Kerry Film Free To Download

chef616 writes "Ain't It Cool News is reporting that the John Kerry Documentary, Going Upriver is now available as a free legal download for all. It can be downloaded at thekerrymovie.com. Links are available for direct download and via BitTorrent and eDonkey."

Going upriver?

[PrvtBurrito]

Going upriver? He should have called it "Going up the creek"

Re:Going upriver?

[Doc Ruby]

You're not the only one who thinks going to Vietnam was "going up shit creek". Now in Iraq, shitcreek budgets are sending a new generation, without a paddle.

Re:Going upriver?

[dykofone]

I enjoyed the original version of this movie. Martin Sheen's portrayal of Kerry was spot-on and heart felt, though Brando's vision of Bush was a little over acted.

Kerry: "They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound."
Bush: "Are my methods unsound?"
Kerry: "I don't see any method at all, sir."

Re:Going upriver?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

I enjoyed the original version of this movie ...

Best. Slashdot. Comment. EVER.

Re:Going upriver?

[hackwrench]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22i+don't+se e+any+method+at+all [google.com]

Re:Site's already /really/ slow.

[Anonymous Coward]

"As soon as I can, I'll Karma whore"

torrent [thekerrymovie.com]
e-donkey [ed2k]

Re:Site's already /really/ slow.

[infernow]

Yeah, pretty much. But at least I'll be providing a faster link to the torrents.

Here's the link, then

[infernow]

goingupriver.mov.torrent [iastate.edu]

The Green Berets

[b-baggins]

Is a better war movie. Better acting, better casting, and historically more accurate.

National Lampoons Christmas Vacation

[millahtime]

Is a better war movie. Better acting, better casting, and historically more accurate.

Re:The Green Berets

[fm6]

I once read a survey of Vietnam flicks, written by a former Infantry commander who was actually there. Green Berets was at the bottom of his list, mainly because of John Wayne's macho-but-dangerous grenade throwing style. His favorite was Go Tell The Spartans [amazon.com]. Never seen it, but I gather it's more historically, politically, and militarily accurate than most war movies. Which explains why it's more or less forgotten!

Oh the punnery..

[sporty]

A democrat film on eDonkey. I am slayed. :)

Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[EnronHaliburton2004]

There's a movie being regarding Bush which is being released in early November:

It's called Going Down.

(Laugh, it's meant to be a joke!)

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[millahtime]

It could be a huge hit if your talking about the twins. We would all love to see them going down.

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[Daniel Dvorkin]

One of the best Onion headlines ever: "Jenna Bush's Federally Protected Wetlands Now Open For Public Drilling."

[shrug] Personally I don't see it, but then, I'm not much of a fan of plastic spoiled rich girls generally -- a Bush twins porn film would inspire in me the same reaction as the Paris Hilton tapes, which is to say, not much.

In fact, now that I think about it, are there any hot political families right now? None come to mind.

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[millahtime]

I'd do the bush twins. They are totally a 10.

5+5=10

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[enforcer999]

In fact, now that I think about it, are there any hot political families right now? None come to mind.

There are some hot Judges [blogs.com]

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[SkyWalk423]

Have you seen Ted Nugent's daughter?? (Actually, he's got two. One's fine , the other's not.) He's not directly involved in politics, but he's got some "so-far-right-it's-left" ideas.

Does that count?

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[Sponge Bath]

I'm not much of a fan of plastic spoiled rich girls...

I remember the under age drinking incident down at Chuy's, where the secret service intervened to prevent Jenna's arrest. At that time, the Austin police were cracking down on under age drinking. They paraded cuffed college students around on TV as a warning to others.

Jenna's tearful quote, complaining about all the attention:
"I just want to be treated like everybody else!"

Uh huh.

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[TheAngryMob]

I thought that was the discarded title for "Primary Colors."

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[Experiment 626]

With a title like that is sounds like it should be an inside look at the Clinton White House...

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[mjackson14609]

Actually, "the Bush movie" is already out. It's a piece of religious right hagiography, if the New York Times [nytimes.com] is to be believed. I suspect that making this available for downloading by those not in its target audience would be a great service to the Kerry campaign - not that I'm encouraging copyright violation or anything. . .
--

Re:Followed quickly by the Bush movie in November

[follower_of_christ]

It's called Going Down.

Produced and directed by John Kerry himself.
Featuring this years candidate for president/incumbent president playing the role of national morality savior. Featuring the Kerry twins. A wildly amusing comedy portraying George Bush as a washed up old stuttering cowboy not knowing which Kerry to shoot. With a surprise appearance by Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. It's sure to please your liberal republicrat and conservative demican friends.

Price of admission one miscounted vote.

Bittorrent and eDonkey/eMule links for the lazy

[EnronHaliburton2004]

For those too lazy to read the article: Bittorrent [thekerrymovie.com] eDonkey / eMule [ed2k] Go ahead, knock down my karma.

Re:Bittorrent and eDonkey/eMule links for the lazy

[Dr. Spork]

OK, I can't get that .torrent to start downloading, but my DL on eMule is well over 100Kbps, so no big problem. This is a great way for Kerry supporters (and neutral people) with decent connections to help people learn more about Kerry. Let's show some community spirit like we're supposed to!

BTW, this is not a propaganda movie. In fact, it has no narration from what I understand. It's just swiftboat footage from the 60's, much of which involves Kerry. The filmmaker is the same guy who made Pumping Iron wi

Riiiiight

[Wylfing]

Going Upriver is now available as a free legal download for all.

Everybody knows downloading movies is theft. I'm not falling for your honeypot, MPAA.

From the Makers of South Park

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I think it's called America: World Police, and it's a cartoon....

Re:From the Makers of South Park

[kLaNk]

It is called "Team America: World Police" and it is with marionettes.

Get yo facts straight fool.

Re:You know what would make a good movie?

[dinojemr]

Shots of American soldiers gunning down and blowing up Iraqi insurgents and terrorists. Why don't we ever see that? I'd watch...
You mean something like Farenheit 911?

Re:You know what would make a good movie?

[Dr. Spork]

No, he said "insurgents and terrorists". In F911, it looked like they were just shooting arbitrarily. Also worth seeing, but for a very different reason. We don't yet have the technology to detect evil before we fire bullets and bombs, and a lot of our faith that we are killing and maiming "insurgents and terrorists" is blind faith. That's also why it's hard to make what was described into a movie. A film of a human tragedy where innocent people are mass-murdered would look about the same to the camera as a

Kerry's own book is free now

[Rayonic]

John Kerry's first book, "A New Soldier", has been bought out by a 527 group and is now freely available online. [freekerrybook.com]

Re:Do we get to see...?

[ConceptJunkie]

Not to mention France and the U.N...

If you are interested...

[ImaLamer]

There is also a DVD that only costs the price of shipping over at https://www.kerrykit.com/ [kerrykit.com]

It has clips from Going Upriver as well as some other tidbits. It's provided by MoveOn so you get a few copies of their infamous ads with it. I ordered one when they were still free and have watched a few parts.

Cool thing is that it comes with a few fact sheets and a Kerry - Edwards bumper sticker if you want to show your support in that way. Here is a list [kerrykit.com] of the stuff that comes with it. I'm not completely sure if it has been authorized by Kerry himself, it just seems to be another MoveOn attempt at regime change.

Nam of the Game

[Doc Ruby]

To counter this commie fantasy about Kerry's Vietnam, we need to watch the Bush reelection version [imdb.com]. Though Dennis Hopper turns in a nice performance as Bush in his early '70s "lost years" [google.com], this rendition of the Eastern White House is animated by Marlon Brando's cunningly accurate portrayal of President Vice-President Cheney [www.viva.de].

George Butler

[krs-one]

This is done by the same director [imdb.com] of the famous documentary, Pumping Iron [imdb.com] about a very famous Republican. Pumping Iron was later admitted to being a docu-drama (Arnold admitted this himself).

-Vic

/Voting for Badnarik

What I want to know ...

[jc42]

What's Kerry's Bacon number?

For that matter, is Osama bin Laden's number still 3?

Other political information movies:

[Futurepower(R)]

1. Uncovered: The Whole Truth about the Iraq War by Producer/ Director Robert Greenwald [truthuncovered.com], 2003, 56 minutes. Independent film by the Producer. Web site: Uncovered [truthuncovered.com]. Reviews: Powell's (out of stock, no reviews) [powells.com] Barnes & Noble [barnesandnoble.com] Amazon [amazon.com]

   This documentary shows the actual video of Bush administration officials justifying the war in Iraq. The overall effect is powerful.

   Quotes:

   • "... it is a federal felony, it's a crime, to mislead and distort information and present it to the Congress." -- 23:14 minutes into the movie.

   • "... the administration has not been honest..."

   • "... very disturbing ... intervention by people particularly from Vice President Cheney's office and Vice President Cheney himself ... to produce precisely the language which would allow them ... to support the decision to go into Iraq." -- Dr. David C. MacMichael, former CIA analyst. Page 7 of the transcript, 7:32 minutes in the movie.

   • "It is somewhat puzzling, I think, that you can have a hundred percent certainty about the weapons of mass destruction's existence, and zero certainty about where they are." -- Hans Blix, chief weapons inspector, referring to the administration's statements, at 34:44 minutes into the movie.

   This work is available several in several forms, some of which are free:

   • A transcript [truthuncovered.com] of the movie is available online. NOTE: Both forms of the transcript contain errors. The errors I've seen are minor. The quotes here have been checked against the movie.

   • The transcript is also available as a downloadable Adobe Acrobat PDF file [truthuncovered.com]. The Acrobat PDF Reader software needed to view the transcript is a free download [adobe.com] for all computers.

   • You can buy the DVD online for $9.95 from Amazon [amazon.com] or Barnes & Noble [barnesandnoble.com] or from CafeShops.com [cafeshops.com], at a Cafe Shops online store that is inappropriately titled Disinformation. The store originally sold items connected with a humorous TV show called Disinformation.

   • The DVD is available on loan through Netflix [netflix.com].

   • Make your own copies: Kate McArdle, one of the producers, told me that they encourage people to make copies of the DVD and give them to friends (but not sell them, of course). Also, they encourage people to play the movie for groups of people, without extra payment.

2. Unprecedented - 2000 Presidential Election by Richard Ray Perez, Joan Sekler, and Robert Greenwald, 2002, reissued 2004. Web site: Unprecedented [unprecedented.org]. Reviews: Barnes & Noble [barnesandnoble.com] Amazon, DVD [amazon.com] Amazon, VHS [amazon.com] IMDB [imdb.com]

   From a

You forgot one

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot one:

Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's war on journalism. [outfoxed.org]

Direct by Robert Greenwald, the all of the original, digital footage [archive.org] is available for free under a creative commons license.

Re:Other political information movies:

[ronfar]

This one is pretty good too:

Iraq - On The Brink [journeyman.tv]

It's a short film from Journeyman Pictures (the link has a pretty long clip), the most interesting scene to me (from the clip) is this one:

The army's current tactics are winning no friends. As a platoon approaches a house at night, the owner mistakes the soldiers for thieves and fires a shot into the air. It's an action he will live to regret. Troops kick his door in and move to arrest him. "Welcome, Welcome," the man says. But the soldiers can't unde

Re:Other political information movies:

[Rayonic]

Fahrenheit 9/11 uses several psychological techniques commonly used in propoganda. It takes advantage of "bugs" in the human cognitive "hardware", if you will. This isn't a partisan attack, and you can read a rather interesting analysis on the subject here. [workingpsychology.com]

(Requires Adobe Acrobat Reader)

Re:Other political information movies:

[Futurepower(R)]

I agree that Michael Moore sometimes has an objectionable way of presenting material. But, as you are doing, many people talk about Michael Moore instead of talking about the huge amount of corruption he tries to document.

There is a huge, huge amount of material. Here are reviews of 35 books that say the same thing as Michael Moore. You can have the same message presented in a learned way, or a funny way, or a typically Republican way, or a journalistic way: Unprecedented Corruption: A guide to conflict [futurepower.org]

Re:Other political information movies:

[Brandybuck]

Since it was Saudis who attacked on 9/11, why did Bush invade Iraq

Or to rephrase that question, since it was Japan who attacked on 12/7, why did Roosevelt invade Germany?

The answer is the same to both questions. The US didn't invade Germany because of 12/7, and it didn't invade Iraq because of 9/11.

Re:Other political information movies:

[Dr. Spork]

OK, Japan and Germany had an alliance; you couldn't just fight one of the allies. The analogy might hold if the regime in Iraq had any connection with the attackers of 9/11. But there wasn't any connection. Even Cheney admitted that on Tuesday, and he was the last holdout to do so. Bush and Rummsfeld admitted this many months ago. Now the American people need to catch up. (The rest of the world doesn't seem to be having trouble seeing the former Iraqi government as being totally distinct from Al Quaeda, as

Re:Other political information movies:

[IndependentVik]

Or to rephrase that question, since it was Japan who attacked on 12/7, why did Roosevelt invade Germany?

You realize we had a war with Japan in the Pacific and that we dropped two atomic bombs on them, right? So I guess, we should be nuking Saudi Arabia anytime now . . .

(see other reply to this post for details on Japan's open alliance with Germany)

Re:Other political information movies:

[ronfar]

Or to rephrase that question, since it was Japan who attacked on 12/7, why did Roosevelt invade Germany?

Perhaps, because Hitler was crazy enough to officially declare war on the United States?

1941: Germany and Italy declare war on US [bbc.co.uk]

Which he did, you know, in support of his fellow Axis power, Japan. Probably the United States would have had to forget about Europe and focus on the Pacific, such was American rage, if Hitler hadn't decided "we're all in this together." Then again, that's just specu

Many people just don't want to know...

[Futurepower(R)]

Many people just don't want to know how corrupt the U.S. government is, and they find any small reason to avoid to deny the overall picture, while still pretending to be logical.

There is no way to argue away all the material in 35 books and 5 movies! There are NOT an equal number of books arguing the opposite side. The books in the article Unprecedented Corruption: A guide to conflict of interest in the U.S. government [futurepower.org] are from respected publishers. The pro-Bush books are, generally, not.

You said, "It

Re:Other political information movies:

[GoodbyeBlueSky1]

Fahrenheit 9/11 uses several psychological techniques commonly used in propoganda

True, but this is not the whole story. You need another sentence where you replace "Fahrenheit 9/11" with "The Bush Administration", just to be fair and balanced.

You doubt Bush uses propropagand?

[beetle496]

Are you really questioning if the Bush administration uses propaganda?

Well, if you know of have a similar analysis on propoganda by the Bush administration, let's have it.

How about The 'Prop-Agenda' At War [globalissues.org], a leading hit from a restrictive search [google.com] which returned almost 600 items (ironically, the top one was the Rhoads paper).

Thats...thats just great

[Tyndmyr]

Im really stretching for something to post here. Ive got three more hours of "work" ahead, and Im outta stuff to read on /. This is new, and I love politics, but it just aint doin it.

Its not just the website, which didn't exactly exude professionalism. Im used to less than perfect web design.... I do work for the government after all. It's not even the obvious promotion of a canidate that looses my intrest. Ive grown used to the crazy stuff that happens every four years here.

Its the sheer emptiness of it all. He fought in Vietnam. Great. Lots of people did, and while Im not trying to put down what they did, and hes done far more than Bush, we've all heard about it already. But really, who cares? Its nice that he did that, but it doesnt distinguish him as a leader from among the number of men who've also risked their lives.

I want interesting debate, non-evasive comments, and a lot less pointless "image-building", dammit. Bah, theres no room in society for intelligent people any more...

This bitter diatribe brought to you by Tyndmyr

Re:Thats...thats just great

[mooredav]

I saw Going Upriver in the theatre last week. I didn't know what to expect going in. I came out with a lot on my mind. This is not a boring film.

The story is larger than just Kerry. It's about Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a group that Kerry organized. Before I saw the movie, I didn't know that their protests were so difficult and so significant. I had heard about some things before: Kerry's testimony before Congress, and the veterans throwing away their medals. I just shrugged them off until this film gave me the context to appreciate those events.

It's a not-so-subtle reminder that we should consider the lessons of Vietnam in our current affairs. Do not dismiss Going Upriver as just an "image-building" piece for Kerry.

Re:Thats...thats just great

[ortcutt]

Did you watch the movie? Did you? I'm guessing you didn't since you wanted to talk about the website more than the movie. Don't bitch about how it's image-building before you've even see it. Post again after you've watched it and I might take you seriously.

Re:Thats...thats just great

[Dr. Spork]

OK, exactly you need to watch the movie. I'm uploading it at full bandwidth on through eMule as are many others, apparently, so it should come in fast. If you see in an come back and say "But really, who cares?" I'll be impressed.

Keep It Going

[hprotagonist0]

Check out Keep It Going [keepitgoing.org], a site dedicated to getting people to go see this movie. We're signing up volunteers to host screenings on a national screening day.

So come to the site and read through our blog [keepitgoing.org] or sign up [keepitgoing.org] to host a screening. More info on the site.

Can anyone run a new tracker

[linzeal]

We has kill't the 6969 on the original and need someone else to sends up the flag, ARRRRR.

Wait, I'm not a pirate today? Damnit!

Legal? Really?

[HyperLemur]

I don't see anything that states that this is clearly the case. I don't want to cause trouble for other people.

More free Kerry stuff!

[Bombcar]

Kerry's not-so-best selling book! [freekerrybook.com]

Hey, we all want free stuff, right?

Legal?

[gmuslera]

That means if Kerry wins, p2p per se will not have legal problems during the next administration like it was tried to be banned [com.com] in this one?

Re:Legal?

[OYAHHH]

> That means if Kerry wins, p2p per se will not have legal problems during the next administration like it was tried to be banned [com.com] in this one?

Wait a second! Let's be fair here.

The article to which you refer to describes the Induce Act. Which I am diametrically opposed to.

But, to set the record straight, Senator Barbara Boxer is one of the co-sponsers of this miserable legislation.

And I can assure you that the liberal that Boxer is, has nothing, and I repeat nothing, to do with in "this ad

The torrent is broken

[noa]

I get through to the tracker about 5% of the time. However it is available from thepiratebay.com also and that one seems quite fast, at least from over here in Sweden.

Direct link to the torrent [thepiratebay.com]

Re:The torrent is broken

[david_reese]

Props to you brotha... someone pls mod up parent. I think the original torrent is hosed. This is the only working link on the page. Also linked your torrent on other sites (dailykos.com)

No, not just yet...

[Sponge Bath]

I'm going to wait for the extended version box set.

Re:No, not just yet...

[Chaotic Evil Cleric]

In the new version, Kerry shot first.

Free and legal?

[Artifex]

Funny, I don't see any relation to the official movie website, goingupriver.com [goingupriver.com]:

thekerrymovie.com -

Registrant:
ZiaSpace Productions
12210.5 Nebraska Avenue

NO UNSOLICITED MAIL
Los Angeles, CA 90025
US

Domain name: THEKERRYMOVIE.COM

Administrative Contact:
Klos, John [e-mail]
12210.5 Nebraska Avenue

NO UNSOLICITED MAIL
Los Angeles, CA 90025
US
+1.3109800704
Technical Contact:
Klos, John [e-mail]
12210.5 Nebraska Avenue

NO UNSOLICITED MAIL

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[w3rzr0b0t5]

I forgot capitalist.

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Actually- It comes out more like this for the true lefty (got to remember, you see, that Clinton was RIGHT WING from our point of view):
Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - bad...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...
Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - bad..
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...
Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - bad...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albani

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[coyotegestalt]

"Time to kill all the rich white men and take this country back for the TRIBES!" But what if we don't want back the parts you guys have screwed up?

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

"Time to kill all the rich white men and take this country back for the TRIBES!" But what if we don't want back the parts you guys have screwed up?

True enough- who would want Manhattan Island back now? Or San Fancisco (oops, no, that tribe died out). Or LA (not sure who controled that area- I think it was orignally a part of Aztlan, the Aztec Empire).

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Wasn't in the original list- I just wanted to point out that just because Clinton did something doesn't mean that it's good....and that I'm generally against all of the above. Gore claiming to invent the internet- not sure if I'd classify that as bad or just stupid.

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[IndependentVik]

Gore never said that. [snopes.com]

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Yes- but the Republicans think he did, and none of this is actually about reality, but rather about perception.

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

You are kidding here, aren't you? I mean, uh cause I am uh white, and I wouldn't say I am rich but uh some might....Gulp....

Only partially- I do feel that ever since the white man came this continent has basically been headed in the wrong direction- and W/Kerry is just the culmination of that.

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Right b/c b4 the white man, there was human sacrifice and other egalitarian goodness. Prior to the "white" man's arrival this continent wasn't headed in any direction. "An object at rest cannot be stopped!"

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Just because you don't recognize the goal of actually living as a part of nature and in harmony with nature does not mean that the goal does not exist.

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

If you earn more than $35K, John Kerry thinks you're rich.

If you actually READ his website instead of listening to a bunch of talk radio idiots who couldn't be bothered to read something even if it was printed on their paychecks, you'd see that Kerry only thinks you're rich if you earn over $200,000/year- anyway, that's where he'd start repealing the tax breaks.

Re: Let me see; have I got this straight?

[MImeKillEr]

..and since he lives off his nutcase wife's money, he can claim he's poor to appeal to the 'masses', despite the fact that they own mulitple homes and he gets to ski in the summer.

Yeah, a real 'man for the people'

And did anyone notice his fake & bake orange tan had mysteriously disappeared before the last debate?

And what the fuck was up with him pulling cheat notes out of his pocket when he got to the poduim at the first debate?

FOUR MORE YEARS!

Moderator Abuse ?? [Re: Let me see; have I got]

[rm3friskerFTN]

How is the "Let me see; have I got this straight?" post by LouCifer considered "flamebait" ???

Seems to be a good summary of the history and hypocrisy surrounding many of the issues over the last twelve-years.

Re:Moderator Abuse ?? [Re: Let me see; have I got]

[putch]

if by 'good summary' you mean incomplete, biased, out of context, and off-topic then you are right.

Re:Moderator Abuse ?? [Re: Let me see; have I got]

[OYAHHH]

Per,

The flamebait question. At the moment I looked at the summary of moderation and it came out like this:

--------------------
Moderation 0
30% Interesting
30% Informative
20% Offtopic
Extra 'Troll' Modifier 0 (Edit)
Total Score: 0
---------------------

For an overall score of 'Troll'.

My question is, how does 30% interesting, 30% informative, 20% offtopic, and 20% ??? not add up to something 'positive'?

NOT "international mandate"

[rm3friskerFTN]

"when we went to serbia we went with a true international mandate"

define "international mandate"? UN Authorized? ...

NOT

recall "a coalition of the willing" (grin) made up of NATO Members authorized by NATO (NATO != UN and UN != NATO) went into the former Yugoslovia

sounds like "jury shopping" to me:

international group UN does not authorize this ... try another group

international group XYZ does not authorize this ... try another group

international group PDQ does not authorize this ... try another gr

Re:NOT "international mandate"

[IndependentVik]

It was a humanitarian mission with a broad-based coalition behind it, not this Orwellian nightmare (with Americans bearing 90% of the casualties--how many Americans died in Clinton's war again?) we have going on now. The reasons for the Iraq war have been shifting constantly. If its true aim at the outset had been to help the Iraqi people and there'd been none of the fearmongering that went down, I might've even supported it.

Historical Data??? [Moderator Abuse]

[rm3friskerFTN]

This link [c-span.org] will take you to the twenty-three (23) "reasons [paragraphs] for the Iraq war" ... not that the truth would ever get in the way of a good SlashDot "script kiddie swarm" ;-);-);-)

Here's one of the twenty-three (23) reasons we went to war:

true aim at the outset had been to help the Iraqi people???
Whereas in December 1991,Congress expressed its sense that it ''supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with

Re:Historical Data??? [Moderator Abuse]

[IndependentVik]

I'm sorry, but that document isn't how the war was sold to the American people and you know it. The war was sold on the grounds that the smoking gun for Iraq's WMD could "come in the form of a mushroom cloud". The war was sold to the populace on fear. Fear of WMD and fear of this non-existant alliance between bin Laden and Hussein.

If Bush had gone to the American people asking for a humanitarian mission, then you'd have a point, but he didn't and you don't. And no, the resolution doesn't count, Joe Cit

Historical Data??? [Moderator Abuse]

[rm3friskerFTN]

"... but that document isn't how the war was sold to the American people and you know it."

Wrong ... I would link to additional documents but you would just poo-poo those too

The war was sold on the grounds that the smoking gun for Iraq's WMD could "come in the form of a mushroom cloud"

Hopefully you will not disagree that Saddam had a history (smoking guns ... qty 2) of using WMD (i.e. chemical weapons) against the Kurds (#1) & Iranians (#2) ... see quantity 2. Thus it might (just might) be logic

Re:Historical Data??? [Moderator Abuse]

[IndependentVik]

Hopefully you will not disagree that Saddam had a history (smoking guns ... qty 2) of using WMD (i.e. chemical weapons) against the Kurds (#1) & Iranians (#2) ... see quantity 2. Thus it might (just might) be logical to conclude that he might be doing some nuclear stuff ...

You don't lead a country to preemptive war on that thin a premise, Sparky. Incidentally, Iran actually HAS a nuclear program. Why did we not invade them?

I have many points ... everyone has a point or two ... the real point you m

23 Reasons vs 1 'thin' Premise [Moderator Abuse]

[rm3friskerFTN]

You don't lead a country to preemptive war on that thin a premise,

On one "thin premise" ... NO ... one would not lead "a coalition of the willing" into war on one "thin premise" ... not with standing Saddam having actually used WMD twice before against the Iranians and Kurds ... BTW, please do not cheapen their painful WMD deaths by calling those two Saddam WMD use events "thin evidence" of Saddam's capacity both to construct and to use WMDs

However, combining a "thick premise" (i.e. actual use of WMD tw

Re:Historical Data??? [Moderator Abuse]

[rm3friskerFTN]

More reading for you ... being the informed individual you are (like myself ;-) I have no doubt you are already reading the original Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq's WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction) [findlaw.com]

From a recent MSNBC column [msn.com] [Cliff Notes review - prior to reading the source document]:

The weapons of mass destruction case is a bit more, um, nuanced than a lot of the press treatment makes it sound, of course. No weapons have been found, but the Iraq Survey Group's

report [findlaw.com]

Where the French were - taking bribes???

[rm3friskerFTN]

If only Milosovich (still on trial for "war crimes" - year 5 or so ;-) had been bribing Chirac's friends then the Yugoslavian genocide could have continued.

More reading ;-);-);-) from the London Observer:

France's Saddam deals revealed [guardian.co.uk] by Antony Barnett and Martin Bright on Sunday October 10, 2004

Dramatic new details of France's secret dealings with Saddam Hussein's regime have emerged as part of a fresh corruption investigation into alleged illicit oil deals.

[snip][snip][snip]

The disclosure will

Re:Bias

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Individual editor != Slashdot. Pudge, for instance, posts content heavily biased towards the right- when he can find it.

Re:Reenacting Battles ?

[CptNerd]

Check out a little movie called "Patton", that showed Patton landing in Sicily. MacArthur did it too, and I suppose Kerry thought he'd be in the same league eventually.