Going a lower speed can limit the total throughput of a freeway, but having a car accident or a series of braking because someone passess makes things alot worse.
Going a lower speed can limit the total throughput of a freeway, but having a car accident or a series of braking because someone passess makes things alot worse.
I live in a small city with a population of just over 50,000 and nearly as many more in nearby suburbs and sprawl. I can say with complete certainty that slow drivers cause significantly more congestion than occasional problems caused by those going too fast. I see traffic messes several times each week caused by someone going slower than the flow of traffic and doing it in the left-most lane (our passing lane).
The speed limit is there for a reason - it's a safe speed to drive. If you disagree, don't blame the people following the law. Take it to whatever legislative body sets the numbers.
The speed limit also provides a nice method of synchronization between all the drivers. If everybody goes at the posted speed, there are fewer slower drivers, and the rate can be sustained for longer periods of time because fewer accidents will happen.
Now, if we could only make the silly drivers understand that the fastest w
If everybody goes at the posted speed, there are fewer slower drivers, and the rate can be sustained for longer periods of time because fewer accidents will happen.
But that doesn't happen. Not everybody drives the posted speed. I grew up in the sticks, and I currently live in L.A. In neither place does everybody drive at the limit.
Do you have any idea of how dangerous it is to be behind some drooler who enters the freeway while going 40? I see this happen every day. The speed limit on the freeway is betw
The speed limit is there for a reason - it's a safe speed to drive. If you disagree, don't blame the people following the law. Take it to whatever legislative body sets the numbers.
I have a friend who is a civil engineer, and he says the best way to set speed limits is to take all the signs down and measure the speed of a thousand cars passing by, then set the speed limit a standard deviation above the median.
Slowpokes cause a great many accidents. The speed at which the majority of people drive is by
Slowpokes cause a great many accidents. The speed at which the majority of people drive is by definition the safest.
By definition? I don't think you know what that phrase means. It might be true that the speed at which most people drive is safest, but that certainly doesn't follow from the meaning of "the speed the majority of people drive" or the definition of "safest."
(Hint: if you need to perform empirical observation to verify a claim, the claim is not "true by definition.")
Greetings and Salutations... I would argue with this, as it makes a number of incorrect assumptions, including the fact that not all people have the same skills or abilities to drive-yet ALL think they are Mario Andretti. Also, they do not often take into account the road conditions. Look at the number of folks that blast through congested construction zones at 60+ MPH, or, drive at the SAME speed on rain/snow slick roads that they drive when the pavement is dry. There is a very good, if somewhat casual, st
There is a very good, if somewhat casual, study out there that says that the BEST way to remove congenstion is to always drive slow enough to keep a goodly sized (several vehicle length) hole ahead of you.
I believe the "study" you remember may be Traffic Waves [amasci.com] by William Beaty. I originally found this site via somebody else's sig a while back. I spent a good half hour digging it up today so others could read it.
I'm no more qualified to understand traffic than you or he is, but I read it extensively wh
we Americans seem to have a total lack of understanding of the basic rules of polite driving and the physics of motion... It's stupid. It's pigheaded... and, perhaps because we ARE still a pretty young society, it's adolescent.
If you think that Americans are the worst offenders in this regard, you need to travel a little bit more. I've driven on the Italian autostrada and believe me, there is no road so scary in this whole country. Driving in Rome itself was even worse.
Point of pedantry; They must not think they're all Mario Andretti since I've observed Mario driving around town, and he is respectful of all traffic laws. I'm sure that he recognizes that the race track with proper equipment and procedures is the only appropriate venue for the go-fast stuff.
Point of pedantry; They must not think they're all Mario Andretti since I've observed Mario driving around town, and he is respectful of all traffic laws. I'm sure that he recognizes that the race track with proper equipment and procedures is the only appropriate venue for the go-fast stuff.
Yeah, but have you seen where he keeps his car? It's the pits.
Really? I've done quite a bit of driving and haven't yet seen an accident cause by driving to slow.
I've seen (and been involved in) ones cause by people panic stoping or just being stoped without a foot on the break where it's not expected.
However I've seen plenty of accidents caused by people in to big a hurry and eigther lane jumping agressively (and hitting someone or causing the person they cut in front of to slam on the breaks to avoid them) or entering the road or intersection without looking.
A speed limit does encourage a safer flow of trafic than an unregulated speed regime but it does not necessarily make the road safer.
The speed limit is not the safe speed to drive, it is an estimate of a safe speed to drive in normal conditions. If it is raining you should drive slower, and arguably if it is 3am and the road is empty it is a lot slower than the safe speed to drive. In fact there is no safe speed to drive at, only speeds at which either the risk of collision is lower or the risk of conseque
The speed limit is there for a reason - it's a safe speed to drive. If you disagree, don't blame the people following the law. Take it to whatever legislative body sets the numbers.
First, many of the problem drivers actually drive slower than the posted speed limit. Second, most problems caused by slow drivers are because he or she is inconsideratly poking along in the fast/passing lane. Third, at least in the US, the federal government sets most interstate speed limits by providing funding only to those
The speed limit is there for a reason - it's a safe speed to drive.
Nope. The speed limit laws were originally enacted as a way to save energy, during the war. Since then they've gone through ups and downs, of course. But speed limits are usually not based primarily on safety factors.
In some cases, sure. The yellow sign telling to to slow down to 20 MPH for the hairpin turn ahead is definitely based on safety, but the white 45 MPH sign on the long straight road in the middle of nowhere is probably not.
I can say with complete certainty that slow drivers cause significantly more congestion than occasional problems caused by those going too fast.
I've recently moved to a new city where traffic is much slower than what I'm used to, and I have observed something I think is interesting. I think it's problem drivers that cause slow traffic, not slow traffic that causes problems.
Often, here, we get two lanes abruptly becoming one [act.gov.au] (link is pdf), with a minimum of warning. We also have absurdly low speed limi
Often, here, we get two lanes abruptly becoming one (link is pdf), with a minimum of warning.
So maybe it isn't slow speeds that cause congestion, but rather, bad drivers not behaving themselves.
Or maybe it's poor road design. If you make a poorly-designed plumbing system, with pipes too small and rough transitions, and then the water doesn't flow well, you don't blame the water molecules for not figuring out your crappy system.
Well yes, there is a certain amount of that. But the point I was making, badly I guess, was that better drivers who cope well with an unexpected merge tend to drive faster then the poorer drivers who don't cope as well.
Actualy it's not the slower drivers, provided they're at or near the speed-limit (in good conditions), granny or bubba doing 30 in a 60 on a nice day is going to be a problem.
Your momentary speed means very little compared to your average.
I drive a LOT, much of it through a township notorious for ticketing it if it moves, and value my good driving record.
I frequently watch as some idiot trying to go 20+ over jumps back and forth between lanes only to eigther arrive at the next red light seconds b
Unless you got a lot a lot of people doing -5 or more without good reason I'd guesse the main cause of congestion is insufficient road ways primarly followed by idiots who think the gas pedal and not thier brains are the key to quicker trip times.
I agree about smart driving. I frequently see the same thing.
But if you ask me, the primary causes of congestion are: 1) total lack of driving education 2) poorly-designed roadways
The way I see it, you can't blame idiots for being idiots. That's just the way pe
"Who alone has reason to *lie himself out* of actuality? He who *suffers*
from it."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in a small city with a population of just over 50,000 and nearly as many more in nearby suburbs and sprawl. I can say with complete certainty that slow drivers cause significantly more congestion than occasional problems caused by those going too fast. I see traffic messes several times each week caused by someone going slower than the flow of traffic and doing it in the left-most lane (our passing lane).
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:3, Informative)
The speed limit also provides a nice method of synchronization between all the drivers. If everybody goes at the posted speed, there are fewer slower drivers, and the rate can be sustained for longer periods of time because fewer accidents will happen.
Now, if we could only make the silly drivers understand that the fastest w
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:1)
Like I've got time for that...
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:3, Insightful)
But that doesn't happen. Not everybody drives the posted speed. I grew up in the sticks, and I currently live in L.A. In neither place does everybody drive at the limit.
Do you have any idea of how dangerous it is to be behind some drooler who enters the freeway while going 40? I see this happen every day. The speed limit on the freeway is betw
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a friend who is a civil engineer, and he says the best way to set speed limits is to take all the signs down and measure the speed of a thousand cars passing by, then set the speed limit a standard deviation above the median.
Slowpokes cause a great many accidents. The speed at which the majority of people drive is by
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:1)
By definition? I don't think you know what that phrase means. It might be true that the speed at which most people drive is safest, but that certainly doesn't follow from the meaning of "the speed the majority of people drive" or the definition of "safest."
(Hint: if you need to perform empirical observation to verify a claim, the claim is not "true by definition.")
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
You're correct, of course. I don't know how that crept in. I think I was meaning to say "by default," assuming decent road conditions etc.
-ccm
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:1)
I would argue with this, as it makes a number of incorrect assumptions, including the fact that not all people have the same skills or abilities to drive-yet ALL think they are Mario Andretti. Also, they do not often take into account the road conditions. Look at the number of folks that blast through congested construction zones at 60+ MPH, or, drive at the SAME speed on rain/snow slick roads that they drive when the pavement is dry.
There is a very good, if somewhat casual, st
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:3, Informative)
I believe the "study" you remember may be Traffic Waves [amasci.com] by William Beaty. I originally found this site via somebody else's sig a while back. I spent a good half hour digging it up today so others could read it.
I'm no more qualified to understand traffic than you or he is, but I read it extensively wh
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
However...
we Americans seem to have a total lack of understanding of the basic rules of polite driving and the physics of motion... It's stupid. It's pigheaded... and, perhaps because we ARE still a pretty young society, it's adolescent.
If you think that Americans are the worst offenders in this regard, you need to travel a little bit more. I've driven on the Italian autostrada and believe me, there is no road so scary in this whole country. Driving in Rome itself was even worse.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
Point of pedantry; They must not think they're all Mario Andretti since I've observed Mario driving around town, and he is respectful of all traffic laws. I'm sure that he recognizes that the race track with proper equipment and procedures is the only appropriate venue for the go-fast stuff.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
Yeah, but have you seen where he keeps his car? It's the pits.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
I've seen (and been involved in) ones cause by people panic stoping or just being stoped without a foot on the break where it's not expected.
However I've seen plenty of accidents caused by people in to big a hurry and eigther lane jumping agressively (and hitting someone or causing the person they cut in front of to slam on the breaks to avoid them) or entering the road or intersection without looking.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
The speed limit is not the safe speed to drive, it is an estimate of a safe speed to drive in normal conditions. If it is raining you should drive slower, and arguably if it is 3am and the road is empty it is a lot slower than the safe speed to drive. In fact there is no safe speed to drive at, only speeds at which either the risk of collision is lower or the risk of conseque
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
First, many of the problem drivers actually drive slower than the posted speed limit. Second, most problems caused by slow drivers are because he or she is inconsideratly poking along in the fast/passing lane. Third, at least in the US, the federal government sets most interstate speed limits by providing funding only to those
Read your history... (Score:1)
Nope. The speed limit laws were originally enacted as a way to save energy, during the war. Since then they've gone through ups and downs, of course. But speed limits are usually not based primarily on safety factors.
In some cases, sure. The yellow sign telling to to slow down to 20 MPH for the hairpin turn ahead is definitely based on safety, but the white 45 MPH sign on the long straight road in the middle of nowhere is probably not.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
I can say with complete certainty that slow drivers cause significantly more congestion than occasional problems caused by those going too fast.
I've recently moved to a new city where traffic is much slower than what I'm used to, and I have observed something I think is interesting. I think it's problem drivers that cause slow traffic, not slow traffic that causes problems.
Often, here, we get two lanes abruptly becoming one [act.gov.au] (link is pdf), with a minimum of warning. We also have absurdly low speed limi
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
So maybe it isn't slow speeds that cause congestion, but rather, bad drivers not behaving themselves.
Or maybe it's poor road design. If you make a poorly-designed plumbing system, with pipes too small and rough transitions, and then the water doesn't flow well, you don't blame the water molecules for not figuring out your crappy system.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
Or maybe it's poor road design.
Well yes, there is a certain amount of that. But the point I was making, badly I guess, was that better drivers who cope well with an unexpected merge tend to drive faster then the poorer drivers who don't cope as well.
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
Your momentary speed means very little compared to your average.
I drive a LOT, much of it through a township notorious for ticketing it if it moves, and value my good driving record.
I frequently watch as some idiot trying to go 20+ over jumps back and forth between lanes only to eigther arrive at the next red light seconds b
Re:Doesn't slower speed increase congestion? (Score:2)
I agree about smart driving. I frequently see the same thing.
But if you ask me, the primary causes of congestion are:
1) total lack of driving education
2) poorly-designed roadways
The way I see it, you can't blame idiots for being idiots. That's just the way pe