Venezuela's Contrarian TV Station Survives on YouTube 457
carlos_J writes "Ars Technica is running a story about RCTV, a Venezuelan television station whose broadcast license was refused renewal by the government. In response, the station turned to YouTube to get its message out. Says Ars, 'El Observador clips have been seen 175,000 times since May 28, and the channel is currently the most-subscribed channel of the week. While putting the station's shows on YouTube is an excellent idea, YouTube still lacks anything near the reach of over-the-air broadcasts. But the use of the site to avoid censorship is growing, and it's not hard to imagine a day in the near future when the site (or sites like it) becomes as essential as local TV stations. As that happens, YouTube will come into even more conflicts with governments that have an interest in controlling what their citizens see, It's already happening--Thailand's king, for instance, has a thing for iPods but isn't too keen on YouTube. Will Hugo Chavez show more tolerance? '"
Your answer below. (Score:3, Funny)
Magic 8-ball says: "Not likely".
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Other way around... (Score:3, Interesting)
The minute YouTube began actively filtering submissions (in other situations) they opened themselves to accountability for all submissions.
I have to think that user tagging/moderation would have been a better way to go... That type of system is actually the main reason I prefer this news site over most others. It allows the website t
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How does that hold to logic at all? You can't compare our protests to theirs. We are sufficiently isolated. They are not.
Do you know anything of Venezuela's protesting? There's an awful lot on it. It's a minority, although the disagreement in the closi
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You're right, he only shut them down, confiscated their equipment, and some of his supporters have been filmed shooting at people protesting the station's shut down (see here [youtube.com]).
But he's not blocking them, that would be something so monstrous only Bush would do it, right?
Re:Your answer below. (Score:5, Insightful)
You must be skeptical, this tv station was just part of the opposition fireworks, If anyone can fake videos are them, specially if it is for self-defense.
Of course, for an European or American citizen this wouldn't make sense but in Latin America the media are just part of the good old corporative empire that was always allied to corrupt governments (aka the owner of the stations were family with the leaders OR even the leaders themselves) it is not hard to find a TV station owned by a political party in LA, seriously.
Of course, this doesn't mean Chavez is a saint, he is just moving his country's media from an over biased right to a biased left, both of which are very bad.
But seriously, this is not about freedom of speech, it is about corrupt media corporations battling a corrupt government.
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Whatever wrong you can accuse Bush of doing, Chavez has verifiably done [umb.edu]. I should add arm-twisting of the media to that list...
Except waging an actual war — Venezuela is too weak for that... He is the curse of the country — as soon as the oil price comes back down (and it will), Venezuela will turn into Zimbabwe.
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The Revolution will not be televised. You can watch it on google video.
Additionally, the broadcasts are located on youtube, tough to find but worth it.
And as always there are many more reports from people actually there. You're going to have to commit your own research project to gain some of this information, but I've given you a start on at least that part.
To be fair to the opposition, you will also here "debunkings". It will be up to you to resea
To arms, Filthy Assistants! (Score:2, Funny)
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Will Hugo Chavez show more tolerance? (Score:3, Insightful)
(puts on thinking cap)
hmmm...
Re:Will Hugo Chavez show more tolerance? (Score:5, Informative)
You mean, didn't renew the license of the station that assisted in the coup of April 2002.
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I seriously wonder why they people who run that station hasn't been arrested. I mean overthrowing your government is a crime after all. Ahhh, maybe they didn't participate but rather aired stuff that wasn't favorable to the almighty himself. Well, then we are back to the he didn't renew it because they criticized him.
I find it extremely ironic that the person who called Bush evil is now Evil and is being proteste
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The opposition came onto RCTV and thanked them for all their help. Marcel Granier told the station not to air anything positive to Chavez that day. They lied about how he resigned, which was the justification used by the military to support the coup.
People quit over these decisions.
I seriously wonder why they people who run that station hasn't been arrested.
Chavez would have had to arrest all of the Private stati
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why don't you check yourself what really happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gRUrQCTtNI [youtube.com]
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I've seen some of these so-called "debunkings". They do nothing other than raise doubts (which anyone can do about almost anything) without sufficient evidence to confirm those doubts. If you look around, you can find debunkings of the so-called "debunkings".
But there's an obvious reason not to even bother with that: the debunkings of TRWNBT are all, as far as I can see, produced by opposition supporters. In contrast, the Revolution Will Not Be Televised was made by a bunch of Irish state broadca
Re:Will Hugo Chavez show more tolerance? (Score:5, Informative)
I seriously wonder why they people who run that station hasn't been arrested. I mean overthrowing your government is a crime after all. Ahhh, maybe they didn't participate but rather aired stuff that wasn't favorable to the almighty himself. Well, then we are back to the he didn't renew it because they criticized him.
Or maybe, maybe a media's involvement in a coup is through propaganda? Maybe?
Re:Will Hugo Chavez show more tolerance? (Score:5, Informative)
RCTV's most infamous effort to topple Chavez came during the April 11, 2002, coup attempt against him. For two days before the putsch, RCTV preempted regular programming and ran wall-to-wall coverage of a general strike aimed at ousting Chavez. A stream of commentators spewed nonstop vitriolic attacks against him -- while permitting no response from the government.
Then RCTV ran nonstop ads encouraging people to attend a march on April 11 aimed at toppling Chavez and broadcast blanket coverage of the event. When the march ended in violence, RCTV and Globovision ran manipulated video blaming Chavez supporters for scores of deaths and injuries.
After military rebels overthrew Chavez and he disappeared from public view for two days, RCTV's biased coverage edged fully into sedition. Thousands of Chavez supporters took to the streets to demand his return, but none of that appeared on RCTV or other television stations. RCTV News Director Andres Izarra later testified at National Assembly hearings on the coup attempt that he received an order from superiors at the station: "Zero pro-Chavez, nothing related to Chavez or his supporters.... The idea was to create a climate of transition and to start to promote the dawn of a new country." While the streets of Caracas burned with rage, RCTV ran cartoons, soap operas and old movies such as "Pretty Woman." On April 13, 2002, Granier and other media moguls met in the Miraflores palace to pledge support to the country's coup-installed dictator, Pedro Carmona, who had eliminated the Supreme Court, the National Assembly and the Constitution.
Would a network that aided and abetted a coup against the government be allowed to operate in the United States? The U.S. government probably would have shut down RCTV within five minutes after a failed coup attempt -- and thrown its owners in jail. Chavez's government allowed it to continue operating for five years, and then declined to renew its 20-year license to use the public airwaves. It can still broadcast on cable or via satellite dish.
From http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artn
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I really have other things I need to attend to right now, if you want to message me, or email me or something I can provide you with much more information. Really, I'm fighting off enough other comments, and I do have some work to do.
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When will YouTube's license expire? (Score:2)
And how long before he "doesn't renew" YouTube's license?
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He's not killing the station! They are moving to satellite! Why not speak about the facts rationally?
There's an argument to be made about how this is wrong. The opposition should be enabled to speak, if not by RCTV, a private enterprise, but then by TVes. If they cannot communicate on TVes, then that is a real injustice.
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I've never heard that. RCTV does show a lot of trashy dramas the public loves. That's why the support is so widespread, but I've never heard that as a justification.
Sources?
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I love the easy ones...
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Ah, the pornography charge as well as the other charge. You're correct, my mistake. Both of which were reasons given.
Thank you for the clarification.
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he'd be the guy who shut down the live television channel
You mean, didn't renew the license of the station that assisted in the coup of April 2002.
(Score:4, Informative)
You got the rating, now where is the informative reference? Newspaper articles? Historical accounts? Can you please supply a link?
I want to know, because should I be worried that he is trying to get his term limits removed [washingtonpost.com], that he can currently rule by decree [bbc.co.uk] or that he is not renewing the license (this is the sleazy way to shut something down) of an anti-Hugo [cnn.com] television station.
Which of these is the red light? A television station that does not think Hugo is all sunshine and roses is no longer i
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He went to prison for that, was released, and then democratically elected.
I'm sorry, but if you're looking for dictatorial tyranny in the world, why not start with a few [wikipedia.org] of our [wikipedia.org] allies [wikipedia.org]?
If you want to spread democracy, maybe we should start with our friends instead of our enemies?
Just to correct headline (Score:2)
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King or not, it is a free area of the world. You can't be free when the ruler stops you from your free speech. you cannot take anything that his supporters might do and automatically associate it to a person not participating in it. If so the far left wackos out there would make everyone guilty of some stupidity. It goes the same for the far
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However, I also am not aware of the
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Venezuela's Counter-Revolution on YouTube (Score:5, Funny)
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The Counter-Revolution Will Not be Televised (Score:5, Funny)
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If anyone wants to see some interesting ones, I have them. This one is particularly interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vryo4U-NZvc [youtube.com]
Put in some perspective... (Score:3, Insightful)
And please don't think I'm defending Chavez himself in any ways, but let's remember that Thatcher refused to renew the license of Thames Television. True, their license was lost for capitalist reasons (not being profitable enough), and RCTV was removed for political reasons, but many would argue that those reasons are not really all that different.
And let's be honest about this. In America in 2007, if CNN started taking an active role in the violent removal of Bush (who, while contraversial, was democratically elected), how long do you think the Bush administration would put up with that?
Chavez is authoritarian, heavy-handed and a bit megalomaniacal. But sometimes all of us need to take a good look in the mirror about the state of democracy here before we get all high and mighty about defending democracy elsewhere.
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The difference is that you are apparently welcome to wave your hand and dismiss the fact that this is government censorship. Honestly, what would your reaction be if it happened here in the USA? (Granted, things like this probably DO happen here, but are better disg
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The difference is that you are apparently welcome to wave your hand at television stations assisting in the coup of a democratically elected leader.
Actually, we need to get high and mighty about defending democracy EVERYWHERE. It's not a sometimes kind of thing. Either you have convictions, or you don't.
The conviction that should be defended is freedom of speech here, and it is true th
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that's assuming that they were legitimately democratically elected, unlike say our president for two elections running.
Re:Put in some perspective... (Score:5, Informative)
Here we go,
Complaining about it would only make them look like whiners. Is this the best you can do?
Participation
75% of registered voters participated in the December 2006 election. More than 15,000 Communal Councils formed in 2006 that give neighborhoods power to make local decisions. Massive community participation in government social missions.
Free and Fair Elections
Eleven internationally observed national elections in last eight years. Government promotes voter registration. Independent National Electoral Council oversees elections. Standardized voting machines nationwide produce paper trail. Opposition claims of fraud exhaustively investigated. Constitution provides for recall of any elected official.
Freedom of Press
Hundreds of new independent community media outlets. 2005 reform increased state control of airwaves. Media highly polarized. Private media strongly critical of Chávez, supported coup in 2002 and oil lockout in 2002-2003. Public media strongly supportive. Non-renewal of RCTV license widely criticized; decision is constitutional.
Varied Political Parties
77 parties participated in December 2006 election. Chávez wants to consolidate support in one "United Socialist Party," says parties that don't join "can leave."
Freedom of Assembly, Expression, Speech
No extralegal retaliation by Chávez after 2002 coup. Political repression much decreased. Freedom to demonstrate highly respected. PROVEA, Venezuelan NGO, reports 4.5% of 1300 demonstrations in 2006 were "repressed, blocked, or obstructed," a 70% decrease from 1997-98.
Private Property
Constitutional requirement of payment for nationalization honored. Opposition fears of unpaid expropriation not borne out. 2001 Land Law calls for unused state land and large, unproductive latifundio holdings to be redistributed to campesinos. Government promises to compensate at market rate for land.
Equality
Constitution covers gender, rights for the poor, campesinos, and indigenous, but omits race. Tremendous improvements for poor. Society still machista, individualist, and discriminatory. Treatment of non-Chávez supporters questionable: some government institutions do not employ people who supported 2004 Recall Referendum.
Checks and Balances
Five independent, autonomous branches of government. Grant of temporary "rule by decree" power criticized by opposition and U.S., but is constitutional; used by at least three other presidents. Chávez criticized for reform of Supreme Court; critics claim court stacking.
Transparency
Chávez fairly transparent, but many government officials are not. Little progress curing government and police corruption inherited from past. One of highest crime rates in the world; no improvement under Chávez. Prison conditions still abusive.
Constitution
1999 Constitution written with massive popular participation; passed with 72% support in referendum. Protects human rights and democracy; promotes social justice. Chávez has explicitly followed the Constitution. Constitutional Reform can start in National Assembly or at request of 15% of registered voters.
Economic Human Rights
Poverty and unemployment down, minimum wage and social spending up. Venezuela declared itself free of illiteracy in October 2005. Free universal education, including university. Free universal health care and drug rehabilitation. More than 180,000 cooperatives registered since 1998.
Community and Workplace Democracy
Chávez requires communities to organize to receive government aid. Co-ops, community councils, and co-managed factories promoted with state incentives. Government encourages endogenous development based on democracy and collective production.
Original source / relevant link:
Yes! Magazine
What the FUCK are you talking about? What drug
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It's only illegal if they fail.
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More importantly, what would a Venezuelan's reaction be? Because I live in the US, of course I would be upset. My point is merely that people very often get very self-righteous about condemning the actions of other countries, while suspiciously ignoring many of the egregious encroachments on freedom that occur in t
Re:Put in some perspective... (Score:5, Insightful)
p.s. (this isn't flamebait, I'm describing others opinions, not my own, and I'm certainly not trying to offend or pick a fight).
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If it were, say, NBC, the FCC could easily revoke it's license.
but not shut it down because we here in America still love our freedom.
This may be still true, but each year it seems less so.
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Re:Put in some perspective... (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, CNN nad NBC are bad examples. During 2002 military coup RCTV reported that Chavez "denounced" his presidency when in fact he didn't. Imagine that a rogue military group took over White House and CNN claimed that president resigned when in fact he didn't. That's pretty much what happened in Venezuela.
Would FCC renew a broadcasting license for a station that did something like that ? None of our TV stations would try anything like that in the first place, but if one of them tried I'm pretty sure it will be considered treason.
Re:Put in some perspective... (Score:4, Interesting)
what you described has already happened. and no one lost their broadcast license. Even with the evil Republican winning in the end. OR maybe you are more concerned about someone like a democrat would do something like this. They have been palling around with Chaves recently. We have troups, spys and military operations were people are getting killed and run a higher risk of getting killed because the news keeps telling the enemy about the secrete operations we are conducting against them. When you have brave men and women losing their lives because of the information some news station decided was newsworthy enough to tell the enemy about, and they still have their license, I seriously don't think anything will invoke treason charges on the station.
In america, Right or wrong, we reguard the news as the ultimate political speech and it is the most protected speech out there. If the news said Bush quit to save his own life and later retracted it, nothing would have happened to them outside their creditability being shot. Seriously, the news can fuck up an entire election and not get retaliated against. What makes you think anything else would be treated differently?
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But that is not because of freedom or democracy or any other such nonsense you are misguided enough to believe. It is because of money, you live in a plutocracy and the press has a lot of money. Plus when it really matters the major press will self sensor under presure from politcians or under presure from corperations.
The American dream One Dollar One Vote!
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What we all think is cool is that they are now up on YouTube. If CNN got shutdown for encouraging violent revolution I would think it was AWESOME if they found their way onto the internet even if I didn't personally support their viewpoint. (Disclaimer
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I don't really think many are surprised that the TV station was shutdown and people generally understand that the same thing would happen in just about any other country if that station was supporting violent revolution (I don't know if they were mind you..)
That's the real problem, I don't know either. Everything I see on the subject is either Western Big business bullshit which is 1 step from claiming Chavez is a violent oppressive dictator. Or state (Venezuelan) run media that portrays him as almost a Christ figure. It utterly infuriating! After all there are 3 sides to every story, and I am really have only ever heard two of them and have not been able to piece together the all important truth yet.
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Now what I don't understand is, Why chaves didn't prosecute the people who were activly working against him in a violent revolution or whatever. Actually I think it was some peaceful coup or something. So if they
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I always find it fascinating how weak non-US allies are subjected to such enormous media scrutiny. If you are a US ally you can get away with boiling people alive on a daily basis and the media are not at all interested. Yet if Chavez sneezes it will hit the front pages. If we somehow swapped
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I agree as well. Moreso for them, actually, because back then you didn't have the internet as an alternative. So the license was more important back then.
Privatized, renationalized (Score:3, Insightful)
About the coup d'état (Score:2)
Rightist businessman and Venezuelan Federation of Chambers of Commerce (Fedecámaras) president Pedro Carmona was subsequently installed as interim president for 47 hours. In Car
Publish on all fronts (Score:2)
A little background (Score:5, Insightful)
Those broadcast licenses are *supposed* to be held in the public interest. This TV station supported a military coup against the democratically elected government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Attempted_coup_
That's a pretty unambiguous abuse of the public trust. Can you imagine what would happen to NBC's affiliate broadcast licenses if they supported a military coup against our government? If they weren't tried for treason and shot, they certainly wouldn't be allowed to keep broadcasting.
Which brings us to the subject of restraint - actually, Chavez has shown a remarkable degree of restraint so far against those who tried to overthrow him militarily. They haven't even filed charges against the military officers - the man that the coup tried to install as President was Chavez' opponent in following last Venezuelan election.
I seriously doubt that he's going to try and block Youtube.
Counter-revolution indeed (Score:3, Informative)
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Now I'm no expert, but I'd imagine that if, some TV network in the United States tried to incite the masses to revolt against George W. Bush, and the revolt was put down, the broadcast licences for that network would be cancelled.
I don't know. Given that radio stations like KPFA in the San Francisco area, which has, from time to time tried to incite revolt against the government, have no trouble keeping their licenses (and, in fact, continue to suck money from the government teat) I don't think that th
The revolution will not be televised (Score:3, Funny)
YouTube likelihood self-censorship (Score:2)
YouTube's ownership by Google makes it more vulnerable to coercion by governments that can threaten to turn-off Google unless YouTube complies with local content regulations.
Twisted logic (Score:3, Informative)
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You don't understand the situation. RCTV didn't just call for Chavez to stand down - during the military coup it reported that Chavez decided to stand down when he in fact didn't.
Imagine that there was an armed group of people dragging Bush out of White House and TV stations claiming that Bush agreed to leave willingly - is
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Hell yeah, that would've been awesome!
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Everyone you want it to see will see it (Score:2)
People who do care about "hearing the other side" will try to hear it, no matter what. And all you got to do is point them at the YouTube link for your news broadcast, and they will watch it.
Let's play pretend (Score:3, Insightful)
Because that's exactly what happened here.
I have no sympathy for this station. Freedom of speech, my ass.
Live Lesson on the Rise of a Tyrant (Score:2, Insightful)
I hope our youth are paying attention to what's happening in Venezuela right now, because I think the next 20 years will be an invaluable lesson in how a dictator-to-be dupes a populace with promises of govenrment-provided prosperity and national unity. In other words, he's going to steal from the minority rich to buy the support of the majority
except that (Score:3, Insightful)
in any society of wide income disparity, that is, a small pool of rich and a large pool of poor, there is always this essential story:
1. minority rich angers poor with self-serving policies
2. populist rides poor's discontent to revolutionary power
3. populist enriches his cronies, ossifies, and creates a new minority rich class
rinse and repeat forever
this story has held true from the french revolution to chavez (well, since before the french revolution with various peas
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He has more than 40 years in power, has never been elected in free elections, killed thousands to seize power and imprisons disenters. How is that not a tyrant?
Things would be great in that country if not for the stupid american embargo.
Things would be great if that country were a democracy were education and hard work facilitated social mobility.
They keep saying they are a world power in medicine and technology. If they are as great as their supporters say, they would not need to de
Media Regulation (Score:3, Insightful)
What Venezuela needs is effective media monitors like Ofcom, perhaps with international observers. Also, the reason we keep hearing so much about Chavez is not because of his actions, it is because he is not a US ally. If he was a US ally and was doing these things, the media would be largely disinterested. That is important to realise. For example, much was made of his enabling act, yet the same kind of act was used by several previous Venezuelan presidents. The difference being that they were US allies and he isn't.
Beg your pardon? (Score:3, Insightful)
Forgive me, but what part of:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
do you n
Early Edition (Score:2)
Venezuela blocks YouTube.
No need to censor YouTube, Chavez can say... (Score:5, Interesting)
RCTV was the channel with the most geographical reach (nearly 100% of the country). Here in Venezuela, the "regional TV station" is a very recent phenomenon. Most of the TV stations are repeaters of national chains, and being the oldest, RCTV had the most coverage.
By replacion RCTV with a new station, Chavez acomplishes two goals, get out of the way a big nuance, and replacing that signal with on he can easily control (he is not controlling it yet, but now is quite easy).
In a country were internet penetration is low, and Broadband even lower, and where internet is mostly used by people who already opose Chavez, loosing the free/broadcast opposing medium is quite a blow for disension (I will not YET claim is a loss in freedom of expression).
Anyway, as I sit here (in Maracay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maracay [wikipedia.org]) configuring my new laptop, I receive (Radio, MSN, SMS) reports of protests all over the country... But do not be fooled, these are not riots (thanks the lord), and Chavez already survived a general 3 month strike. Therefore, in about two weeks the protests will subside, the thing will be forgoten, and the same university students who are protesting now will be watching RCTV in YouTube using the campus broadband...
Is a pitty...
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Moreover, I'm ha
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A joke of a country that takes better care of its poor than the United States.
Fine, fine. How about we take your computer and redirect the money you spend on broadband and software and give it to the poor? After all, using your money to give food and shelter to the homeless is much more important than your "need" to post on slashdot, yes?
Re:Fascism + Anti-Americanism x Oil Money = ??? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll see your Wycliffe and raise you a Camus... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Communism is man's exploitation of man. Capitalism is just the opposite."
Re:Fascism + Anti-Americanism x Oil Money = ??? (Score:5, Funny)
But first, take a ride around Haiti so you'll know where you're swearing you're in looks like.
Jails? (Score:2, Interesting)
Last I heard, he wasn't much into building jails. That seems to be more of a US thing, which has the highest prison population rate in the world [kcl.ac.uk].
And since you seem to imply Venezuela would build jails for political prisoners, would you have a few examples of such political prisoners?
Re:Jails? (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously. Let's look at some other countries in the region concerning opposition TV stations, shall we? (re, Diana Cariboni)
1. Colombia:
"In October 2004, the Uribe administration closed the public Instituto de Radio y Televisión (Inravisión),? which aired "documentaries that were often awkward for the government."
2. Honduras:
"President Manuel Zelaya ordered all TV and radio stations to broadcast 10 daily one-hour programmes during prime time, starting Monday, to counteract what he called "misinformation" on his administration provided by the press.
"Honduran law stipulates that nationally broadcast messages (known as "cadena nacional") can only be used to call elections or in case of natural disasters or emergencies."
3. Nicaragua:
In 2002, during the administration of Enrique Bolaños, the radio station La Poderosa, aligned with former president Arnoldo Alemán, had their equipment seized without any legal proceedings.
4. Venezuelan opposition:
"[I]n 2003, Caracas Mayor Alfredo Peña, an outspoken Chávez opponent, also closed down the community station Catia TV for several days."
5. Mexico:
Oaxacan newpaper Diario Noticias, which "is openly critical of [?] Governor Ulises Ruiz, has been the target of attacks since 2005, including assaults on its journalists and attempts to evict the staff from the paper's offices."
6. Uruguay:
In 1994 President Luis Alberto Lacalle "stripped the CX 44 Radio Panamericana station of its licence after it urged the public to take part in a
demonstration."
Now, hey, let's go back to Venezuela. Let's look at that great and honorable privately owned Venezuelan media system. Back during the coup, the station was nothing but nonstop pro-coup propaganda: video after video of the anti-chavez side with hardly a shot of the pro-chavez side, with constantly mentioning reports of Chavez supporters shooting at opponents and none of the reports of the opposite. When the counter-coup happened? They avoided news and played soap operas and the like instead. Before and after the coup? Potshots at Chavez all the time.
How did the opposition get ahold of all of the major networks? Because the opposition owns most of the country, period. They're the same "upper class" that's been around for hundreds of years, dating all the way back to Spanish colonialism.
Re:Jails? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Jails? (Score:4, Insightful)
Imagine how the US would react if Bush was overthrown in a coup and then got back into power. What do you think would happen to anyone even remotely related to the coup?
** By comparison, what was that great icon of freedom, the US-backed coup leader Pedro Carmona doing shortly after overthrowing the government? Why, his first acts were to dissolve the legislature, the judiciary, and abolish the constitution that was overwhelmingly approved in referrendum. But, in the strange world of the Right, he's a democratic hero, and Chavez is an evil dictator.
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But make sure you understand the situation. It's a worthwhile discussion to have, but I would argue we should be buying Citgo products. Remember, his approval rating is 65% approval. We should be supporting who the people want in power.
Here is the latest from Dataanlisis.
President Chavez's performance in office continues to be viewed positively by nearly two-thirds of the popula
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There is such a thing as too much skepticism.
From the wiki: [wikipedia.org]
"Citgo Petroleum Corporation or Citgo, a subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela S.A., the Venezuelan state-owned petroleum company"
"Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA) [wikipedia.org] is the Venezuelan state-owned petroleum company. It has activities in exploration, production, refining and exporting oil, as well as exploration and production of natural gas. PDVSA dominates the oil
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Even if a Citgo boycott did have an effect on Chavez...
While Chavez can be an enormous asshat at times, Venezuela looks like a human-rights paradise
compared to plenty of other oil-producing nations.
Redirecting your money to one of them isn't really the answer either.
Re: (Score:2)
you may well be right, but the link you provided does not in any way support your position.
In fact it is clear that it is bullshit, because it is somewhat self-contradictory.
Towards the end of the message it is said that "It is also important to note that while RCTV enjoyed access to the public spectrum, it far exceeded its prescribed role as a media outlet in a democracy." But towards the beginning the statement claims "The decision not to renew RCTV's
Re:YAH!! (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish that were true, but it's a bunch of crap. Barring the use of fairly extreme measures on your part to preserve security, it's easy enough for the government to find you and send some men around to cart you off to someplace highly pixelated on google maps.
Re: (Score:2)
There are limits to everything. With the internet you can get around some of those limits. But you will end up painting a target on your head and eventually you will end up ruining it for everyone as well as get hit by some governing authority.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If Chavez was really winning the battle of ideas and making things better in his country, he wouldn't have to oppress his oponents. Right now he's a genuinely popular leader, but he's going to end up driving Venezuela into the ground.
Re: (Score:2)
Chavistas are using the internet as well, like this video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vryo4U-NZvc [youtube.com]
The mayor of Caracas calling for violent protest against the closing of RCTV.
Re: (Score:2)
And they're the idiots who voted for Chavez in the first place.