Germany Delays ACTA Signature, Wants More Discussion 72
First time accepted submitter willodotcom writes "Germany has joined Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia in delaying their signing of ACTA, citing 'time to carry out further discussions' as the reason."
Very reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
I never grasped how copyright changes could be considered legally urgent. This doesn't mean the treaty will be blocked(it won't be), but at least Germany is taking their time.
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't put your hopes to high. They are just waiting till the public's attention is elsewhere, e.g. occupied by a soccer cup.
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty much. Further meetings just means "How can we sneak this past the public."
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
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Microsoft is on "their" side because Microsoft has long had an official stance against software piracy, not because they're somehow being suckered into it by the *AA.
Much as I hate the *AA, Microsoft is in this one for their OWN benefit, not someone else's.
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You aren't getting this entirely. Have a look at GoDaddy; they have a long involvement in DNS, which is one of the areas where corruption and politics meets technology. They aren't particularly big and powerful, but they knew enough to find out about the legislation and to know who to talk to to get their own name in there early. They were explicitly listed by name in the legislation so that only they could benefit from exclusions.
The list of people who support ACTA is invitation only. From their ow
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't expect the public attention to drop so soon in Germany. People there are very careful about protection of private data and information. They have a somewhat bad historical background about state lurking into private lives and filtering/accumulating information... and they are not about to forget it. Anything that goes into that direction gets strong opposition - and the stage generally weights in favor of the private life protection.
Now, in Germany, is happening exactly what the copyright lobby feared : people are looking into it. They is a reason why they tried to push it under the table and they failed. Now there is a good chance ACTA never goes through in Germany. And if it doesn't pass in Germany, it loses a lot of interest within the EU.
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Interesting)
ACTA is treated as a "mixed treaty" in the EU, which means that according to the rules of procedure it has to be ratified by the European parliament _and_ all of the national parliaments in order to be valid anywhere. If it doesn't pass in Germany (or some other member state) it doesn't pass anywhere in the EU. At all.
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
Not so sceptical please.
Your democratic checks and balances might be absolutely fucked beyond all hope, to the extent that you live under a corporatocracy, but that isn't the case here.
Besides, the element of surprise is gone. All further attempts are going to be highly scrutinised, and there are countries that will never sign.
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Informative)
The European Parliament (at the top of the food chain) is already deeply suspicious of what the Commision is doing with ACTA and asked them to clean their act up in March of last year.
Some quotes from the report [europa.eu]:
2. Expresses its concern over the lack of a transparent process in the conduct of the ACTA negotiations, a state of affairs at odds with the letter and spirit of the TFEU; is deeply concerned that no legal base was established before the start of the ACTA negotiations and that parliamentary approval for the negotiating mandate was not sought;
3. Calls on the Commission and the Council to grant public and parliamentary access to ACTA negotiation texts and summaries, in accordance with the Treaty and with Regulation (EC) No 1049/2001 of 30 May 2001 regarding public access to European Parliament, Council and Commission documents;
4. Calls on the Commission and the Council to engage proactively with ACTA negotiation partners to rule out any further negotiations which are confidential as a matter of course and to inform Parliament fully and in a timely manner about its initiatives in this regard; expects the Commission to make proposals prior to the next negotiation round in New Zealand in April 2010, to demand that the issue of transparency is put on the agenda of that meeting and to refer the outcome of the negotiation round to Parliament immediately following its conclusion;
5. Stresses that, unless Parliament is immediately and fully informed at all stages of the negotiations, it reserves its right to take suitable action, including bringing a case before the Court of Justice in order to safeguard its prerogatives;
6. Deplores the calculated choice of the parties not to negotiate through well-established international bodies, such as WIPO and WTO, which have established frameworks for public information and consultation;
7. Calls on the Commission to conduct an impact assessment of the implementation of ACTA with regard to fundamental rights and data protection, ongoing EU efforts to harmonise IPR enforcement measures, and e-commerce, prior to any EU agreement on a consolidated ACTA treaty text, and to consult with Parliament in a timely manner about the results of the assessment;
I'm pretty sure the Commission hasn't done any of that, so if the Parliament gets involved again it's doomed. Hopefully this weekend's protests will help get that done.
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Don't put your hopes to high. They are just waiting till the public's attention is elsewhere, e.g. occupied by a soccer cup.
Your open pessimism helps to make it acceptable for politicians to do this.
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Your open pessimism helps to make it acceptable for politicians to do this.
I am afraid, they would do the same, should they catch me jubilating ;-).
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I am afraid, they would do the same, should they catch me jubilating ;-).
Gah, the comma splicing. Be more careful when you use those pointy things!
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My comma density is right for the German i grew up with. This means it is too high when i get in contact with the English language. Locations of my commas are pretty erratic even in my native tongue ;-).
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I am afraid, they would do the same, should they catch me jubilating ;-).
Yes but you are implying that you will accept the legislation as the way politics are.
You are saying that even though you don't like it if they do pass it you will do nothing meaningful about it. Knowing that (some) people have stated they will not protest against the legislation gives politicians more confidence to pass the bill.
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No, my original sentence just intended to say: If we don't replace the current crop of politicians, they will pass ACTA sooner or later. We got a stay for ACTA and not a "nay" ;-).
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Interesting)
It may be a long time until the attention is elsewhere. Right now the German Pirate Party is the one with most popular support, far more than in Sweden. They scored a huge number of seats in Berlin and if it was national election today [wahlrecht.de] they would get anywhere from 4-8% of the votes, there's a 5% threshold but they'd pas it today. Unfortunately it's not election for another year and a half but a long drawn out fight over ACTA is just the thing they need...
Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Informative)
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Hey, thanks! I was just wondering about exactly that.
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Re:Very reasonable (Score:5, Funny)
If they don't act quickly, it's conceivable that Steamboat Willie might be legally distributed to people within the United States. The horror!
Re: (Score:2)
The "C" in ACTA is for "Counterfeiting". If new laws can help reduce the inflow of conterfeit, and often substandard, say car brake parts, or medicines, arriving in Europe then I am for it.
On the other hand if other, more contraversial, measures are piggybacked in on it then that is a different matter.
USA (Score:4, Interesting)
So with the USA's propensity to blackmail other countries into passing legislation they want, what are they going to do when an entire continent rejects this treaty?
Re:USA (Score:5, Funny)
I heard they have some oil in the North Sea ... ;)
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I heard they have some oil in the North Sea ... ;)
Not to mention that France and Britain are confirmed to have weapons of mass destruction... :P
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Sadly they really have them and so the US would never attack. See: North Korea.
Sadly is not the adjective I would use.
China (Score:1)
Think vectors NOT scalars. With the power to stand up to American imperialism, the land of the free will be China this century.
It's a really cool place to live, and nothing I do in my day-to-day life is going to get me into legal trouble. I define this as freedom.
Re:China (Score:4, Insightful)
It's a really cool place to live, and nothing I do in my day-to-day life is going to get me into legal trouble. I define this as freedom.
I prefer this definition by John Dalberg-Acton: "The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities."
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Dostoevsky
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Fyodor_Dostoevsky [wikiquote.org]
The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
But the Acton quote is also correct
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Lord_Acton [wikiquote.org]
The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.
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It's one of the most repressive government on earth, it's in the top 10 of the most corrupt countries, and it is not far from the worst in terms of personnal freedom, tolerance and racism. And the freedom of speech is so great too...
You can get 20 years in jail for 10g of pot in China. So eit
Re: (Score:2)
Are you refering to the 150,000 people the Chinese government employs to censor the web and post propaganda on social networks ?
Or maybe you're refering to the cover-up following the accident on the new high speed train that cost the lives of several hundred people ? A train that was burried along with all the cadavers a mere 36 hours after the accident to make sure no investigation would be possible ?
You're talking about a country where you've never lived an
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Continent? So far it's looking like the entire WORLD.
Even the Canadian Senate is still discussing whether to approve the clauses that violate our 40 year + precedent cases, and with any luck, those odious clauses will be struck or the entire batch of legislation rejected.
The US was very quick to brag about how everyone was "signing on." But now that it's up to the countries involved, those nations are realizing that appeasing the US means pissing off their OWN people and losing the next election.
Fo
Delaying (Score:5, Insightful)
or...
they are merely waiting for the mafiaa to sweeten their payoffs.
I am not aware of any country involved in the inital back-room negotiations that has announced their unequivocal refusal to sign ACTA, full stop.
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Meaning either they're too busy counting how many pitchforks and torches are headed their way.. or... they are merely waiting for the mafiaa to sweeten their payoffs.
I see that not only is the US exporting bad copyright policy, we're exporting cynicism as well.
OK, so... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Did the German government as a whole get to discuss the treaty?
That confirms (Score:2, Interesting)
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Except that Poland beat them to the punch. The timing makes it look like a "me too!" response.
Re:That confirms (Score:4, Informative)
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Slight clarification: Poland already signed the treaty. What normally happens after that is the treaty gets sent to the parliament for ratification - but the government is now trying to back away from it. So it probably won't get ratified, but it's still possible.
Germany, on the other hand, didn't sign the treaty in the first place. It's a subtle difference, but it means that Poland is a little further on the road to ACTA than Germany.
Makes Me Sick (Score:3)
Follow Finland's example (Score:3)
Re:emigrate to where? (Score:5, Informative)
They have a small minority of maybe 5% of right wing nutjobs (but as you are american it is really nothing you can't handle) but other than that it's probably the most democratic place on earth right now.
Just to justify this : reaction of the US government after 9/11 => Patriot act and 2 wars
Reaction of the mayor of Oslo after the shootings this year by far-right terrorrist : "We need even more democracy".
Salaries are great, inequalities are pretty low, social tension is almost inexistant, and the welfare state is rock solid and financed for almost ever by Oil money and the $400 billions Strategic investment Fund the Norvegian governement created with it.
Oh and EVERYBODY speaks english. Literally.
Minor Corrections (Score:2)
It was actually the Prime Minister of Norway that said that. Also the shootings themselves happened in another county far away from Oslo city.
The national budget is financed by income, corporate and sales tax (75%). Sales taxes being the largest contributor. Oil and gas revenue is invested abroad in the SWF, we allow
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IIRC, you need to speak Norwegian to be considered for immigration. Not the most unreasonable of requirements, but too high a bar for some. You may also need to be under 30 or 35, so don't delay too long. (OTOH, it's been a long time since I last checked, so my memories may be faulty, or things may have changed. Check it out yourself if you're serious.)
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For US citizens I don't know, but Norway has a fairly welcoming immigration policy, especially if you have a job there / have qualifications, and I am 100% sure you don't need to speak Bokmal or Nynorsk to emmigrate there (although
1st rule of the war is you don't mention the war (Score:5, Funny)
This has happened before, and it didn't turn out well.
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Hurrrrr-de-durrrr.
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You, sir, made my day!
Not Fair! (Score:2)
German country-wide protests are tomorrow. They are backing up too soon!
Missed (Score:2)
Again have to repeat this - Estonia haven't even signed yet, and they are quite serious have good discussion about ACTA.
I know it's boring to mention countries where government actually work for people, but come on :)
Re: (Score:2)
The minister of justice in Germany is a liberal (I believe the US term for the stance is Libertarian) so I'm not sure whether she's siding with corporate or public interests. She's been a major stumbling stone for various anti-freedom legislation before (e.g. anti-terror laws) so I could realistically see her oppose ACTA out of her own volition if it's really a problem.
Of course I have no idea what prompted that change in stance from the govt, on one hand there was public opposition to ACTA, on the other it
Liberal in Germany (Score:2)
The Literals in Germany only stand for the Liberty of Trade. And perhaps the liberty to exploit your workforce. And finally the electorate have understood that. Currently the FDP are at 3 4 % which means they are below the minimum of 5% needed to be admitted into Office.
See: http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm [wahlrecht.de]
The Party which stands for the liberty of the individual is the Pirate Party which are at 4 8%. Too bad the next election is in 2013 — plenty of time for the FPD to recover and the Pira