Cuba Jails US Worker Handing Out Laptops, Cellphones 400
eldavojohn writes "An American citizen working as a contractor for the United States Agency for International Development has been arrested for giving away laptops and cellphones in Cuba. The intent was to enable activists to connect with each other and spread information of what's happening inside Cuba. From the article: 'Cellphones and laptops are legal in Cuba, though they are new and coveted commodities in a country where the average worker's wage is $15 a month. The Cuban government granted ordinary citizens the right to buy cellphones just last year; they are used mostly for texting, because a 15-minute phone conversation would eat up a day's wages.' A Representative on the House Foreign Affairs Committee said the arrest was 'no surprise' while a human rights watch group cited a report outlining the Cuban Criminal Code offense of 'dangerousness,' which is most likely the one for which this individual was detained. There is at present no way to contact the individual nor official word on why he was detained." The article quotes an actvist with Human Rights Watch who said that "any solution to the contractor's case would probably be political" and that "the Cuban government often provokes a negative reaction in the United States just as [the two] countries begin to move toward more dialogue."
Can't be true (Score:1, Insightful)
Michael Moore told us Cuba should be a model for the US. I guess he meant "free" health care comes at the cost of only having $15 dollars in your paycheck at the end of the day.
Embargo fails. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Communism (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Embargo fails. (Score:5, Insightful)
Had it been lifted many years ago, perhaps Cubans would have already overthrown their dictatorship and established a free way of life.
Yeah, just like the Chinese have.
Re:Embargo fails. (Score:4, Insightful)
I really did not know that the USA was the only country in the world that makes cell phones. Since there is nothing to stop an NON-USA country from trading with Cuba.
Tim S.
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
"Revolution for the people" is irrelevant. Single party systems inevitably lead to human rights abuse.
The message that such concentrated power is for the benefit of "the people" is pure propaganda.
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
The government of Cuba is evil.
In other news, water is wet and fire is hot.
That won't teach the US (Score:2, Insightful)
...to keep its nose of other people's business. The US government's "freedom" fighters can't wait to destroy Cuba. What right does the US have to be there trying to create chaos?
Dual Standards (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Normalize with these animals? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, we do business with China and Saudi Arabia. Just Saying....
Dear USians (Score:2, Insightful)
When visiting the U.S. would I not be expected to follow U.S. laws. If I have a problem with this my choices are not to go to the U.S.
If you went and did the same thing in Australia you'd be charged as well, granted you'd only get a fine and not jail time the only difference is that we'd charge you under our tax and import laws (nice and civil like). The person in question went there with the express purpose of undermining the government, whether you agree with it or not it is illegal, not to mention ill thought out given the relative ease this person was caught.
Now if handing out technology to a developing nation's people was this persons goal there are many better, legal methods of doing it. There are literally dozens of charities dedicated to this goal.
Re:Normalize with these animals? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why am I not surprised? (Score:5, Insightful)
walked out on the movie Minority Report about 10 minutes in
You actively don't watch movies that tackle issues you disagree with? That is a very very close minded attitude.
P.S. had you stayed for the remainder of movie you would have seen that the movie was a warning against such a law. That's ironically akin to not reading Animal Farm because you dislike communism.
Re:Normalize with these animals? (Score:5, Insightful)
It is instructive to note how many useful idiots keep calling to normalize relations with the sort of barbarians that lock people up for passing out cell phones.
Normalize travel and trade with these animals? Really?
Seriously, would YOU travel into such a hellhole? Do business as usual with such a morally bankrupt regime and expect them to honor contracts like civilized people?
Yes, really. Why? Because you nominally care about the vast majority of normal people who live there. You may disagree with the ruling class, but that doesn't necessarily justify an embargo.
Also, let's keep in mind that these people locked up someone who was effectively an agitator. Or is sedition only bad when it's being done against the US standards? The Cubans locked up a man who was disruptive to their country's stability, like it or not. And again, if the embargo wasn't in place, the sheer contact between the normal citizens of each culture would have done a lot to educate both sides. People learn from contact. Leaving a country in isolation does nothing for them.
Depose or do not depose. Those are the two reasonable courses of action. The embargo at this point is nothing but pride.
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out. Apparently Cuba can't do it because then they are dangerous communists that eat children for breakfast.
Remove the absurd and illegal embargo you have on Cuba and then let's all talk about democracy. No country can be democratic with another country's boot crushing it. And we're talking about the USA, it's a HUUUUGE motherfucking boot.
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
Theirs is not the only system that needs replacing/overhaul. Dual party systems also lead to human rights abuse.
The message that a two party system is a "democracy" (or "republic" if you want to ride the irrelevant semantics bandwagon) is pure propaganda.
Leave Cuba Alone (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Embargo fails. (Score:5, Insightful)
The US does extend their reach on export control. If you want to sell technology to the US you have to agree not to sell to countries they embargo.
Re:Normalize with these animals? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, it's not like the US imprisons people for years without charge ignoring their human rights under the Geneva convention for political reasons (in Cuba no less).
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out.
Ah yes. In that case, it should be no problem for you to point to a case where an individual was jailed in, say, the United States, for handing out free stuff to political groups.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Oh, and while you're trying to think of a way to back-pedal out of this one, you should probably stop and think about just how despicable you look to every person who actually gives a damn about human rights. You're offering excuses on behalf of an oppressive dictatorship, just so you can squeeze in a cheap shot at nations which guarantee you freedoms that Cubans can only dream about. I don't know how you live with yourself.
Dear master of moral equivalence (Score:1, Insightful)
When visiting the U.S. would I not be expected to follow U.S. laws.
Of course, you neatly skip over the laws that are so hard to follow between the two countries - in the U.S. for example, we frown on you killing people and so on.
All this guy did was hand out cell phones and laptops. That the people he was handing them to could buy if they could afford them. So they could communicate.
Now why exactly is the U.S. the monster in this scenario again? If you came to the U.S. handing out laptops and cellphones, I am pretty sure you would not be jailed. Unless you tried to give out RAZR phones, in which case you might well be shot but then of course you'd deserve it.
They are within their sovereign right to do so. (Score:2, Insightful)
Reverse it. Suppose foreigners had come here and started handing out goods we labeled contraband but were perfectly legal in their respective countries. We would likely react accordingly and arrest (or at least detain and deport) them. How about we change our attitudes regarding other nations to something like this: mind our own damn business. Thank you for reading.
Sauce for the goose? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder how somebody doing the same kind of thing would have been treated in Chile under Pinochet, or one of the other countries where the US has installed its own bloody-handed dictators. Actually, I don't wonder at all. At least in Cuba the guy has a chance of getting out alive. If Pinochet or one of the other US puppets got hold of him, he'd already be missing some body parts and rotting in a shallow grave somewhere.
You're aware that only 8.5% of US oil imports (Score:4, Insightful)
You're aware that only 8.5% of US oil imports come from Saudi Arabia, right?
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm [doe.gov]
60% of U.S. oil imports are from non-OPEC nations; OPEC nations. The single largest supplier, by volume, is Canada, followed by Mexico.
Of the OPEC nations, the biggest supplier is currently Venezuela, though they were edged out by Saudi Arabia for a couple months this year (last April and July).
Basically, if it was about the oil, we could tell them to pound sand today; we simply aren't getting that much oil from them. What the U.S. gets of of the relationship is a more or less stable Middle East.
-- Terry
Re:Normalize with these animals? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hell yes, it's a stunningly beautiful country with great food, gorgeous women, wonderful climate, great music, and friendly people. It's also extremely safe, the crime rate is next to nothing, and very cheap. That's why tens of thousands of Europeans travel there every year. Wish I could go without being labeled a criminal by my government.
Re:Pitiful attempt at moral equivilence (Score:1, Insightful)
What you see on T.V. may, at times, be the truth. What you see on T.V. is never the whole truth. The way Cuba is treating this man is exactly the way the U.S. treats people they deem potentially dangerous to the status quo, you just don't see it on T.V. In fact, the U.S. does far worse than unlawful imprisonment without due process.
Re:Can't be true (Score:3, Insightful)
How much 15 bucks is worth depends on what it buys you. 15 bucks in any country labeled "developed" is a dinner. There are countries where an US minimum wage would allow you to live like a king.
Recently there was a report of people on German social wellfare living in Thailand because what's barely enough to live in Germany pays for a quite comfortable living standard there.
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
In ANY democratic country an agent of a foreign power financing political groups would be declared persona non grata and kicked out.
Ah yes. In that case, it should be no problem for you to point to a case where an individual was jailed in, say, the United States, for handing out free stuff to political groups.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Please read this [wikipedia.org].
Some parts are very interesting:
This law defines the agent of a foreign principal as someone who:
(. . .)
Although the act was designed to broadly apply to any foreign agent (and was first used against German Nazi and Soviet propagandists), in practice FARA is frequently used to target countries out of favor with an administration (such as Venezuela or Iraq during the George W. Bush administration).
Oh, and while you're trying to think of a way to back-pedal out of this one, you should probably stop and think about just how despicable you look to every person who actually gives a damn about human rights. You're offering excuses on behalf of an oppressive dictatorship, just so you can squeeze in a cheap shot at nations which guarantee you freedoms that Cubans can only dream about. I don't know how you live with yourself.
Yeah, when the richest super power on Earth illegally embargoes and violently harasses a small, poor country of 11 million for decades those people that give a damn about human rights rejoice. But that's not news, you did it to many small poor countries before, this one is still resisting, that's all. You come talk about human WHAT??? If Castro sucked the American cock, even if he had babies for breakfast, you would love him, like many other oppressive dictators.
Re:Communism (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Anybody out there? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder when is the US going to do anything serious about the democracy deterioration in latin america.
The list of countries where democracy is falling apart is growing year by year. First it was only Cuba, but then Venezuela's Chavez joined the club. Chavez is so determined in exporting his ideology that he has successfully used the country's wealth to build alliances and undermine democracy in Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, and in less measure Argentina, and now he is trying really hard in Honduras, Peru and Colombia.
The US have done a lot about what you call "democracy deterioration" in Latin America, mostly in the seventies.
I assume you really mean they should do something about those f'n commies.
They did something back in the seventies, do you remember? A bit from the wikipedia:
From wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor [wikipedia.org] )
Operation Condor (Spanish: Operación Cóndor, Portuguese: Operação Condor), was a campaign of political repression involving assassination and intelligence operations officially implemented in 1975 by the governments of the Southern Cone of South America. The program aimed to eradicate alleged socialist and communist influence and ideas and to control active or potential opposition movements against the participating right-wing governments.[citation needed] Due to its clandestine nature, the precise number of deaths directly attributable to Operation Condor will likely never be known, but it is reported to have caused over sixty thousand [1], possibly even more.[2][3][4]
Condor's key members were the governments in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Brazil. The United States participated in a supervisory capacity, with Ecuador and Peru joining later in more peripheral roles.[5]
I don't think the US should do anything outside their borders. We are fine as we are right now.
Bolivia is a healthy democracy that recently confirmed its government. Ecuador is also. Saying that Chavez can influence Argentina is an insult to Argentina as a regional power.
About Honduras... I don't know what you think about Honduras, but Chavez is very much in line about that issue with Brazil and the rest of Mercosur. And I hope you are not trying to say that Chavez is forcing his interests on Brazil.
Re:Anybody out there? (Score:4, Insightful)
I take it you approve of the military coup in Honduras then, with its sham elections conducted in complete violation of the country's constitution? Maybe we should just let the Pentagon decide who gets to be president of the Latin American countries again, like in Reagan's reign of error. Those people can't be trusted to elect someone who supports the interests of the multi-national mega-corps over their own citizenry like the Americans do.
Re:Embargo fails. (Score:0, Insightful)
This highlights exactly why the US embargo fails. Had it been lifted many years ago, perhaps Cubans would have already overthrown their dictatorship and established a free way of life. But instead the US insists on keeping a broken embargo in place that, if removed long ago, could have paved the way for Cubans to own cell phones and laptops long before this.
Amazing.
You've managed to blame the US for Cuban misbehavoir.
Sad thing is, you probably believe it.
Re:Communism (Score:4, Insightful)
Representative democracy (what Americans usually actually mean when they talk about "democracy vs republic") does not guarantee protection for the rights of the minority. There are various examples of that in history, but the most famous one is Weimar Republic, and the state into which it ultimately transformed. Another very famous example is historical USA (remember, it was a republic while slavery was legal, and later on when Jim Crow laws were in force).
Re:But they have *free* health care... (Score:4, Insightful)
As far as the actual Havana, no, you're completely wrong. Try talking to the really old Cubans, the ones who came over before the revolution to work because it was the only way to keep their children from starving to death back home. Unlike what Gloria Estafan says, the majority lived in squalid poverty at the mercy of of the overseers who worked for the sugar companies, United Fruit, and the Mafia. People were quite literally killed just for complaining that the hacendado's kid or the factory manager had raped their daughter. There is a reason that when the Bay of Pigs invasion happened the people ran to the local armory to fight the gusanos, they didn't want them back.
Re:Normalize with these animals? (Score:4, Insightful)
Normalize travel and trade with these animals? Really?
Oh yes. Because this is the Land of the Free, and therefore your citizens have no business going to all those un-Free countries, and should be severely punished for daring to do so, or - God forbid - trying to buy anything from those animals. After all, they're already Free, and they live in the most Free place on Earth; clearly, if they travel to that evil un-Free country, they mock the very idea of Freedom. Right?
Re:Oops (Score:1, Insightful)
if i was a cuban and came across some ignorant american that wanted to help "bring democracy and freedom" to my island then i would've helped him to make that hiding place work, however long it took.
i lived and worked in the west indies for a good while; when you see first-hand the filthy and murderous behavior of america in its own back yard then it leaves an impression on you that doesn't go away.
Re:Leave Cuba Alone (Score:4, Insightful)
you could see the leader ship in Cuba might be a little paranoid
They have no need to be paranoid after the Bay of Pigs [wikipedia.org] invasion in 1961. It was a war. From this link:
Cuba's losses during the conflict are variously reported as 4,000 killed,wounded or missing [6], or about 5,000.[7] Cuban sources report over 2,200 casualties[50].
So after that little incident Cuba subscribes to the principle "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". And this guy just showed up bearing gifts.
Re:Communism (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Leave Cuba Alone (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Communism (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Communism (Score:5, Insightful)
yes yeah yeah.
What with all the embargo shit going on, cuba doesn't have a big chance to improve the economy much, do they now? Suddenly the US comes in and hands out stuff for free to only those people who are in opposition of the government.
Yes ok, so they have (or had) laws against owning a cell phone, maybe there's a good reason for that in their current situation.
I'm most definitely not a communist, but if you think cuba is the bad guy here you most certainly are deluded.
Re:Leave Cuba Alone (Score:4, Insightful)
Hear, hear! This is nothing more than just another example of this country's hypocrisy. Fighting insurgencies in Iraq while trying to jump-start their own insurgency in Cuba. Why do we still have an embargo on this small island nation anyway? Because they're Communist? Because they violate human rights? Last I checked, China does both, and yet they're our largest trade partners. Oh, I see, so when it's beneficial for us, we can look the other way and make exceptions right?
Re:Can't be true (Score:2, Insightful)
If you only look at cost, sure. Except that the US costs the most because we train the best doctors, have the best research institutes, and develop most of the new medicines -- all of which cost a metric shit ton of money.
If you'd rather pay less and have crappy treatment, be my guest. I'm crazy enough to think it's worth spending more money if it means I get top of the line medical treatment.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Eheh (Score:4, Insightful)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
Discuss.
America, land of the free. As long as you agree with the party-line. As ex-soviet reporters have commented, the differences between the soviet union and the US are not all that big. Tell me, do they still have camps for the homeless in the US? Food stamps? Waiting in line for the food kitchen?
The US has created a very smart system, it is similar to what religious groups use. Sure you can criticize, HERETIC! Just see what happens if you dare to protest against copyright... how many hundreds of millions are you fined with? No, it is not the same as being tortured and shipped to some re-education center. It is far better. People are willing to die for freedom, spend the rest of their life in poverty, not so much.
You can see the true freedom in the US with cases such as the Dixie Chicks. Freedom should be MORE then just being able to say what everyone else says. What westerners often get wrong about dictatorships like Cube, Russia, Soviet Union (Russia today is not free), China etc is that they are NOT what you see in McGuyver episodes. There isn't a commisar on every corner, not everything is monitored and controlled. Rather, they use the fear of being noticed when you dare to stand out to stop you from standing out. And they "use" a few who are allowed to stand out but are slapped down from time to time to remind everyone what happens.
Same as western society when you dare question things. Copyright, mod-chips, they might seem like minor issues but it is what the powers that be care about in the west, and if you question them, you are slapped down. For that matter, what have all dictarorships got in common? Repression of the rights of homo-sexuals (true communism would give full rights to everyone). What western country is most repressive of gay-rights? Thank you.
Be very careful about thinking you are free just because they allow you to certain freedoms. A free-range chicken still gets eaten.
Cuba uses the dollar now? (Score:3, Insightful)
"the average worker's wage is $15 a month" - No it isn't. Cuba does not use the dollar.
This is the usual bullshit propaganda from the kind of people that want you to believe that third-world workers on two dollars a day can't afford to eat. They arrive at this rubbish by pricing first-world food at first-world prices (herb ciabatta from a New York delicatessen at $4 a loaf, instead of flat bread baked by the family where the ingredients are grown by the local farmers and sold at market for less than quarter of a day's wages).
The developing world does not price its goods in dollars, nor do they shop at the deli counter. Get over it.
Re:Embargo fails. (Score:3, Insightful)
Erm, can you clarify which the other nation was and did said nation have an embargo from the biggest economy in the world on it for the same period? Did it also get attacked by said superpower? Was it victim of multiple plots at coup d'etats from said superpower?
Besides, Sweden and many other European nations are socialist, Cuba is communist. At least understand the difference between political ideologies and realise that correlation is not causation before trying to discuss such things.
Your assumption that a country is somehow better under democracy does not hold either. Iraq was more stable and had a stronger economy as a dictatorship even post first gulf war than it does now.
Different things work in different places for different people, the attitude of the American way or the high way is the reason the likes of Vietnam and Iraq ended up such bloodbaths for America and the reason Afghanistan looks like it may well end up the same.