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Television Government Media The Internet The Media Politics

NBC Believes They Own Political Discourse 259

PoliSciASU writes "MSNBC has established draconian rules regarding the use of the Presidential Primary Debates on the internet. Some examples: '5. No excerpts may be aired after 8:30 pm on Saturday, May 26th. Excerpts may not be archived. Any further use of excerpts is by express permission of MSNBC only. 6. All debate excerpts must be taped directly from MSNBC's cablecast or obtained directly from MSNBC and may not be obtained from other sources, such as satellite or other forms of transmission. No portions of the live event not aired by MSNBC may be used.' Kevin Bondelli talks about why this is 'shameful and wrong'. Voters are missing out on the ability to actually have an engaged conversation about the candidates and their debate performances because of NBC's greed." Alexander Wolfe at InformationWeek and Jeff Jarvis at BuzzMachine share similar sentiments, and discuss the matter in different ways.
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NBC Believes They Own Political Discourse

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  • Fair Use (Score:1, Interesting)

    by HaeMaker ( 221642 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @03:32AM (#18909923) Homepage
    Remember kids, A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use>Fair Use!
  • Re:Greed? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by thegrassyknowl ( 762218 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @03:39AM (#18909941)
    Control and greed go hand in hand. With money comes power. With power comes money. It's no wonder dubya is the president there - with idiot greedy rules like these being proposed. If it's too expensive to broadcast political debates then nobody will bother. The public go on even more blissfully unaware than they were before, and what's worse; most of them don't care!
  • by Facekhan ( 445017 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @04:23AM (#18910057)
    It should not qualify for copyright protection. It is not an "entertainment performance". It is not a play, it is not a television show, it is not a pundit special. What candidates say is newsworthy and anyone should be able to record their own footage or for logistical reasons MSNBC may record it on their own but they should not be able to claim copyright over the footage of a newsworthy event or else other news organizations and journalists of all stripes including bloggers should be free to record their own versions , whether openly or secretly. This is not an entertainment performance, it is not a professional sporting event, this is a political debate and the public owns it.

    How does a recording of a debate by our presidential candidates in which there is no other content other than the debate itself and the MSNBC is simply acting as the host and moderator qualify as a creative work that is eligible for copyright?

    In addition, is not the debate itself newsworthy and therefore not an entertainment event that could be restricted as to who may record it or later show it.
  • by VE3OGG ( 1034632 ) <`VE3OGG' `at' `rac.ca'> on Saturday April 28, 2007 @04:40AM (#18910107)
    I was under the impression that any government work was paid for by tax dollars and was therefore covered under public domain laws. Surely the taping of an event does not, by some magical feat, erase the fact that it is a government production, and ergo the public may use any footage of it as they please?
  • by mackyrae ( 999347 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @05:02AM (#18910185) Homepage
    Apathetic wankers like you are the reason this country's going to Hell in a handbasket. Votes matter. If you think there is anything wrong with this country but you did not vote you CANNOT complain. You had the chance to do something about it, but you didn't. Voting is not just for old people. Everyone capable of making an informed decision should vote. Check out a voter guide, decide with which candidate you agree the most, and take 10 minutes out of your lunch hour to vote in primaries and general elections. It's really not that difficult. People who can vote but don't suck. Hell, my roommate knew the election in her state was going to be close, but by election day her absentee ballot hadn't shown up. She caught a train home so she could vote.
  • by Derling Whirvish ( 636322 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @05:07AM (#18910199) Journal
    The King family has long held and defended the rights to the "I have a dream" speech that Dr King gave on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. You can't reproduce that speech without obtaining permission and paying a royalty event though it was broadcast live on CBS and is an important part of American political history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_of_Martin_Luth er_King%2C_Jr.%2C_Inc._v._CBS%2C_Inc [wikipedia.org].

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 28, 2007 @05:30AM (#18910265)
    Perhaps someone should buy the domain www.2007presidentialdebate.com and host the debate in its entirety. Wait for the pulldown notices to come in, and then start a brouhaha to get more public attention about this issue.
  • by nadaou ( 535365 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @06:44AM (#18910473) Homepage

    The powers that be don't care which one gets elected... they own them all!

    I've often heard the "it doesn't matter which major party I vote for, they're the same" line. Baloney and Fiddlesticks! Just a weak rationalization from those too lazy to exercise their responsibilities as citizens I say.

    Do people honestly think that Life on Earth would be the same right now if we had seen a President Gore or President Kerry? Personally I won't give Rupert Murdoch and his fellow corporate media illuminati club that much fnord credit.

    "They" care who gets elected as it touches their bottom line in a real way when, say, the governement tells you that you have to, in one case, clean up your residential toxic waste dump, or in the other case it looks the other way by (the illegal) non-enforcement of laws already on the books.
  • by I_Voter ( 987579 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @09:00AM (#18911103)

    I've often heard the "it doesn't matter which major party I vote for, they're the same" line. Baloney and Fiddlesticks! Just a weak rationalization from those too lazy to exercise their responsibilities as citizens I say.

    However, would you agree with the following sentence?

    Although the pile of democratic nations has been growing, when the ability of U.S. voters to influence their government is considered,- the U.S. voter is close to the bottom of that pile!

  • Re:Fair Use (Score:3, Interesting)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @09:01AM (#18911107)
    I don't think the (rather limited) fair use exemptions are the right answer in this case. Instead, the entire contents of the debate should be public domain. There are any number of universities that would be happy to hold a presidential debate without these restrictions, and I'm sure the press would still cover these debates.

    For comparison, I see no draconian restrictions on the Congressional Record [gpoaccess.gov].

  • third parties (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ChristTrekker ( 91442 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @09:05AM (#18911123)

    If you're not voting third party, you're wasting your vote.

    If you don't vote what you believe, you'll never get what you want.

    The people elect the government they deserve.

    Two options is only one more than they had in the Soviet Union.

    Every November the same party wins: the Politician Party.

    A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

    It amazes me that for all the talk of reform and eliminating corruption in government, no one ever addresses the fundamental issue: lack of choices, which is caused directly by our (plurality) voting method. Give non-Dem/Rep voices a fair and equal chance to discuss and promote the merits of their platform instead of dismissing them outright. This means changing the voting system to something that doesn't predetermine the "leading two". Anything other than this is a charade. A previous poster had it right - "they" don't care who wins, because it's still one of "them". The real danger (in "their" minds) is if an outsider were to get in and shake things up. Yes, the past 6 years have really demonstrated the truth in "not a dime's worth of difference". Who'd've thought that a member of the "party of Reagan" would preside over the largest budget increase in history? Both parties want bigger government, so they can curtail your rights - whether they grab them from the left or the right makes no difference in the end.

  • by Manchot ( 847225 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @09:46AM (#18911347)
    Well, the most obvious one that comes to mind is that if Gore had won, a) we wouldn't be in Iraq and b) we'd still have standing in the international community.
  • Good and Bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by theophilosophilus ( 606876 ) on Saturday April 28, 2007 @11:45AM (#18911933) Homepage Journal
    From a Constitutional perspective, this is good and bad. Constitutional analysis generally hinges on text, history, policy and precedent. Article 1 section 8 clause 8 (IP clause) would definitely support NBC's position. Further, the First Amendment would arguably dictate that NBC cannot be compelled to "speak" through the disclosure of its "expressive" production. The history also supports NBC, news organizations have nearly always charged for their political coverage, so the framers arguably had this in mind.

    However, the values or policy behind the First Amendment run up against those of the IP Clause in this instance.
    There are two competing policies at issue here.
    1. The goal of a fully informed voting public.
    2. The goal of incentivising the production and distribution of political information.

    The "marketplace of ideas" and "good government" theories are recurrent in First Amendment jurisprudence. Requiring dissemination would add information to the marketplace of ideas and provide for good government through a well informed electorate. Two other policy factors are relevant, political speech is the most protected form under the First Amendment and monopolies on political information should be highly scrutinized. The policy side seems to be weighted in favor of unrestricted distribution.

    The precedent would tend to view the copyright act as a facially neutral generally applicable law with only incidental effects and therefore, regardless of the political nature, valid. For example, in Cohen v. Cowles Media Co. a Republican campaign worker provided documents relating to criminal charges against a Democratic candidate. Cohen did so under a contract for confidentiality. When the Tribune found out the Democrat's charge was merely for participation in a political protest, the paper published the fact that Cohen provided the information. Cohen sued and won. The Supreme Court upheld the award over a First Amendment challenge because the theory of Minnesota law Cohen won on was generally applicable. The point is, the information at issue was very relevant to the political process but could be regulated regardless. (note that Cohen is a press clause case as opposed to a free speech case). The same is true of copyright law, it is only an incidental regulation and is generally applicable because it does not target political speech.

    Ultimately, if the NBC video showed up on YouTube, an argument could be made that it should not be protected by copyright. The argument would boil down to the policy of promoting political news coverage versus the need for disemination of that coverage. Applying copyright law here is both good and bad (don't forget Slashdotters the GPL is a copyright).
  • by belmolis ( 702863 ) <billposerNO@SPAMalum.mit.edu> on Saturday April 28, 2007 @02:23PM (#18912991) Homepage

    There is a simple solution to excessive restriction by broadcasters of the presidential debates and such: change copyright law. Remember, copyright is not some sort of natural right - it is a privilege granted by legislation under a constitutional provision that explicitly gives as its purpose the public benefit. If broadcasters, political parties, and the like use copyright in a way that is against the public interest, let's take away the privilege.

    What I suggest is that copyright law be amended to exempt certain categories of political speech. Perhaps the exemption should be broader, but for present purposes, let's say that copyright will not apply to any speech or writing (e.g. position paper) by a candidate for public office made during his or her campaign. The broadcasters and publishers will still cover these events - they will lose only residual royalties, which are hardly necessary to support their business.

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