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EU Security Politics

Kaspersky Halts Europol Partnership After Controversial EU Parliament Vote (bleepingcomputer.com) 104

An anonymous reader writes: Kaspersky Lab announced it was temporarily halting its cooperation with Europol following the voting of a controversial motion in the European Parliament. The Russian antivirus vendor will also stop working on the NoMoreRansom project that provided free ransomware decrypters for ransomware victims.

The company's decision comes after the EU Parliament voted a controversial motion that specifically mentions Kaspersky as a "confirmed as malicious" software and urges EU states to ban it as part of a joint EU cyber defense strategy. The EU did not present any evidence for its assessment that Kaspersky is malicious, but even answered user questions claiming it has no evidence. The motion is just a EU policy and has no legislative power, put it is still an official document. Kaspersky software has been previously banned from Government systems in the US, UK, Netherlands, and Lithuania.

Kaspersky Halts Europol Partnership After Controversial EU Parliament Vote

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  • My take (Score:1, Troll)

    by war4peace ( 1628283 )

    Personally I think the EU has gone mad.

    • And people wonder why Britain voted out.
      • Re:My take (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15, 2018 @03:59AM (#56788552)

        And people wonder why Britain voted out.

        Not at all - we just don't agree about the reason. To me it is obvious that people voted leave (by a small majority) because they were lied to by a small group of people, who either expect to gain personally from the chaos that is the consequence of Brexit (as we can already see now), or who hate all things foreign.

        The Remain side, by and large, led a sober, pragmatic and fairminded campaign, while the Leave side appealed to what we used to call the inner Schweinehund in the many people that have been affected by the financial crisis, as well as using outright lies. As Hitler famously said, if you repeat a lie loudly and frequently, then people will eventually believe it.

        I don't think there are many, even on the remain side, that love the EU - being sober, pragmatic and fairminded means that you are able to see both the advantages and the disadvantages of EU, but in this casehave decided that it is better to remain and work on improving things. Fortunately nothing is permanent - I remain confident that once we have experienced the reality of this mess long enough, we will seek to get back in.

        • Plus the ivan interference.
        • And people wonder why Britain voted out.

          Not at all - we just don't agree about the reason. To me it is obvious that people voted leave (by a small majority) because they were lied to by a small group of people, who either expect to gain personally from the chaos that is the consequence of Brexit (as we can already see now), or who hate all things foreign.

          So because they don't share your point of view, they must have been simpletons who were lied to? That sounds like what Hillary Clinton said about all the women who voted for Trump - something like, "In those households, they probably voted for him because their husbands did."

          News flash - just because a majority doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're gullible fools. I'm not British, so I can't speak for them, but it does sound very similar to the Trump situation over here. People can't comprehend w

    • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

      by war4peace ( 1628283 )

      Interestingly I was considered a troll, despite being honest, as an EU citizen.
      When the EU decides to ban a company based on say-so and "trust me I know", they've gone mad.
      I have no love for Russia, with my country having lived under its (well the USSR) heel for 45 years, but what the EU and the USA are doing (e.g. banning Kaspersky just because) is equally insane. Extremism is extremism, no matter which side of the balance it lays on.

      • No you were being a troll by ignoring the fact that this isn't an EU issue as much as it is currently very much a global issues lead in part by people who are also completely anti-EU, and others who are actively trying to leave.

        What is the EU supposed to do? It's law makers are at the whim of advice from federal agencies, the agencies around the world they most heavily look to have a campaign against Kaspersky. Their source of truth is that Kaspersky is bad due to involvement with Russia, which in itself ca

        • its*

          • Oh your one of them peoples who'se more concerned, with typose than having a discussion?

        • What the hell have you been drinking?

          Maybe Russia and China should ban Oracle, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Intel, etc., because "Their source of truth is that those companies are bad due to involvement with USA, which in itself can be considered obvious and given the ties to USA also be considered self evident."

          The same retarded reasoning goes both ways, you see.

          Oh, there's proof? ZTE was proven to break embargo laws, and banning it was fine (that is, until Trump reversed it because why the fuck not), but Kasper

          • What the hell have you been drinking?

            Water and coffee.

            Maybe Russia and China should ban Oracle, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Intel, etc., because "Their source of truth is that those companies are bad due to involvement with USA, which in itself can be considered obvious and given the ties to USA also be considered self evident."

            You mean like the Chinese 863 Program? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] which among other things lincluded source code review from Windows?
            Or Russia blocking western services, and their current plan to deploy their own root servers, or their blocking of several of Microsoft's products?

            I'm not sure what is so startling here for you. Intelligence agencies have informed their governments of a threat and the governments have acted on it appropriately. Now the fact that the intelligence agencie

      • by Maritz ( 1829006 )
        I bet there are lots of decent people at Kaspersky. The problem is they live in a kleptocracy, and they do not get to say no to Dear Leader Putin. Establish rule of law in your fucking nation, get an actual elected leader, and then you can work with the free world again. In the mean time, sort your shit out and get your fellow patriotic, non-cowardly russians to do likewise.
        • Let me change a few words and retain the truthfulness and meaning, as seen from "the other side":

          I bet there are lots of decent people at Microsoft. The problem is they live in a kleptocracy, and they do not get to say no to Dear Leader Trump. Establish rule of law in your fucking nation, get an actual elected leader, and then you can work with the free world again. In the mean time, sort your shit out and get your fellow patriotic, non-cowardly Americans to do likewise.

          See... two-edged blade. Can swing both ways.

      • It's strange indeed. But the blatant constant attacks on Kaspersky sure does look ridiculous to me. What about all those secret court orders from the NSA being issued upon companies in the US who aren't allowed to talk about?

        Did we already forget all of that back in 2013? Still waiting for that evidence that Kaspersky is compromised when we have evidence to the contrary.

    • Is that the EU of America you're talking about?
      https://politics.slashdot.org/... [slashdot.org]

    • by Maritz ( 1829006 )

      Personally I think the EU has gone mad.

      Luckily, no-one worthwhile gives a fuck what you think. Phew.

  • Finally, Europol is onto Russian influence.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, 2018 @05:02PM (#56786190)

    Trump has been effusively praising, justifying, apologizing, and whataboutizing every single military despot he's come across while insulting and mischaracterizing the historical alliances in what is a deliberate effort to weaken them, the EU, NATO, and repeal the Magnitsky Act. There's really no question he's in the pocket of Russia on some level, else he wouldn't have needed to lie about his seeking Moscow Trump Tower, having been there overnight, and on and on and on. It's not a mistake, and it's not a witch hunt. There is a there there, and it's Moscow, and Trump has been in direct and indirect communication with a military despotism there.

    This is treason. Declaring war would make that formally true. Congress must now act, and it realizes that whether or not it chooses to. If it does not, Congressional supporters of treason must also be considered defacto complicit.
    Jeff Flake may be right for the wrong reasons, and late to the realization, but he is not wrong. Neither are the legions of Republicans realizing Trump is not legitimately looking after US interests - and never really was.
    It was a hail mary to pardon his friends and wipe away his decades of fraud, and it has failed spectacularly. Now we see what remains, and we unfortunately see the Republican party is far too weak to police itself anymore.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Agreed, the whole North Korea thing is to appease PUTIN. Vladimir Putin knew he couldn't handle North Korea himself, so he made his lapdog TRUMP do it for him.

      I find it sickening how the Russians destroyed Hillary Clinton through lies and treasury, pumped up TRUMP by hacking into American voters, and funneled the election effectively right toward Russia. The USA is now a satellite of Russia and it is only gonna get worse from here.
    • "Treason," is not the word you're looking for.

      It has two components that do not apply:

      1.) No United States citizen has declared war on the United States.

      The last time that happened was the Civil War.

      2.) The United States has no list of enemies.

      The last time that happened was WWII.

      *The United States has, at times, considered a list of enemies, but the idea fell through because of the complications that arise in that it would nullify many treaties that the United States has with other countries.

      U.S. Constitution
      Article III
      Section 3.

      Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

      The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    We wouldn't be in this mess if we had just drafted John McAfee President.
  • by misnohmer ( 1636461 ) on Thursday June 14, 2018 @05:11PM (#56786250)

    The way things are going, Kaspersky will become the victim of "we can't prove it but they are evil" global campaign, eventually leaving the company very few options to survive. A natural shift would be to cyber-security offensive tools - a cyber weapon manufacturer if you will. While the US may balk at using Kaspersky as a defense tool, I don't think the FBI will blink if they can buy a better iPhone hacking tool from Kaspersky, or US or Chinese army if they can buy a better cyber-weapon. They'll rename it for security reasons I'm sure, so it won't be Kaspersky iPhone hacking or electrical grid crashing tool, it will be ACME Inc.

    That's one way to create cyber-weapon manufacturers in today's world. No need to wait for someone to start it and get funding from investors with no scruples.

    • Good points.

      Kaspersky is a business, and a damned good one, at that.

      It will make money; the question is, "How?"|

      Any entity good at defense knows the offensive tactics, and Kaspersky is right up there among the best.

      AND ...

      If Kaspersky is truly evil, it has embedded itself in all the key points around the globe.

      $$$$

    • The way things are going, Kaspersky will become the victim

      Hell, they already ARE. I wouldn't blame them if they did: "You've already judged and convicted us as the bad guys? Then let us show you how it's actually done. What have we got to lose, your trust?"

    • by pots ( 5047349 )

      Kaspersky will become the victim of "we can't prove it but they are evil" global campaign

      There is no claim that is can't be proven, only that it hasn't been proven. i.e.: This hasn't gone to court.

      There are some obvious parallels between this and the people imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay, accused but not proven of committing any crimes, and it is somewhat unsettling for the same reason. On the one hand, this is not nearly so bad as that - the people who work for Kaspersky are not in prison, and are free to go about their lives. It's only the company that's in a bad position. So in that regard

    • The way things are going, Kaspersky will become

      I'm not sure what you mean by those words: "will become". Did you make this post in November but the packets got misrouted by Comcast and only just now hit Slashdot's servers?

  • by AlanObject ( 3603453 ) on Thursday June 14, 2018 @05:27PM (#56786320)

    Can someone please provide a post or a link to any credible information as to what Kaspersky actually has done wrong? The authorities in the EU and the US has pretty much called them a malware manufacturer but I have never heard of anyone victimized by malware they were alleged to have made.

    My guess is that they refused to play footsie with the U.S. security state and this is the payback.

    • by campuscodi ( 4234297 ) on Thursday June 14, 2018 @05:30PM (#56786342)
      They didn't call them a "malware manufacturer." US authorities claimed Kaspersky allowed FSB agents to use its software as a search engine of users' PCs and look for sensitive files. That's how an NSA leak happened, claimed the US. Kaspersky said the leak happened because the NSA agent took nation-state cyber-weapons home, which its software detected and uploaded to its servers for analysis. They also say the agent's computer had several malware infections, and other malware operations could have stolen the files and passed them to Russian intelligence. It's a he says she says mess.
      • by BlueStrat ( 756137 ) on Thursday June 14, 2018 @06:14PM (#56786612)

        Kaspersky said the leak happened because the NSA agent took nation-state cyber-weapons home, which its software detected and uploaded to its servers for analysis.

        The software did what it says it will do on the tin which many of it's competitors do as well (never mind that you can easily choose to have that functionality turned off), and because some idiot US TLA contractor commits an illegal act the developers would have no way to predict, the software and the company behind it are the 'bad guys'.

        This is blame-shifting combined with propaganda meant to distract from US domestic issues regarding powerful people and government agencies run amok.

        Strat

      • by Anonymous Coward

        US authorities claimed Kaspersky allowed FSB agents to use its software as a search engine of users' PCs and look for sensitive files.

        Replace "allowed" with "failed to stop". It sounds like the issue is Kaspersky's internal network was compromised. That leads me to the next obvious point, of whether what's true with Kaspersky's software is true for most anti-virus software--the automatic upload and analysis of suspect files to the anti-virus vendor. If it is, then it's likely every anti-virus vendor has

      • Kaspersky also "defends" themselves by claiming it isn't their fault the Russian intelligence services stole access, they claim to just be a crime victim. Problem is, they continue to also cooperate with the Russian government. They're Russian, so of course they have to.

        But the net total of that is that they admit to be controlled by the Russian government, they just don't want to lose business over it. Which is understandable, but not a strong argument. ;)

        It isn't a he-said-she-said, it is a bunch of hand-

        • Versus our companies who cooperate with secret court orders that we're not even allowed to talk about. There's no telling how many US software companies are compromised other than the ones that have protested.
          • That's complete nonsense and just shows you don't care about the topic enough to learn the public details and get them straight in your head.

    • by KiloByte ( 825081 ) on Thursday June 14, 2018 @05:54PM (#56786476)

      Kaspersky dared to reveal NSA malware, when all other "anti"virus company cooperated.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Yes. The good brands protect the net from any new malware they discover in the wild.
        Other AV brands cover for PRISM, Equation Group or don't have the skills to detect.
        Recall the Magic Lantern (software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
        That showed US thinking on US antivirus vendor cooperation
    • It's not "evidence," it's "fear."

      “The department is concerned about the ties between certain Kaspersky officials and Russian intelligence and other government agencies, and requirements under Russian law that allow Russian intelligence agencies to request or compel assistance from Kaspersky and to intercept communications transiting Russian networks,” the DHS said in a statement. [theguardian.com]

      “The risk that the Russian government, whether acting on its own or in collaboration with Kaspersky, could capitalize on access provided by Kaspersky products to compromise federal information and information systems directly implicates US national security.”

    • by guygo ( 894298 )
      when you are a Friend of Putin evidence comes to you
    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

      That is what Kaspersky did "wrong".

  • Symantec and Norton go unpunished for their numerous crimes against society.

    • Surely Visual Cafe was a crime against humanity, but if they punished them for it they'd probably also have to round up McAfee and he's really popular these days.

  • It is likely that "hometown" companies are assuming they will get lots of government contracts if Kapersky is banned. But the reason that so many places use Kapersky is that it was good and effective.

    Of course, software from possibly hostile (or even possibly friendly) countries should not be used in high security government areas. But those leaks could have happened with -any- anti-virus software, there was nothing different about Kapersky except its home. It is -not- ok to take top-secret stuff home with

  • Of course they have no evidence Kaspersky sells malware. The only evidence we have here is that some members of EU parliament are working under US influence.

    US banned Kaspersky because it discovered post-Snowden NSA hacking tools. What reason EU would have to follow the US ban? Spotting new NSA hacking tool should rather be a good selling point for non US countries, since they are the victims of such tools.

  • One of the few (Score:4, Insightful)

    by AHuxley ( 892839 ) on Thursday June 14, 2018 @08:30PM (#56787300) Journal
    good brands with skills to help detect new malware and tell the world about
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
    Stuxnet
    Flame
    Equation Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
    Duqu
    Nation backed cyber-espionage

    Thats some good real history of protecting users globally. What does the EU cyber defense strategy do? Pass a motion?
  • Why isn't windows 10 getting the same treatment? They ARE data mining, no question about it and no way to completely say stop so why is Microsoft not getting the same treatment? Their is a good argument its malware also.
    • It's cause our tech fobic European lawmakers have no clue about the actual dangers and are just reiterating "facts" without proofs following US guidelines. Esp. note that Kaspersky is labeled "malicious", while we KNOW plenty of US products we use are full of spy-/malware, yet they are not ever mentioned or labeled as dangerous, let alone malicious.
  • So, they intend to force Kaspersky from being one of the top antivirus providers (and probably the only one that refuses to install NSA/CIA backdoors) into... what? Do they think they'll put them out of business?
    Meanwhile, they use their baseless allegations to convince the rest of the populous to install one of the other PC security packages that have backdoors in place for the local spy agencies...
  • Fuck right off

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