Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Government Privacy Security The Internet United States Politics

Will Internet Voting Endanger The Secret Ballot? 219

MIT recently identified the states "at the greatest risk of having their voting process hacked". but added this week that "Maintaining the secrecy of ballots returned via the Internet is 'technologically impossible'..." Long-time Slashdot reader Presto Vivace quotes their article: That's according to a new report from Verified Voting, a group that advocates for transparency and accuracy in elections. A cornerstone of democracy, the secret ballot guards against voter coercion. But "because of current technical challenges and the unique challenge of running public elections, it is impossible to maintain the separation of voters' identities from their votes when Internet voting is used," concludes the report, which was written in collaboration with the Electronic Privacy Information Center and the anticorruption advocacy group Common Cause.
32 states are already offering some form of online voting, apparently prompting the creation of Verified Voting's new site, SecretBallotAtRisk.org.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Will Internet Voting Endanger The Secret Ballot?

Comments Filter:
  • by treczoks ( 64329 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @05:06PM (#52744207)

    Electronic voting is one of the most stupid ideas that politicians have croaked up so far. And that means a lot, even after gerrymandering, lobbyism, and two-party-systems.

    Electronic voting is basically outright stupid. You cannot control if your vote was really counted, or if it was counted for the correct party or candidate. Votes can be manipulated by inside jobs or hacking, and with a political voting result being a very profitable target, and the voting machines safety and security record far from being unblemished, voting fraud is a very interesting goal for many, not only political, parties.

    The problem is that electronic voting cannot fulfill the legal and philosophical demands for a democratic voting. This is not a failure of the planners, programmers, or hardware developers, this is system inherent, as many aspects cannot be implemented correctly without invalidating other important aspects of the same.

    Now there is this totally broken idea and they want make it available online, opening the doors to fraud and abuse even wider.

    • You cannot control if your vote...was counted for the correct party or candidate

      Oh, rest assured your vote would be counted for the "correct" party.

    • by pcause ( 209643 )

      As tech people we tend to focus on the serious technical issues with electronic voting (OPM hack anyone???) when there is a bigger and real world issue - undue influence. When you go to the voting booth no one knows how you really voted. But if there is electronic voting, your boss or your union can set up a bank of systems and "encourage" employees to vote with official watching what they do. Do you want you boss / union boss watching over your shoulder? The real pressure and peer pressure are not to b

      • And an employee can surreptitiously video the vote corruption, and, if laws were set up effectively, get the company or union boss sent to jail for 10 years for tampering with a national/state election.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      They want it because it allows them to rig elections. Look at the current Republican effort to introduce voter registration everywhere, because they know that people who vote Democrat are more likely to be denied a vote when registration is required.

      The technology isn't the issue, it's just another way to make it harder for the "wrong" people to vote.

  • I thought the sectet ballot problem was the same thing as the "digital cash" problem or the "blind signature" problem, both of which are solved [google.com]. It basically involves storing a hash or digital signature of the vote along with the vote. That way no one who does not have a voter ID can vote, and the voter can verify their vote was cast, but no one can determine how they voted. This was solved around 2000, and often discussed on Slashdot at the time [slashdot.org].

  • I guess they haven't heard of smartcards and public key cryptography. Heck, this would even let voters check and verify the integrity of their past votes without anybody else being able to see them.

  • by Puppet Master ( 19479 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @05:28PM (#52744301) Homepage
    are secret anyway. I had to show them my voter registration card, my picture ID, and from that, they entered something into a computer which spit out a 4 digit number. Then that 4 digit number is used on the voting machines. So they already know that my ID is tied to that number and that number is tied to my votes. There's no secrecy any more.
    • by CanadianMacFan ( 1900244 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @07:37PM (#52744761)

      I show the person my registration card and some ID. They cross my name off a printed list of eligible voters and hand me my paper ballot. I then go behind a screen to make my selections, fold the ballot up, and then drop it into a box with all of the others. The system works in Canada and in many other places in the world.

      Why do some people have to make it so difficult?

      • by dryeo ( 100693 )

        Did you vote in the last Federal election? While every other Federal and Provincial election has been much as you described, last was different here.
        Never did get voter registration cards, also no Elections Canada people with lists trying to make sure everyone is registered (could use the list to double check registration) as the government stopped Elections Canada encouraging people to register.
        Checked online, both myself and wife came up as registered with the correct names. My wife mostly uses her maiden

    • In my state (Oregon, vote by mail) I fill in a paper ballot, place it in a secrecy envelope and sign the outside of the envelope. Once they validate my signature by comparing it with the signature on my registration they remove the ballot from the secrecy envelope and put it in the pile of other validated ballots. At that point there is no way to tie a vote back to an individual.

      I can also verify that my vote was accepted for counting by checking online with the Secretary of State's office. If there is a p

      • by fgouget ( 925644 )

        I can also verify that my vote was accepted for counting by checking online with the Secretary of State's office. If there is a problem I may have a chance to fix it depending on timing. All in all I'm confident that my ballot is secret and that it is being counted.

        All you really know is that your vote has been received. They may have thrown it straight into the trash though. That you're confident it is secret and being counted just shows you're of a trusting nature and optimistic.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        I wish people would stop using signatures for ID verification. I have arthritis, I can't reproduce my signature accurately over the long term. It was a real pain with credit cards until they moved to Chip & PIN. Signatures are also rather easy to forge.

  • I gotta ask (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @05:29PM (#52744313)

    Why doesn't anyone trot out Betteridge's Law of Headlines when questions like this come up?

  • How about electronic voting, with the caveat 'we can trace your vote'? I don't care who knows how I vote, I'm pretty vocal about it. For those of us that appreciate the convenience, why not make that the option? And for those who want more privacy (which is questionable in a lot of instances anyway), they can go to a booth. Win-win? (And in some ways I prefer the accountability. If I can see that my vote is actually counted, I feel better than doing it in person where it really could disappear..)
    • by CanadianMacFan ( 1900244 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @07:42PM (#52744783)

      What about people who live or work in areas in which voting for the wrong person could have consequences? Someone working at a coal mine who wants to vote Democrat? A person with an abusive spouse who doesn't want to vote they way they were told to? Just because you are comfortable telling people who you vote for not everyone else has such luxury.

      • That was my instant thought. Amazon sets up warehouse voting areas where employees can vote under supervision "if they want to". Those that don't want to might not have jobs after the election. Every at-will state could work like this if the option to choose not to vote in secret existed.

        I'm even in favor of getting rid of absentee voting for this reason. Lets have the polls open for 2-3 weeks, and offer rides a few of the days instead of mailing ballots back and forth. If you can't make it to an a

        • by fgouget ( 925644 )

          I'm even in favor of getting rid of absentee voting for this reason. Lets have the polls open for 2-3 weeks, and offer rides a few of the days instead of mailing ballots back and forth. If you can't make it to an authorized polling place*, you don't get to vote.

          You could start by having elections on a Sunday instead of having them on a day where almost no one has time to go and wait in line.

  • by melted ( 227442 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @06:15PM (#52744481) Homepage

    "It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." Internet voting would basically remove the last remaining perception of legitimacy from any of this "democracy" farce that we have in this country. If government counts the votes, government will make sure the "right" candidate wins every time.

  • One way to do a secret online ballot would be to have each voter attend a place of registration, where their identity is checked before they get to choose one unique voting card from among thousands. Each card contains online voting codes, which could be used for dozens of ballots.

    The main problem with this is that it makes vote-selling easier than it is with physical poll attendance.

    Remote secret ballots that prevent vote-selling may be impossible, because if you have to verify your identity remotely,

  • It says that blind ballots guard against voter coercion, but that's not true in the least. What's the one going around these days, vote for Clinton so we don't get Trump, if you vote for Stein or Johnson you're voting for Trump? That's blatant, widespread, constant voter coercion.

    At this point I feel like we would be better off making the vote completely transparent. The blind vote isn't helping anyone but the people who would want to rig elections, since there is no way to publicly vet the voting process
  • by EmperorOfCanada ( 1332175 ) on Sunday August 21, 2016 @08:08PM (#52744899)
    Setting aside all the clear fraud, tampering, etc. There is also the possibility of fraud within the household. I can name piles of cultures where the man rules the house; full stop. Immigrants from these countries tend to congregate in communities in many countries. Thus the "man" of the house will do all the voting; can we guess where his voting will lay on the spectrum of women's rights, investigations into honour killings, curtailing of an oppressive religion, etc?

    So in addition to all the wonderful possibilities for fraud and rigged elections, there is the simple disenfranchisement of entire groups.

    Then we have bully voting. Quite simply an enforcer for some minor gang might show up at an apartment block and tell everyone that they vote in front of him and his men.

    The above voting irregularities might not seem like much, except that so many elections are won by a percent or less. In the case of a local councillor or alderman a few hundred votes could easily flip the result of an election.

    In a nation with a problem culture like one of the above. This could easily swing an election.
  • by JavaBear ( 9872 )

    It's that simple. Just a No.

    The moment there is even a possibility for a vote to be monitored and/or identified, you have a broken system.
    The moment there is even a possibility for a vote to be tampered with, there is no vote.

    Voting hinges on the anonymity of the caster, and the transparency and trust in the process. Electronic voting, either on machines or on the internet gives you neither.

  • No one's mentioned Estonia yet, so here we go: http://www.vvk.ee/voting-metho... [www.vvk.ee]: secret ballot over the Internet, separation of voter and vote, vote verification, and last but not least, open-sourced voting software. Researchers have pointed out a few hypothetical attack vectors available to state-level entities (last from 2014) which have been closed ever since, but the bigger problem is actually handling the PR during the elections, in the sense that a malicious person or persons can claim their votes we
    • The problem is that a person can claim their vote is hacked. Which means they can check if their vote was properly cast. Which means so can their boss/a mobster/abusive spouse/guy buying their vote.

      That site says it avoids the issue, so obviously it's not possible to track their vote.

  • by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Monday August 22, 2016 @08:45AM (#52747195)

    I would give up anonymous voting if it meant I could trust my vote couldn't be manipulated in secret.
    Though I do understand the implications of it as some countries in the past have used such systems to remove potential competition to their own party.

    The way I see it, if they're going to cheat to win, may as well make it as difficult and time consuming as possible for them.

  • Voting should be done using a permanent, re-countable record (i.e. paper), in person, and behind a curtain. Computers should never be used vote. You might use them to count votes recorded on paper, but the paper should always be available for quality checks and recounts. Absentee ballots should only be permitted for military or diplomatic personnel, or those with a certified inability to reach the polls. (i.e. note from a doctor.)

He has not acquired a fortune; the fortune has acquired him. -- Bion

Working...