Iran Shuts Down US Virtual Embassy 451
bonch writes "Less than 12 hours after the U.S. launched a virtual embassy for Iran, the Iranian government blocked access to the website, directing visitors to a government page proclaiming the site illegal. The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.'"
Yeah, America would never censor a website... (Score:5, Informative)
for political reasons.
Unless it wanted to [nytimes.com], of course.
Re: (Score:2)
We can manufacture rationale for any war, and everybody else is bought off to approve our wars! The UN is the macrocosmic result of rampant greed and riches. We can kill you from hundreds or even thousands of miles away, and your family can't do shit
Pot, meet kettle. (Score:5, Informative)
Laundry list of past attempts -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States
(CDA, COPA, DMCA, COPPA, CIPA, COICA, and my favorite named DOPA.)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So it seems the angle for the comments to this story will be about trying to act super-enlightened by "turning the tables" and criticizing America. This is a very popular route to take on web forums, because the inherent contrarianism of bashing the country you live in is supposed to mean you are smarter than the lesser citizens around you. Since Slashdot is full of really smart people who know everything about the world--especially politics--I look forward to the insightful discussions to come (much of it
censoring political content (Score:2)
Is the issue
Only any idiot would confuse that with censoring anything. EVERY govt will censor something. It is censoring political expression that is the problem
Everybody understands that right?
Right?
Re: (Score:3)
By definition, every act of government is a political act, therefore all content censored by them was censored for political reasons and thus is political content. Furthermore, I don't care at all if Time Cube Party can air their propaganda or not, while I care a lot if I can't access Wikipedia because some asshole is trying to cover up something.
When did politics turn from merely making common decisions to some kind
Times *have* changed! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not a curtain, it's a hijab.
An electronic curtain of surveillance & censor (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The funny thing about all of this is that Iran is just a place name to most people in the U.S. and about as real as Neverland or Hy-Brasil. They have a concept of Iran, but that's about it. If you're Iranian, you don't exist, in their heads, and so what happens to you *doesn't matter*.
Re:An electronic curtain of surveillance & cen (Score:5, Informative)
[citation needed.]
From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082401461.html [washingtonpost.com], is this:
You wouldn't be a(nother) pro-American propagandist liar, would you? Yes, it looks like you are. Couldn't even get the year right on your dissemination, could you?
Re:An electronic curtain of surveillance & cen (Score:4, Insightful)
Hear hear!
I looked at Wikipedia (as I agree the facts are important), and I'm wondering if there's a confluence of stories here.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Iqbal#Facts [wikipedia.org]:
The Washington Post story I quoted said,
How close is Hicksville to Brooklyn? Here's what I found ( http://www.findlocalweather.com/forecast.php?forecast=pass&pass=distances&dpp=0&pands1x=Hicksville%2C+NY&pands2x=brooklyn%2C+ny&Find+distance=How+far+is+it%3F [findlocalweather.com] ):
It appears that Javed Iqbal is a rather common Pakistani name, so maybe the Wikipedia entry incorrectly conflates the two guys, only one being the satellite TV installer?
Fair enough, original post was incorrect, rotted in prison perhaps. However, original post was correct in the charges against some guy by that name. The guy hurling accusation of anti-American propaganda was wrong on that, and gave an example apparently of a different case.
Cheers
OMG! News At 11! (Score:2, Redundant)
Iran Blocks American Virtual Embassy Forthwith!
White House Cries Foul! Why Are Iran Such Meanies? !!1
Readers Vote, We Report:
[1] Iran Are Meanies
[2] This Response Was Obvious, And Iran Are Still Meanies
punishment (Score:2, Funny)
Those Iranians need to have their mouths washed out with SOPA.
Normally... (Score:3)
...one might say, "Well, that was quick?".
But I think in this case, it's more appropriate to say, "What took them so long?"
The young generation of Iran certainly doesn't have much of a beef with the US, and by all accounts, would just assume we got along with each other, each in our own respective neighborhoods.
But the older folks, both there and here, still remember that we hate each other, for good reasons, bad reasons and LOTS of lies.
Re: (Score:3)
When people try to write off Iranian citizen's anger at the US and Israel as ideological hatred I like to ask them how they would feel if Iran did the same stuff back to them. Murder some top US scientists, sabotage a nuclear facility or two.
They tend to refer to the US and Israel as terrorist nations, and echoed Bush by calling them part of an axis of evil and religious fundamentalist hate mongers. A bit extreme perhaps but the US as much a Christian country ("one nation under god") as Iran is an Islamic c
Sounds familiar, eh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow. Nobody saw that coming... (Score:2, Insightful)
Like it wasn't obvious even to some silly AC. [slashdot.org]
You call that censorship? (Score:4, Funny)
I am a time traveler from the future and where I come from people understand that the internet is a place to get information designed specifically for you by the people you pay taxes to. Other governments are all bad, and we don't dare cross IP borders... especially since they implemented IP v1984 and all networks only have access to their own IP segments and all traffic on said segments route through a connection direct to the government run 'packet enhancer'. It's fun and safe!
Who did not see this coming? (Score:4, Insightful)
And I don't blame Iran either. Iranian politics may range from backward through stupid to evil, but their jingoism is carefully stoked and fueled by the US, and this move is just the latest of that.
This wasn't diplomacy, and it wasn't an embassy, virtual or otherwise. An embassy's job is to interact and negotiate with the Iranian government on behalf of the US, not "inform" Iranian citizens of what the US government thinks about the Iranian government. Calling it an embassy is an insult.
Real diplomacy would require an actual conversation between US and Iranian leadership, with both sides coming to a table ready to make concessions and compromises. And setting up a real embassy would require sending a real ambassador to Iran. Doing either of these would require balls, both for the US and Iran. That'd be a courageous foreign policy. If the US were to propose this to Iran, it would likely be rejected (especially now), but making the offer at all would be radical progress.
How big is a country? (Score:3)
The US does this, IRAN does that, CHINA does this other....
When the hell are people gonna wake up and realize these are not countries they are governments which are a great deal smaller than the number of people living in a bordered land mass.
When you remove the soldier pawns and any other pawns what you have left is something less than 1%.
I find it very insulting to know that stories are being written insinuating I'\m part of some psychopathic collective.
I am not part of that crap and I'm certain I share this sentiment with a large majority of people on this planet.
Bastards! (Score:3)
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Funny)
Yes but... how do you REALLY feel?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Hehehe, typo filled ranting aside, I agree completely. It seems beyond the average US citizen's mental grasp that there are people who would like to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
What does any of that have to do with the Iranian government censoring a website? You actually believe that such an act of information control is in the best interests of the citizens of Iran?
No wonder you posted anonymously.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Funny)
It is the place of the US to stand up for unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
How's that been working for you lately? Before answering, you should probably consult your Homeland Security Potential Terrorist Interaction Manual for the proper response, Citizen. Remember, the threats are amongst us.
Re: (Score:2)
Eternal vigilance. When we do something wrong, call us on it. When we do something right, like the virtual embassy thing, give credit.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah except you're incapable of wrapping your head around the idea that we DON'T think that was a good idea! It's like arguing with a religious zealot.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Interesting)
Before judging blindly, have the decency to look at the website : http://iran.usembassy.gov/ [usembassy.gov]
There seems to be some strange reflex that everything the US does, must be for some evil agenda.
I'm European , so i recognize the tone. However, our own leaders are just as bad ( if not worse ).
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
From http://iran.usembassy.gov/ [usembassy.gov]
"In democracies, respecting rights isn't a choice leaders make day-by-day, it is the reason they govern."
"When a government hides its work from public view, hands out jobs and money to political cronies, administers unequal justice, looks away as corrupt bureaucrats and businessmen enrich themselves at the people's expense, that government is failing its citizens," stated U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the opening of the multi-country Open Government Partnership (OGP) Forum last week.
-- Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton
I would argue that the U.S. has already failed its citizens.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
Gitmo. Corporate p0wnership of your election process. Countrywide/BofA and the bank and wall street bailouts. Not one bailout bankster in jail. The clamp-down on the OWS movement, which is a fundamental free-speech issue.
There's 5 to get you started. The shutdown of the "virtual embassy" is small potatoes in comparison. It was also a really, REALLY dumb idea to begin with. After all, it would be easy enough for the Iranian authorities to track who accesses it, make a list, check it twice, find out who's been naughty ... same as the US has been doing for a couple of decades with Echelon. [wikipedia.org].
GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:5, Insightful)
The "Electronic Embassy" was "gamed" to begin with.
If you want goodwill on the path to normalizing, you don't do it by sidelining diplomatic channels and messaging unilaterally. That's hostility - not diplomacy.
If the US State Dept wanted full relations with Iran, they could open up shop tomorrow. But everyone there knows that Israel would cut off their lobby-enslaved testicles. The barriers to entry are US and Israeli.
The "Electronic Embassy" was created TO BE BLOCKED
Now, the "evil Iranian government" can be used to generate a thousand obfuscating talking points - and to frame Iran for "blocking dialogue" - when in fact, it is the US which has PERPETUALLY refused relations and negotiation.
This is a ruse. Iran is not some Western Asian version of North Korea, propagandized with some false lampoon of the US that dominates popular imagination.
As I indicated in the earlier story, there is little or nothing that Iranians need to know about the US, that they don't already know, either by watching satellite TV (which every Iranian has) or by calling their cousin in LA, which half of all Iranians have.
Iranians tend to be the most Amerophilic people you will encounter - but the US has been able to do extensive damage to that impression in the past few years. They seem to be on the path of eliminating all good graces.
Re:GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:5, Insightful)
The last US embassy in Iran didn't turn out so great, so opening up shop tomorrow mightn't be such a wise move.
Re:GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:5, Insightful)
Iranians tend to be the most Amerophilic people you will encounter - but the US has been able to do extensive damage to that impression in the past few years.
Yeah, it's definitely the Americans at fault here. If it weren't for the U.S. government meddling with the media in recent years, Americans would remember all of the things their Iranian friends used to do to express their love and endearment for the American people, like holding 52 hostages captive for 444 days after invading the U.S. embassy in Tehran and having those actions sanctioned by their Supreme Leader. But it's definitely the U.S. government souring relations between the countries, and definitely in recent years.
All sarcasm aside, I won't deny that America has been vilifying Iran (whether justified or not is outside the scope of my comment), but I really don't see how anything the U.S. may have done in terms of media treatment or political maneuvering could even hope to compare with the Iran hostage crisis when it comes to creating ill will between the two countries.
Re: (Score:3)
problem with dialogue with iran is that it tends to go "Hey, you have gay rights problem." "no, we don't have any problem we have no gays everything is jolly fun here".
how can you have a dialogue with officials who don't admit to anything, except boasting to have more weapons than last year? even obama admits there's plenty of illegal mexicans running around usa. what's the use of full relations if you'd still have to smuggle your porno in with goats?
iran is a powder keg on it's own, politically, of course
Re: (Score:3)
Re:GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:4, Informative)
holding 52 hostages captive for 444 days after invading the U.S. embassy in Tehran and having those actions sanctioned by their Supreme Leader
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat [wikipedia.org]
Re:GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:4, Informative)
Re:GAME THEORY - CREATED TO BE BLOCKED (Score:5, Informative)
You're right, it's not like the US ever did anything to provoke the storming of their embassy, like orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected prime minister, supporting the toruture and murder of thousands of Iranian citizens and installing their hand-picked despot to ensure the US and UK continued to control of Iran's oil for the next 26 years.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Informative)
Personally I love the quote from the website that sites Hillary Clinton (speaking as a member of the current Administration) saying that behaviors of the current Administration are a demonstration of the government failing its citizens.
Re: (Score:3)
Public parks are public - they're "owned" by the people. If people choose to camp out on them as a means of protesting against the governments' policies wrt the bail-outs and Wall Street greed and influence on the political process, it's a legitimate free-speech issue.
So, what would you say if they rotated out - each protester left the site for 1 hour a day, so that they were not "living there" - would that be okay? How about if they made it 12 hours a day - and half took the day shift, and the other hal
Re: (Score:2)
Very well actually. We do not live in a dystopian state.
Despite what some people would have you believe.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Interesting)
Just the one with the most prisoners. And legal bribery of your politicians. And more military than basically the world combined. Yeah, just your average modern utopia.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, there's a lot of things going haywire in this country right now, but you know what? I feel pretty confident in saying that I feel safer and more free here than there in Persia. I've never been to the region, granted, but I'm a proud European born imperialist American who celebrates American hegemony. America is not everything that is wrong in this world as the first poster claims, pretty far from it. America has certainly failed a lot of tests, but then my Britain and my Germany have as well, so it's hard for me knock the US for being self interested and imperfect. I would hope that Americans would know about the dark past of Chiquita back when it was called United Fruit and called El Pulpo by the locals it fed on, but most likely don't just as they don't know about the horrible things American companies like Abercrombie & Fitch have done in Saipan. That said, the world is big, but not so big we can't easily find human rights violations committed in other countries by governments, private industries, and state run businesses.
But since we're going to claim in this thread that the US is inciting rebellion in Iran with this site, let's look at some of the horrible imperialistic things that the US has done using this virtual embassy. From a quick glance, there's:
1. A section explaining visas; how they work, what type there are, how to read one.
2. A section for document reqs for birth registration and a PPT application
3. A bookmark of links to various US cabinet and mission websites.
4. Instructions for renewal of passports
5. Information on how to study abroad in the US.
That's all pretty scary stuff, isn't it? There are a couple of things that challenge Iran's fundament human right to control what its residents see and read like annual reports on human rights, trafficking, country reports on terrorism, and an International Religious Freedom Report on Iran. There's also an Open Societies page that seems to paint the US as some kind of defender of women's rights, religious freedom, etc.
Yeah, America has its bad days. So does every other nation in the world that has aspired to be more than San Marino. I know, I know, I'm being unfair in ignoring that one time when San Marino violated its neutrality during WWI as a result of 10 partisans joining the Italian Army. The Virtual Embassy is a good endeavor.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
So please explain Iraq. Oh yes and the 1953 coup in Iran that got rid of a democractically elected government. And half a dozen countries in South America. And......
Care to make an explaiantion?
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
Um....the CIA and British operatives worked together to make the coup happen. The British government was extremely unhappy that Iran had nationalized their oil production (nullifying the contracts they had). The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) is a decent jumping off point on this one. A lot of what we see in the region is a legacy of British Imperialism and attempts by the CIA to control the political landscape. It's not very dissimilar to the CIA training and funding of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia to change the politics of that region (French Indochina) as well. We saw how that turned out...
This is not to say that we can excuse all actions by a people, but we would do well, I think, to consider the legacy of Old World Imperialists and the Super Powers when viewing the geopolitical landscape. Further, it is perhaps as unwise to consider a people synonymously with the actions of their government as it is to consider our own way of doing things--whichever way that is--as being necessarily superior to any others. Patriotism is a laudable trait. Nationalism is a fetish that the world could do without.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean, by injected "unapproved" information?
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, just like the guy who can't grasp that the idea was bad, you've STILL got this idea that they have a right to an opinion on Iran because they live in the US.
And somebody, I *think* it was one of those naughty middle east countries, I can't quite remember which, has to pay for those twin towers! Right?
Over, and over, and over, and over again...
And now it's to the point where they think they can blatantly push their propaganda and nobody will call them on it. They just stand and crank the war-machine in plain view and we are supposed to go "hmm yeah, democracy and shit, we're awesome"?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I posted anonymously because, well mainly I don't care, but also unlike you I'm not looking for an ego boost.
The real question here is why the US thinks it can interfere in the running of any country it decides to.
If the Iranian government tried to set up a web site for US citizens to read propaganda from, how long do you think it would stay up?
This isn't about culture it's about hypocrisy.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
Basically, forever.
Or do you really think we block al-Jazeera? Or any other Iranian site? Just checked, by the by, and the Iranian government's Ministry of Foreign Affairs website is available online from where I'm sitting (though I don't read Persian, much less speak it, so I have to depend on Google Translate).
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Informative)
Functionally, companies in the United States block Al-Jazeera. I challenge you to actually watch their CNN-like feed on your local cable station. The best I can do is their half-hour daily news program broadcast alongside BBC America and (that wretched) RT News on KCET in Los Angeles; today I consider Al-Jazeera's reporting premeir among broadcast television.
We at slashdot all know it's easy to intercept and redirect DNS (unless you're in Sweden, those fine adopters of DNSSEC), or insert in a transparent Squid/whatev with a hosts file, but I'm confident at least they're probably not using Websense, years ago I installed the mod_geoip ruleset to deny access to daily updates for requests originating from embargoed nations.
Last time I was in Syria Facebook was blocked at the port 80 level. But ssh forwarding 3128 worked fine, hopefully no one was etherealing 53. Funny it took Syria three years to finally ban iPhones, I lost a brand-new 3G getting out of a taxi in Damascus... the one time I didn't photograph the license plate of the car I was getting into.
Seeing "Persian" instead of "Farsi" struck me as odd, but I suppose I'm the odd one.
Re: (Score:3)
Oh I do hope that pun is intentional.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Funny)
People care a lot more about $AWFUL_REALITY_SHOW than they do about foreign propaganda here, there is no need to block it.
I'd imagine the Iranian govn't wished they had a population that was sedate enough that they didn't have to block propaganda.
Just crank out another season of "Dirty Ice-trucker New Jersey Born Italian-American Hookers in Alaska", and everything will stay the same.
Re: (Score:3)
If there are no diplomatic relations, the country cannot set up an embassy, it would have been interesting to see what services were offered with the virtual embassy though.
The Iranians deal via the Pakistani embassy as they are persona non grata in the US and the US deal through the Swiss (and, it turns out, through the form
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Informative)
I think you'd find that there are a lot of U.S. citizens that are pretty disgusted with the way our country is behaving right now, both domestically and globally, if you actually asked any of us about it. Do you think that we're all over here cheering this crap on or something? There's people protesting in almost every major city in this country right now.
Re: (Score:3)
that there are people who would like to live peacefully whilst still being diametrically opposed to everything that the US stands for.
Im not entirely sure you are familiar with what embassies are FOR.
Hint, having a chinese embassy in the US doesnt mean we love everything about China.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Insightful)
How about you don't lump us all together as imperialist, culture-bound yahoos?
I have lived in the US and I would never lump Americans together as imperialists. Actually, I wouldn't dream of lumping them together as *anything*. Not a clever thing to do with Americans.
OTOH, the US as a country - meaning the elected government - has imperialist policies and attitude, and has had them for a while now. It is up to US citizens to decide whether they care. In recent decades, the response has been underwhelming.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't say the U.S. is perfect, far from it. I wish we would pull all our troops and influence and aid out of the rest of the world and let them fend for themselves. But as soon as we did we would have dozens of Countries asking or begging for our support. So get the fuck off your hig
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Interesting)
But as soon as we did we would have dozens of Countries asking or begging for our support.
Are you aiming for +5 Funny? Last time I saw this argument it was called the White Man's burden or something.
The fact that you're instead modded as +5 Insightful sickens me.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
The White House condemned the move, calling Iran's internet policies 'an electronic curtain of surveillance and censorship around its people.
Really? REALLY? F*UCK YOU U.S. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world. Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully. You worthless pieces of shit who attack other countries and everyone who doesn't like your limited religious views. You are the scumbag of earth. Go eat your shit. You want to know why we dont like you? BECAUSE YOU TRY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO TO, YOU STUPID SCUMBAGS.
Well, where to begin here?
1 - The US is "everything that's wrong with the world". Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world? Honestly. Do you think the world would suddenly live in peace and harmony? Hint: The US has only been around under 300 years. Have a look at world history before that time. Let me know how great things were.
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings. Nope, if the US went away, everything would be right as rain in Iran. Right?
3 - "You want to know why we dont like you?" Who is "we"? The entire rest of the planet? Your country? Your neighborhood? Some guy ranting on Slashdot?
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Funny)
> Really? If the US dissapeared tomorrow, just what do you think would happen to the world?
Canada would slide south and we'd be that much closer to real Mexican food!
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, but what most people think of as Mexican food is really Tex-Mex. Be prepared for disappointment!
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, I would think that all the oceans would drain into a single large ocean/sink hole, the reduction in gravity throws everything in orbit out of kilter (possibly even the moon?), and millions die of famine.
On the plus side, the middle east problems would be the least of people's worries. Higher on the list (of survivors) would be: "Is my country going to disappear next?"
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
2 - "Go f*cking away and stop crying about people why just want to live their lifes peacefully." Right, the Islamic Republic of Iran just wants to live their lives peacefully. And they do nothing bad.... like, sponsor Hezbollah or ship weapons or participate in kidnappings.
Strange. Just replace "Islamic Republic of Iran" with "USA" and the sarcastic statement would still be applicable
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Informative)
The Islamic Republic of Iran wouldn't exist without the US. Remember, we destroyed their democracy in 1953 because they were trying to nationalize their oil fields, and kick us out. British Petroleum began its life as Anglo-Iranian Oil, which was known as Anglo-Persian Oil before that. The company was literally founded on the outright theft of all of Iran's oil, along with a handful of American companies that got their cut after Operation Ajax was complete. We installed the Shah, he repressed and radicalized the population with our money and training, and then the people revolted, as they often do.
We helped Britain divide and administer their post-war winnings after WWII that largely has started all of this mess. (Do you think oil-rich Iraq was divided equally into Kurdish, Shiite, and Sunni populations by accident?) We backed Saddam to punish the newly independent Iran after they overthrew our Shah. We participated in the proxy wars which destroyed Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran in the 80s. We allowed Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons -- as in, we certified them as nuclear free every year -- during the 80s in exchange for helping us smuggle weapons into Afghanistan. We backed Mubarak. We were pals with Gaddafi while he was torturing and murdering people because he was selling oil to us, but that was all the way back in 2009. We allow Turkey to murder and suppress Kurds at their whim because they are an ally. We didn't say much about Syria at first because it was one of our blacksites. We're still watching Bahrainis get murdered because we like the sitting government that allows our fleet that we use to project power into that Middle East to have a massive billion dollar operations base.
The US isn't the root of all evil, but in the modern Middle East, it's the root of most of it.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Interesting)
Straighten up your own act before whining about the rest of the world.
People still complain about the last time the US tried that. World War II, I think it was. Didn't last very long (although, who knows what would have happened if the Japanese had left well enough alone.)
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the complaint is that the US was involved in countless (well, about 175 by copy/pasting Wikipedia article starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1900.E2.80.931909 [wikipedia.org], into text editor, counting lines, dividing by 2 due to double-spacing) military conflicts during the 20th century, but somehow managed to sit out of about half of each of the World Wars, as though they were either too insignificant, or perhaps not lopsided enough, or maybe sympathies with the other side were too strong (hi Prescott Bush).
Yeah, I think it's the hypocrisy that's the issue.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sorry, this required a second reply.
Following quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz [wikipedia.org].
US stayed out when Britain suffered this:
76 consecutive nights of bombing.
Now, compare to 9/11, and America's reaction and expectation that the entire world would jump immediately to their side, and ... well sometimes the gag reflex is hard to suppress.
Further case in point, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Blitz_(American_football) [wikipedia.org].
Yes, it appears that an American football team, based in London, named themselves after the 76 nights of consecutive bombing.
How'd America like a European-style football (soccer) team based in NY naming itself the New York Nine Elevens? Boggles the mind.
Re: (Score:3)
We honestly couldn't give a fuck.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the poster is reacting to the idiocy of the post. In a world with Putin grabbing power in Russia, North Korea investing in nukes while its people starve, Iran's theocracy feverishly working on bombs, Syria slaughtering its citizens, etc, calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Insightful)
calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
During WWII, we invested an awful lot of money to develop our own nukes; Money that no doubt could have been used to put food on people's tables. We still work "feverishly" on bombs, except now we've gone from trying to create the biggest bombs to the most precise ones, and we're arming our police departments with drones capable of launching missiles that can fire through your window while you're eating dinner, kill you, and leave everyone else at the table undisturbed. As a bonus, we've oblitherated the right to a trial, to face your accuser, and to have the facts presented against you, as well as to have it all made public. Our police and military can now do pretty much whatever they want, and if you so much as make a peep of protest, we'll send 1400 officers armed with tanks, assault rifles, and full military battle gear... to deal with 50 peaceful protesters, on public property, demonstrating because they are homeless. We're slaughtering our citizens too, having the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world. Just because their acts of inhumanity are public and ours are private doesn't mean they're any less cruel. We rail on and on about China's Firewall and their tightly controlled media, while we're busy deleting domains off the internet on every server we can get our hands on that disagrees with our political agenda and paying homage to news sources like Fox News. Our news sources only come from a small handful of corporations, and everything seen on our television carefully created to give the appearance of controversy and openness, when in fact there is very little of either given the amounts of money involved.
No sir, it doesn't evoke outrage... the amount of crap our country gets away with is inspirational to the countries you mention; They hope to wield as much wealth and influence as we do, they're just less transparent about it.
Re:U.S. (Score:5, Informative)
calling the US "everything that's wrong with the world" is so moronic that it evokes outrage.
The main difference between all of those countries doing wrong and the United States is that we do evil in other countries, and they do it within their own borders. That's doesn't make us better, it's just a reflection of our status as the world's only superpower and the relative health of our electoral system. We watched Syria and Egypt and Tunisia and Turkey murder for decades without saying much about it, because we found them useful. And back when we controlled Iran with a dictatorship, we shut down the free press just as we did after we invaded Iraq.
Hypocrisy is indeed what is wrong with the world. Grow the fuck up already.
Re: (Score:3)
That's just like saying the world will always have institutional world-wide slavery, or witch-hunts, or colonialism. You can't evolve society if you base all of your decisions on the belief that we can't change.
Re:U.S. (Score:4, Insightful)
So, uh...what does any of that insane ranting have to do with the Iranian government censoring websites?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Really now? (Score:5, Insightful)
Rather ironic considering that the U.S. government is doing everything in its power to censor its _own_ people on the Internet.
Oh give it a rest you anonymous coward. I'm not American and I don't live in the USA, but if you hate the place so much go live in a *real* police state. Then you'll know what censorship really is. I guarantee you if Iran were to host an "eEmbassy" not only would the US government not block it, they'd have no means to do so other than the courts, and the courts would tell the government to piss off.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
but if you hate the place so much go live in a *real* police state.
"If it could be worse, then the current situation is objectively good..."
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"If it could be worse, then the current situation is objectively good..."
Not what he said. What he said was it could be actually *bad*, but that it wasn't, at least not for the moment.
I would add that it could also be *better*.
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't see him say that. Either way, "bad" is subjective.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, given that the situation in the USA is that I have free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote for whoever I want, freedom to cruise the Internet, freedom to read foreign press, freedom to observe my government at work, yes, the situation is objectively good. Or to put it another way, point me to a spot on this planet where the situation is significantly better.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, given that the situation in the USA is that I have free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to vote for whoever I want, freedom to cruise the Internet, freedom to read foreign press, freedom to observe my government at work, yes
I don't care for the whole pedophile and terrorist hysteria. The TSA, the Patriot act, the (in my opinion) ridiculous copyright laws, etc. I'd say many of our freedoms are under constant assault.
As for free speech, just look to free speech zones (and, although generally not regarded as a bad thing, certain speech such as slander is punishable).
objectively good
That was supposed to be sarcastic. I don't see how something could possibly be "objectively" good.
Or to put it another way, point me to a spot on this planet where the situation is significantly better.
Well, since "better" is subjective, I could point you to practically
Re:Really now? (Score:5, Interesting)
US: Hey, Iran! Stop blocking foreign websites!
Iran: We are just blocking websites that break our laws. You did the same thing when it came to copyright infringement!
US: Well that was different. Copyright infringement is theft!
Iran: Yeah well those foreign websites amounted to an attempt to coerce our citizens to rebel against the government! That is even worse!
US: Well uhh you see...you are doing it for political reasons, so that is bad!
Iran: Well what is up with your copyright lobbyists and the influence they wield over your congress and executive branch?
US: herp derp.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe the US should just say, "appeal to hypocrisy."
Re:Really now? (Score:5, Informative)
USA isn't as bad as X, therefore USA is good?
I hit my wife with an open hand...it's okay, 'though, because this guy I know hits his wife with a baton and at least I'm better than that.
I am an American and I live in the USA. Don't forget that "the courts" are also part of the government. The federal government often and egregiously oversteps the specific privileges granted to it by the constitution; the courts, supreme and otherwise, often allow this to happen. Our government, the judicial part of it included, have made great strides in the restriction of personal freedom, including the field of censorship.
Don't get me wrong, the USA is pretty cool, and our government is definitely an open-handed beater, but just because Iran's government sucks more, that doesn't mean that our government doesn't suck quite a bit on its own.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So that's the newest "Blame Obama" thing? The president had nothing to do with it. Both versions (SOPA and PROTECTIP) were introduced by Republicans. Though both have co-sponsors from both parties. Pelosi and Biden have both said that the bills are a bad idea.
I guess everything that goes through Congress that conservatives don't like must have been pushed by Obama. Even though it's a Republican bill to begin with.
Re: (Score:2)
The Obama Administration would never overstep the law and censor the Internet! [computerworld.com]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
PROTECT IP Act was introduced by Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Re:I agree! (Score:4, Informative)
PROTECTIP was introduced by a Democrat
Re:I agree! (Score:4, Insightful)
That reasoning of "they're not really Democrats" opens the way for counterargument in the same vein -- "Bush wasn't fiscally conservative, thus he's not a real Republican, so the party can't be tarnished by his actions." I doubt anyone on /. would accept that line of reasoning for the Bush example, so why pursue it here?
Anyway, I thought it prudent to point out the complicity of both sides, especially in response to a parent post that was factually inaccurate.
Re: (Score:2)
Better: beam in free, uncensored internet so the Iranian ppl can bypass govt censorship. Then do the same thing in the US!
Re:Extending a hand (Score:5, Insightful)