Obama: 'We Don't Have Enough Engineers' 651
dcblogs writes "President Obama wants to boost engineering graduation rates by 10,000 a year. In 2009, the US produced 126,194 engineering graduates for bachelor's and master's degrees and for Ph.D.s. The US had just over 1.9 million engineers in 2010. The unemployment rate in 2010 for all engineers was 4.5%. 'We've made incredible progress on education, helping students to finance their college educations, but we still don't have enough engineers,' said Obama. He's counting on the private sector to help expand the number of graduates."
Of course you don't. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you want to be an engineer? Seriously why, when you could do manual labour, be an electrician, cementer, crane driver, or work in a number of other trades? The other trades pay more, give you better conditions, and you don't need to go work for some mining company in the middle of no where to earn a wage.
I know electricians who did their trade after their EE degree for this reason. Sure you can make a mint as an engineer but is it worth it having to live in a remote country town in order to do so?
Or why not become a "financial engineer". You get to use your brain, you get paid massive bonuses for creating zero wealth, and you don't get treated as a second class citizen.
China or Germany don't have this problem. They raise their engineers onto pedestals bigger than those the Americans would reserve for bankers.
Why would you want to be an engineer?
Unemployment rate (Score:5, Interesting)
Follow the cash (Score:4, Interesting)
At some point something happened to the good wages and nothing happened to the graduation numbers.
Now the trick seems to be make more cheap engineers. They know "responsibility" is very personal in their field.
Why would anyone want to be an engineer in the US? The infrastructure is a mess and every project you sign off on legally risky long term for a lower wage.
If the US wants more very skilled people, start paying them again. But that would show the cracks in the currency.
Re:Of course you don't. (Score:3, Interesting)
"Why would you want to be an engineer?"
Because the technology is legitimately interesting, that's why. And that's the ONLY reason - as you quite correctly point out, engineers (of various types - electrical engineers, mechanical, software, etc.) are treated like dirt in this country. The only thing that keeps me interested in my chosen field is my sincere interest in the technology itself. That's the only way I can put up with a culture that values drunken debauchery from the football team's quarterback over historical technological advances of massive importance. Anyone with an IQ in this country over that of a doorknob is usually treated as a "nerd", stereotyped into being a social outcast, and is subjected to ridiculous deadlines by the guy that used to be said aforementioned quarterback. We're over-saturated with mind-numbingly stupid media (TV, movies, music, etc.) that pays millions to people because they look pretty but are dumb as a box of rocks. What has Paris Hilton done to advance the lives of humanity? Not a goddamn thing, unless you count being a doped-up retarded slut who does nothing but sit around and party all fucking day as something positive. But there are thousands of engineers and scientists in this country who bust their ass every day to cure disease, create new technology, and solve problems. But who are they? No one knows, because we (as a culture) don't care enough anymore to honor them in any way whatsoever.
This is a problem of culture, primarily. If we change American culture to sincerely VALUE intelligence, hard work, and scientific innovation, we'll have a resurgence of engineering graduates, and thereby improve our standing as a nation in terms of math and science education, and begin creating new, innovative technologies once again.
Re:Of course you don't. (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you want to be an engineer? Seriously why, when you could do manual labour, be an electrician, cementer, crane driver, or work in a number of other trades? The other trades pay more, give you better conditions, and you don't need to go work for some mining company in the middle of no where to earn a wage.
It's not just the wages and the other advantages. Me, I used to be a software engineer with a pretty damn good pay, and I gave it all up to retrain and work as a gunsmith. Why? Because I'm happier creating beautiful rifles with my hands, that my customers are happy to own and use, than be a stressed-out project manager in a software company where everybody, from management to the customers, prefers quick development over a job well done.
I'm paid a lot less, but I also work fewer hours, the hours I work are good time, I get to spend quality time with my family and forge a bond with my customers. In short, I'm happier. Besides, being an engineer isn't all it's cracked up to be, there's pride in being a good honest craftsman too.
Re:Solution (Score:5, Interesting)
It's hard to believe that anyone really gives a shit about "growing more engineers" domestically, when they keep pushing things like H1Bs, because "it's too expensive". If the supposed scarcity of engineers is real, then engineers would be paid a whole lot more, which would entice more people to go into engineering. Instead, they "artificially" deflate the price of an engineer by just saying "fuck it, we'll bring more in" and then when fewer people want to become engineers as a result, they bitch about that, too.
It's an inevitable result of the whole "engineers have to live within the costs of living in the region they reside, but their employers can pick over the entire globe of labor, including places where the entire cost of living for one engineer is less than the cost of groceries, for another".
Hiring Manager Here... (Score:4, Interesting)
Of the last 2 interns I hired, one happens to be a product of the US education system and the other falls in the "Indian/Asian" category. I can give one a permanent position. The pay is the same regardless of which one I choose. If I choose the non-citizen, I am in for a whole pile of extra paperwork to get his labor certification done.
There is no comparison on the performance level. (The hours are identical -- interns work exactly 40 hours per week) Even though I will wind up with a whole pile of paperwork, I am hiring the non-citizen. I'd rather have to do the paperwork than have to teach the kid who grew up here all of the things that his parents and teachers should have taught him over the years.
Face it. I need to hire people who know how to do stuff. In the last 20 years or so, we started to produce kids that don't know how to do anything. Personally, I think it was around the time that parents started to buy kids nice cars rather than helping them get a heap of junk out of the classifieds and lending them a set of tools.
There is a part of me that would rather hire my fellow Americans. Too bad I can very rarely find qualified ones. That pains me.
Re:Solution (Score:4, Interesting)
This is why the thousands of illegal immigrants marching in the streets saying "Yes we can" piss me off sometimes. Millions of illegal immigrants clogging up our already overloaded immigration system. We have the same problem that Australia does - immigration is great, but we need more engineers & scientists, not roofers and hair stylists from Guatemala, regardless of how entitled they feel to be in the US.