Perhaps Mr Anonymous Coward would have a different view if he lived in a country rapid
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The islamists are taking over the asylum and they're a bit too close for my liking.
Ah yes, the thinly veiled racism. They're brown people with names you don't know how to pronounce. That makes them evil, right?
Is it just me or is every Google+ user that posts to slashdot a douchebag?
Re:OK.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, there is a point to "the islamists are taking over". It is a power struggle between Erdogan's party, which has a bit of an islamist agenda, and the Gülen movement, which is an islamist movement, whose goals are unclear. Turkey has always had a "deep state", mainly secular, Atatürk-oriented, which has done some ghastly things. And now either islamist movement is interfering there. It's not racism. It might be bigoted, but racism?
BTW, Turks are not brown people, although a few do have unpronounceable names.
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Well, there is a point to "the islamists are taking over". It is a power struggle between Erdogan's party, which has a bit of an islamist agenda, and the Gülen movement, which is an islamist movement, whose goals are unclear. Turkey has always had a "deep state", mainly secular, Atatürk-oriented, which has done some ghastly things. And now either islamist movement is interfering there. It's not racism. It might be bigoted, but racism?
BTW, Turks are not brown people, although a few do have unpronounceable names.
The leaders of the USA have also done ghastly and unspeakable things over the years. This might seem embarrassing to Turkey but can you imagine a corruption probe exposing the fact that US cabinet members and the president are as hopelessly corrupt? I mean we all know that most US political leaders they are corrupt to various degrees as they are in most countries but can you imagine the FBI raiding major corporations, wall-street banks, wiretapping the white house and hauling these bozos into court? At leas
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I think many will agree (and quite a few will disagree or defend it). But my comment was to point out that the comment wasn't necessarily racist per se. And that the Turkish law enforcement acts now seems to be a result of one faction gaining control over it, and using it to get the other one out of office.
Re:OK.. About the Gülen movement (Score:1, Informative)
Well, there is a point to "the islamists are taking over". It is a power struggle between Erdogan's party, which has a bit of an islamist agenda, and the Gülen movement, which is an islamist movement, whose goals are unclear. Turkey has always had a "deep state", mainly secular, Atatürk-oriented, which has done some ghastly things. And now either islamist movement is interfering there. It's not racism. It might be bigoted, but racism?
BTW, Turks are not brown people, although a few do have unpronounceable names.
Actually, you would be surprised to know that the Gülen movement encourages inter-religious dialogue and is one of the most progressive Islamic schools when it comes to women's rights and dialogue with the West. [wikipedia.org]
Well, at least I was surprised. Apparently, not all Islamic schools/movements are Islamist.
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Ah, yes, the not so thinly veiled stupidity that confuses race and religion.
Religion is a personal choice, you moron. At least it should be.
Re:OK.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Religion is a personal choice, you moron. At least it should be.
You might want to get out in the real world a bit more. Religion is often what you're born with. Yes, it would be nice if everyone got to pick and chose after careful deliberation, but that rarely happens. And, in many places in the world, religion is also a tag or badge or category that places significant restrictions on your life at many levels.
Very few countries have the separation between church and state that is jealously guarded in the US.
Re:OK.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Many Americans are shocked to find out how religion and the state are still tied together in even Western Europe.
They are doing still stuff that was ruled out in the US before the revolution.
In a lot of ways the fact that America is so religious is due to the separation allowing for more freedom and diversity.
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Turkey is more secular than the USA. In the courts in TR u don't take an oath on holy books. Prime ministers take oath on constitution. Not saying "God bless Turkey" . On Turkish money there are pictures of Ataturk and Turkish scientists. No "In God we trust" on our money either ;)
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Turkey is more secular than the USA. In the courts in TR u don't take an oath on holy books. Prime ministers take oath on constitution. Not saying "God bless Turkey" . On Turkish money there are pictures of Ataturk and Turkish scientists. No "In God we trust" on our money either ;)
That may well be 'superficial secularism'. If indeed, the Turkish government is closely tied with a single religious faction and grants extra power to that faction, the window dressing makes little difference.
And you don't have to swear on Bibles in the US if you are so inclined.
IMHO, the Church / State separation is not as assiduously maintained as it should be (along with separation of powers, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and a couple of other useful documents and concepts).
Re: OK.. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Uh....
14 US Senators do not avow that they are Christian.
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What are you on about? We have a Muslim President! ;)
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"In God we Trust; all other must use cash"
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I'm not sure I'm willing to give thoughtless people a pass.
But suppose I grant that you're right. It still doesn't change things much because skin color doesn't matter much at all while a belief system does matter.
The rightness or wrongness of judging has nothing to do with whether or not the object of our judgement is responsible or not. We shouldn't judge based on skin color because skin color is mostly irrele
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. Religion is often what you're born with. Yes, it would be nice if everyone got to pick and chose after careful deliberation, but that rarely happens.
That is actually what many of the fights around extreme Islam are about: convert, leave, or die. That also goes for the local Muslims since they are often not considered pius enough for the tastes of al Qaida. The fact that al Qaida kills many Muslims has been costing them significant amounts of support in the Muslim world.
The current Turkish leadership has been playing footsy with Iran and other extremist elements. That have been sowing the seeds of future trouble.
There are many people in Africa turning
Seriously? (Score:2)
You're the one that needs to get out in the real (non-costal) US a bit more. I wish you were right, but the facts on the ground are that in most of the rural US, the state and the predominant Christian sect church are hand in hand and full lock step, even to the point of prayers opening county and city government meetings.
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> Is it just me or is every Google+ user that posts to slashdot a douchebag?
So I see you are just as guilty of stereotyping as any racist.
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Islam = Race ?? (Score:1)
The islamists are taking over the asylum and they're a bit too close for my liking.
Islam is regarded as race now ?
What kind of fucking moron are you ?
Islam = Race ?? (Score:1)
The islamists are taking over the asylum and they're a bit too close for my liking.
Ah yes, the thinly veiled racism
Islam is regarded as race now ?
What kind of fucking moron are you ?
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No, what makes this particular group evil is that they want to turn another nation into a theocracy. It has nothing to do with their names or skin color. I have no problem with Muslims who are not evil, and that constitutes the majority of all Muslims. Religious fundamentalists are a problem, regardless of what religion they claim to be operating on behalf of.
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I don't think he said it wasn't important, he said how is this news for nerds. Or in other words, why is it on slashdot's front page. Where is the nerd/geek connection.
Inspiration? - Yep (Score:1)
Stuff that matters? - Nope
Correction: What happened in Turkey should be an inspiration for all citizens of the United States of America.
The American government has grown so corrupted that even a broken website cost the American tax payers One fucking Billion Dollars ! ( http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-02/obamacare-website-costs-top-1-billion [zerohedge.com] )
When will we have FBI raiding the White House ?
Re:OK.. (Score:5, Informative)
There is no major news agency in Europe reporting about this outside of Turkey.
Apparently reading newspapers is becoming a lost art.
France [lemonde.fr]
Germany [spiegel.de]
Belgium [standaard.be]
The Netherlands [www.nrc.nl]
Great Britain [bbc.co.uk]
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...yeah, right.
this must be the 234th "uuu news aren't reporting about this!!" shit piece of commentary I've read this year about this and that - every fucking time it has been about something that the news orgs were in fact reporting about. I don't know why the fuck this myth about turkish problems persists - since fuck, the news are reporting it! THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE FUCKING DOLTS WHO REPEAT THE LIE THAT THE NEWS AREN'T REPORTING ABOUT IT ARE IN FACT NOT READING THE NEWS, but still want to appear like