EBay Pressured To Block Sales of Ivory Products 261
RickRussellTX writes "eBay is being pressured
by an animal welfare group to ban sales of ivory and animal tooth
products on its site. Although eBay is in compliance with the Convention on
International Trade in Endangered Species when it warns users that
such postings may be inviolation of national and international law, the
International Fund for Animal Welfare
is demanding that they go a step further to search for and delete any
posting of ivory products."
Have these people never taken an economics course? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Insightful)
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The black market is everywhere. You probably know someone, who knows someone, who knows where to get Ivory. Or heroin. Or modchips. Or unlocked phones. Or dishnet cards. Maybe you know a mechanic who does work on the side, in cash. That's black market too!
The black market is anything and everything that either sidesteps legal control, or evades taxes. It is a term create
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Insightful)
Same for drugs, kiddie-porn and nuke warhead sales?
With that mentality, why bother doing anything which isn't easily accomplished in one small step!
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:5, Insightful)
For the rest of your stupid argument - yes. Kiddie porn is already made, and drugs fall under "my body, my right."
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"Find new and used" nuclear weapons or black people. They've got everything.
http://www.reubenyau.com/black-people-on-ebay-again/ [reubenyau.com]
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Anyone who believes all these things should be legalised should live with a drug addict for 6 months. Believe me, it's not pretty.
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Seriously, there's more at issue than just the cost of the drugs.
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I'll note, however, on the child porn thing... higher demand would equal higher production. So, an artificial demand constraint (illegalizing viewing of it) is necessary, even with artificial supply constraints.
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:4, Insightful)
At least until you wind up addicted and so far out of your mind you'll mug little old ladies to get your next fix.
Then I go to jail for mugging little old ladies. Problem solved.
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At least until you wind up addicted and so far out of your mind you'll mug little old ladies to get your next fix.
Then I go to jail for mugging little old ladies. Problem solved.
The little old ladies don't like being mugged, and they tend to vote.
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:4, Insightful)
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Oh wait! They don't! It's only when drugs are expensive and scarce that drug addicts tend turn to criminal activities to support their habit. That's because even to an addict it's much safer not to engage in risky behaviours when there's a choice.
Cheap, legal drugs such as nicotine (which is, mg for mg more addictive than heroine) don't seem to have this issue. What makes you
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Ivory... mmmm -- I'll go with no, not usually, but sometimes it's okay.
Re:Have these people never taken an economics cour (Score:4, Funny)
I'd say drug abuse definitely has a victim. In fact, anyone who's seen pictures of Amy Winehouse's skin condition has grounds to sue for emotional distress.
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Then again that is the same premise behind gun control so
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Do you EVER listen to people?
A) there is more to gun ownership than killing people
B) outlawing guns will do NOTHING to ensure that the police will be better armed than whoever they're about to encounter. You know, the whole "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" thing.
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And, I'll note that the US Constitution specifically states that people have the right to bear arms... and one huge reason for that is in the event that they DO need to rebel against their government.
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Oh, yeah...
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You're a good example of liberal fascism. (Score:2, Interesting)
Newsflash, a-hole. People have murdered each other since there were people, and they will continue to do so, be it with a knife, a club, or even a spoon. That is the problem with you liberals. You want to try to turn a dangerous world into a warm and safe cocoon for everyone, but the only way you can do so is through fascism. Yo
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Does Ebay sell guns?
Do they sell pharmaceutical narcotics?
it's worth the beaurocratic overhead and the possible negative
press that would come from not correctly vetting all vendors.
Libertarianism is a "fringe" viewpoint. The fact that we're a little weird doesn't alter that.
That will work great (Score:5, Funny)
African Elephant - tusks removed - contains 0% Ivory!
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Pianos (Score:4, Insightful)
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Even when ivory was legal everywhere to buy, it was very, very expensive; thus it wasn't used in many pianos once plastic keys were invented
Re:Pianos (Score:5, Interesting)
Even ignoring the fact that someone killed an elephant to get the ivory for the keys, I've always hated playing on ivory keys as they would break more easily than plastic.
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I'll skip to the end to save you some time (Score:2)
Ebay isn't interested in policing the existing business to protect users, so you can be damned sure it won't do anything for elephants.
Re:I'll skip to the end to save you some time (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not true. eBay bans stuff on its site all the time. Like MMORPG gold. And that's legal everywhere. Before you can decide whether or not eBay will choose to ban ivory, you need to figure out what criteria eBay uses to ban stuff.
In the case of MMORPG gold, it was because large corporations wanted them too (and probably paid them). If people with a lot of power ask them to ban ivory, they might do it. You're right about the little people though. eBay doesn't care about them.
Re:I'll skip to the end to save you some time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I'll skip to the end to save you some time (Score:4, Insightful)
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Thankfully most of the country isn't like that and still honours our constitutional rights.
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They will generally also remove an item if it violates the law (i.e. stuff which is illegal to own or illegal to sell in the way its being sold like scalpers selling event tickets in states where doing so is illegal)
Won't happen. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'll save you some time - they won't. Last time I tried (and this, I will confess, was almost a decade ago) I was told to provide proof that I was the copyright holder.
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Will happen. E-Bay does not allow auctions of guns or gun part or most other gun related items, though they could make money from the sales.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1017-221898.html
Politically they lean on the side of the tree huggers, so I'm sure they will help the animal lovers..
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Politically they lean on the side of the tree huggers, so I'm sure they will help the animal lovers.. :)
It'd be nice if there was a competing site that didn't dictate morality then. It's one thing to restrict illegal activity, and sensible. It's another to restrict legal activity on your own perception of morality. They're a for profit, publicly traded company. To me, it sounds like they're not maximizing profit to their shareholders if they're making choices as to what people can or can't sell, even legally. What about those of us who aren't Vegan, Pro-Gun Control, Environmental Activists that simply w
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If you leave any clues in your Paypal description that the money is for, say, a DIAS module, they'll cancel the transaction.
If you frequent the for sale forums at places like Sniper's Hide you'll see many posts asking for 'discreet Paypal'.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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So... (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, I think he was talking about marijuana being a catch-22. You had to take it to the licensing office to get the permit. But once you got there, you would be arrested for having it without the permit. It was on the History channel a while back.
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Well, if you RTFA, the Fish and Wildlife Service guy states that permits are not required, in contrast to what both IFAW and EBay are saying.
Boo Hoo (Score:2, Interesting)
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http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0703/sights_n_sounds/ [nationalgeographic.com]
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Ah, why can't it be both?
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If you don't know, then I guess that puts you in the ignorant category
Re:Boo Hoo (Score:4, Interesting)
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As long as they follow the law, then they should ignore these request.
If people want it illegal, then they should focus their energy on making it illegal.
I see this shit too often.
People protesting fir stores instead of trying to change the law putting legal business out of business through unethical tactics, People protesting a company the sponsors legal events, instead of focusing on the event.
It's just mean, unethical bully tactics, and we shouldn't stand for it.
It's Forbidden Everywhere else (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's Forbidden Everywhere else (Score:5, Insightful)
They're not exempted from this - I haven't read the article yet (of course) but it says ebay follows all of the laws.
This group wants them to go not sell any Ivory - no antiques, pianos, etc. Nothing. Even if it's perfectly legal.
Next will be any fur and leather products. Stay tuned!
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Re:It's Forbidden Everywhere else (Score:5, Insightful)
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Vintage items? (Score:5, Interesting)
Does anyone know?
I collect old straight razors, and have been looking to sell an old piano (not 100 years old, though) so the issue affects me personally.
Re:Vintage items? (Score:5, Interesting)
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The bigger problem is that it can be tough to tell real ivory from ivory-looking celluloid just by visual inspec
Re:Vintage items? (Score:4, Insightful)
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AAAAaaaagghhhh...
They can't (Score:2)
How could they? The sellers can just lie and say it's pre-CITES. What' eBay supposed to do? Have everyone who wants to sell ivory get some sort of certificate and mail it to eBay before listing? Or eBay inspects everything? The only recourse is to ban all ivory sales.
Ebayny and Ivory... (Score:5, Funny)
(let's sing together !)
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+1 Groan
How much do ya wanna bet.... (Score:2)
The more serious issue (Score:5, Insightful)
The issue that bothers me, and it has nothing to do with elephants or ivory, is that eBay is merely a silent broker in these transactions. Could you realistically expect the relevant carriers of information to ban exchanges of ivory arranged over e-mail? Over postal mail? The telephone? At swap meets?
eBay has built the smoothest, most liquid, easiest-to-use method of arranging private sales between geographically disparate private parties. That results in transaction volume that far exceeds the capability of any single person to review it (and read TFA and you'll see that even IFAW built its statistics by doing the most basic text searches -- they didn't actually try to verify anything).
Organizations that like to tell people what to do and get themselves in the news, like the IFAW, hate such liquid markets. They want all transactions involving their particular interest to be monitored, filtered, verified, etc. Even though they are not willing to do it themselves.
So if we monitor, filter, and verify transactions involving ivory, where do we stop? Do we ever stop? Does private enterprise go away and get replaced by "monitored and certified enterprise"?
Re:The more serious issue (Score:5, Informative)
* Adult Material (see Mature Audiences)
* Alcohol (see also Wine)
* Animals and Wildlife Products - examples include live animals, mounted specimens, and ivory
* Art
* Artifacts - examples include Native American crafts, cave formations, and grave-related items
* Catalytic Converters and Test Pipes
* Cell Phone (Wireless) Service Contracts
* Charity or Fundraising Listings
* Clothing, Used
* Coins
* Contracts
* Cosmetics, Used
* Counterfeit Currency and Stamps
* Credit Cards
* Drugs & Drug Paraphernalia
* Drugs, Describing Drugs or Drug-like Substances
* Electronics Equipment - examples include cable TV de-scramblers, radar scanners, and traffic signal control devices
* Electronic Surveillance Equipment - examples include wiretapping devices, and telephone bugging devices
* Embargoed Goods and Prohibited Countries - examples include items from Cuba
* Event Tickets
* Firearms, Weapons and Knives - examples include pepper spray, replicas and stun guns
* Food
* Gift Cards
* Government and Transit Documents
* Government and Transit Uniforms
* Government IDs and Licenses
* Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Items - examples include batteries, fireworks, and Freon
* Human Parts and Remains
* Importation of Goods into the United States - examples include CDs that were intended only for distribution in a certain country
* International Trading
* Items Encouraging Illegal Activity - examples include an eBook describing how to create methamphetamine
* Lockpicking Devices
* Lottery Tickets
* Mailing Lists and Personal Information
* Manufacturers' Coupons
* Mature Audiences
* Medical Devices - examples include contact lenses, pacemakers, and surgical instruments
* Multi-level Marketing, Pyramid and Matrix Programs
* Offensive Material - examples include ethnically or racially offensive material and Nazi memorabilia
* Pesticides
* Plants (see Weeds and Seeds)
* Police-Related Items
* Political Memorabilia
* Postage Meters
* Prescription Drugs
* Prohibited Services
* Real Estate
* Recalled Items
* Slot Machines
* Stamps
* Stocks and Other Securities
* Stolen Property and Property with Removed Serial Numbers
* Surveillance Equipment
* Teacher's Edition Textbooks
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They're just trolling. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about this "International Fund for Animal Welfare"? Instead of bitching real loud, how about you bid for the ivory, then tell the sellers that you will pick it up. Show up at the seller's door with law enforcement.
Oh, I see. That doesn't get you free advertisement for your fund raising efforts.
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Most governments do not allow Elephants to be killed, or control the killing of elephants very carefully. The poachers who kill the elephants are criminals, just like the person who takes a deer off your land, that is if you own any land, or have the
Poaching is a myth; elephants died of impaction (Score:3, Interesting)
And they discovered that those huge "elephant graveyards" had another cause entirely.
Elephants are grazers, NOT browsers. This means they eat, and are designed to eat, GRASSES. They are NOT designed to eat shoots and twigs, nor can they digest that much cellulose.
The elephants found dead in thos
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If you wait until you receive the product, you are also breaking the law by having the contraband, whether you're the seller or buyer. So they can actually charge you with a crime in your little scenario.
Sorry, still won't work.
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From what I've heard from fellow workers (never been there myself) in most African countries, once the responsible authorities discover who is selling the ivory without paying said authority its proper cut, said seller will get a fast trial and a fair shooting.
In any case, Ebay provides for exposure of the sellers. Driving the trade underground is pointless, if not counter-productive.
C'mon, hippies... (Score:2)
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Domestic cows aren't hunted to extinction.
DAMMIT (Score:2)
eBay Needs a Competitor (Score:5, Insightful)
legitimate sales (Score:2)
Unfortunately, eBay will probably cave on this as they do with so many other things.
Not just a violation... (Score:2)
Thought they were already doing this (Score:2, Interesting)
Ivory trade isn't necessarily bad (Score:2)
First, the ivory ban is not a 100% ban. There is some legal trade in ivory. The legality of an ivory sale depends on the provenance of the ivory. I usually sympathize with environmentalists but it's just ridiculous to try to stop all ivory sales in order to prevent illegal sales.
Second, there is serious question whether the ivory ban is a good policy. Legal, managed hunting [coloradocollege.edu] is a promising alternative. It would be arrogant and stupid to try to tell African or South Asian governments they can't manage t
Elephant Farms (Score:3, Interesting)
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