U.S. Suspends JEEP Aid 136
gManZboy writes "As noted last week, the USAID's JEEP (Job Enabling English Proficiency) program has been using U.S. taxpayer dollars to train students in the Philippines to work at outsourcing call centers. An update: After Congressman Tim Bishop and a colleague protested to USAID, USAID decided to suspend funding to the effort. 'In response to the concerns you have raised, the Agency is suspending its participation in the English language training project in Mindanao pending further review of the facts,' said USAID deputy assistant administrator Barbara Feinstein, in a letter Monday to Bishop. 'Furthermore, the Agency has established a high-level taskforce to review these matters.' Bishop says that USAID needs to find ways to assist developing regions without compromising the jobs of U.S. call center workers"
Really Reads: (Score:3, Insightful)
You forgot to line the pockets of the right people in an effort to make a quick buck. I would dearly love to see if any of the call centres getting this aid and training have investments from US politicians or friends of them. Never underestimate a woman scorned, but never ever underestimate a polly who you "forgot" to pay.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You forgot to line the pockets of the right people in an effort to make a quick buck
... and that of using the money of citizens from country A to train citizens from country B to compete with against the citizens from country A
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Totally agree with the sentiment as I posted below [slashdot.org] but you do realize that you are either politician (ergo, supposed to be looking after the country to stop all your work being sent offshore) or you are a businessman (and therefore primarily focused with making the most profit you can without breaking the law). A byproduct of capitalism is that these two roles are in competition and in reality require politicians to take a stand and be able to say "Hey, this is going to suck, but we HAVE to do this..." and
Re: (Score:3)
This generation of politicians doesn't seem to be able to do anything that makes ANYONE THAT THEY KNOWs life harder in any shape, way or form - except when it was someone else's fault.
FTFY. They routinely make the lives of people they don't know and won't likely meet harder.
Re: (Score:2)
The funny thing is, when an individual small-ish company with, perhaps, up to a few thousand employees starts sending their jobs over seas, it makes very little impact on the overall economy. But when very large companies, which employ several tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of employees sends their labor-intensive jobs over seas, they're starting to cut out a great deal of their own consumer base, by removing those wages from the cash pool that also buys their products. I suppose it's not such a big
Re: (Score:2)
It is a stupid, kneejerk reaction... Maybe you are blissful in your ignorance of outher world, but English is useful not only to get an offshored, help desk work. From management to administratives and secretaries (passing by IT people), English knowledge is a useful tool for many people.
You could argue about if the US should be giving foreign aid (most of first world countries do, mind you) or if it is the most effective way to help. But the "oh if they speak english it is because they want my job" meme is
Re: (Score:2)
From TFA: "As noted last week, the USAID's JEEP (Job Enabling English Proficiency) program has been using U.S. taxpayer dollars to train students in the Philippines to work at outsourcing call centers."
Sounds like the USA paying to get their own jobs taken.
Re: (Score:2)
But the "oh if they speak english it is because they want my job" meme is too silly to think that it is other think that a disguise to more xenophobic instints.
Or the explicitly stated purpose of the fucking program.
Your high horse: get off it.
Re: (Score:2)
I am not saying that he did a bad thing in trying to put a stop to it, I am just doubting the motives behind it. US politics seems to be on a massive downhill slope over the last few decades - or perhaps I just didn't see it before. As for my vote, I vote for the greens although I am a member of the Australian Pirate Party. If Assange is able to contest a place in the Senate, I will be voting for him. When the democrats (Not to be confused with the US Democrats) were calling bullshit as needed in the senate
Re:Really Reads: (Score:5, Informative)
My mistake. However, I am inclined, when presented with a US politician who is doing the right thing, to be purely supportive and not question motives. I think that approach is more productive. It happens so rarely, that I would hate to ever dissuade a politician from doing the right thing.
It turns out this congressman, Tim Bishop, is a pretty good egg. He's been consistent about pro-peace, pro-human rights, pro-gay rights, pro-women's rights and pro-prosperity and pro-worker positions. As sleazeball politicians go, he's about as good as it gets (I get all that from his Wikipedia page plus his ratings from certain good government groups). He does not accept corporate campaign funding in any form, his website claims.
You gots to be grateful when you come across one of these guys, know what I mean? Hey, good luck down there. You've got your work cut out for you too. I see Australia is trying to avoid some of the worst mistakes the US has made regarding deregulation, etc. I am glad to hear you support the Pirate Party. I do too, but not many of them run for office here in the States.
Re: (Score:2)
It turns out this congressman, Tim Bishop, is a pretty good egg.
Hey, if I misjudged, I am big enough to admit it. If he is squeaky clean, great, US politics needs more like that.
Re: (Score:2)
Why do you think it's illegal for corporations to donate to campaigns? Of course they can. They just have a limit. Congressman Bishop is just one of the handful who don't except corporate donations. The great Bernie Sanders of Vermont is another.
Re: (Score:2)
I may be mistaken here. I see that there is a prohibition on donations to campaigns for national office. It appears that includes Senate campaigns, but I'm not sure about the House of Reps.
So I guess Bishop's claim might be regarding PAC money. Still, it's commendable.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Wait, so the Democratic politician who stood up to end this ridiculous program meant to move US jobs overseas is the bad guy?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that you're planning to vote for Mitt Romney.
What about the Republican Congressman Walter Jones (R-N.C.), that co-wrote the letter? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you probably think the Democrats are the good guys, despite the fact that Obama nominated an RIAA shill [slashdot.org] to be solicitor general. I don't think it's Democrats vs Republicans as much as it is politicians and their friends vs us.
Re: (Score:2)
He's a good guy too, in this case. Just nowhere near as good as Tim Bishop, who is one of our best congressmen, as far as I can tell. How many Republican congressmen don't take corporate money, for example?
No, it's corporations vs a democratic republic. Politicians are just a representative sample of the population.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean THIS [maplight.org] Tim Bishop?
Top 10 Interests Funding
Interest Contributions
Lawyers/Law Firms $174,015
Transportation Unions $164,750
Education $140,600
Securities & Investment $132,800
Public Sector Unions $115,000
Health Professionals $102,825
Building Trade Unions $75,250
Real Estate $67,450
Industrial Unions $59,050
Abortion Policy/Pro-Choice $52,900
Also from the same site, he took $18,000 from New York Life and $16,450 from Estee Lauder Companies. So, yeah, he does take corporate money.
But as for the unions, that's over half a million dollars from unions alone. Unions are his biggest contributor by far. Surely, a man as pure as Bishop couldn't be affected by money. He's not corrupt enough to be bribed by these people right?
How does Tim Bishop feel about Card-Check? Does he feel that unions leaders should know how you vote
Re: (Score:3)
You may not realize it, but that site (and indeed most government reporting) combines payments from corporations with payments from individuals employed at those corporations. This is generally good, otherwise owners could just bonus themselves and then fund "anonymously" rather than have their companies make donations, but bad in that it blurs that line. Arguably, however, there is no valid way to un-blur it. Its the same data that's used by people who don't do any digging to complain about companies ma
Re: (Score:2)
He took money from individuals who work for those companies.
So if I donate to a candidate, it shows up as a contribution from the Chicago Bulls. ;)
He's in favor of Card-Check. That's why I said he's "pro-prosperity". Tim Bishop is moderate to liberal. We've had years of attacks on unions and look at where were at today. The
Re: (Score:3)
He's in favor of Card-Check. That's why I said he's "pro-prosperity". Tim Bishop is moderate to liberal. We've had years of attacks on unions and look at where were at today. The organized labor movement is inextricably tied to the middle class. When one does better the other does better and vice versa. It is as close to a natural law as you will find in economics.
Let's not confuse a union election and card-check. I have no problems with employees wanting to unionize. It becomes a problem when workers must state publicly whether or not they want to join a union. I don't want the union or my employer knowing how I choose. First, my employer could target me for voting for a union, and I'm sure you'll agree with that part. It's the union knowing how I vote that I don't like. There are laws protecting me from my employer. There are not so many laws protecting me f
Re: (Score:2)
I'm betting that you know exactly why Card Check has become necessary: Because there has been widespread intimidation by management. No such intimidation from unions.
There is nothing that can be completed through Card Check that can not be accomplished through a private ballot election. Just as employers should not know how each individual worker voted, the unions should not know either. You say there is no union intimidation? Here [youtube.com] is a video of workers claiming that union members went to workers' homes and harassed them.
My grandfather used to show me the creases on top of his head from when he was in the railroad union and corporate thugs would commonly attack union workers and organizers. These guys fought and many died so that you could have a weekend, sick days, maybe a vacation once in a while. So that you could have safe working conditions. And even if you aren't a regular employee, if you're a contractor or, what's the word...consultant then you're still enjoying the benefits of unions.
I'll grant that unions have their place and serve(d) a valuable purpose, but should be limits to the unions' power. Just as you are worried about m
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Americans won't work for 50 cents an hour, no benefits, no bathroom break. Convince the government to pay for the English lessons, and bam, pure uncut profit.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Tell me exactly why it is our responsibility to find ways to assist developing regions. There are americans that would love call center work. It beats a lot of other bad jobs.
The problem you are missing is that lovely thing called capitalism. You see, if I own a call centre with 100 customers, and I employ 100 staff to operate the phones, I pay the going rate. Lets say it is $10 for nice round numbers. So, I pay $1000 a year in wages. Now, I work out that I can invest $200 and train some chaps in some cheap labour country - like the Phillipines - and then pay them $500 to do the same work. So, I invest that $200, get the training done and the following year, my wages have gone down and I can say that in the first year, I made an extra $300 profit, and every year after that, I make $500 extra profit.
Of course, that paints a pretty worrying picture from a wider view as that means that instead of $1000 being paid to local workers, $500 is being shipped out of the economy and into another country, but not many people want to look from that angle when it impacts their own profit margins.
This sort of thing only works long term if you can get that $500 back from the other country by getting them to buy your goods with the money you give them so that the cash stays local. How is the US Balance of Trade [wikipedia.org] these days you ask? Take a look for yourself.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Except it isn't capitalism when the government is spending tax dollars on it, so your example is flawed. Yes, yes I know government is in the pocket of corporations but since you decided to talk economic theory I had to point that out. Real capitalism would have companies who wanted to outsource funding the training.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
It we are talking theory, lets throw in some game theory. A clever capitalist would spend a fraction of the cost of all the training on lobbying and then have the government foot the bill while making use of the facility to train his new outsourced workers.
Re: (Score:1)
That's crony capitalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because when they fail at developing in a way that produces legitimate exports, they instead develop in a way that produces, for instance, narcotics and terrorists as their exports.
Which, humanitarian concerns aside, also has adverse effects on the US economy.
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
Because when they fail at developing in a way that produces legitimate exports, they instead develop in a way that produces, for instance, narcotics and terrorists as their exports.
So it's a big protection racket? At least you're honest.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I've yet to see any evidence that education does, on either addiction per se or drug use more generally (the studies I've seen of particular popular anti-drug education efforts have shown no measurable anti-drug effect, most notably, the incredibly visible Drug Abuse Resistance Education (D.A.R.E.) program has been studied and found to have no dete
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Tobacco consumption. Rates are way down in N.A. and Europe, as a result of a combination of education (cigarette packaging) and measured restrictions (limited advertising, no smoking in enclosed shared/public places - justified based on secondary effects).
Re: (Score:2)
Because when they fail at developing in a way that produces legitimate exports, they instead develop in a way that produces, for instance, narcotics and terrorists as their exports.
We only have to worry about narcotics and terrorists if we import them. It takes two. We're trying harder and harder to import terrorists all the time by shitting on other countries, that's our foreign policy, so that's what you're talking about here. But it's our failed drug policy that results in drug imports. No amount of shitting on other countries causes us to import drugs. That happens because we're shitting on ourselves.
Re: (Score:2)
This is clearly true for narcotics (which is, though often brutally so, mostly a rational business.) It less so for terrorists (which notably are not.)
I would argue that development efforts like those conducted by USAID are exactly the opposite -- they are directed at both the supply side of terrorism (b
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, whoop de doo, a few paltry dollars (overall) compared to the billions we spend bombing people, or the economic fallout from our assassinations, which we're stepping up.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Tell me exactly why it is our responsibility to find ways to assist developing regions. There are americans that would love call center work. It beats a lot of other bad jobs.
Well in regards to the Philippines in particular there is the rather ugly history of America buying the islands of Spain and then invading them, crushing the Philippines independence movement and ruling them as a colonial power for about 50 years. So you could say there is some moral responsibility there.
For aid in general there are 3 good self interest arguments.
1. Economics: There are more people in Pakistan than Japan or Germany but wanna guess which ones America trades more with? Germany and Japan of course with trade volumes many times greater than American trade with Pakistan. The wealth of those two countries has created enormous new markets for American products. Yes trade involves job losses but the point is that the opportunities created outstrip the losses.
2. Security: Poor undeveloped countries cause security problems. Look at Somalia. If you can it's better to spend some money helping them develop rather than having to continuously deal with the security problems that you otherwise get.
3. Security 2: Aid is the act of buying allies. If the West isn't going to buy then others (China, Russia, Iran) might just step in.
Aside from self interest developed countries giving aid to developing countries has been a long standing principal. In terms of aid per capita the US gives quite generously but it is by no means the most generous. From memory the U.K is the biggest giver per capita. Aid programs like this are simply keeping the US in line with other developed countries in giving aid.
Re: (Score:2)
Of course Japan and Germany trade more with us, they're developed! They were both highly developed
Re: (Score:2)
Mutually Beneficial Trades makes more effective, profitable and longterm alliances than indiscriminant handouts ever will. France and Germany defended Iraq up to the US invasion, trying to stop it, because of the trade they did with Saddam.
Well, and the fact that the justifications used for the invasion (WMD, 9/11) had no basis in fact. But yeah, it was all because of trade.
Re: (Score:2)
if you don't think it was primarily trade, I would think you are being naive. Trade trumps all. As I recall, France was the only western power to recognize the Taliban [afghanista...center.com] (before 9/11). Even the news briefs of the time had france saying ''yeah, their treatment of women and other cultures is abhorrent but we really want to pipe oil through that region'.
Russia's stonewalling of the nuclear monitoring in Iran had everything to do w/ their trade. France/Germany may have had some concern about being drawn into
Re: (Score:2)
Of course Japan and Germany trade more with us, they're developed! They were both highly developed nations before they ever got a dollar of aid from us. China was somewhat in the 1930s before Japan went in.
Post-WWII the U.S. gave huge amounts of aid to Europe including Germany. Later on the US went through an economic boom in part selling stuff to Europe to help it rebuild. Japan was less lucky initially. Post-WWII they were desperately poor, with wide spread food shortages and so on. However come the Kor
Re: (Score:2)
My socks are made in Pakistan. Super soft too. If they made more textiles, i'd buy them!
Re: (Score:3)
Those who don't know history...
From the beginning of the occupation, the USA was ignoring the philippino rebels and started clahes with them. The main revolutionary leaders that had fought the Spanish were killed by the US Army. The USA converted Philippinas in a colony, the same way Spain had (including government appointed military governors).
After WWII, ships were no longer using carbon so there was less necessity of a refuelling station in Manila to project the US Navy power in the Far East (and also Ja
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
Tell me exactly why it is our responsibility to find ways to assist developing regions.
Because a rising tide floats all boats. In this case I'd much rather have filipinos learn to speak american standard english than something like learning to speak chinese because the long-term effects are good for the USA in general.
There are americans that would love call center work. It beats a lot of other bad jobs.
The same argument can be made for any job at all and maybe that's how you feel too. However, not all of us see the world economy as a zero-sum game.
Re:rising tide floats all boats (Score:3)
Ooh, a nice argument.
I'm not being cynical - "better a Filipino speak fluent English than Chinese" - it's a nice theory.
All that we have to navigate is the local tactics of "Filipinos work for $2 an hour" long enough for those boats to rise on the tide.
It's a VERY tough game.
Re:rising tide floats all boats (Score:5, Informative)
I was considering out-sourcing some work to the Philippines (from a non-American territory, for an international aid organization) and ISTR the going rate for educated Filipinos was ~ $1300/month. It was more expensive than India (again, going by memory, $1000/month) but the Philippines were closer and they have much better infrastructure and English skills.
Re: (Score:3)
Jeez, at those rates you can get Europeans too. They're closer to timezonewise to the West as well.
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure how you were modded like that? It's a decent point and certainly not a troll.
Re: (Score:3)
The more you help people with your brand, the more they will be imprinted with liking you no matter what.
So you see many parts of the world reaching out to offer aid even when they are in need of aid.
Vietnam, China, East Germany gave farm aid and advice, Taiwan does at lot of great work too. Then you have the classics of the UK, USA and Soviet Union.
Why the aid? If they help the grand parents with simple work, their children might get b
Re: (Score:2)
Tell me exactly why it is our responsibility to find ways to assist developing regions. There are americans that would love call center work. It beats a lot of other bad jobs.
However... do to the cost of workforce (wages), it is not going to happen.
The most plausible outcome is that you'll still be answered by an phillipino support person, except it will be an untrained one (to be fair... maybe it will be trained, but won't be trained on US taxpayers money).
Re: (Score:2)
"it will be trained"
Seriously.. 'it'?
Re: (Score:2)
Just because you're not responsible doesn't mean its not the right thing to do.
Re: (Score:2)
His own kids are likely not starving. The USA has no starvation deaths, unless from deliberate abuse.
Re: (Score:2)
Well it should be a US responsibility, because the US is an extremely rich country. If there are no better jobs in the US than staffing call centers, then something is going very wrong and that needs to be addressed within the US. Having low-level workers fight over scraps is not an acceptable situation.
Capitalism is fine as long as it provides reasonable opportunities for basically everyone (of course some people can't be helped, that's understood). If capitalism does not manage to provide that, then it n
Re: (Score:2)
You know...a rich country, like a wealthy person, doesn't get that way or stay that way, by spending needlessly, or giving it all away.
Re: (Score:2)
There are americans that would love call center work. It beats a lot of other bad jobs.
You obviously never worked in a call center before. It doesn't have a high rotation for nothing. Angry customers, toilet breaks, lousy wages, depression, et c.
Re: (Score:2)
Still beats working in a field.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh boy, I thought I had suppressed those memories. It's an awful and tedious place to work, I grant you that. Maybe not so much with flowers, but lettuces and strawberries were boring as hell.
Still, even if I hate those past days, I can say I produced something of real, unquestionable value. Anecdotally, all the girls I dated liked that, even though I'm an engineer, I had a menial job once.
Won't Work (Score:1)
Any company willing to ship their American/English tech support to a non-English native country is going to do so whether or not the American government helps the people there learn english. If this program made the Philippines a more attractive place to outsource to, so what? If not there, then there are plenty of english speakers in other countries willing to do the job.
I called tech support. (Score:4, Funny)
I called tech support for black box router #5. I ended up talking to someone in a call center in the Bronx.
After about 5 minutes of not being able to understand them I asked to be transfered to India so I could understand them better and get my problem resolved.
Thank you I'll be here all this century.
Re: (Score:2)
'ey, watch it with my borough, buddy!
(Seriously, the differences between calls to the US and abroad can be stark. I won't name names, but from experience the voices on the other end of credit card activation numbers can differ heavily with the issuer--the difference between a clear and even pleasant conversation, and "excuse me? Wuzzat?".)
Unclear (Score:2)
Without knowing more than the very limited information in TFA it's hard to say for sure what the situation really is. That said, these programs are being misused if the allegations are true. But if true, it isn't exactly the worst fraud being perpetrated on US tax payers. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed now that it has come to light.
Still strange that with all the big fish to fry government has focused on something relatively minor like this.
Re: (Score:1)
Still strange that with all the big fish to fry government has focused on something relatively minor like this.
Lets see... Scores points with people who don't like specific minority groups, who don't like paying taxes and then seeing those taxes wasted / exploited / spent on non-American people, and of course with the they took our jobs sect. Also gives them some "we're doing stuff!" credit!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't care (Score:4, Funny)
I don't care about your stupid JEEP program. I drive a Mazda.
wtf (Score:2, Insightful)
Bishop says that USAID needs to find ways to assist developing regions without compromising the jobs of U.S. call center workers"
Does our esteemed congress critter realize we conquered the Philipines, and for awhile owned it after WWII? This isn't like offering education programs in Iraq; Some of them are still legally US citizens. We destroyed their infrastructure -- the least we can do is help these people improve their economic infrastructure, of which literacy is an excellent first step. The issue of corporations outsourcing to this country is a separate problem, and one that will not be solved by plunging these people back into
Re:wtf (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, and just 'P.S.', the philipines right now is experiencing a rise in extremism amongst its muslim population due to high unemployment and low literacy; this program was enacted specifically to address that problem as an informal 'thank you' to that country for being a major supporter of our anti-terrorism efforts after 9/11, particularly in Iraq. So you could say with a straight face that Bishop is supporting terrorism in order to garner more votes in this election. Sick, isn't it?
Even if that were true, then why should we spend those dollars educating them specifically to take US jobs? If we're going to give them education aid, why not put that money towards general education? Why not educate them to be productive without specifically taking away American jobs?
Re: (Score:3)
Oh, and just 'P.S.', the philipines right now is experiencing a rise in extremism amongst its muslim population due to high unemployment and low literacy; this program was enacted specifically to address that problem as an informal 'thank you' to that country for being a major supporter of our anti-terrorism efforts after 9/11, particularly in Iraq. So you could say with a straight face that Bishop is supporting terrorism in order to garner more votes in this election. Sick, isn't it?
Erm, no.
Groups like Abu Sayaaf and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF, no joke) has been around since the 70's. In fact there's been a marked decline in terrorism since the establishment of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao (where all those evil mooslims live right). Most of the bombs in the last few years have in fact been inside the ARMM or at least in the surrounding provinces of Mindanao.
But nice try using the old "Terr'ism" bogeyman.
The biggest problem coming out of Muslim Mindanao
Re: (Score:2)
Re:wtf (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Wow, another slashdotter who knows some history. I'm impressed.
It should also be remembered that Douglas MacArthur was, in the period leading up to WW2, NOT a US Army General, but a Field Marshal in the Philippine Army. His US Army rank was reactivated at the beginning of the war in the Pacific.
Which put him in the odd position of being junior to General Marshall, who was a colonel when MacArthur was Chief of Staff of the US Army (the position Marshall held in WW2), while at the same time outranking him
Re: (Score:2)
General Marshall
Any relation to Major Major?
Re: (Score:2)
Your version of the Philippines' history is laughably wrong.
No, it's actually spot-on, and now I must insist that you provide citations for any 'facts' you present.
We gained ownership of the islands around the turn of the century, not by the war as you imply.
Umm, no -- you lost [state.gov] at exactly the turn of the century -- the philipine/american war was from 1899â"1902, and we won. You were owned by the US until the Treaty of Manila in 1946. You may recall that within that 44 year time period, both world wars happened. The islands were occupied by japanese forces during WWII, true enough -- but less than a year after the war ended and we'd licked our wounds, w
facts or slants (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Misunderstanding perhaps, since I was supplying a reference which supported your informative comment. Tofof calling your version of the Philippines' history "laughably wrong" is itself laughably, or rather sadly, misinformed.
Re: (Score:2)
Modern health care system? The US still doesn't have one!
Re: (Score:2)
We destroyed their infrastructure -- the least we can do is help these people improve their economic infrastructure
IIRC, we liberated the Philippines from Japanese occupation and if you know anything about how the Japanese, during WWII, treated non-Japanese you'll agree that that was a good thing. A lot of Allied blood was spilled doing this. And yes, it was in our interests. It was in the world's interest.
I'm all for helping other nations but I think we should help ourselves first. It's only when we set a successful example will other countries want to follow that example.
Re: (Score:2)
The US public is starting to not really give a shit what other countries are doing. They want every penny handed out in Foreign aid to be used domestically. It won't solve many problems in the US because the dollar amounts are a relatively small percentage of the government budget but even small amounts are better than none. The US government should not be isolationist, instead it should establish and pursue a strict amoral policy methodology when interacting with foreign countries. Any political, military,
Not a zero sum game (Score:1)
Politicians love to use the hot-button topic of oursourcing to pretend like this is a zero-sum game. i.e. a job outsourced is a job lost domestically. Americans have to choose: Do you want your companies to have access to cheap callcenters so you can grow your core business and create more jobs, or do you want to pay high local callcenter rates just so you can brag that "we buy american", while possibly stiffling growth.
Re: (Score:2)
WAAAAyyyyy back before computers, companies used to support massive rooms full of people crunching numbers AND a local call center and yet they managed to grow and prosper. Probably because there were plenty of well employed customers who could afford their products. The claim of 'needing' cheap labor to grow business is just as much nonsense.
I'm all for helping other countries develop their economies, but that's not what's happening. It's just a bunch of rich corporations pocketing the difference between e
Looking at this another way... (Score:3)
"LET'S PROTECT AMERICAN JOBS" is just fine, but remember that this is seen as a way toward 2 positives: 1) Offer the Filipinos something worthwhile and valuable to them and 2) reduce the power of extremists in their own territory.
So instead of jerking my knees around, I'd rather see numbers that show how much this costs vs. how many jobs it is "stealing" vs. how much protection the Filipinos and U.S. interests abroad / at home are benefiting from it. And if we cut those funds, where will they really go next?
What crud: (Score:5, Insightful)
This just means that more of the work will go to Luzon where they have more english speakers and better infrastructure.
Creating jobs in Mindanao to help with many of the endemic problems there is a good thing (tm).
It's unlikely that any jobs that would have been outsourced to Mindanao would have stayed in the US anyway. They would have ended up in other places in the Philipines or in Bangalore India or $english_capable_low_cost_location.
(Engage rant mode:)
Bishop is a Democrat and Jones is a Republican, so this is a bipartisan shortsightedness. But it'll get them votes in the short run and that's the truly important thing.
Hey, I'm sure the Moro Islamic Liberation Front approves. Poverty and ignorance is great for maintaining low level wars.
Better not teach them any other skills either. They might do something that would compete with the US in areas that wouldn't be outsourced. We could just make the spreading of ignorance the cornerstone of our foreign policy. What a concept.
Slashdotters are great at talking about how little others know about world politics and how the problems facing other societies end up on your own doorstep. Maybe some of them should take their own advice.
Re: (Score:2)
Improved English diction for phone s{c,p}ammers? (Score:2)
When I was at home during the day over the Christmas holiday period, a number of the "hello, this is the technical support centre, your Microsoft Windows computer has a virus [so please install our trojan software to remove the bogus virus, you chump]" scam callers had an accent that sounded Filipino to me, and spoke pretty clearly compared to the Indian accented callers I had heard before. Perhaps I was experiencing the benefits of US-funded English training in the Phillipines.
NB: This is not any racist re
wait what? (Score:2)
The companies who run those call centers should be forced to pay back every penny. Why would the US willingly spend tax dollars to outsource jobs?
blind (Score:2)
Really? Why? (Score:2)
"Bishop says that USAID needs to find ways to assist developing regions without compromising the jobs of U.S. call center workers"
*sigh* Insert your image of plantation owners and whips as you see fit.
Yeha, lets not look at (Score:2)
why we were doing this, or the benefits, or long term impact.
Lets just see the headline and freak out.
Re: (Score:1)
Boohoo, 1%ers whining about the free market then whining when we suggest that the tax money they refuse to pay not go towards training Filipinos.
I guess having the 99% pay your training cost is the "free" part of the free market.
Re: (Score:2)
1%ers whining about the free market then whining when we suggest that the tax money they refuse to pay not go towards training Filipinos.
Where in any of the linked articles does it say that?
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
Just for grins, do a bit of research to find out just how much taxes that 1% actually pays. You'll be surprised (hint - average, according to this [taxfoundation.org] is in the range of 20% of income. the top 0.1% is the Buffett group, paying about 8% of gross income.). The bottom 50% pay about 12% of their income - but almost 4/5 of that group actually gets subsidies back from the gov that exceed their tax payments for a net negative payment for that group.
The top 1% of income earners in the US pay about 40% of the total
Re: (Score:2)
Just for grins, do a bit of research to find out just how much taxes that 1% actually pays.
Aren't corporation also "persons"? Why did you let them [slashdot.org] out of the picture?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I did mention this:
We also have the highest corporate tax rates in the world, ameliorated slightly by the plethora of silly loopholes and exceptions, that keep a million or so accountants busy.
Stuff like the gasohol subsidy - basically welfare for Cargill and ADM are good examples of bad ideas. In fact, using tax policy and subsidies for social engineering are bad ideas in general IMHO.
I'll just add that, if the Health and Human Services dept. were a 501(c)3 charity, the entire management would go to jail for corrupt practices. Their cost of administration compared to what actually gets to the street is abominable. And having worked for an independent social service a
Re:Boohoo (Score:4, Insightful)
No. It's Americans complaining that we are being taxed so that some local fatcat business owner can get an even sweeter deal offshoring jobs. The fatcat is welcome to save money by offshoring and anyone is welcome to compete for the jobs (even at insanely low wages), but neither is entitled to use taxpayer dollars to do so. Choosing to not send your money to your competitors is not racist -- it's common fucking sense.
Re:Boohoo (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice that they feel so strongly about it that they posted anonymous.
Re: (Score:1)
If someone needs to play the race card, he/she has already lost.
Re: (Score:2)
time for an extension to Godwin's Law?
Re: (Score:2)
Really, 9 times out of 10 now I instantly discount anyone that brings race as either a flamebaiter or someone that uses it as a crutch for their own short comings.
I like your statement. Here is why: If racism were as common or as institutionalized as it was earlier in this nation's history, say 1950s, then 9 times out of 10, you would not be discounting claims of racism so casually.
Not a perfect state of affairs but certainly an improvement. :) Go go gadget rational thought processes.
Re: (Score:2)
not that I don't agree with you, but part of the problem is the customers. people are idiots, which would be fine but they are also self entitled assholes about it. i've never worked in a call center but i have worked in a retail environment in the past and hated dealing with the phones for that very reason.
reading scripts for support type things is the devil though...