A Free Internet, If You Can Keep It 102
Kethinov writes "My Congresswoman, Zoe Lofgren, a prominent opponent of the infamous Stop Online Piracy Act, has introduced two bills to the U.S. House of Representatives designed to protect the free and open internet, expand the protections of the Fourth Amendment to digital communications, and protect against the introduction of any further SOPA-like bills. Since these are issues Slashdotters care deeply about, I wanted to open up the bills for discussion on Slashdot. The bills are: ECPA 2.0 and the Global Free Internet Act. Is my Congresswoman doing a good job? Is there room for improvement in the language of the bills? If you're as excited by her work as I am, please reach out to your representatives as well and ask them to work with Rep. Lofgren. It will take a big coalition to beat the pro-RIAA/MPAA establishment politics on internet regulation."
Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Interesting)
As a euroboy I can only urge you Americans to support politicans like this. Your political system seems bent and broken to me but this is a glimmer of hope at least. Keep fighting for your freedoms, they seem to dictate the direction the rest of us get herded.
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Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Interesting)
Thanks Europe. Your debt crisis and failing economic system are a shining star for all the world.
Our debt crisis? Look at that big pink elephant [usdebtclock.org] behind you. Oh and it might be red with many golden stars, you know, like from communist China?!
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Obviously that guy is a douchenozzle. The economic elite in the US are responsible for the current condition of the global economy.
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The difference is people are still willing to lend us money hand over fist, even at a known loss to themselves.
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The difference is people are still willing to lend us money hand over fist, even at a known loss to themselves.
France Joins Germany to Sell T-Bills At Negative Yield. [wsj.com]
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As a fraction of GDP, the US has less public debt than Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, or the UK.
So... yes. European debt crisis.
Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong. As of 2011, US public debt was at >100% of its GDP, almost putting it in the top ten:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt [wikipedia.org]
If you look at external debt, it's a different picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt [wikipedia.org]
If you cancel out what all the countries owe each other, it becomes even more interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_international_investment_position [wikipedia.org]
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That table is inaccurate. (It's the first place I looked.) Remember I said public debt, which is what's usually used to compare the debts of different countries. That page has two sources for public debt figures: CIA world factbook and the IMF. If you look at the CIA World Factbook for the US (actually, they have a whole table, just like the Wikipedia page), you'll find that it's 68%. If you look at the IMF table that the Wikipedia page cites, you'll see that they're actually listing "general government gro
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Well, I intentionally included three different appreciations of 'debt' to show that there is more than one way to look at it (one could argue that the NIIP is much more interesting that the other two). I'd say my three Wikipedia references trumped your 'no references at all'. Your initial statement was clearly a gross oversimplification of matters.
The CIA world factbook says this about their figure for US public debt:
"note: data cover only what the United States Treasury denotes as "Debt Held by the Public,
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Your three references are to completely different things. My two references are on the Wikipedia page we're talking about.
As I understand it, all debt figures cited by the CIA World Factbook are public debt. Public debt is also the standard for comparing debt of countries.
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Your three references are to completely different things.
Yes, that was kind of the point. I was trying to illustrate that public debt perhaps isn't the only metric that is useful in comparing countries. I do agree that private debt (and thus external debt and the NIIP) is a different matter.
As I understand it, all debt figures cited by the CIA World Factbook are public debt.
Well, there are apparently a lot of definitions of public debt used in the listing. Just look at the differences between the 'notes':
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2186.html [cia.gov]
I wish I could find a credible source that has a strict definition o
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What we can agree on, I believe, is that pretty much all the first world countries are in a bit of a bind when it comes to the matters of debt and the solidity of their economies.
To a degree. It's hard to say. We've been in more dire situations before, but perhaps in the past approached them less stupidly. The US is still able to sell bonds at incredibly low rates, so at present the market seems to think our debt is no big deal. The European situation is complicated, but it's certainly not going well.
Certainly we can agree that there are a lot of countries that manage to have less debt than we do. Most have much lower GDPs, but not all.
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I sure hope they have some herding plans for Spanish politicians. Preferably into the nearest prison.
Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Interesting)
As a euroboy I can only urge you Americans to support politicans like this.
Zoe represents California's 16th district. It consists of most of the city of San Jose (where I live), Santa Clara, and Morgan Hill. It is probably the nerdiest congressional district in the country. People here care about this stuff, but it is not even on the radar of most politicians.
Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Insightful)
People here care about this stuff, but it is not even on the radar of most politicians.
The point is you now have an official chance to get it on their radar. I hope you're not going to let it pass.
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>Zoe represents California's 16th district. It consists of most of the city of San Jose (where I live), Santa Clara, and Morgan Hill. It is probably the nerdiest congressional district in the country. People here care about this stuff, but it is not even on the radar of most politicians.
I watched the SOPA markup live. There were exactly three committee members fighting against it, or trying to patch it to make it less terrible. These were: Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), Darrell Issa (R-CA), and Jason Chaffetz (R-UT
Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Funny)
As an American I would ask Europeans to please not tell Americans you support this. In fact, it'd really help if you come out strongly against this. Say Americans have to conform to the world view or something like that. Basically say whatever you'd normally say about the environment but replace the environment with Internet censorship. Thanks.
Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:5, Insightful)
As Winston Churchill reputedly once put it, "America can always be relied upon to do the right thing ... after exhausting all the alternatives."
It took me about two decades of voting and following US politics to appreciate the full meaning of that. How can something simultaneously fill me with pride and exasperation? (I'll guess find out when I have kids.)
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How can something simultaneously fill me with pride and exasperation? (I'll guess find out when I have kids.)
Yes. (But it's worth it.)
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Your political system seems bent and broken to me
Compared to what, out of curiosity? I don't think anyone would argue that the political system here is perfect and there is no room for improvement, but to me there don't seem to be a whole lot of good models to follow. Sweden is about the only country that really seems to consistently be better than the US in the political system. Most of the rest of the world seems like examples of what not to do. The UK, France, and Germany seem 50-50.
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That it's broken doesn't mean there is a better alternative out there. You can objectively tell when an engine is "broken" (doesn't work), regardless of there being a better alternative out there. Then again, you're also right the rest of the world is probably broken too!
Re:Still hope for the US. (Score:4, Insightful)
This post says nothing untrue or insulting. He states a fact, our political system is bent and broken (in reality, they all are, just in different degrees. The second point he makes is to encourage us in supporting those U.S. politicians who act as Rep. Lofgren has here... to try to preserve and strengthen our freedoms and liberties, because as he basically said, the world looks to us. As the U.S. goes, so does the rest of the world.
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Keep fighting for your freedoms, they seem to dictate the direction the rest of us get herded.
This would have been a perfect time to repeal the nonsensical limitations on scanner radios that were based on analog cellphones and the desire of people who were using RADIO systems to keep other people with radios from hearing them. This mandated gap in coverage is no longer justifiable, yet it remains on the books.
I do like her in some ways (Score:3)
Lofgren represents Northern California with the tech and Internet companies. They have a monied interest in an open Internet, naturally you'd think that their paid congresscritter fights for that. This bill falls right into that. However, back in 2002 she introduced a bill that would invalidate EULAs. That would seriously anger this core constituency. It really seems that she's looking out for us.
Well, at least in this one respect (she still promotes institutional racism, unequal protection under the law, a
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I'm not from the US. But their system seems a hell of a lot better than the European system of having a undemocratic umbrella group controlling what every country does.
Awesome (Score:2, Informative)
This is exciting that a member of Congress is doing this, I will reach out to my local representatives and ask them to support this.
Re:Awesome (Score:4, Informative)
And you can find contact for your local rep here:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/ [house.gov]
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The information on that web site is for the current "lame duck" congress. If your district was redrawn, like mine, this may not be who your new representative is. Depending upon the situation you may actually have more success contacting the person in your new district. After all a congressman you don't get to vote on next time may not be as motivated to help you as one who needs your vote in two years.
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Good call.
4th A applies to email and posts hosted elsewhere (Score:1, Informative)
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I think big media is stupid and has created a ton of problems for itself because it doesn't change it's business model and because it backing these stupid laws (SOPA, ACTA).
I'm a big supporter of eff.org. I don't use Facebook because of privacy issues. But all this doesn't mean that you can take someone else's property.
When the last Harry Potter book came out - do you think it would have been legitimate for you to copy the book, print it
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You are not given absolute control, nor is the control you are granted to last forever.
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No....the Fourth Amendment doesn't apply to personal email and that is one of the major points of ECPA 2.0. Right now, if your personal email is not in an "electronic communications system for one hundred and eighty days or less," it is receiving virtually no privacy protections at all. Even if it hasn't been 180 days yet, that communication could still be handed over by your service provider. How many governmental requests did Google/Gmail receive this past year....?
The Senator is right (from TFA): "the de
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I should have said the 4th A *SHOULD* apply to email and posts hosted elsewhere.
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This applies to personal emails and other effects but it is not license to take others intellectual property and do with as you like.
What the hell are you talking about, and how is it relevant to the story?
We need to defend intellectual property as well as our own privacy.
And judging from your comment, you propose to do that by... invading people's privacy for 'safety'? But no, I don't really want the government to waste my tax dollars going after people who copy files.
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Unfortunately there are people who think that intellectual property is nonsense; that there should be no copyright laws. The post on the 4th A was written too quickly. It should have said that the 4th A *SHOULD* apply to papers and effects such as emails. I'm a big privacy fan and am appalled by the direction our society is going. For example that Facebook owns the content written there
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There is no such thing as "intellectual property". There is copyright, patent, and trademark law. These were created for various policy reasons most of which no longer exist or were never valid in the first place.
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I wish (Score:3)
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Becasue you have talked to them? Or becasue you are a lazy do nothing and just put headlines into your own preconceived context?
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Because they have closed door sessions with lobbyists that support issues not relevant to my state.
Because they are mostly anti-tax, tea-bagger, jag-offs.
Are you a congressman or something, why the personal attack?
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Well, if the people of your district continue to reelect them, I would say the problem lies elsewhere. That they may be "anti-tax, tea-bagger, jag-offs" and still win can only mean that they are a fairly accurate reflection of your neighbors. And as for the people they represent, it seems they're doing exactly what is expected. Either way, it's up to you all to replace them with somebody more to your liking.
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Encourage positive behaviour from your politicians (Score:4, Insightful)
My spelling gives it away, probably... I am a Brit living outside the US. But Congresswoman Lofgren's approach is one that would go a long way to winning my vote, if I was living in San Jose and was eligible to vote.
If you are in her Congressional District and you agree with her stance, I would suggest sending her a message of support (let her know that she is doing a Good Thing... she is not a mind-reader, and positive feedback is always welcomed).
If you are not in her Congressional District, I would suggest sending your Congress-person a request to get behind her proposal, and also sending her a letter to say that you support her stance, and you have asked your Congress-person to do the same.
Sorry (Score:2)
My state's congress creatures are so pro-corporate and police state as to make Eugene McCarthy now look like a centrist.
Too late this year (Score:2)
This seems like a throw-away bill. There is no chance it will make it to the president's desk before congress closes for the year and all bills have to start over.
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Which is addressed in her discussion of the bills and why she is introducing them now.
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This won't even make it out of committee unfortunately.
Which committee? If any of my congress-critters are members, I'll crawl up their asses and set up camp until these bills get to the floor.
Orwell (Score:1)
In our Orwellian nation, I regard with suspicion any legislation claiming to preserve 'freedom.' Too often, names like "Global Free Internet Act" end up being cover for precisely the opposite.
Perhaps I am not being fair here (and I don't have the time to read the impenetrable language of the bills), bit long experience has taught me to be this way.
Re:Orwell (Score:4, Insightful)
Zoe appears to be good people. She lead opposition to SOPA and against PCIPA's data retention requirements. I don't like that she supported the Sonny Bono act, but her proposed Public Domain Enhancement Act (Which would require periodic renewal of copyrights after 50 years, though that bill has gone nowhere) redeems her somewhat.
It will not take a big coalition. They are TINY (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't make the Mafia (one "a") look bigger than they are! The last time I checked, the whole global music industry made less in revenue than a single broke German construction company (Holzwinkel) made profit.
And the by far biggest part of that was iTunes.
It's not much different with the other media distribution and artist extortion industries.
They just have a giant overblown ego. (Judging from what I've seen with EMI, SonyBMG, and Warner, my only guess would be massive cocaine abuse.)
And they project that
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They have disproportionate influence compared to their financial clout, because the media are the means of communication with the people, and politicians find this both enticing and threatening at the same time.
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the problem is that SOPA is a Nuclear Option for IP things.
even if you are not in the US you can still be on the hook for violating it if
1 your internet presence has a edu /net / com extension
2 some US company decides that you violated Their IP
3 any of your business is in the US
4 Your country has treaties that require it to match the US regs
5 Your country has %resource% and the US decides that it needs to be Liberated (with the "corrections" to IP laws of course being part of that)
Actually read the bills (Score:5, Interesting)
I took a look at both bills. I'm not optimistic.
I would need to dig more into the ECPA 2.0 bill, but there are, at a minimum, some technical problems with the bill's language. The purpose seems to be to abolish GPS tracking, but the language is weasel-y, and it needs to clarify some points such as interaction with state laws.
The Global Free Internet Act appears to do nothing useful. It would create a task force ripe for regulatory capture [wikipedia.org], and it would probably result in less accountability than having groups continue to lobby Congress. Also, some of the factual statements about the Internet are incorrect, especially when making assumptions about the Internet's "original purpose."
I'm not saying that we couldn't have quality legislation in these areas, but the proposed bills are lacking.
Re:Actually read the bills (Score:4, Interesting)
Do you think its real purpose id different than its stated intent?
If we really want this bill, and really want it in a good fashion, we should make a wiki collaboration of it. Of course I am saying that, and it takes energy, and I'm heading off to work at the moment.
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In this case, to me, the bills just look ineptly written. That's to be expected, in a way; writing bills is not especially easy, and it usually takes a collaboration of people to look at all the possibilities and get it right. Unfortunately, sometimes that collaboration introduces corruption into the bill as well, since certain legislators will work for special interests. I don't think these bills are any different from others in this way.
I don't know how federal bills get written. In my state, where I
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What does the EFF say? (Score:5, Informative)
It would be nice to have someone with a degree of credibility look at this legislation and report on how useful it really is. That's exactly the sort of thing that the EFF should be doing. Have they reviewed it?
Why not apply wiki model to legislation? (Score:2)
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I would take it one further - the problem with wiki's is that they have a first-come, first served model, and the last edit wins.
What you really want is to load the text of the bill into a git repository. Each user interested in amending the bill does so, pushes their branch, and proposes it for merging (with Gerrit or something similar).
A web interface that permitted you to do the branching and editing would be great too.
This sort of thing has already been done with things like the law of Utah, but mostly
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War is Peace... (Score:2)
Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength...
Just take everything a bill is named for and reverse it and you get it's true goals.
SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) wouldnt have stopped Piracy but proliferated it.
Any time a a politician brings a think of the children arguement what they really are thinking about it corporate interests, etc...