Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
The Internet Government Politics Your Rights Online

China's New Internet Plan 259

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the i-don't-want-to-wash-the-people's-internet dept.
eldavojohn writes "The internet in China is diverging rapidly from the state that the rest of the world enjoys it. Recent news of China's leader, Hu Jintao, has revealed a strategy to distort it even further. Jintao is tackling the issue his Communist party is having with the youth of China that are too young to remember Chairman Mao and the fanaticism the populace had for him. A strategy he is proposing is 'cleaning up' China's internet & lacing it with a little propaganda like the need to 'Consolidate the guiding status of Marxism in the ideological sphere' online. The meeting notes also declared that 'Development and administration of Internet culture must stick to the direction of socialist advanced culture, adhere to correct propaganda guidance.'"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

China's New Internet Plan

Comments Filter:
  • Echoes of 1936 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Billosaur (927319) * <wgrother@NosPAm.optonline.net> on Monday April 23, 2007 @01:53PM (#18842789) Journal

    The Communist Party is preparing for a congress later this year that is set to give Hu another five-year term and open the way for him to choose eventual successors. In 2008, Beijing hosts the Olympic Games, when the party's economic achievements will be on display, along with its political and media controls.

    The parallels to the Olympics of 1936 are kind of eerie -- then it was Hitler attempting to show off German might and industry, his neat and orderly Aryan society, and the superiority of the German race. Perhaps this is not as sinister, but it is certainly disturbing.

    • by Zarhan (415465)
      The parallels to the Olympics of 1936 are kind of eerie -- then it was Hitler attempting to show off German might and industry, his neat and orderly Aryan society, and the superiority of the German race. Perhaps this is not as sinister, but it is certainly disturbing.

      So who's going to be the Jesse Owens of 2008?
      • by Aminion (896851)

        So who's going to be the Jesse Owens of 2008?
        Hopefully a Tibetan guy/girl.
      • by DeadChobi (740395)
        Ahh, Jesse Owens. Clearly a fine exemplar of the Aryan race... OH SNAP!
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        I don't recall the Chinese claiming to be any kind of master race, so some guy beating them at running really isn't going to bother them that much. I guess getting whipped at gymnastics might annoy the people who came up with the whole gymnastics boot camp thing, but it's really not going to piss on their whole ideology like Jesse Owen did the the Nazis.
    • Silly to draw any conclusions from two datapoints, but: Nazi Germany hosted the Olympics in 1936, and by the 1948 Olympics they were no more. Soviet Russia hosted the Olympics in 1980, and by the 1992 Olympics they were gone. Now Red China is hosting in 2008. Any predictions for 2020?

  • by zappepcs (820751) on Monday April 23, 2007 @01:53PM (#18842795) Journal
    I do not buy anything made in China. Its not easy to find out what parts of a laptop of computer are made in China, so my plan isn't foolproof, but it's what I know that I can do to stop support for the Chinese government.

    What else can people do? Ideas?
    • We can bring democracy to them - works every time!
    • by giorgiofr (887762) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:00PM (#18842887)
      Erm, you're only stopping support for Chinese manufacturers, I'm afraid. Their gov't is totally unintersted in your actions. If what you're thinking about goes along the lines of stopping support for their industries so that the people will rebel against a gov't that, by alienating foreigners, takes their livelihood away: remember that China will shortly be a self-substaining market.
      I believe there is no way to make the Chinese gov't change their mind. Only the peoples of China can choose to get rid of it, and apparently they're not really that keen on doing so.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by beckerist (985855)
        ...or they ARE keen to and are immediately silenced. [com.com]
      • by grumpyman (849537) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:54PM (#18843665)
        . Only the peoples of China can choose to get rid of it, and apparently they're not really that keen on doing so.


        How do you know that they're not really keen? You need another 1989 to prove that they're keen?

    • by CastrTroy (595695)
      How do you know that stuff you buy isn't made using stuff made in China? Plus I'm not sure if it's possible to live like a normal person in society without somehow supporting china. You buy a drink from McDonald's, the cup is probably made in China. You can try to reduce it, but I don't think you're going to get very far.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Opportunist (166417)
      I remember George Carlin coming on stage waving a flag of (I think) Japan and saying "I wave this flag for the reason that it was the only one I could find that was made in the USA".

      I find it kinda bizarre to buy a US flag only to find out that it's made in China. No kidding, I still have it as proof.
      • by jez9999 (618189)
        I find it kinda bizarre to buy a US flag only to find out that it's made in China ... not. Most of your fabrics (clothes) are manufactured there; why would a flag be any different? Seriously, it's moronic to think you're making some kind of a political statement to say that your flag needs to be manufactured in your country. It doesn't mean you can't still wave it just as patriotically.
    • by SQL Error (16383) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:03PM (#18842929)
      Buy stuff made in Taiwan. There's plenty of it, it's cheap, usually good, and it'll piss off the Chinese.

      Except that a growing number of Taiwanese companies have factories on the mainland these days...
      • by orzetto (545509)

        Buy stuff made in Taiwan. There's plenty of it, it's cheap, usually good, and it'll piss off the Chinese.

        Except that, for very interesting and intricate historical reasons [wikipedia.org], both the ROC and the PRC mark their products as "made in China", as both governments (at least formally) consider themselves the government of both mainland and Taiwan. I would not be surprised if the ROC had a law to ensure that producers use "Made in China" instead of "Made in Taiwan", this used to be a hot political issue.

        • by vidarh (309115)
          Funny how I've bought lots of stuff over the years that says "Made in Taiwan" then...
    • by jcr (53032)
      I do not buy anything made in China

      Your heart's in the right place, but that doesn't help. What's going to bring down the commies in China is increasing prosperity, which will bring with it improved internal communications. If the protestors in 1989 had been able to communicate with the whole country the way they can today, we'd be reading about China's elections today.

      -jcr

    • I do not buy anything made in China. Its not easy to find out what parts of a laptop of computer are made in China, so my plan isn't foolproof, but it's what I know that I can do to stop support for the Chinese government.

      What else can people do? Ideas?

      My idea is that you do exactly the opposite. Buy stuff that is made in China. This encourages the development of a capitalistic middle class.
      It helps develop a group of Chinese people who know more about the west than their government tells them ( they have to learn about their markets ) and who work with private banks ( they have to when they do large scale business in the west ) and who like private property.

      In other words, it encourages the growth of a group of people whose values and beliefs are

  • Status Quo (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FooGoo (98336) on Monday April 23, 2007 @01:54PM (#18842803)
    This sounds like every other government/corporate plan to me so it's governance/business as usual. When will goverments and corps realize that the internet doesn't belong to them. It belongs to the users we just allow them to use it and profit from it if we so desire. If you can't compete on your own merits as a company, ideology, or political system this is not the place for you.
    FG
    • You forget (Score:3, Insightful)

      by d3ac0n (715594)
      That communism isn't about competition. Communism is about eliminating all competing ideas and asserting absolute control over every aspect of life. The communist leaders understand perfectly well about the "competition of ideas". They also know they can't compete because communism is a failed ideology. Thusly they seek to control access to information and keep their people in the dark. It's typical totalitarianism.

      (To the commie trolls: Yes, I KNOW that's not how communism and socialism is supposed t
      • That has got to be one of the most insightful things I've read on /. in ages.
      • Human Nature (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Mateo_LeFou (859634) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:56PM (#18843699) Homepage
        I don't think I'm a commie troll, but I think that at least part of your objection applies to capitalist systems as well.

        If I were playing devil's advocate I might say "capitalism cannot possibly work the way its designers envisioned because they didn't take corporate nature into account." For example, there is a tendency in corporocracy to treat *everything as a transaction and *everything as property (see for example "intellectual property", the privatization of drinking water, etc).

        I think the fact that corporations have co-opted our ostensibly democratic government so thoroughly is almost as serious an indictment of capitalism as the corrupted Party's betrayal of basic democratic principles in the Reddish parts of the world.

        Just thinking aloud, really.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by jcr (53032)
          Capitalism isn't "designed", it's a consequence of free markets. Any time you save some of your income to invest in your own or another business, you're practicing capitalism. ADM and the other corporate welfare queens aren't a result of freedom, they're a result of government having usurped our power to decide which businesses to pay or not pay for their products or services. If you want an end to corporations looting the taxpayers, you can start by voting for Ron Paul.

          -jcr

          • by vidarh (309115)
            Capitalism isn't "designed", it's a consequence of free markets.

            Funny you should phrase it that way. It is very much a central tenet of Marxism that communism isn't "designed", it's an inevitable consequence of class struggle, and more directly of capitalism.

          • I wish I could put a <blink> tag in there.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by AlphaWolf_HK (692722)
          Nobody designed capitalism. Capitalism more or less happened as people felt the need for certain things like e.g. money. I tend to think of as being the more civilized cousin of natural selection. Natural selection doesn't guarantee you a better species, nor a perfect one. But it does move in the direction of providing the fittest. Likewise, capitalism doesn't guarantee the best outcome or the best products. It does however move rapidly into the direction that the society as a whole chooses. In the course o
        • by AnyoneEB (574727)
          I was just talking about capitalism vs. communism with a friend the other day and he pointed out an amusing point of view: in communism, the government controls everything, only the government has to get corrupt for everything to go bad; in capitalism, the power is shared among the government and various corporations, sometimes the work together, but sometimes they work against each other, so they are a bit less effective at making trouble for the populace.-
        • Are there any capitalist states in the developed world? It seems that they are all socialist.
      • by vertinox (846076)
        The problem is that in practice it cannot possibly work the way it's designers envisioned it because they didn't take human nature into account.

        I would beg to differ. Communism worked under Stalin.

        If you execute thousands of people and sends millions off to gulags on a yearly basis, then Communism works as Stalin intended and can basically overcome anything capitalism throws at it. They went from a backwards medieval agricultural country to a technological/industrial super power in less than 20 years.

        Of cou
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Red Flayer (890720)
        So let's stop calling it communism-with-a-small-c, and call a spade a spade: Totalitarian China. Or maybe Fascist China?

        If that's a little too far, then we should make the distinction between communism and the Communist Party Government of China -- we shouldn't allow the Chinese to pretend they are something they are not (and in the same vein, we should stop referring to the US as a democracy). Labels have power, and the Chinese political machine knows it.
    • When will goverments and corps realize that the internet doesn't belong to them.

      When they are forced to admit it at gunpoint.

      Seriously, the persepctive of modern corporations and governments is that there is no such thing as public property in the traditional sense -- everything has to be owned by someone. Government ownership != public ownership anymore (if it ever did).

      If you can't compete on your own merits as a company, ideology, or political system this is not the place for you.

      Well, if they can le

  • by giorgiofr (887762) on Monday April 23, 2007 @01:55PM (#18842827)
    I know it's not really what the TFB is about, but does anyone have any tech details about the Great Firewall of China? How does it work, is it some kind of giant NAT? Are there blacklist-based IP filtering, real-time content filtering? Are ISPs routes set up so that foreign IPs can only be reached via a few select routers that do the censoring?
    • by sharp-bang (311928) <<sharp.bang.slashdot> <at> <gmail.com>> on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:01PM (#18842895) Homepage
      Wikipedia is your friend [wikipedia.org] YMMV. ;-)

      I remember the part about circumventing blocking by ignoring the reset packets being publicized about a year ago. Dunno if it was ever fixed, though.
      • by Dogtanian (588974) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:26PM (#18843279) Homepage

        Wikipedia is your friend
        Wikipedia is not your friend. It's only pretending to be so that it can play with your shiny new Playstation 3.

        Next week: We reveal that Digg doesn't really love you, and is just using you for sex.
        • And slashdot mod this informative?

          We're either good at modding stuff and have an okay system, or we're the tribal tribe of digg, where we think our shit don't smell.
      • by gad_zuki! (70830)
        The wikipedia is absolutely not your friend. The last issue of 2600 had the best technical analysis of the 'great firewall' I've read. The wiki article is pretty slim on information and facts. It reads like a general 'how things can be blocked' article.
    • by thewils (463314)
      If there's content that is being blocked by the GFOC, how about a concerted effort by webmasters of sites that aren't currently blocked to provide a webring of sorts to each carry some blocked content.

      I'm sure this sort of thing can be organized over the net in time for - say the Beijing Olympics, when the Chinese will have world focus, and lots of other things on their hands at the same time.

      Just a thought. It would need a website where you could sign up to either provide or host some content (just a page
  • "Consolidate the guiding status of Marxism in the ideological sphere"

    "Development and administration of Internet culture must stick to the direction of socialist advanced culture, adhere to correct propaganda guidance"

    "Internet cultural units must conscientiously take on the responsibility of encouraging development of a system of core socialist values"

    Boy, does that Politburo know how to turn a phrase. I know I'm inspired.

    And what, exactly, is an "Internet cultural unit"?
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by GCP (122438)
      And what, exactly, is an "Internet cultural unit"?

      It appears that this is Marxist political terminology for, um, Slashdot.

      "... must conscientiously take on the responsibility of encouraging development of a system of core socialist values"

    • by mi (197448)

      Boy, does that Politburo know how to turn a phrase. I know I'm inspired.

      Of course they do. Its easy — just look around this very forum, where a dozens of morons are already posting "insightful" comments on how America's evil corporationy corporations are controlling our minds just as bad as Chinese totalitarians are trying to control their subjects'.

      All, they know about Communism, they learned from "Motorcyle Diaries" and other scumbag-romanticizing crap like that...

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) on Monday April 23, 2007 @01:56PM (#18842831) Journal
    In China the communist party wants to woo another generation with the story of how the revolution was made. Why cant they hire the guy who wrote "How StarWars was made" to write another book "How the Revolution was made".? If there is one thing Chinese communists really like it would be Force, I guess.
  • In the meantime (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iamacat (583406) on Monday April 23, 2007 @01:59PM (#18842875)
    US announced sweeping controls of radiowaves whereby an oligarchy of a dozen media companies will promptly fire anyone who contradicts the official culture by quoting a best selling rap singer.
    • by mi (197448)

      So long as the quoted singer remains free and best-selling (along with fierce government critics like Michael Moore), things aren't so bad here, are they?

    • US announced sweeping controls of radiowaves whereby an oligarchy of a dozen media companies will promptly fire anyone who contradicts the official culture by quoting a best selling rap singer.

      If you really can't see the difference, then I'm not sure what to say to you.

      P.J. O'Rourke is a bit harsh (I would choose a different last word for the quote) but he's pithy:

      "Life is full of ironies for the stupid".
  • Marxism?! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Aminion (896851)
    Now that China is rapidly transforming into a market economy, what Marxism is there to speak of? Or maybe the good chairman wishes to enlighted the Chinese youth of the crimes of communism in China and atrocities committed by his predecessors? It would be a great lesson in how a fundamentally flawed ideology can retard a nation with great potential for decades and decades.
    • How much Marx have you read? Marxism is primarily a critical and descriptive apparatus, rather than a prescriptive one. A great deal of very interesting and valuable work has been inspired by and built upon the Marxist tradition. To dismiss the whole shebang as a "fundamentally flawed ideology" is deeply misguided.

      I'm certainly not trying to defend the Chinese government here, but it's interesting to see how decades of American Cold War propaganda continues to circulate.

    • I find the Chinese talking about Marxism to be quite amusing, seeing as they have never been a Marxist nation, and basicly piss on Marx's ideas every day of the week. Mao was even worse than Stalin at twisting Marx's ideas to his own insane bullshit, Maoism wasn't even close to Marxism. The chinese communist party wouldn't know what Marxism was if someone bitch slapped them with the communist manifesto.
    • by vidarh (309115)
      What Marxism was there ever to speak of in China? I'm not aware of much... Care to enlighten us, combined with references to what part of Marx' works it's related to?
  • Doesn't...? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:07PM (#18842991)
    Doesn't the Internet route around damage?
    • by McDutchie (151611)

      Doesn't the Internet route around damage?

      Yeah. It'll route around China just fine.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by gknoy (899301)

      Doesn't the Internet route around damage?


      Yes. However, if you're on the inside of the damage, that doesn't help you much. The rest of the world can go on uninterrupted, but China's citizens are getting a very different view.
  • by Bazman (4849) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:20PM (#18843187) Journal
    A: Who is the Chinese President?
    C: Yes.
    A: Who?
    C: I told you.
    A: When?
    C: Wen is the Premier.
    A: When is the Premier what?
    C: The Premier of China.
    A: Who is the Premier?
    C: No, Hu is the President!
    A: That's what I wanna know!

    and so on...
  • And have the party cadres live like the proletarians? I am a hardline libertarian myself, but I think even Marx would be quite disturbed to see how these revolutions have gone. At least the old regimes had honesty. The ruling class was not part of the rest of society. Funny thing is that at least in Europe, you were probably in real terms freer in the 18th or 19th centuries than you are today by a pretty wide margin. "Advanced socialist society" is a nice way of saying "we think the cost of scientific advan
  • by unity100 (970058) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:27PM (#18843295) Homepage Journal
    Same kind of people everywhere. Bunch of retarded morons that are relics of cold war age, struggling to FORCE the youth to live like they did.

    They need to die off fast so that the new ages can have a good chance.
    • by drinkypoo (153816)

      They need to die off fast so that the new ages can have a good chance.

      ...to grow up and to become the fascists.

      Everyone in the Chinese government today was a child once.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by unity100 (970058)
        what era do children grow up, matters much.

        these were the ones who grew up in ww2 and start of the cold war. the furthest extent their vision can go has been long walked past by.
  • The internet in China is diverging rapidly from the state that the rest of the world enjoys it.

    1) eldavojohn rarely does this, but I believe the first sentence contains a serious grammatical hiccup.

    2) Communists finally discovering that totalitarianism needs proper planning/resources to be implemented right on the internet. New age of confrontation begins, but frankly I think the commies will lose this one. When the main battlefields are lost to censorship, Chinese youth will be wondering why they can't access general information websites.

    This said, I think wikipedia and other places should begin in

    • Would it be ok to solicit the help of our intelligence agencies, me wonders?

      Sure it would, because then we'd know for sure who was doing the tampering.
  • But who cares? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hackingbear (988354) on Monday April 23, 2007 @02:53PM (#18843651)
    This may sound like a big trouble to you who are not in China.

    But nowaday in China, no ordinary people pay any attention to these kind of useless propaganda any more. (Students may have to memorize this thing so they can pass the exams, but I can ensure you it has zero impact on their mental state otherwise, as it hasn't had any on mine when I was a student there in 1980's.)

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jez9999 (618189)
      as it hasn't had any on mine when I was a student there in 1980's.

      Were you brought up in the US and went to study in China, already having decided on your outlook, or did you grow up from early childhood in China? Big difference.
  • I see lots of Chinese in Second Life these days and they're in world to talk, exchange ideas, and get information about the rest of the world because the SL grid is outside of censor controls. Short of blocking SL right out, or co-oping Linden Labs to parse every chat/IM/and image I don't see this changing anytime soon. This isn't just special to SL, I'm sure many of the international MMO's and Metaverses that Chinese access by pass censorship as well.

    I also think the common person there is about fed up wit
  • New Google ads for China:

    Cheap Car Insurance
    Remember our Communist Utopia
    And save 100's!

    20% off Nike Shoes
    Buy direct from the factory
    Uncle Mao is watching

    Chinese Singles
    See hundreds of photos
    No capitalists dogs

"Pull the trigger and you're garbage." -- Lady Blue

Working...