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UK's Blair Dismisses Online Anti ID-Card Petition 377

An anonymous reader writes "Prime Minister Tony Blair has responded personally via email to 28,000 online petitioners opposing the UK's planned identity card scheme, and has closed the online petition. The email reads: 'We live in a world in which people, money and information are more mobile than ever before. Terrorists and international criminal gangs increasingly exploit this to move undetected across borders and to disappear within countries. Terrorists routinely use multiple identities — up to 50 at a time... ID cards which contain biometric recognition details and which are linked to a National Identity Register will make this much more difficult.'"
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UK's Blair Dismisses Online Anti ID-Card Petition

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  • Better link (Score:5, Informative)

    by baadger ( 764884 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @04:32AM (#18079056)
    Link to the actual petition -> here [pm.gov.uk]
  • by rj21 ( 852127 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @04:50AM (#18079136)
    "Prime Minister Tony Blair has...... closed the online petition."

    There was a deadline for signatures and it has passed. Blair has responded to the petitioners after the petition was complete. That sounds more like he was pissed of with it and closed the petition. The fact that the prime minister personally closed the petition was the item in this story that pissed me off the most and that wasn't even true.

    There's plenty we can moan at Blair for without making things up.
  • Closing the petition (Score:5, Informative)

    by iainl ( 136759 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @04:55AM (#18079158)
    Umm, I think Blair is a duplicitous murdering sack of shit as much as the next guy, but the petition was always going to end on the 15th of February as a fixed closing date. From the FAQ page:

    How long will my petition run for? You can decide how long your petition can run for and we will carry it for up to 12 months.
    Besides, telling 28,000 people that they've given the wrong answer, and should go away and think about it until they realise he's right is nothing. He did exactly the same to the more than a million people who marched in London against invading Iraq, and is about to do so to the 1.6 million who have signed the road pricing and car tracking scheme at the top of the "most popular" list on that site as well.
  • by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @04:58AM (#18079172) Homepage

    The e-petition to "scrap the proposed introduction of ID cards" has now closed. The petition stated that "The introduction of ID cards will not prevent terrorism or crime, as is claimed. It will be yet another indirect tax on all law-abiding citizens of the UK". This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

    The petition calling for the Government to abandon plans for a National ID Scheme attracted almost 28,000 signatures - one of the largest responses since this e-petition service was set up. So I thought I would reply personally to those who signed up, to explain why the Government believes National ID cards, and the National Identity Register needed to make them effective, will help make Britain a safer place.

    The petition disputes the idea that ID cards will help reduce crime or terrorism. While I certainly accept that ID cards will not prevent all terrorist outrages or crime, I believe they will make an important contribution to making our borders more secure, countering fraud, and tackling international crime and terrorism. More importantly, this is also what our security services - who have the task of protecting this country - believe.

    So I would like to explain why I think it would be foolish to ignore the opportunity to use biometrics such as fingerprints to secure our identities. I would also like to discuss some of the claims about costs - particularly the way the cost of an ID card is often inflated by including in estimates the cost of a biometric passport which, it seems certain, all those who want to travel abroad will soon need.

    In contrast to these exaggerated figures, the real benefits for our country and its citizens from ID cards and the National Identity Register, which will contain less information on individuals than the data collected by the average store card, should be delivered for a cost of around £3 a year over its ten-year life.

    But first, it's important to set out why we need to do more to secure our identities and how I believe ID cards will help. We live in a world in which people, money and information are more mobile than ever before. Terrorists and international criminal gangs increasingly exploit this to move undetected across borders and to disappear within countries. Terrorists routinely use multiple identities - up to 50 at a time. Indeed this is an essential part of the way they operate and is specifically taught at Al-Qaeda training camps. One in four criminals also uses a false identity. ID cards which contain biometric recognition details and which are linked to a National Identity Register will make this much more difficult.

    Secure identities will also help us counter the fast-growing problem of identity fraud. This already costs £1.7 billion annually. There is no doubt that building yourself a new and false identity is all too easy at the moment. Forging an ID card and matching biometric record will be much harder.

    I also believe that the National Identity Register will help police bring those guilty of serious crimes to justice. They will be able, for example, to compare the fingerprints found at the scene of some 900,000 unsolved crimes against the information held on the register. Another benefit from biometric technology will be to improve the flow of information between countries on the identity of offenders.

    The National Identity Register will also help improve protection for the vulnerable, enabling more effective and quicker checks on those seeking to work, for example, with children. It should make it much more difficult, as has happened tragically in the past, for people to slip through the net.

    Proper identity management and ID cards also have an important role to play in preventing illegal immigration and illegal working. The effectiveness on the new biometric technology is, in fact, already being seen. In trials using this technology on visa applications at just nine overseas posts, our officials have already uncovered 1,400 people trying illegally to get back into

  • Re:Better link (Score:5, Informative)

    by blane.bramble ( 133160 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @05:10AM (#18079246)
    E-petition: Response from the Prime Minister

    The e-petition to "scrap the proposed introduction of ID cards" has now closed. The petition stated that "The introduction of ID cards will not prevent terrorism or crime, as is claimed. It will be yet another indirect tax on all law-abiding citizens of the UK". This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

    The petition calling for the Government to abandon plans for a National ID Scheme attracted almost 28,000 signatures - one of the largest responses since this e-petition service was set up. So I thought I would reply personally to those who signed up, to explain why the Government believes National ID cards, and the National Identity Register needed to make them effective, will help make Britain a safer place.

    The petition disputes the idea that ID cards will help reduce crime or terrorism. While I certainly accept that ID cards will not prevent all terrorist outrages or crime, I believe they will make an important contribution to making our borders more secure, countering fraud, and tackling international crime and terrorism. More importantly, this is also what our security services - who have the task of protecting this country - believe.

    So I would like to explain why I think it would be foolish to ignore the opportunity to use biometrics such as fingerprints to secure our identities. I would also like to discuss some of the claims about costs - particularly the way the cost of an ID card is often inflated by including in estimates the cost of a biometric passport which, it seems certain, all those who want to travel abroad will soon need.

    In contrast to these exaggerated figures, the real benefits for our country and its citizens from ID cards and the National Identity Register, which will contain less information on individuals than the data collected by the average store card, should be delivered for a cost of around £3 a year over its ten-year life.

    But first, it's important to set out why we need to do more to secure our identities and how I believe ID cards will help. We live in a world in which people, money and information are more mobile than ever before. Terrorists and international criminal gangs increasingly exploit this to move undetected across borders and to disappear within countries. Terrorists routinely use multiple identities - up to 50 at a time. Indeed this is an essential part of the way they operate and is specifically taught at Al-Qaeda training camps. One in four criminals also uses a false identity. ID cards which contain biometric recognition details and which are linked to a National Identity Register will make this much more difficult.

    Secure identities will also help us counter the fast-growing problem of identity fraud. This already costs £1.7 billion annually. There is no doubt that building yourself a new and false identity is all too easy at the moment. Forging an ID card and matching biometric record will be much harder.

    I also believe that the National Identity Register will help police bring those guilty of serious crimes to justice. They will be able, for example, to compare the fingerprints found at the scene of some 900,000 unsolved crimes against the information held on the register. Another benefit from biometric technology will be to improve the flow of information between countries on the identity of offenders.

    The National Identity Register will also help improve protection for the vulnerable, enabling more effective and quicker checks on those seeking to work, for example, with children. It should make it much more difficult, as has happened tragically in the past, for people to slip through the net.

    Proper identity management and ID cards also have an important role to play in preventing illegal immigration and illegal working. The effectiveness on the new biometric technology is, in fact, already being seen. In trials using this technology on visa applications at just nine overseas posts, our officials have already uncovered 1,400 pe
  • by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @05:19AM (#18079298) Homepage

    I would also like to discuss some of the claims about costs - particularly the way the cost of an ID card is often inflated by including in estimates the cost of a biometric passport which, it seems certain, all those who want to travel abroad will soon need.
    This is bollocks, first of all there is no requirement from any country in the world for the kind of biometric information they are proposing putting on these ID cards and it would be a lot easier to change the current passports to include what they actually need to include without building this whole ID scheme around it.
  • This was expected (Score:3, Informative)

    by LizardKing ( 5245 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @05:44AM (#18079450)

    Nothing surprising about this move. The petitions were only allowed for the same reason that public enquiries are allowed. They create an illusion of consultation, but because they usually come to the attention of only a few particularly interested people any opposition to the government view can be safely ignored. What the government failed to consider with online petitions are that they can be easily filled in by people once they have been informed of their existence by the same medium - the internet. This is why government sources described the person who came up wih the idea as an idiot last week (I'm not joking).

    In this particular case the comnpanies that stand to make a fortune from government contracts to bring in the ID card are the same companies providing directorships to former ministers, MPs and civil servants. The so called "revolving door". As the right dishonourable Tony Blair MP is soon to be out of a job he's more than likely to go the extra mile to keep these companies happy. He needs a job after leaving office, as his mortgage commitments are astronomical (again, I'm not joking).

  • by alexpage ( 210348 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @05:58AM (#18079510)

    No2ID [no2id.net], the UK's leading campaign against the National Identity Card and the Database State, realised even before this petition was launched that the site exists only to encourage "fire and forget" activism from people. People signing up to No2ID are encouraged to subscribe to a fortnightly e-mail newsletter which keeps them up to date with the latest news on ID Cards in Government and across the country.

    The No2ID campaign has encouraged a 30% swing in public opinion against Identity Cards, has encouraged councils and other organisations across the country to oppose the Government's plans, and formed a wide alliance of political parties and unions from all sides of the spectrum in opposition to this scheme. It's unlikely that the Tories would have come out against ID cards (albeit in a half-arsed way) without No2ID's influence.

    If people want to make a difference, joining and supporting No2ID is the best way to do so. There are local groups nationwide, which can always benefit from more supporters.

  • by correctguru ( 1066334 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @06:07AM (#18079548)
    If only that happened in the UK!! Here you get to vote for a party once every five years nationally , local government more often. Problem is UK politics loves to force "ideal" solutions. There is some discussion in the media to pay lip service to democracy and if the govt has an overall majority they steam role ahead with their ideas. The USA has a similar system to Switzerland where if you have enough signatures you can get a ballot going. If you have enough of a gripe you can do something about it. Thomas Jefferson had the right idea and designed US politicial system to be constantly compromising so that no one view could be forced. Hung parliaments and small majorities create good politics as they make politicians have to please the people. Look how Bush has changed his tone now the democrats are running things. US Presidents look with envy at the "efficiency" of UK politics. UK Government is using terrorism as a tool to force its oppressive nanny state agenda. This is a very safe country compared with Iraq or Afganistan or downtown LA. This government is making more fuss about terrorism than at the time of the IRA threat which I remember clearly. We have about as much chance being blown up by terrorists as winning the lottery. I would rather risk my life daily that lose my freedom and privacy. Driving a car is more dangerous!
  • by alexpage ( 210348 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @06:08AM (#18079552)
    To be fair, No2ID [no2id.net] didn't particularly encourage people to sign this petition; they knew from the get-go that it would be a waste of time, compared to encouraging people to sign up to the No2ID campaign where they will be kept up-to-date with the latest news and given the oppotunity to participate in a local group campaigning to local government and media...
  • Join No2ID.org (Score:5, Informative)

    by Cally ( 10873 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @06:25AM (#18079626) Homepage
    If you're a UK citizen and can see what a bad implementation of a disastrous idea this is going to turn out to be, please join no2id.org [no2id.net] and help in a practical way, as well as moaning about it on Slashdot! :)
  • Re:Better link (Score:2, Informative)

    by bradavon ( 1066358 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @07:43AM (#18079988)
    Where is the source link in the original text? A link claiming to be the source is provided yet it navigates to the home page.

    A Slashdot member has kindly posted the link to the petition (something Slashdot should've done) which only list the number of voters, which as far as I can see closed because it expired (all votes on the pm.gov.uk have an expiry date) NOT because Tony Blair forcibly closed it. Another Slashdot member has posted this without any source link to backup what he posted.

    Incidentally I have just found the relevant source link Slashdot should've posted in the first place (and pasted in here): http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page10987.asp [pm.gov.uk]

    I'd always prefer to read the source link as I've no idea otherwise if it's true. Also: Homepage for ID Cards: http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page10960.asp [pm.gov.uk]. Next time Slashdot instead of posting such blatantly one sided news how about you also post your source links to back it up!

    As for whether Tony Blair is good prime minister as I see some are commenting on that's a debate for an entirely different discussion, if you think Tony Blair solely is for ID Cards you're a fool.

    Personally I think he's done a lot for the UK which is overshadowed by his recent Iraq war decisions. Tony Blair has been in power 10 years lets not forget and also lets not forget what a mess the Conservatives left the country in.

    Some perspective please people.
  • Re:Here's a sample (Score:4, Informative)

    by mikerich ( 120257 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @08:08AM (#18080116)
    By all means [conservatives.com]:

    From David Davies (Shadow Home Secretary) to Sir Gus O'Donnell (head of the Civil Service):

    'I am writing to you in relation to the Government's planned roll out of its national identity card scheme, commencing this year. You will be aware that there is a longstanding convention that one Parliament may not bind a subsequent Parliament.As you will also be aware, the Conservative Party has stated publicly that it is our intention to cancel the ID cards project immediately on our being elected to government. You are now formally on notice of our position and fully appraised of the contingent risks and associated liabilities arising from the national identity card scheme.'

  • by SamSim ( 630795 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @08:21AM (#18080188) Homepage Journal

    It's really easy to say, "Terrorists routinely do this."

    Exactly my sentiments. If terrorism is a problem, where are the terrorists? Where are the endless terrorist attacks and counter-terrorist busts? We got bombed once [wikipedia.org] , like a year and a half ago. America hasn't been attacked at all in half a decade. Is that supposed to constitute a persistent looming threat? Because I, for one, could not care less.

  • Re:Better link (Score:3, Informative)

    by eyeye ( 653962 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @10:02AM (#18080850) Homepage Journal
    The country is in a terrible state, ever single institution the government has a say is a f*** up. They have signed up our hospitals and schools to PFI (aka loan sharks), reduced our freedoms, increased taxes and still the poor in society are no better educated or paid.

    Hopefully soon those who got a small amount of tax credits to buy their vote (whilst they lost more from other taxes/increases) will come to their senses and vote for another party at the next election.
  • Re:Better link (Score:3, Informative)

    by Catullus ( 30857 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @11:05AM (#18081590) Journal
    You'll need a biometric passport to get a visa free trip to the US

    As I said in my reply, a passport containing a digitised facial image is perfectly acceptable - see the US Embassy's own guidelines [usembassy.org.uk]. In particular, there is no need to have your fingerprints stored there.

    Having an ID which everyone has is common in most countries

    As far as I know, no other country has a centralised ID database on the scale of the planned UK National Identity Register. In particular, the database will store an audit trail of every time it's been accessed. If it becomes common (as you suggest) for ID to be checked whenever a credit card is used, this means that the government can track every purchase you make using one.

    Regarding your comments on Andrew Gilligan - he appears to provide named and reputable sources in that article. What part of it aren't you convinced about?
  • by crimperman ( 225941 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @11:39AM (#18082002) Homepage
    To be fair he hasn't appropriated it. Others refer to him as such - particularly those from countries where an equivalent position is a title and not a post. I agree he hasn't gone out of his way to correct that but I am unaware of any direct effort by TB to use this as a title.

    Most (good) news media in the UK at least seem to refer to him as "the Prime Minister, Tony Blair" or "mr Blair" as you have suggested.

    Caveat: this does not mean I like his policies of course. :o)
  • by trewornan ( 608722 ) on Tuesday February 20, 2007 @01:57PM (#18084050)
    There already is a petition in support of ID cards: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/idcard/ [pm.gov.uk]

    Currently 25 signatures.

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