WIPO Wants Your Feedback 195
Christian Engstrom writes "The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) is hosting an online discussion about 'Intellectual Property in the Information Society' from June 1 to 15, 2005. The conclusions of the Online Forum will form part of WIPO's contribution to the WSIS Tunis Summit. There are 10 different themes for discussion, including 'Open Information: At Odds with the IP System?' and 'Enforcement of IP Rights'. If you have any comments about file sharing, copyright enforcement, etc. (and who hasn't?), this may be a good place to post them."
I have a feeling (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I have a feeling (Score:2)
Patented (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I have a feeling (Score:3, Insightful)
An unlimited license is not available at
Re:I have a feeling (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't be a jerk.
They have asked for an open debate. If you express your side of the debate in a realisticly reasonable manner then there might actually be a chance someone will consider your point.
If you approach them with the ravings of a lunatic then you get zero points in the debate.
It would be more fruitful if we considered this a legitimate forum with real listeners then a bitch-blog. The more mature approach will have more impact.
Re:I have a feeling (Score:2)
And if they don't like my well laid out point?
You guessed it - I'm a loonie! A crazy lefty, or some other smear.
Re:I have a feeling (Score:1, Informative)
||||/
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Better.
Re:I have a feeling (Score:2)
Adblock the guy with the 'no software patents' shirt
Goatse's right behind it.
assholes...
Not for us (Score:4, Insightful)
They have a very strong agenda, and they are the bad guys. The forum is supposed to give them advice about ways to enforce "intellectual property", and this means removing fair use rights, not protecting them.
Re:Not for us (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Not for us (Score:2)
Re:Not for us (Score:2, Insightful)
Feedback? easy. (Score:2)
5 jackbooted toes in their backside is my feedback.
Re:Feedback? easy. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Feedback? easy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course, about the only reason anyone would ever *need* a lawyer is to deal with another lawyer, and the self-reinforcing system of complexity they have built around themselves.
Re:Feedback? easy. (Score:2, Insightful)
My god, you're right!
imagines a world without lawyers
Re:Feedback? easy. (Score:2)
Modern civilization without constant war would basically be impossible without complex laws. Witness the prerequisite legal system to any historically successful nation or empire.
By the way, it's lawyers, not the government or the courts, who have put forth the most effort to SIMPLIFY the law, e.g., with restatements, uniform codes, etc.
It is the interacting influences of democracy itself in legislation, the complexity of modern society, and the attempts of courts to do equity, that make law
Re:Feedback? easy. (Score:2)
Really ? Can you give some examples where complexity in law is *required* and not the end result of generations of lawyers investing in job security ?
By the way, it's lawyers, not the government or the courts, who have put forth the most effort to SIMPLIFY the law, e.g., with restatements, uniform codes, etc.
At least where I come from, the majority of "government" and "the courts" _are_ lawyers, used to be lawyers, or would have been lawyers.
Re:Feedback? easy. (Score:2)
They're calling it a discussion? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They're calling it a discussion? (Score:1)
Re:They're calling it a discussion? (Score:1)
Re:They're calling it a discussion? (Score:2)
[Re: The Slashdot Effect]
"Yeah, a DDoS without needing zombies."
Well, I guess that depends on your definition of 'zombies'. 8^)
Re:They're calling it a discussion? (Score:2)
For one (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:For one (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:For one (Score:2)
However, the idea is that when the expected risk of being caught performing an illegal action is low, the only way to create a legal deterrence is to impose a significant penalty. That's why the penalties for copyright infringement are so ludicrously high - becuase it's ludicrously easy to get away with it. Mugging, on the other hand, is generally much harder to get away with; your victim may fight back an
They'd never consider it, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortnately, groups like the one doing the survey will be the big losers. Such a scheme benefits artists, actors, and the public -- none of whom have near as good representation and lobbyists as the big recording and movie companies.
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Your so naive it's touching.
People have proven time and time over that
1 - When faced with the choice of either buying something legally for cheap, and downloading something illegally for free with almost no risk of getting caught, they'll get
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Example: Allofmp3.com
They are cheap, and everything they offer is also available through "free" means like Gnutella, etc.
However, many people still use them. Why? Cheap + Convenient trumps Free + Hassle.
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Hunting something down can be time consuming task, and with the usual p2p crap chances are you end up with something incomlete, useless or worse (like a children's movie with porn sliced in (or so I have heard (no, really, just heard about it
So "cheap" would probably be far cheaper than "free" in this case
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2)
Whoo Whoo. This means MS will go out of business any day now!
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:1)
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2)
If there is no DRM, some one will put this on Kazaa immediately. Why pay when you can get it for free? Especially if it is an exact copy, like a music album, instead of a low quality rip, like a TV show. Do you actually believe that any business in their right minds would do as you're suggesting?
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2)
You sound like a bean-counter. Even with DRM, people still put it right on Kazaa!
Umm, why don't you ask "Joe Average". The majority of consumers are actually buying DVD's/Video's, sales/rentals are very high. The majority of consumers are not downloading an AVI, transcoding it to MPEG2 and then burning a DVD, they are going out and renting or buying a DVD.
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2)
As soon as this becomes more accessible - WinMX for movies, let's say - and there is greater broadband penetration, you will start to see the "Joe Average" folks start downloading en mass. As soon as that happens, it is a whole new ballgame.
With the release of a easy-to-use, easy-to-search system
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2)
http://www.computeractive.co.uk/vnunet/news/21139
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:2)
Re:They'd never consider it, but... (Score:1)
Oh right. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think what is likely going on is that they want to hear some opinions from common people on these issues so they can analyze how to best promote their views in ways that will resonate. That way they can tweak their FUD for optimal consumption by the masses.
Re:Oh right. (Score:3, Funny)
Free Kev1n!!!!!111
Inf0rmation wants to be Fr33!!!!!!
die you f00king gr33dy RIAAsses and MPAAssholes!!
l0lz! r0flz!
Re:Oh right. (Score:2)
Re:Oh right. (Score:2)
Can you really say that promoting a view is 'FUD' when the speaker believes in the message?
Re:Oh right. (Score:2)
Those in a glass house shouldn't throw stones (Score:4, Informative)
WIPO Feedback (Score:1, Funny)
2. BM
3. Feed WIPO #2
4. Goto 1
Ugh, I feel dirty (Score:2)
Re:Ugh, I feel dirty (Score:5, Interesting)
Wikipedia defines "public domain" as the "body of knowledge and innovation (especially creative works such as writing, art, music and inventions) in relation to which no person or other legal entity can establish or maintain proprietary interests. This body of information and creativity is considered to be part of the common cultural and intellectual heritage of humanity, which in general anyone may use or exploit." The public domain includes works and objects of related rights that can be used and exploited by everyone without authorization, and without obligation to pay the copyright owners concerned - generally because the term of protection for the works in question has expired or because there is no provision of copyright law requiring protection of the works in the country where the works are sought to be used.
Excuse me, if something is in the public domain then the "copyright owner" who is not getting paid DOES NOT EXIST.
And the last part in appears to paint public domain as a problem of flawed law from some sort of rouge countries.
-
Re:Ugh, I feel dirty (Score:2)
Re:Ugh, I feel dirty (Score:2)
Re:Ugh, I feel dirty (Score:2)
Wrong. Copyright originated in England as a way for the Monarchy to break up the power of the printing guilds, who held author's works in perpetutity. As a side benefit, it was used to great effect to censor criticism of the monarchy.
How about: (Score:1, Flamebait)
MOD PARENT UP & shoot the mod in the knee (Score:1)
He was saying (most likely) that what he wanted to POST to WIPO was that statement, not to us.
Jesus Christ.
Parent refers to Star Wars parody, not a flame (Score:2)
The movie had a pretty similar scene, actually
Re:Parent refers to Star Wars parody, not a flame (Score:2)
I thought it rather fitting to the current situation.
Let's define what software is (Score:2)
Therefore, I do not see how these instructions can be patented.
If in an effort to establish wheher an individual is mature or otherwise, I need to subtract their DoB from the current date, I could also keep subtracting month by month from the current date till the remaning date value is equal to the subject's DoB.
End result: Same age.
So why should one patent such an entity? What M$,
Well... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know what kind of feedback y'all are looking for but here are some articles in my zine, EuroHacker, about IP and related stuff:
Heh, might as well give y'all the sales plug :)
EuroHacker Magazine is a free-as-in-beer webzine dedicated to neat hacks, guns and survival. All from a European, slightly libertarian, perspective
You can find us in #eurohacker on irc.freenode.org or you can send us an e-mail to eurohacker@gmail.com
Oh, and the main site is here [nyud.net].
All the links were nyud'ized. One can never be too careful :)
Royalties! (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:As an aspiring patent attorney... (Score:2)
OMG, the crazy bastards... now they've patented the future.
Get OECD to Tax Assets Except Creator-Owned IP (Score:2)
While there may need be exemptions for such bas
Me and my funny feeling about these people (Score:5, Insightful)
When you buy something on 'time' you make an agreed number of payments and then the item is yours, you own it. The seller does not have the legal right to decide to extend the number of payments that you have to make whenever you get close to completion.
The copyright period works in the same way. We, the people, agree to let X corporation own the right to demand money for the viewing of an individual work of art or entertainment for a precise and limited amount of time agreed upon when the copyright was granted.
By bribing politicians to extend the copyright period without agreed upon compensation to We, the people, the corporations have stolen the work of art (or entertainment) and all demanded payments for viewing this title after the original copyright period has ended are improper and illegal extortions of revenue from the people wishing to view this work under their public domain rights.
By bribing the politicians to infinitely extend the copyright period, by extending it EVERY time that it is due to expire, the corporations are engaging in a repeated pattern of criminal behavior. Under the RICO act, the people can demand that the entities engaging in continous criminal behavior be deprived of their means, their assets, and the legal framework for their continued existence.
By copying music and movies and sharing these files, We, the people, are simply asserting our rights when faced with a corrupt and racketeering organization. Which in this case are entertainment companies who have stolen the public domain.
Don't let anyone ever tell you again that you are a 'pirate' or thief because you chose to share or download files of entertainment content.
And don't take any nonsense from corporate-controlled non-government trade organizations either.
Thank you.
Re:Me and my funny feeling about these people (Score:1)
Re:Me and my funny feeling about these people (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Me and my funny feeling about these people (Score:2)
If you want to retain the moral high ground, you must only traffic in materials that should be public domain, but are not due to extensions. Even under pre-extension copyright rules, the latest three Star Wars films, for example, would still be protected by copyright.
Re:Me and my funny feeling about these people (Score:2)
All excellent points, except that copyright was intended to grant those vaunted limited monopolies to the creator of the work, not a corporation. Being able to assign the rights to a work to a corporation may seem a harmless thing, but as we've seen, it can be rather, uh, problematic. [pard
Stupid Slashbots (Score:4, Insightful)
Consider this: if they recieve well-written and enlightened criticism (as most of the already existing commentary appears to be) then we will be able to view their future actions in light of the forum results. This will provide a yardstick for anyone to compare their future actions.
If they do something that opposes the majority opinion or most sensible recommendations present in the open forum, we can criticize them.
As is we have no reference for what information is available to them, so we cannot prove that they are being intentionally evil.
Even if they refuse to listen to us, it is a chance for concerned parties to submit their concerns in a single location on the record.
And in case they do listen to us we should explain rationally what and why we hold our opinions, what changes we would recommend and how they would effect those involved (ex. if patents disappeared no one would have to hire a patent attorney (yay!), but would have no protection against people copying their ideas and no incentive to ever document their inventions (boo!)). If they find our explanations acceptable they may change their policies to be more to our liking.
Stupid Slashbot (Score:2)
How about leading by example? You might do a decent job.
Re:Stupid Slashbot (Score:2)
In addition I have no real standing in this field to draw upon for support: I'm a college student, not an engineer or businessman. I don't really know the way things are in the IP world aside from how it affects me personally. I could clothe myself in white-tower idealism and preach about morality and social conscience, but that doesn't really say as much as people in the field giving rea
Re:Stupid Slashbots (Score:2)
What we should be concerned with is credit where it is due. Those that produce more valuable ideas will obviously be in more demand. Giving an individual, group, or organization a monopoly on an idea, no matter its simplicity or complexity
ls opinion more fact please... (Score:2)
I doubt this is part of a data-mining conspiracy to determine the most effective method of brain-washing the masses. (This sort of forum would only attract the most interested parties who hold different views from the masses and are also the least likely to be persuaded.) Worst case, it may help them plan their timeline and budgetting.
As much as it hurts to say it, Intellectu
Re:ls opinion more fact please... (Score:2)
The one area that needs to be enforced is plagiarism and related. Like you say, what if someone just rebranded some product and sold it? It happens all the time actually, maybe not the the degree you might imagine, but it ha
Re:ls opinion more fact please... (Score:2)
One of the big problems with patents recently is triviality and obviousness. When companies start patenting "clicking patterns" and "scoring system for games based on objectives", something seems totally wrong.
Triviality coupled the way big corporations are filing preemptive/predatory patents to protect themselves from competition is turing the patent system into a minefield for any independent inventors. At t
Re:Stupid Slashbots (Score:2)
"Dear Sirs. In the future I would like to be able to purchase music. When I say "Purchase" I mean that you get some of my money and return I actually own something and can do with it what I want. Do you think that will be possible in the future you envision?
What is the harm? (Score:1)
Of course I know all of you are so busy doing spectacular things in life that you would NEVER waste your time posting inanities to forums/boards.
Re:What is the harm? (Score:2)
That said given the manner the wipo has acted in the past my guess is they are hoping for bad behaviour from the open information society people so that they may better demonize them.
Re:What is the harm? (Score:2)
There is a good reason why scientists have decided to boycot the Kansas Intelligent design review/pannel/whatever.
When you know the motive of the excercise is against what you think is right then your participation in such an excercise is dubious as best
Re:What is the harm? (Score:2)
Whats needed are the right kind of lobbying.
hmm (Score:2)
[*] i dont really know much about software patents other than what i read on
summary (Score:2, Insightful)
what kind of jail cell do you want today?
there is NO way in hell that we will ever get anything even remotely reasonable in copyright laws. our only hope is that the current system collapses. there are far too many people with interests that run counter to justice and freedom that control the strings.
it's not giving up so much as knowing where to draw the line. it's like exerting infinitely more energy in a marathon each step to make it to the finish line when everyone but you is alr
Theme 3 - Hacked (Score:2, Informative)
wipo site hacked... (Score:2)
oh well.... I'm sure WIPO knows there are those who do not like them, without this sort of hacking...
Re:wipo site hacked... (Score:2)
Yeah, the hacker is so kewl. Too bad it just gives the WIPO some disgusting proof that their opponents in the IP discussion are a group of childish, immature, punks. Mainstream organizations (like legislatures) will consider this another example of the hollow content and negative orientation of the anti-IP community. This community is already rife with ranting zealots who quote others ideas without understanding them, consistently use flawed logical arguments, and refuse to remain open-minded enough to part
WIPO Want *OUR* Feedback? (Score:2)
WIPO brand toilet paper? Absorbs your rights (Score:2)
Use WIPO brand! Better than competing brands when it comes to quickly absorbing all of your rights.
Three simple things to ask for (Score:2)
The TRIPS (Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights) agreement [wto.org] establishes 50 years as the minimum duration of copyright for WTO countries. 50 years should also be the maximum, and the TRIPS agreement should be amended accordingly. Countries, such as the US, which go beyond 50 years should be brought into compliance with international norms. This is a proper WTO issue, since
Re:Three simple things to ask for (Score:2)
* Patent protection excluded from cases where prior art can't be determined. An example would be where the prior art is usually protected by trade secrets. What is the point of giving patents to non inventors? Software has this problem.
and
A shift of the benefit of Copyright/Patent/etc. back to the creator, artist etc. I don't know quite how it could be done, but it seems to me that the distribution channel usually benefits instead of the creator/inventor etc.
Oh, and Duration & Application of patents... (Score:2)
* Duration of patents changed per field of invention.
The whole point of patents is to reward an inventor when the barrier to copying his invention is low, but the cost of the making the first invention high. It's designed to give him a window in which to make money that otherwise wouldn't exist.
So the duration should be set like that, for a back of the napkin business process idea, the invention cost is negligable, so the duration of patents in that field zero.
For somet
Some background (Score:2)
Tricky bastards, (Score:2)
"Theme Three: The public domain and open access models of information creation: at odds with the intellectual property system or enabled by it? "
Gee a multiple choice question:
1. Is the public domain against Copyright?
2. Or does it depend on copyright?
How about the 3rd option:
3. Or does copyrighted material DEPEND on the public domain?
Imagine if you had to re-invent a sorting algo, an indexing algo, a wheel, a cog, a lever, every time you w
Re:Dear WIPO (Score:1, Insightful)
Sorry, I just don't take IP issues lightly.
Re:Dear WIPO (Score:1)
I thought Frogbert was rather insightful, since discussing anything with some organization as extreme as WIPO is going to be about as productive as discussing an Israel settlement plan with people from a neo-nazi organization.
Goatse (Score:2)
No, you're not the only one. Same goes for the public domain page [wipo.int] (NOT work safe).
I guess somebody should have checked the HTML comment posting code a bit more thoroughly.
Re:Goatse (Score:2)
Re:WTF (Score:1)
actually, (Score:2)
Hummmmm. I wonder which group that would be? Those who support IP via copyrights and will observe these, or those that want total IP rights for themselves, but will ignore them when applied to themselves?