Judge Rules Takedown of Pirate Party General Proxy Illegal 74
CAPSLOCK2000 writes "The Dutch Pirate Party (PPNL) just won a court-case against BREIN. Last week BREIN got a court to issue an emergency order to take down a reverse-proxy to The Pirate Bay. The next day BREIN claimed the court order also included a generic proxy also ran by PPNL and any other service that might lead to TPB (aka hyperlinks). PPNL responded with an emergency lawsuit of their own, asking for a literal interpretation of the verdict instead of BREIN's broad reading. The judge acknowledged the narrow interpretation of the verdict. proxy.piratenpartij.nl stays up and tpb.piratenpartij.nl now sports a list of other ways to reach The Pirate Bay. Due to the Streisand effect this list has grown to a considerable length. Noteworthy is that The Pirate Party got favorable verdict in a single day, a first in Dutch law."
Full verdict (in Dutch). This is only a temporary order by the judge to keep the general-purpose proxy run by the Pirate Party and the list of alternative proxies to the Pirate Bay online. A full case hearing is expected on April 24th.
Is there more to say? (Score:5, Informative)
I think it is enough to say, "Good."
Re:Is there more to say? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh I agree, but for the time being we just have to put up with BREIN.
Re:Is there more to say? (Score:5, Insightful)
Of all the times to be out of mod points...
The world will be a better place when the MAFIAA is gone. They're a relic from a time when an artist required a middleman to get their art to the masses, and internet has made them largely unnecessary.
I have as much sympathy for them as the first automobile owners had for the harrier. It's progress, baby...
Dinosaurs (Score:5, Insightful)
Gnash and roar loudly as they sink into the tar pits.
They may hurt teh interwebs [varsity.co.uk] on their way down, but their efforts are futile; culture will never again be produced by the few and consumed only by everyone else.
(BTW, Lessig has a great Ted Talk about how everyone is a content producer now [ted.com].)
Perhaps the MAFIAA think they can turn back the clock because they suffer from Dunning-Kruger [wikipedia.org]? Either way, they need to die and die soon so the rest of us can get on with making badass remixes and fanfic.
Re:Dinosaurs (Score:4, Insightful)
Or not, I think we are at a breaking point in history where it could go either way.
On the one hand, more and more alternative sources of content have arisen. People spend a lot of their time doing things other than watching movies and television. Social media and user generated content is growing strong, and together with that, advances in technology are making encrypted darknets more and more feasible. Piracy is ubiquitous in the third world and the MAFIAA and RIAA are almost uniformly hated by everyone who knows who they are and what they do, except the people who directly benefit from them. The rejection of SOPA/PIPA marked an historical event where a huge mass of people aligned to make an International protest that effectively stopped a horrible set of laws from being enacted.
However, modern versions of Windows, as well as Android and iOS are getting increasingly draconian. We now have hardware that can't dual boot and extensive DRM support in both software and hardware. Videogame consoles are becoming just encrypted hard drives where "content" is rented in smaller and smaller pieces to milk as much possible from the gamers. Each day more and more people are surrendering more of their live to "the cloud" and the cloud is getting more and more aggressive about what it can do with your information. It is quite possible that we are heading to a new dark age where all computers are nothing but telescreens out of the control of their users. Sure, you will always be able to install ubuntu/mint/debian on your devices, if you want to, but if you install the distro of your choice, the DRM won't work, you won't be able to watch the movies youpaid for, your hacked phone won't connect to the VOIP service of your choice, maybe your ISP will deny you service for using a "rouge OS" known to enable piracy and terrorism. Hell, maybe you won't even be able to see your friends' pictures on facebook once facebooks makes a mandatory app for accessing pictures, obviously a security feature against Child Porn and also send them to the printer with cute virtual stickers and BTW it is the *only* way to print them, on your printer which also refuses to work without DRM and can only be used with the factory approved OS.
It really could go both ways at this point.
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Argument from incredulity appears to not apply here, as you don't fall into that group. Can we get a ruling from the jury?
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These people are nothing but anti-civilization types. Why would anyone educated person think this kind of garbage is good?
Agreed, civilization would be improved by the absence of BREIN and its ilk. I suspect that most educated persons look forward to that happy day, and hope it will arrive soon.
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Re:Is there more to say? (Score:5, Insightful)
How about we hold people liable when we discover they actually violate a particular copyright, rather than trying to extent tort coverage to criminal concepts like "aiding and abetting". Seriously.
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Tort is a common law concept. Does it even apply to the Netherlands?
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Because in some jurisdictions, which at least until a few years ago consist of the entire world except the US and a hand full of puppet states, distributing a copyrighted work for personal use without the copyright holder's authorization is perfectly legal, and it is so very legal to the point that it is even expl
For example (Score:2)
Because in some jurisdictions, which at least until a few years ago consist of the entire world except the US and a hand full of puppet states, distributing a copyrighted work for personal use without the copyright holder's authorization is perfectly legal, and it is so very legal to the point that it is even explicitly authorized in the copyright code. So, these copyright trolls can't touch the people covered by those jurisdictions, and hence they are free to distribute any copyrighted work as they see fit.
One example being Finland, where a levy [hyvitysmaksu.fi] is charged on blank media (CDs, DVDs, USB sticks, fixed disks, etc.) to compensate rights holders, with a proportion going to those representing local producers [hyvitysmaksu.fi] (about 2½ M euro out of 6 M euro collected in 2010). In return, Finns are allowed to legally copy any media [hyvitysmaksu.fi] they want for personal use, including CDs or DVDs borrowed from public libraries or from friends.
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Because then there will still be outrage? Or did we already forget about Capitol v. Thomas?
She was actually being held liable.
But how dare the big companies come down on an individual, whose only 'crime' was to promote their dreck by sharing it with others?
And how dare they file for millions, thousands, or even hundreds when that dreck costs $0.99 a piece in the iTunes store, and in reality the real damages are neg
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Piracy is fast becoming a civic duty (Score:5, Insightful)
Not piracy (Score:2)
But the creation and distribution of media with a Creative Commons (or similar) license.
Re:Not piracy (Score:4, Insightful)
Now see there's the problem. That won't help you. These organisations have been able to buy laws that in a lot of countries demand you pay them even if you are not listed with any of their organisations and wrote the music yourself. It's the corruption that's involved with these companies not just music that's the issue.
Re:Not piracy (Score:5, Interesting)
So there's only copyright law? (Score:1)
Or is it that copyright law is merely one small segment of law?
How about this: the copyright owners have, by their abuse of the quid-pro-quo of copy right law when it comes to paying their part of the bargain, have shown their disregard for the law. Your snide is mis-aimed
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Sorry but that strikes me as just more rationalization to be able to take what you want without paying for it. You can give your own music (or anything else) away for free and no one can stop you. You can even sell it and no one can stop you from doing that either.
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Yes, I can give away my music for free. But why the hell should I pay the MAFIAA for that? I think you're the one rationalizing and justifying what they're doing. Try it for yourself: record an album and then try to get CD's replicated and printed by a professional service without paying the MAFIAA. Maybe it's possible in the US, but not here in NL last time I checked. Or sell your album as a small artist and try to get money back from them. It's not possible because as a small artist, you'll never reach th
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Pirating is illegal.
Law isn't always right. Also, illegal where?
It is wrong.
In your opinion.
There is no justification
In your opinion.
for taking
If "taking" is defined as "copying," that fits.
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Pirating is illegal.
Law isn't always right. Also, illegal where?
Do you need law to tell you what is right? Is taking something from someone else just because you can right?
It is wrong.
In your opinion.
Certainly
There is no justification
In your opinion.
for taking
If "taking" is defined as "copying," that fits.
So I can take pictures of you and your family and you wouldn't mind what I do with them then? Certainly that's just copying.
Should all of the research and development into everything be unprotected then, as copying the results is only copying?
What do you do for work? Would you mind if someone took the output of your work and gave it away for free?
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Do you need law to tell you what is right? Is taking something from someone else just because you can right?
What? You're the one who mentioning that it was illegal, not me. You're the one who brought up laws.
So I can take pictures of you and your family and you wouldn't mind what I do with them then? Certainly that's just copying.
As soon as I objected to something you said, you instantly assumed that I was anti-copyright. I don't have to be anti-copyright to disagree with some of the things you say, you know. I don't even have to be anti-copyright to say it's, in fact, copying.
If you can manage to get the pictures, yes. Don't expect me to make that easy for you, though.
Should all of the research and development into everything be unprotected then, as copying the results is only copying?
Sure.
What do you do for work? Would you mind if someone took the output of your work and gave it away for free?
Don't know how that would be possible.
Har! Har! (Score:1)
The Netherlands is important because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The Netherlands is important because... (Score:4, Informative)
The problem is not whether or not people believe in individual freedoms and rights. The problem is that the consequences of BREIN's actions are hard to explain, while BREIN's motives sound good to the layman (protecting creativity and all that).
I think the Dutch are spoiled in a way. We grew up knowing that are freedoms were taken care of by politicians, the media and the judicial system. Now that certain freedoms are being questioned, we don't know how to interpret the issues, let alone how to respond to them.
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The problem is that the consequences of BREIN's actions are hard to explain, while BREIN's motives sound good to the layman (protecting creativity and all that).
Excuse me? The layman in the Netherlands thinks BREIN are a pain in the ***, shutting down websites, proxies, making it difficult to legally (according to Dutch law) download music and movies. So, which motives do you have in mind?
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BREIN's stated mission:
may not be what you or I agree with, but to many people it sounds like a reasonable idea.
In my experience the attempts to shut down filesharing sites are seen as annoying and as something that makes it a b
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BREIN's stated mission:
Again? - They STILL try to make filesharing into stealing and theft?
That unique 'bundling of forces' sure don't know much about the law it seems. Okay, once more for the daft and retarded: Stealing and theft refers to the illegal transfer of possession of an item or resource. It is characterized as as a transfer, i.e. someone (the victim) loses the item or resource as the thief gains it.
If you make a copy of the Mona Lisa, the Louvre doesn't end up with a empty space on its wall, and whatever you do with th
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If you make a copy of the Mona Lisa, the Louvre doesn't end up with a empty space on its wall, and whatever you do with that copy can result in a number of possible criminal charges being brought against you, but stealing the painting is NOT one of them. After all, it's still there - in the Louvre.
You stole its... uh... uniqueness? No, wait, you would need to take that for yourself in order for it to truly be called stealing, and you can't steal uniqueness. Uh... I give up.
It's theft because I said so! The debate is over. I won.
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The country is too freedom-loving by nature...
That sounds awfully familiar somehow.
Re:The Netherlands is important because... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re:The Netherlands is important because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Same with the USA.
You think so? TSA, Guantanamo, over a decade of poorly-justified wars, attempts to stigmatize abortion through law, the steady lowering of the maximum legal BAC, the so-called "war on drugs", the extremely large prison population including the rise of a for-profit industry with the purpose of imprisoning minors, metal detectors in schools, the rise of the surveillance state, the growing wealth imbalance aided by law, on and on... we claim to love individual rights, but I would not want to have to defend our actions of the last decade or so in a court of my peers. It would be easy to defend the statements that the US loves business and the US loves money, though; I think freedom is in third place here, at best.
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.."over a decade" of poorly-justified wars?
The US started trying to implement its policies on other countries via war in 1798 (the "Quasi-War", q.v. the role of the Marines in the Dominican Republic at that time) and has been continuously active in doing so since. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations )
Our own textbooks given to children admit the Spanish-American war was founded on a lie. Vietnam was triggered by Henry Kissinger telling tales to the South Vietnamese,
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It would be easy to defend the statements that the US loves business and the US loves money, though; I think freedom is in third place here, at best.
I'd say it's at least fourth place; you forgot safety.
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True for the USA, but not for the Netherlands. The Netherlands have little power over the non-democratic elected officials of the European Union government (in other words, the peoples of Europe have no power to elect the ones with power in the EU government)
- The European Parliament has one of the most democratic elections I can think of: proportional and with a large number of Europe-wide parties.
- Local state legislation has an influence on the long term on the European people and the European governance, even if it does not apply to the other member states (and in some cases, fortunately).
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What about member states being able to devalue themselves to recoup from economic crisis issues (a recent example of this exact scenario working working would be Iceland)... Greece prior to EU legislation could do this, when it's government attempted to do so under the EU, the EU removed the government power of Greece and replaced it with a puppet - The country that created democracy.
They would have been free to do so, had they not joined the moneytary union (via outright deception and forgery, might I add). As it is, I'm all for giving them the boot from the Euro, hell the union even; IMHO we should limit the EU to the Alps as it seems corruption and bad finances are rampant everywhere south from there. But "unjoining" the Euro seems to be difficult, so as they themselves put them in the mess they are in, and they seem to be perfectly incapable of handling the situation themselves, the
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Sadly, what we think or want has no relevance. It doesn't matter what party I vote for in my country, and it probably won't matter for the party you vote for in your country.
Also sadly, I have to concur. Having said that, I'll be voting for the pirates in the next MEP elections - they don't stand a chance currently in the national elections, but hopefully they'll be able to score a seat or two in Brussels. While the party here is also filled with some libertarian loonies I find very hard to tolerate, they seem to be the only party that has any grasp on things digital, which is "relevant to my interests".
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Secret fan (Score:3)
"This is only a temporary order by the judge to keep the general-purpose proxy run by the Pirate Party and the list of alternative proxies to the Pirate Bay online.
Sounds like somebody is a fan of torrents...
Not really (Score:2)
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Well, yeah, they did not want to miss the latest episode of Dowton Abbey, now did they?
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Wait a second.. (Score:2)
Wait a second..
Summary says: "The Dutch Pirate Party (PPNL) just won a court-case against BREIN"
Article says: ".. a temporary court order has been issued. As of now, with the trial pending, the Pirate Party can continue to operate the proxy site."
So the court-case is not won at all and the summary is wrong?
Re:Wait a second.. (Score:4, Insightful)
It may be more accurate to say they won this battle, but the war is not over yet.
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The pirate party was forced to shut down a direct proxy, or so called 'reverse proxy', to TPB website.
They replaced it by a list of open proxies, including url's, and including their own general open proxy.
BREIN, the dutch private organisation, ordered to take the list of URL's and the general proxy down too, with the court order at hand, threatening to collect the $10.000 daily ransom if the PP would not obey.
The PP consequently argued that this was not in line with the court order, and that only their dir
Legality of generic proxies (Score:4, Insightful)
If generic proxies are considered illegal, what's the next step? Outlawing Tor? Clearly shows that there is no middle ground between free speech and full censorship on the net: if you wan't to effectively censor a content, you have to become an authoritarian power yourself.
Re:Legality of generic proxies (Score:5, Informative)
Allready happening. A few weeks ago the Dutch media were portraying TOR as the new Sodom & Gomorra of the Internet. Questions have been asked in parliament about blocking TOR. Ofcourse the media only focus on the downsides of having a truly anonymous network and not on the reasons of building such a network in the first place.
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If it was up to the RIAA/MPAA they would outlaw the internet.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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"the land of the free and the home of the brave" we really mean, the Netherlands, right? i mean first the anders attack which by all indications the entire populous outright refused to be intimidated by at all.
You know the whole Anders Breivik thing happened in Norway, not the Netherlands; right ?
Re:so when we say (Score:4, Funny)
Norway is the capital of the Netherlands, silly.
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