Trump Blockade of Huawei Fizzles In European 5G Rollout (bloomberg.com) 280
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Last summer, the Trump administration started a campaign to convince its European allies to bar China's Huawei from their telecom networks. Bolstered by the success of similar efforts in Australia and New Zealand, the White House sent envoys to European capitals with warnings that Huawei's gear would open a backdoor for Chinese spies. The U.S. even threatened to cut off intelligence sharing if Europe ignored its advice. So far, not a single European country has banned Huawei. Europe, caught in the middle of the U.S.-China trade war, has sought to balance concerns about growing Chinese influence with a desire to increase business with the region's second-biggest trading partner. With no ban in the works, Huawei is in the running for contracts to build 5G phone networks, the ultra-fast wireless technology Europe's leaders hope will fuel the growth of a data-based economy.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks. Italy's government has dismissed the U.S. warnings as it seeks to boost trade with China. In Germany, authorities have proposed tighter security rules for data networks rather than outlawing Huawei. France is doing the same after initially flirting with the idea of restrictions on Huawei. Governments listened to phone companies such as Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, and Orange SA, who warned that sidelining Huawei would delay the implementation of 5G by years and add billions of euros in cost. While carriers can also buy equipment from the likes of Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co., industry consultants say Huawei's quality is high, and the company last year filed 5,405 global patents, more than double the filings by Ericsson and Nokia combined. And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc., Huawei's American rival, since Edward Snowden leaked documents revealing the National Security Agency's use of U.S.-made telecom equipment for spying.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks. Italy's government has dismissed the U.S. warnings as it seeks to boost trade with China. In Germany, authorities have proposed tighter security rules for data networks rather than outlawing Huawei. France is doing the same after initially flirting with the idea of restrictions on Huawei. Governments listened to phone companies such as Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, and Orange SA, who warned that sidelining Huawei would delay the implementation of 5G by years and add billions of euros in cost. While carriers can also buy equipment from the likes of Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co., industry consultants say Huawei's quality is high, and the company last year filed 5,405 global patents, more than double the filings by Ericsson and Nokia combined. And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc., Huawei's American rival, since Edward Snowden leaked documents revealing the National Security Agency's use of U.S.-made telecom equipment for spying.
"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharing" (Score:4, Insightful)
In some European circles, this threat from the Trump administration may have seemed to resemble 50 lashes with a wet noodle.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Insightful)
Trump doesn't get basic shit. You don't threaten people to get what you want except as a last resort - not a first resort. This is why he sucks at "dealmaking" and has basically failed at every opportunity to do so.
This was a very winnable objective.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:4, Interesting)
He's used to people kissing is ass because he's rich. He's used to being above normal laws and paying to make problems go away, because he's rich.
Doesn't work in international politics though. Not least because at the pace economies and negotiations move the rest of the world can just wait for 2020. Realistically he's got a year left to do anything and there are some big problems headed his way during that time.
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Trump doesn't get basic shit. You don't threaten people to get what you want except as a last resort - not a first resort. This is why he sucks at "dealmaking" and has basically failed at every opportunity to do so.
This was a very winnable objective.
We joke over this side of the pond, if Trump had negotiated Brexit then we'd have already adopted the Euro and German as the national language.
The problem with Trump is that his money and family connections meant he was able to walk over smaller people with impunity. That power matters for nought in international trade and diplomacy and you need to actually work with your opponents to secure a good deal. Bluster and impudence will get you at the very best, ignored.
Re: "even threatened to cut off intelligence shari (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, not quite. Power is always relative, not absolute. Money is the ultimate power, and USA GDP is currently 24% of world GDP. That sounds like a lot, however GW Bush inherited a USA with over 30% of world GDP. USA isn't growing as fast as the rest of the world, and this is making the USA much less relevant on the world stage. We've really moved on from a bi-polar world to a tri-polar world: USA, Europe and China are the three big players. And when it goes from 2 to 3 players it's much easier to exclude any one player from any one game, such as how USA failed to stop Europe from working with China in this case. The fact is, EU+China can do their own deals now and ignore America. That's why going from 35+% of world GDP down to under 25% of world GDP is in fact a game-changer for the USA. People are more free to ignore you.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Funny)
Or as Melania calls it: "date night". :-)
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Or as Melania calls it: "date night". :-)
Damn. I'd prefer that joke in the morning, when I'd be wasting coffee pressure-washing the keyboard, instead of half decent scotch in the evening.
Cisco = Backdoors with a router (Score:2)
>> And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc
Yeah. The motto of Cisco is: "A backdoor a day keeps your data far away."
Cisco = Backdoors with a router
Nobody needs that.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Insightful)
When the USA turns off the flow of raw real time data what will EU nations do?
Get a copy of it from the Chinese ?
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:4, Insightful)
The BND needs the flow of US data everyday.
Can you clarify this? Exactly who is going to attack Germany if they miss a day of American supplied data?
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How else are they going to get copies of Angel Merkel's phone calls in exchange for nudes?
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The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks.
... is pretty lame.
I mean, it isn't as if Huawei hasn't been caught spying on people through their phones, and stealing others' inventions.
To me, that's the equivalent of saying, "We don't know how to build the phone infrastructure ourselves, so we'll just buy it from Russia."
Where's the difference?
I wouldn't let Huawei build my phone infrastructure any more than I'd voluntarily feed my private phone conversations to the NSA.
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I wouldn't let Huawei build my phone infrastructure any more than I'd voluntarily feed my private phone conversations to the NSA.
I would let Huawei build my phone infrastructure to protect my private phone conversations from the NSA.
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The data includes information about international shipping and trade security, what is likely to happen at an upcoming OPEC meeting, etc.
Germany's need for the data is economic, not military.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Insightful)
Germany thanks the USA by going Communist.
Having universal health care does not make you communist, moron.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Insightful)
Supporting a Communist nation after the advice USA is Germany going Communist.
Advice isn't enough. America also needs to provide evidence. So far they have none.
If the Trump administration continues to lie about this, they may even start to lose their credibility.
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They can’t lose their credibility because they have none.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Insightful)
Why does the US need to risk its own intelligence to provide evidence to nations that are been given US intelligence?
If the US could demonstrate a Huawei router collecting and transmitting data, or show how the firmware is compromised, how would that "risk" US intelligence? It would be disclosing facts that China would presumably already know.
They haven't demonstrated anything because they have no evidence.
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This. Show us the proof or sod off. Huawei has been more open than any US 5G manufacturer, offering access to source code and CAD files for verification. All Cisco has done is swear that the NSA isn't intercepting its hardware to install backdoors any more, probably because they hard coded enough of their own in that it need not bother any more.
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I agree; if they need "evidence" they're not a close military ally, they're an arms-length ally, and they should get their shared data at an arm's length.
If they want cheek-and-jowl access, they need to show cheek-and-jowl trust.
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On the contrary, if they don't need evidence, then they are fools, not allies.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree; if they need "evidence" they're not a close military ally, they're an arms-length ally, and they should get their shared data at an arm's length.
If they want cheek-and-jowl access, they need to show cheek-and-jowl trust.
Let's not forget however, that the USA is at present at war with it's own intelligence agencies.
So the threats are sort of weird - threatening to withhold intelligence that the CinC claims is all false anyhow. Isn't that helping our new enemies that used to be our allies?
Christ, this reads like schizophrenia world.
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And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are.
Well someone has to. You seem to forget it in your superiority.
If anyone wonders why NATO failed, just refer to this comment.
Huh? It failed? As far as I can tell the USA wants more money put into it.
Have fun with your new buddies in Communist China.
Your brain doesn't appear to be working. If you've already had your morning coffee then may I suggest calling 911, you may have just had a stroke.
Bet they won't pay for your defense or let you rip them off for $150 billion a year in unfair trade agreements.
You repeat this ad nauseum despite having been told with references all over again that the figure is bullshit. Your inability to learn from the falsehood of your fox and friends talking points is precisely why it is important pe
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And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are. We know, we've heard it a million times. If anyone wonders why NATO failed, just refer to this comment. Have fun with your new buddies in Communist China. Bet they won't pay for your defense or let you rip them off for $150 billion a year in unfair trade agreements. Good riddance.
You seem quite upset to no longer be getting as shafted as you imply you were.
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And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are. We know, we've heard it a million times.
Did you ever wonder if our big mistake was lend-lease, and fighting for the Euro-supremacists? They could be under NatSoc rule right now, and apparently much happier for it.
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Germany thanks the USA by going Communist. Having universal health care does not make you communist, moron.
No, but claiming that it is better than the insurance-based healthcare the US has, tend to make you appear dumb.
If you dig deeper you'll see that it is horribly expensive and the prime target for 'cost reductions', making it sub-standard at best in real life. At least that is how it works here in Denmark - long waits for non-emergency treatment, severely understaffed, way too early release after treatment... and a tendency to host lingering department-wide infections due to rushed daily routines and sub-standard cleaning.
It is better. Your particular example might not be the most efficient but would you rather blow through your life savings because you broke an arm and picked up an infection?
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So it works about the same in Denmark as in the US, then.
Re:"even threatened to cut off intelligence sharin (Score:5, Insightful)
It will have no effect. Or maybe it will have a positive effect because all that moronic, incompetent focus on "data" has yet to catch a single terrorist before the act. And the main purpose of that data, spying on innocent citizens, is basically a slow road to fascism, to the less that works, the better.
Hence I think it would be hugely preferably to not have that data, even if it was completely free. Also note that a lot of the data-taps are on EU (or British) soil, would be a shame if something were to happen to them...
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"all that moronic, incompetent focus on "data" has yet to catch a single terrorist before the act" Wrong, at least in the U.S. There was the recent case of that fellow that worked for the Coast Guard collecting ammo and guns for what he hoped would be his assault on the Democrats. Had a kill list and everything.
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You really do not understand how that works. You think you can tap an internet cable without it actually running over those bases? That cable will just find a new route. Or/and it may get link encryption. The whole threat is utterly empty and just a show for people without a clue.
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There's little doubt, as your post implies, that Western Europe is by design beholden to the Americans for access to the most current information surreptitiously acquired by our usually efficient TLAs.
Now, let's say you're the nation who embraced the job of world's policeman (I know, cavalierly risking gender bias accusations) since the end of WWII.
Strategically, do you now abandon those generational alliances because European leaders mock your fearless leader, who is, quite fairly, a rather easy target?.?
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Not catch terrorists?
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Naw, they'll whine and cry, and then their next administration will pay the companies to replace all the devices.
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The GCHQ needs US support globally and US support in Ireland.
Ummm, what?
We should ban cisco (Score:5, Insightful)
We know Cisco devices cant be trusted because the US government has already been caught installing backdoor spyware into Cisco devices at customs. We should ban Cisco as well as Huawei.
Re:We should ban cisco (Score:5, Insightful)
We know Cisco is compromised. Has there ever been any proof that Huawei is compromised or is it all just speculative paranoia?
I say we just ban Cisco until we have some actual evidence that Huawei is spying.
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Got the mil budget for a rush build on lots of new spy satellites this year?
Got the experts to design, place and use US grade spy satellites? Locations globally to get spy data in real time?
When the US raw data stops Germany and the Uk will have to fit in the collect it all gaps.
No more US tax payers giving away billions of $ each year in free mil/spy data to Eu nations.
All the EU nations with shared US bases will re
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What from? French, German and UK HumInt?
Most nations that can spy can detect other nations HumInt attempts.
Embassy staff, tourists, think tank workers, NGO workers, charity workers, people trying to proselytize will not offer the perfect cover once expected.
Thats what real time US collected intelligence is always so wanted by the EU nations.
HumInt cant cover everything and most EU nations do not have the mil budgets for their own global real time HumInt
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They can collect their own intelligence globally with no new mil spending?
Find another nation with the ability the USA has to share with?
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The UK will have to find the money for the GCHQ to replace what the US no longer gives.
Maybe France can be asked to risk its own spy networks to help?
A new EU wide tax to pay for spying?
How much more new tax can be extracted to pay for new mil/gov/spying in each EU nation?
NATO still needs to be supported every year too
Got the budget growth for some new global spying?
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Please stop it and grow up you idiot.
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Hasn't stopped. Hasn't grown up.
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No no, you're totally right. There's no way we could collect that information without you. Your dicks are totally bigger. You have the most freedom.
Except what you equate to "dicks" are actual capabilities that are expensive and take decades to build out. We've built that out. Biggest in the world.
Are you too jealous to even admit that US military data collection is actually bigger? Are you unable to say so, simply because you already compared it to dicks? LOLOL
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USA? Try that Knob in the White House. He lost the popular vote and his approval rating is below 40%. The only idiots still supporting him are the Evangelicals.
Let's recap (Score:5, Insightful)
USA: Caught and proven to be bugging US-made routers for spying.
China: Accused of but not proven to be bugging China-made routers for spying.
Remind me again why we shouldn't trust Chinese hardware?
Re:Let's recap (Score:5, Insightful)
You should not trust Chinese hardware because it likely is insecure. You can still use it as the alternatives are known to be insecure. Hence Huawei just has better quality at better prices.
Cisco had a good reputation once, but they blew it. Like pretty much any major US player. Boeing was one of the last ones to do so.
Re:Let's recap (Score:5, Insightful)
You should not trust Chinese hardware because it likely is insecure. You can still use it as the alternatives are known to be insecure. Hence Huawei just has better quality at better prices.
Cisco had a good reputation once, but they blew it. Like pretty much any major US player. Boeing was one of the last ones to do so.
So your case boils down to: You should not trust Chinese hardware because it likely is insecure. You should trust US hardware even though it is proven to be insecure ? And I vividly remember Boeing being only one beneficiary of the US government spying on European companies (in this case Airbus) and handing their sensitive business communications to Boeing. When it comes to spying I don't trust the Chinese any farther than I can throw them, I don't trust the Americans even as far as I can throw them.
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Pretty clearly I suggest that you cannot get hardware you can trust, so you should buy the best with regards to the other characteristics. I have no idea how you can not see that in my statement.
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I use them. But do they have a good reputation? Hell, no.
Not proven? (Score:2)
China: Accused of but not proven
We aren't talking about China the overall entity (though if we were that's still enough reason for concern).
No, we are talking about a company the serially does whatever it can to steal trade secrets from other companies. Even if you didn't believe whatever they captured was going back to China proper, why would you trust anything confidential to their gear?
It's not proven that I, personally, will die if I jump in a Yellowstone hot spring. But damned if I'm going to do it wh
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You shouldn't trust US hardware because the US passed a similar law some time ago (the Patriot Act). Except that law, like the Chinese law, applies to telecoms and not to manufactures of telecom hardware.
Of
Re: Let's recap (Score:2)
Only "insightful" if you draw a moral equivalency between the US and China.
Do you, really?
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I wonder what happens next. Singularity?
Expensive Data Plan (Score:3)
>> I wonder what happens next.
What happens next is that you have tu upgrade your data plan or your internet connection, because all of your data gets replicated to at least 3 different destinations, so you use 3x more bandwidth in general.
I know what happened (Score:4, Insightful)
Cisco couldn't compete on a level playing field with Huawei, so they asked the Government to help them out.
Re:I know what happened (Score:5, Insightful)
Cisco couldn't compete on a level playing field with Huawei, so they asked the Government to help them out.
Not just Cisco, the whole industry from network equipment manufacturers on to mobile phone manufacturers including Apple, Google, Microsoft and every US company that makes mobile devices based on Android & Windows. Huawei is a fierce competitor for all of them and the main purpose of bullying the EU into banning Huawei is about eliminating Huawei as a competitor to US corporations, spying is just a pretext. If Trump had any shred of evidence Huawei is spying for China he'd already have banned Huawei from the US market completely and shouted his evidence from the roof of the White House with a bull horn. Just wait until Xiaomi starts underbidding Google/Samsung/Apple on the US market and the latter's profits start to nosedive. I'll bet you good money that the White House will alluvasudden start claiming Xiaomi is spying for China, and I'll bet more money they'll not present a shred of evidence for it.
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https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html - There's mountains of evidence, you're just a moron. If you think this has anything at all to do with Trump, doubly so.
Gee your mama should wash your mouth out with soap. All that article claims is that Huawei copied US corporation's designs, that is IP theft. What that article is basically describing is what the US did to build up it's economy during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, stealing IP from European companies shielded by the US courts who did not see any reason to punish US citizens for stealing IP from a bunch of foreigners. Now China is doing it to you, so stop yelling **UNFAIR* like a whiny little bitch,
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They've got Devices of Mass Communication. DMC!!! DMCs!!! America's biggest issue is everything they make is in China
America's biggest issue is that America's much worshipped moneyed classes moved America's industrial base to China.
The ban never made sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, except to the US domestically. But spying-wise, all telco equipment is compromised, and the US, having no honor whatsoever, is not above spying on allies. Those "allies" do remember that now and are reacting accordingly. Also, there is talk about removing the US ambassador from Germany, because some feel he is behaving inappropriately by directly threatening allies.
As a security expert, the whole thing is basically a non-issue. You always need real end-to-end encryption with no "backdoors" or any such totalitarian and moronic nonsense for a connection to be secure. But as soon as you have that, you do not care about a compromised network, as long as it still transmits your data. Other things, like location, are compromised anyways, no matter who delivers the equipment, because the network tech is not really secure against that anyways. The solution here is to know that and simply switch off your phone when you do not want to be tracked. As extra protection, have a removable battery, something I insist anyways. (No, I will not buy your crap design with planned obsolescence by not removable battery. Does not matter what shiny new feature it has or how great it looks. Go defraud somebody else.)
History lesson (Score:2)
Because the US has forgot the history lessons:
Wars that fought on falsified [wikipedia.org] or exaggerate [wikipedia.org] accusations are doomed to fail [wikipedia.org], even if every battle was won.
Countries running on populism [wikipedia.org] and getting too [wikipedia.org] greedy [wikipedia.org] are doomed to be defeated.
The Europeans (and the Russians) should have passed their Chinese classical literature [wikipedia.org] class.
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I agree to most of that. Nice collection of reasons how humans as a group screw up again and again.
Although China is likely not a threat anymore, now that they have effectively a totalitarian dictatorship with a single infallible leader. They are polite about it, the leader is trying to appear restrained, but it is the same thing. And that is also one of the lessons from history: If things depend on a single person, that person gets corrupted (if not already) and things fail. China just has done away with t
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Wait, the Korean War? Are you sure you read up on that one, Ivan?
Do you get full pay for half-ass propaganda you posted drunk, or is it a sliding scale?
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Propaganda is propaganda. You know, "lies" and misdirection. But how would you understand that...
Re:The ban never made sense (Score:5, Insightful)
That "ear in the room" costs you dearly. It makes it blatantly obvious to everybody that you cannot be trusted. And that comes back to haunt you. Nobody has forgotten that the US compromised Merkel's phone and that will stay with the US for a long, long time.
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The comments you have made here have not even risen to Sec+ levels of competence.
Hahaha, funny. Certifications are for the clueless, I have stopped getting them. No, I do actual security, not paper-pushing. You know, that stuff that protects you, not the stuff that makes management feel good. And to blow your mind a bit further, I also teach IT security on the side.
Some of the things what I learned today (Score:5, Insightful)
FULL COMMUNISM! FULL COMMUNISM! FULL COMMUNISM!
AMERICA PROTECTS! YOU OWE US!
Nobody quite does propaganda like the United States, but it only really works on Americans who have never traveled outside the awful Midwestern shithole state they live in.
blame it on anybody, everybody else (Score:5, Interesting)
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It might turn out to not actually be faster, but merely be cheaper for the telecoms to operate. Don't just assume, 5 is bigger than 4 so the new tech must be faster.
In Europe we have LAWS! (Score:2)
A country can not simply ban a company from the market.
How exactly would that work?
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Of course they can. If said company only sells stuff that doesn’t adhere to European safety and other standards it can’t sell it’s products in the EU.
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Its, dammit! Its products.
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Surely that was not the mistake, but there was a missing semicolon!
If said company only sells stuff that doesn’t adhere to European safety and other standards it can’t sell; it is products in the EU.
Clearly the person was saying that if a company can't sell its products in Europe, the company becomes a product in the EU!
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That must be it. Because, if it is a product it CAN be banned!
Problem solved!
So why the big rush to 5G anyway? (Score:3)
the ultra-fast wireless technology Europe's leaders hope will fuel the growth of a data-based economy.
Every time I read this “argument”, I wonder: what’s with the big rush? Frankly, is 5G going to change our lives compared to 4G? I doubt it.
I understand that there are actors who stand to benefit (and may therefore be impatient):
But for the bulk of ordinary consumers? Yes, when visiting very crowded places, they'll get acceptable connectivity in conditions where 4G might be subpar. But that will concern a fraction of people, a fraction of the time in their daily life. Aside from that, nothing terribly new and exciting. If so, 5G won't really be a game changer for consumers or even for the overall economy.
And in that case, why not keep improving the current 4G network until better, cheaper, more trusted 5G options become available, instead of taking risks rushing with the cheapest hardware offering from a problematic supplier?
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Every time I read this “argument”, I wonder: what’s with the big rush? Frankly, is 5G going to change our lives compared to 4G? I doubt it.
Exactly. Most people wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't care. You could tell them it was 97G and they'd believe it.
The breathless move to 5G is partly an excuse to sell new phones and telecom gear, and partly an excuse to have an opportunity to slip in some serious spy-goodies along the way.
Imagine having an entire country's communication service completely penetrated at the core level for your use...it's the wet dream of dictators and autocrats everywhere.
Arrogant as hell... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, well, Trump attempts to dictate "Thou shalt not purchase from company XYZ". No proof, just an assertion that they are not trustworthy. Because the country caught intercepting Cisco shipments and introducing backdoors [arstechnica.com] into them is soooo trustworthy.
He's being an arrogant ass, continuing the usual foreign policy of the American government. Individuals Americans may be nice, but the US government is full of itself (and has been for decades, nothing to do with the current president).
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Yes, well, Trump attempts to dictate "Thou shalt not purchase from company XYZ". No proof, just an assertion that they are not trustworthy. Because the country caught intercepting Cisco shipments and introducing backdoors [arstechnica.com] into them is soooo trustworthy.
He's being an arrogant ass, continuing the usual foreign policy of the American government. Individuals Americans may be nice, but the US government is full of itself (and has been for decades, nothing to do with the current president).
Well Trump's alternate imaginary facts outweigh your 'theoretical facts'. You must not forget that the man is probably the most stable genius in the known universe ;-)
Damark just dumped Huawei and signed with Ericsson (Score:2)
So much for fizzling. Our defense intelligence service neither couldn't nor wouldn't guarantee that Huawei would not be using their technology to spy or disrupt vital areas of infrastructure, so nobody wanted to take a chance. It's as simple as that.
One of the big points were that despite the whole thing hinged on the fact that a Chinese company would have to submit to total government control in case the government wanted to, and the blatantly obviously solution would be to move Huawei out of China to cut
Re:The US will support its friends (Score:5, Funny)
Time for the US to find new friends it can trust to keep secrets and who will support the USA.
We already have them - Russia and North Korea.
Re:The US will support its friends (Score:5, Insightful)
The UK allows the US to operate military bases on its territory. That's a gift that is worth a pile of gold.
The US is revealed to operate illegal spying operations on its allies.
What's all this "full Communist" nonsense? I think your view of world politics might be a bit off-balance - perhaps read some current affairs? Or just increase the soma dosage...?
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Allies spy on the U.S. as well. It is a good thing, it prevents surprises.
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But in tit for tat, if the UK kicks the US off its soil then it's going to need a new carrier group to replace the Diego GarcÃa base. If the whole of the EU kicks it out, that's probably a long-term saving for the US Army because of the reduction in maintenance costs, but it's a bit short-term cost to restructure. It's a lose-lose scenario.
Re:The US will support its friends (Score:5, Insightful)
The US does not have friends. It takes honor and integrity for that and the US does not even understand that concept. The US has vassals. Looks like Europe finally found some backbone, because they do not actually _need_ US support for anything. They can screw up things all by themselves. (Judging from all that really stupid Internet legislation recently.) And they can buy cheaper and better Chinese equipment, because the security of that equipment is not actually a factor as it all is compromised. If we ever see a major war (I really, really do hope not...) all that shiny infrastructure will stop working.
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I don't think so. Harsh, yes, but also realistic. Look up "American Exceptionalism". It basically says they are top dog and better than everybody else. With that mind-set, you do not have friends, because friendship implies some level of equality. That some others are no better does not impact that state of affairs at all.
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Use US gear and the US will listen in. That's been shown. Use Chinese gear and the Chinese government will listen. 100% quaranteed. Use European equipment and .... well those governments are less likely to spy, but the gear will be billions more and years late. Not great choices, but.... well, we live in the real world. Pick your poison.
With the equipment in question, there are only 3 suppliers, and that is unlikely to change. One supplier is from China. The other two are from Europe.
The US doesn't make this equipment. The US is demanding that European countries buy from one of the European suppliers if they want to continue information sharing. It won't be late, it is already developed.
The funniest part is the Chinese shills who are pretending to be Very Superior European Bigots, while arguing against the idea that European governments sh
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Nations do not have friends. Global hegemons do indeed have vassals, as do local hegemons.
And Europe without outside security umbrella is Europe where history goes back to what it was before it. Warring empires fighting for survival against neighbours. It's quite possible that China might be able to replace US if need arises to fill this role in a century or so, but considering Chinese culture, demands placed on its European vassals would be several orders of magnitude harsher.
Re:Stop apologizing. (Score:5, Interesting)
Basically everybody does that. There are countless examples of the US doing that as well. It does not matter. "Trade secrets" are valid only for a few years, even if empires in the downward cycle (like the US) often try to artificially change that. Fact is that after a few years, the competition can do it as well and better. Or do you really think Huawei would sell enterprise products they do not understand and hence cannot support? Think again. Copying the designs is not actually a sign that they cannot do it themselves (even though non-engineers and bad engineers often take it for one), it is just a sign that the original design was pretty much finished and that another, independent design process would have arrived pretty much at the same end-point. So why not make it a standard ans make it the same end-product, so customers can directly replace one with the other without having to analyze the differences in detail? And at that time, it is not a trade secret, it is the state-of-the-art. Mass-produced things, like screws, connectors, etc. are standardized at that point and enter the public domain. It is the only sane thing to do.
The utterly hilarious thing is that the US, that "heaven of capitalism" suddenly becomes protectionist and opposed to a free market when they are not the ones doing it to others, but somebody does it to them. Talk about double-standards and ignoring reality.
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You seem to be a propaganda shill. Despicable.
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The EU has taken careful note of how the US treats New Zealand, Japan, Poland.
New Zealand: no defensive alliance with the US, not covered by the US nuclear umbrella. No free trade agreement, since Trump torpedoed TPPA. No actionable intelligence provided to prevent terrorist attack. Thanks a lot, USA.
Japan: not consulted in US negotiations with North Korea. Indirectly and directly targeted in trade war. Thanks a lot, USA.
Poland: still reeling from US rapprochement with Russia, now told (by Trump) that US no
Re: Trump fizzles generally... (Score:2)
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That's an oil company, are you sure it is about theft of technology?
I'm not going to click the link, but I already know that it is about a US investigation of financial donations made to known terrorist groups by a Petrobras executive, because there is a continuing propaganda misinformation effort around it.
I hope you got paid at least a couple rubles for you post, jeeze.
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I hope you got paid at least a couple rubles for you post, jeeze.
His family will at least stay alive for another couple weeks.
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How is the NSA looking after terrorist concerns is any way related to looking after commercial interests? Because there was a company involved somewhere?
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The US government is bad but it doesn't even begin to compare to China with their great firewall, public shaming of citizens, massacre in the square, annexation and burning alive much of Tbt, and on and on. The US might poke their noses into the data of Europe, unlike others I won't pretend we haven't had revealed what was revealed. But the US still pursues common interests with Europe.
This US is like the Russian spy on Turings team when cracking Enigma. He served to send valuable intelligence to an ALLY. L
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Actually, the Australian government banned Huawei kit from being used in the National Broadband Network (probably at the behest of the US)
I wish Australia would stop being the lap dogs of the US and doing stuff just because the US happens to want us to do it.
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It turns out, it is military intelligence, not political intelligence.