Apparent Islamic Terrorism Strikes Sydney 880
An anonymous reader send this link to a developing situation in Sydney, Australia, being reported on via live feed at the Guardian, and covered by various other news outlets as well. According to CNN's coverage, "CNN affiliate Seven Network said that at least 13 people are being held at the Lindt Chocolate Cafe. It published a photograph of people inside the cafe holding a black flag with Arabic writing on it. The flag reads: "There is no God but God and Mohammed is the prophet of God."
From The New York Times' coverage: The police have shut down parts of the city’s transport system, and closed off the mall area. They would not confirm how many people were being held hostage inside the cafe, nor whether those inside are armed.
Local media reports said that the airspace over Sydney had been closed and the famed Sydney Opera House evacuated. Television images showed heavily armed officers with their weapons trained on the cafe.
Airspace isn't closed (Score:5, Interesting)
The airspace over Sydney isn't closed, nor is its airport. Flights are being diverted around the CBD (both by order from the authorities and voluntarily from the main domestic airlines agreeing to divert).
Wrong... (Score:5, Funny)
There is only a Spaghetti Monster! He is going to meat ball you!
Terroir (Score:5, Funny)
Fundamentalists. They hate us for our chocolate.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Fundamentalists. They hate us for our chocolate.
I understand, once I tried Lindt chocolate, too.
2GB (Score:4, Informative)
If you can get through, 2GB has excellent rolling coverage on their radio station. Ray Hadley (the presenter) has had various calls throughout the morning from one of the hostages who speaking on behalf of the terrorist wants to speak to Tony Abbott (Prime minister) live on air.
http://2gb.com/listen-live
It's just some dipshit with weapons and no hope. (Score:5, Insightful)
You dignify the human waste who perpetrate such idiocy by calling them "terrorists".
They are much more likely to be some loser who has no idea what else to do with
their miserable piece of shit lives, so they decide to do bad things.
Calling them an asshole is much more likely to be accurate. Calling them a terrorist
gives them more credit than all but a tiny fraction of such scum remotely deserve.
Re:It's just some dipshit with weapons and no hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Calling them an asshole is much more likely to be accurate. Calling them a terrorist gives them more credit than all but a tiny fraction of such scum remotely deserve.
I've often had that same thought. Calling them "terrorists" is really glorifying them, at least in the eyes of the impressionable. They are thinking "hey - I want to be a brave terrorist just like him!" All news headlines should refer to them literally as "assholes" or "losers". Then watch how many people now are going to say "hey - I want to be an asshole and a loser just like him!".I don't think quite so many would want to emulate that behaviour.
Re:It's just some dipshit with weapons and no hope (Score:5, Insightful)
Calling them an asshole is much more likely to be accurate. Calling them a terrorist gives them more credit than all but a tiny fraction of such scum remotely deserve.
I've often had that same thought. Calling them "terrorists" is really glorifying them, at least in the eyes of the impressionable. They are thinking "hey - I want to be a brave terrorist just like him!" All news headlines should refer to them literally as "assholes" or "losers". Then watch how many people now are going to say "hey - I want to be an asshole and a loser just like him!".I don't think quite so many would want to emulate that behaviour.
Well, the problem with that is that the people involved don't call themselves "terrorists" in the first place, and they certainly don't care how the Western Media label them.
In their eyes, they are freedom fighters, holy warriors, God's Special Forces, or whatever.
A bit of name-calling really isn't going to stop them.
Tech angle? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Wow, did not know about Uber doing that!
I believe they have an automatic algorithm that adjusts based on supply and demand. So it's not like they're purposely trying to rip people off.
Re: (Score:3)
Then whoever designed the algorithm is purposely ripping people off
Nobody is being forced to pay Uber's prices. There are still taxicabs in Sydney, are there not?
Re:Tech angle? (Score:4, Insightful)
Given the levels of socioeconomic desperation that I've seen throughout much of the world, what surprises me is how few "terrorist" attacks there are on wealthy western countries
Socioeconomic imbalance doesn't cause terrorism. That's a myth.
Uber is doing their part to help (Score:4, Interesting)
Uber is reportedly charging its users in downtown Sydney a minimum $100, a result of surge pricing introduced in the midst of an armed hostage crisis, Mashable has learned.
http://mashable.com/2014/12/14... [mashable.com]
As a former muslim (Score:5, Insightful)
As a former Muslim who lives in western country:
1. Islam is not a peaceful religion, and to believe so you must either be a Muslim or a very naive person. Peaceful Muslims exist of course, but simply because they do not follow Islam strictly enough.
2. Conservative western politicians who make use of terrorism to their own political benefit are not much better than the terrorists, in that both sides have no problem using people's safety to advance their own agenda. Typically they are also the ones that support wars worldwide.
Re: (Score:3)
As a former Muslim
Congratulations on still being alive.
Re:As a former muslim (Score:5, Insightful)
But the issue about not following Islam strictly enough is also true for Christians.
The whole thing is really about the surrounding culture rather than the religion itself. If the culture supports violence then any religious scriptures will be interpreted as such as well.
Re:As a former muslim (Score:4, Interesting)
The trouble is, modern civilised life doesn't really come online until every individual has rights.
Any empire can create peace within its borders, and any Imam or Priest can declare, "when the whole world is under the One True God, then there will be peace."
Whether the empire's leadership is currently moving for aggression, or moving for non-aggression, whether they are attacking, or biding their time to gain political influence, these are merely strategic issues, the aim remains the same, that there is One and only one true way and everyone else who resists is damned to hell.
If you're gay, if you're a woman, if you're the wrong race, or hold the wrong beliefs, then off to hell you go. Because you haven't been given equal rights.
For reasons unknown, the West made it to some semblance of modernity.
Currently, there is a concerted and deliberate effort by the leaders in the Moslem world to push to an Islamic revival, and ISIL is just one branch. The point isn't that the extremists are only tiny a minority (thousands v. 1.6 billion), the point is that the extremists are in positions of leadership and are trying to drag the majority of normal people, including all the Moslems, into a world war. It includes emphasising all the violent doctrines at the expense of the peaceful ones.
The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights, written to oppose "Western" notions of human rights, and which says, yes you have human rights, BUT ONLY the ones permitted by Islam", that was written by the leaders of these Muslim countries. It is the Islamic leadership in its various branches which is causing the problems and dragging the 1.6 billion Moslems into it.
Fake (Score:4, Funny)
Guns aren't allowed in coffee shops in Australia. News story must be fake.
Re:Fake (Score:5, Insightful)
Well we know it wasn't the US or everyone would have whipped out a 44 magnum and the running gun battle consuming the entire suburb would still be going on.
You jest... but in Texas, we have over 800,000 concealed carry permit holders... and gun battles don't break out, well, ever between them...
And I notice that they don't try this stuff here either...
You would be hard pressed to walk into a busy Starbucks here without a dozen people carrying guns, the terrorists wouldn't have hostages, they'd have a fight on their hands, and frankly they are cowards anyway, so they won't do that here.
Re:Fake (Score:5, Insightful)
Well we know it wasn't the US or everyone would have whipped out a 44 magnum and the running gun battle consuming the entire suburb would still be going on.
You jest... but in Texas, we have over 800,000 concealed carry permit holders... and gun battles don't break out, well, ever between them...
And I notice that they don't try this stuff here either...
You would be hard pressed to walk into a busy Starbucks here without a dozen people carrying guns, the terrorists wouldn't have hostages, they'd have a fight on their hands, and frankly they are cowards anyway, so they won't do that here.
The "terrorists are cowards" meme is absurd. Whatever their misguided reasons, someone who is prepared to risk death or lengthy imprisonment for a cause is not a physical coward.
The mistake is categorising courage as an absolute moral good. You might be a brave soldier and a Nazi paedophile, but the bravery itself doesn't make you a good person if you are also raping and murdering children.
Saying that a terrorist has physical courage does not mean you are endorsing their beliefs or actions.
Re:Fake (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought that the "cowards" were the ones that felt that they NEEDED to carry guns everywhere that they went ?
So the hostages in Australia are brave and the police outside with guns are cowards?
Funny how when something like this happens, the first thing everyone does is call the guys with the guns.
I carry a gun so I don't have to call anyone, I'm already there.
Meh. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not the World Trade Center, and it's not Bali. It's a single cafe and a maximum possible body count than your typical school shooting in the US (which can hardly hold the news media's attention for more than a week any more).
This news wouldn't have made it out of Australia (if even NSW) if it weren't for the Islamic bogeyman angle.
It's time to act! (Score:5, Funny)
Extremist news outlets (Score:5, Informative)
Its a lone gunman.
Police arent calling it a terrorism, it wasnt an IS flag being waved, airspace wasnt closed.
But hey, why not use criminal activity to drum commercial media activity.
If you want proper coverage journalism go to ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission), its govenment funded but independently operated.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/201... [abc.net.au]
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm skeptical of the peaceful nature of a religion founded by a warlord; but at this stage we don't know that it's not some nut-job who is trying to capitalise on the ISIS popularity.
(I'm writing from one of the buildings currently in lock-down because of this situation)
Re: (Score:3)
I'm skeptical of the peaceful nature of a religion founded by a warlord
Me too! A religion founded by a warlord sounds like a terrible idea.
But are we talking about Islam(muhammad), Judaism(moses), or Christianity(constantine)?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Hey, I'm not a big fan of Judaism, but working to free your people from slavery does not make you a "warlord". Also, I don't remember anything in Exodus about Moses or his people resorting to violence; the story just has them fleeing the Egyptian army, and the Egyptians being swallowed by the Red Sea after they tried to follow the Jews through it. Of course, this story also claims the Red Sea was parted somehow so they could walk across, so it's highly questionable just how accurate this story is....
Also,
You don't know your Bible or your history (Score:5, Informative)
In the book of Numbers, chapter 31, Moses orders the murder of every man, woman, and child in a city that was promised to his own people. When his army came back with children prisoners of war, he rebuked them, ordered them to slay the male children on the spot, and allowed them to keep the female children for themselves as spoils of war (there are plenty of other stories similar to this about the OT, and involving Moses specifically).
So, yeah, warlord.
And about Constantine founding Christianity...
When the religion was illegal by Roman law, there were many separate Christianities with very different beliefs (and they quarreled with one another, as well as with the Jews that wanted to stay Jewish). Once Constantine decided to make Christianity the official religion of Rome, he also picked the specific set of churches that he agreed with and established their representatives as the proper religious authorities. They promptly declared the other varieties of Christianity to all be heresy, had their books burned (some recently recovered in the Nag Hammadi library revealing just how different these Christianities were).
So, Christianity (or at least Catholicism) as we know it today was very much the work of Constantine.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:4, Informative)
In retrospect, I should not have posted the "brick testament" link. It was needlessly snarky.
Here are a few passages about Moses' military exploits, without the snarky lego commentary.
The slaughter of women and children at Midean: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=28... [oremus.org]
The slaughter of women and children at Bashan: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=28... [oremus.org]
The slaughter of women and children at Heshbon: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=28... [oremus.org]
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm hopeful that someday we all can learn to peacefully cohabit this planet [huffingtonpost.com], and maybe even stand up for and protect each other. [dailymail.co.uk]
Some people use religion as an excuse to hurt or kill, while others use it as inspiration to improve their own and others' lives. I think it has more to do with the person than the religion.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Informative)
Might be referring to the numerous sting operations bordering on entrapment where the prime impetus for a group of would-be terrorists turns out to be an undercover federal agent encouraging them to cause trouble.
The police here were using illegal spyware to infiltrate peoples computers to capture data, instead of using the legal processes available to them, to reveal some "potential" attacks.They then whipped up a media frenzy to garner support to pass new security legislation that would legalize the use of such methods. Of the 16 "suspects" 15 were released without charge and a 16th on a minor charge.
This sort of thing is what that legislation was supposed to prevent.
Re: (Score:3)
Might be referring to the numerous sting operations bordering on entrapment where the prime impetus for a group of would-be terrorists turns out to be an undercover federal agent encouraging them to cause trouble.
How much "encouragement" would it take to convince you to:
- Walk into a building with a suicide bomb vest and attempt to detonate it
- Park a van full of explosives at a public event and push the detonator in the middle of the ceremony
The stings offered them the opportunity to engage in terrorism, nothing more. They had the intent.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:4, Informative)
Constantine did not found the RCC. He just changed Roman law so that it would be legal. The RCC predates Constantine, and was solidly entrenched in Roman society by the time Constantine made it a legal religion. Constantine's change in Roman law wasn't proactive; it was reactive.
Re: (Score:3)
A book which is filled with innuendos, deceits and lies, no matter how you look at it, should never be considered as " holy " !!
I agree, so I really have to wonder why you quote from it.
Snide comments aside, you do know that what you consider your "holy bible" today is nothing but a selection of scriptures that someone who happened to have been in power when they were selected wanted to be "holy" while considering what didn't further his agenda was tossed aside as "apokryphic", i.e. "not holy", yes? That the oh so holy bible is nothing but a collection of those stories that fit into someone's power plan.
Not to mention that you're qu
Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are about 500,000 Muslims in Australia.
1 of them is committing this crime.
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Informative)
That's why there were raids at 149 locations this morning in Australia too. It's only one...yep. And that's why if you go look at the studies on "who supports fundamentalism" and "jihad to install islam" you'll find that in western countries 8-25%(sometimes more) support the use of violence to do so, that includes suicide bombings.
Just a few links:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... [telegraph.co.uk]
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories... [cbsnews.com]
http://pewresearch.org/assets/... [pewresearch.org]
http://www.pewforum.org/upload... [pewforum.org]
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
Last time 8000 police raided anything they were able to charge precisely 0 people with any crimes whatsoever.
Re: (Score:3)
Quote from your Pew Research link:
Overall, 8% of Muslim Americans say suicide bombings against civilian targets tactics are often (1%) or sometimes (7%) justified in the defense of Islam.
Emphasis mine. This does not support the claim of jihads or fundamentalism, unless you interpret the "defense of Islam" to mean "spread Islam everywhere". Might be interesting to compare that against a similar poll for Christians; I suspect you'd have similar results.
We could maybe try just leaving their religion alone? Then not only the great majority of peace-loving Muslims would be happier, but most of the rest too. Save the aggressive response for the nutjob violent in
Re: (Score:3)
Just a warning about the quality of that survey data. Exactly how do you expect people to answer questions in a country with Sharia law about Sharia law, when for a Muslim under Sharia law, it is akin to blasphemy to critique that particular rather obnoxious book, not that it is obnoxious on it's own, other religious works also should face public criticism for their content, most well known being the bible and Torah. The biggest problems with Sharia law are of course once implemented it is a death penalty
Re: Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean you already know the results of the raids from ~4 hours ago? Amazing, post doxss.
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
Conservative Christians do indeed suck, but I can't think of any serious terrorist or even violent activity by Christians in a very long time, except for a couple cases of some lone wacko shooting an abortion doctor. Muslims, however, are infamous for organizing to do violent deeds. Advocating for various laws (which aren't very successful BTW, gay marriage is becoming more and more accepted in America now and is becoming legal all over; these days I think most ultraconservatives are more worried about illegal immigration, gun control, and various other issues than about gay marriage) is not similar to carrying out violent, terroristic acts.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The difference is the power structure.
You don't have to personally beat someone for your beliefs if you can have the police do it for you because your beliefs are the law.
The same can be said (and has) about the black "rioters" an
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
The US has a secular government, and US government actions aren't in support of the Christian religion. Your claim is nonsense.
Re:Check your math. (Score:4, Insightful)
At first I thought it's a sarcastic comment, then I saw who made it.
Sorry. But you don't. If in every speech some politician gives he has to invoke god in some way, you do NOT have a secular government. If there is any doubt, just one look into your laws dispels it quickly.
Re: (Score:3)
yes, he absolutely did.
"George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month." (emphasis mine - I mean, Blues Brothers much?) http://www.theguardian.com/wor... [theguardian.com]
"President Bush's reference to a "crusade" against terrorism, which passed almost unnoticed by Americans, rang alarm bells in Europe. It raised fears that the terrorist attacks could spark a '
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are 14.5 million Christians in Australia (61% of the population [wikipedia.org]). None of them is committing a crime in the name of his religion.
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Interesting)
Citations...
The comparison is valid. Those 500K Muslims in Australia — their shops, kindergartens, restaurants, etc. — would've been juicy low-hanging fruits for any Christian terrorist — had there been one among the 14.5 millions...
That's probably because Christianity does not require believers to spread the faith — at the point of a weapon, if necessary. It has happened in the past, but not because anything in the scripture mandates it. Unlike in Koran... So a Christian fanatic, who wishes to live by the word of his god is not compelled to convert or kill anyone. A Muslim fanatic, unfortunately, is...
Re:Check your math. (Score:4, Insightful)
The Iraq war what? Do you have any data supporting the claim, that Americans have joined their military because of their Christian beliefs, which compelled them to kill Muslims? Put up or shut up...
Once again, nothing in Christian scripture compels Christians to fight other faiths. On contrast, Koran does so compel its followers. That's the fundamental asymmetry..
I said nothing about "preaching". I said, Muslim faithful are compelled — by their religion — to fight for spreading Islam world-wide and to establish a Califate.
There is nothing of the kind in the Bible.
IRA's fight was purely secular — nothing in Catholicism insists nor mandates the sort of things they've done. Muslims, once again, must fight other religions — in order to remain good Muslims. Because Koran — which they believe to be the word of God verbatim — says so.
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Interesting)
The Iraq war what? Do you have any data supporting the claim, that Americans have joined their military because of their Christian beliefs, which compelled them to kill Muslims? Put up or shut up...
I didn't claim that. I claimed that some Americans were joining the military for the same reasons that some Muslims become terrorists, to defend their religion and culture against its perceived enemies.
And yes, this occurs [scienceblogs.com]:
Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.
...
This is hardly the first time something like this has happened. We’ve had soldiers painting Bible verses on turrets of tanks and on bombs on airplanes. We’ve had soldiers handing out Bibles to the locals. The Pentagon and the American government seems to understand that this is very, very bad for American credibility in the Muslim world because it sends the message that this is a religious war of Christianity vs Islam.
And don't forget Ann Coulter [townhall.com]
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.
That sounds a hell of a lot like terrorist ideology to me except she's able to carry out her religious war via army instead of suicide bomber. Don't you think there were a few people who thought like Ann Coulter and joined the military? Enough to rival the number of Muslim terrorists?
I'm not saying Iraq war=terrorism or Drone attacks=terrorism, but I will say that a lot of people who turn to terrorism in the Middle East would be able to fulfil those urges as soldiers in the West.
Crusades? Residential schools? Inquisitions? The mechanisms are different but Christianity has it's own long history of aggressive attempts to spread the faith.
Comparison equally valid on both sides (Score:3)
If you're a religious fanatic in the Middle East and want to kill Christians you become a terrorist. ...
Or, you can join ISIS (the army killing and/or enslaving/raping everyone including Christians).
So there's an equal choice to be had, yet some are choosing to capture and harm non-military forces - those people doing so have been wholly Muslim.
Re:Comparison equally valid on both sides (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not trying to defend them, they're as ridiculous a caricature of villainy as you can get, but they're a product of the east west dynamic much more than a product of Islam.
Right .....
ISIS Jihadis Get ‘Slavery for Dummies’ [thedailybeast.com]
One of the biggest problems the West has is recognizing them for what they are based on their actions and who they say they are as opposed to what the politically correct nonsense being published in the West says about them.
Unfortunately it isn't just ISIS, Al Qaida, and company.
Russian Blondes Wanted for Islamic Sexual Slavery [frontpagemag.com]
“I hope that Kuwait will enact the law forsex slaves” [jihadwatch.org]
Re:Check your math. (Score:4, Informative)
There were two incidents of violence against abortion-clinics in Australia [wikipedia.org], neither of them obviously motivated by Christian faith.
You don't have to be a Christian to consider fetus a human — it is a rather common opinion, even I personally do not share it.
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
There are about 500,000 Muslims in Australia.
1 of them is committing this crime.
It doesn't matter how many peaceful Muslims there are. What matters is that, in comparison to all other religions on earth, theirs produces the greatest number of terrorists per capita. The remaining "silent majority" either silently support their actions, or are afraid to speak out against it or are apathetic. Either way does us no good.
I'm not saying that all Muslims are extremists, but to imply that Islamic extremists are in any way similar in style or number to extremists from other cultures is factually inaccurate.
We should be supporting moderate Muslims by cracking down super hard on their extremists. The fact that they don't crack down on their own extremists (as other societies do) is a major problem that they need to fix (and one which requires us to pressure them to do so).
Re:Check your math. (Score:5, Insightful)
1 of them is committing this crime.
In the name of his religion.
What they need is a local Imam to get on a megaphone and tell this guy that this is not in keeping with Islam and that he (the Imam) will personally supervise his body being fed to pigs if he doesn't come out RIGHT NOW.
Re: (Score:3)
There are about 500,000 Muslims in Australia.
1 of them is committing this crime.
This.
Its a lone wolf.
And given that his demand is a live debate with the Prime Minister, Tony Abbott its a fair assumption to say that this is directly tied to the anti-islamic raids that took place earlier this year.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
Islam is a peaceful religion, that's why followers just went out of their way to do this. And in Canada we had two terrorist attacks(one in Quebec), and another on Parliament Hill in two days.
My interpretation is that Islam is just like any other religion. A bunch of people who think their religion wants them to be perfectly nice and peaceful, and a bunch of others who think it demands they cleanse the Earth of non-believers.
If you followed the attacks in Canada you noticed that the attackers were recent converts to Islam. Their attacks weren't motivated by Islam, they were motivated by ISIL's culture of terrorism and enabled by whatever personal demons caused them to jump headlong into a new religion. Islam is just the language that ISIL uses to communicate that culture.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, when you're more irrational than Bush, it's time to stop and think if you have a problem in your head.
Re: Don't worry guys... (Score:3)
Perhaps it will stop happening here, but it will still happen in the middle east. It's not like the middle east is a peaceful place without the west butting in. The Muslims have still got plenty to do blowing each other up.
Re: (Score:3)
If you don't live in the Middle East, then it's not so much of a problem for you.
Re: Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
Learn? Learn? LEARN?
Crack open a book sometime. Islam has been trying to take over the rest of the world pretty much since the day it was founded. Liberal fantasies about Western colonialism are flatly contradicted by the entire rest of history. From Charlemange to Dracula the rest of the world was actively under siege.
This is just the next chapter in a very long history that's not pretty if you actually bother to pay attention to it.
Being able to ignore their oil really wouldn't change the situation all that much.
Re: Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
And is EXACTLY the same as Christianity.
Both are religions that base their entire structure around "we are the one true correct path and all others are wrong". Both have been used to dominate other populations.
That said religion is just a tool to control the masses. It is no different to other ideologies in that case.
Re: (Score:3)
Clarifying question: To what degree do you fear that the Pope will declare a new Holy War and call upon Christendom to launch armies against some opponent?
Zero?
Re: (Score:3)
To which I answer the same degree that I am concerned that the leader of the largest sections of Islam will do. Zero.
The degree to which I fear that splinter section of the Christian faith will take up arms against Islam is about on the same level as my concern of splinter Islamic groups taking up arms against the west. Christian extremists are the ones that will fire bomb paediatrician offices remember. I would not want to be of Islamic faith in America at the moment because I think even walking down th
Re: (Score:3)
If that is what you believe then you believe a lot of nonsense.
Iran considers itself at war with the US, and you may recall that it is ruled by Shia Islam clerics.
Radical Islam has been at war with the West and Israel for decades. Invidual factions have had tens of thousands of members. Something on the order of 100,000 Jihadis are believed to have gone through al Qaida's training camps in Afghanistan alone. You would think that by now if there was going to be a "Christian extremist" splinter group take
Re: Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Funny)
What degree of risk would you associate with the KKK, a predominately Christian organisation, may start targetting muslins? I would say it is non-zero.
Well, maybe, but as long as they stick to targeting muslin and don't attack wool or polyester, I think we'll be OK.
Re: Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
And is EXACTLY the same as Christianity.
No, it really isn't.
In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
For you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard.
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
Christianity advocates persuasion and being an example. "Fundamentalist" christianity is actually very peaceful. That doesn't prevent very unpeaceful people from trying to commandeer a philosophy's good reputation and use it for to try to conquer others, but those types of people will use anything they can get their hands on.
Re: (Score:3)
So it is no different to Islam then.
The core Islamic faith does not promote violence. It is co-opted to do so. There are a load of sections of the bible which when taken out of context sound like they promote violence. The Koran is the same.
“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Funny)
didn't expect that...
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Funny)
Nobody does.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, Christianity is a peaceful religion too. Perhaps that explains the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition.
Crusades are easy, that would be a response to 100 years of Muslim rape, slaughter, and forced conversion in Spain. The Spanish Inquisition gets interesting, because it was a direct result of that. Surprise right? You're dealing with an entire group of extremists that responded to extremists in kind. Then again, that's not what they teach in school anymore is it. Rather many paint it as "it was all the christians fault."
Mods on crack? (Score:4, Insightful)
Aside from the fact that Christians did exactly the same when they reconquered the Iberian peninsula, and aside from the fact that in that time Muslim societies were far more liberal than any Christian society (Jews usually fled to Muslim countries from Christian countries), would you mind explaining why no bloody crusade ever went west to Spain, but all East to Jerusalem?
The crusades were the product of a fanatical Christian society, with the motivation of paradise for the soldiers and spoils of war for the commanders. They sacked, plundered, raped anything between Europe and Jerusalem, and that includes Costantinople [wikipedia.org] that at the time was Christian. Which was expected of any serious army at that time. The pretext for war was the "liberation" of Jerusalem, and the real drive was a combination of poverty, ignorance, greed and religion. So the crusades were pretty much the ISIS of the second millenium.
Do read up some history lest you spout more of such nonsense.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Informative)
The Crusades were a backlash against Muslim invasion nitwit.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Informative)
You can get enlightened here [wikipedia.org]. I quote:
The First Crusade (1096–1099) ... ended as a military expedition by Roman Catholic Europe to regain the Holy Lands taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant (632–661), ultimately resulting in the recapture of Jerusalem in 1099. It was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuq Turks from Anatolia.
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Interesting)
There is nothing in attributed to the Christian god himself — nor any of his prophets — that required Crusades or the Inquisition.
On contrast, Koran — which purports to be the word of god verbatim — mandates that the faithful convert or kill the pagans and (tax the Christians and Jews [wikipedia.org]). The prophet himself — whom Muslims world-wide adore [washingtonpost.com] — was an illiterate warlord, who used genocide [wikipedia.org] centuries before it became cool.
Bible has plenty of warlords too, but none of them are His prophets. King David is described as a hero, but he killed too many people to found the Temple [stackexchange.com] — the task was left to his son. Not the sort of quibbles, Muslims would consider...
The Crusades ended in the 14th century. Spanish Inquisition (a secular institution, BTW — ran by Spanish Crown) is also many centuries in the past. Since then the Western world has created the First Amendment, among other things. If you have nothing contemporary to contrast the ongoing craziness of the "religion of peace", you've lost your argument...
Re:Don't worry guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
Both of the people were mentally ill. Bibeau, the homeless Ottawa killer, had a history of violence, drug addiction, and mental instability, including 12 convictions in Quebec between 2001 and 2011 for crimes including drug possession, impaired driving, weapons offences, assault causing bodily harm, theft, and possession of break-in tools, which started long before he converted to islam.
Rouleau, the Quebec killer, had been taken to a psychiatric hospital by his father, but they couldn't keep him when he said he wanted to leave. He had drug problems, had to be in a special school for kids with discipline problems when he was younger, his personal life had fallen apart, his business had failed and last year at 24 he turned to islam, looking for something to cling to where he wouldn't feel like an inadequate failure, and was attracted to the extremists on the net and in the media.
Most people are able to make the distinction between a nutbar using a religion as a smokescreen to their using violence to escape their own failures or shortcomings, and the majority who peacefully practice that same religion. This applies equally to muslims, christians, atheists, or whatever your personal preference or poison.
Re:Muslims? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Insightful)
Some people consider it a "hate site" for some reason
It contains facts that doesn't fit with their world view.
Re: (Score:3)
Why on earth would you say that? That's not a logical argument. If someone tells you some facts, and they happen to have already made up their mind on what those facts imply, that's still a perfectly valid source of knowledge to use.
You're not obliged to accept their conclusion, unless it logically follows from the facts. And if you don't accept their conclusion even w
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm still talking about the list of attacks. That is a summary of facts. I've randomly sampled some of the attacks some time ago and none of them was made up; all of them happened. It's not a "soundbite" or a "pre-baked conclusion" "made to look factual" that a policeman was beheaded by Muslims for religious reasons on this December's first day, BBC reports on it [bbc.com]. And if the authors of that web site indeed only "cherry-picked" some of them, as you insinuate, I'm not sure I want to see the rest.
At this point
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Insightful)
But that isn't your argument.
Your argument is that Islam is inherently violent (which is what the site you linked to is trying to say). Dont try to change the argument to all religions because you've been proven wrong (you want a list of attacks, the IRA did over 10,000 bombings on its own).
Extremism is bad and causes people to do irrational things. Your brand of extremism is as bad as any other.
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Insightful)
Moving the goal posts means you've lost the argument.
You said it yourself, this guy trippled Norways yearly homicide rate in 3 days. How many of the Muslim incidents you allude to occur in war zones or countries that have an open revolution? Most of them. It's like saying all Christian nations are unsafe by Colombia as an example. The difference between us is that I can recognise BS and you cant.
Norway is an extremely safe country and a rational one. The way Norway picked up and carried on After Breivik is a shining example to us all. No fear mongering or revenge wars.
But where are the extremist Islamic attacks in Norway... at least one per week please.
And this makes you a xenophobe.
Which was the point of my argument, you aren't interested in the truth, you're interested in things that agree with you.
Now here's the kicker, I'm an Australian, I live in Australia and I know a hell of a lot more about this than you do considering how biased and inaccurate your sources are.
This guy is simply not right in the head. It's not that he's a Muslim that caused this, its the fact he's mentally ill. He's already lost 5 of his hostages (they escaped out the back door) he's that incompetent. This is more an indication of Australia's failing mental health care than the rise of Islamic extremism.
Australia reaps what it sows (Score:3, Insightful)
This is what you get when you're short-sighted with your immigration policy
When they have the numbers, they will be up to their mischief
Look around the world, you'll see that this is not a new phenomenon -
They will first DOMINATE - becoming a very vocal minority
Then they will INTIMIDATE - and call anyone who disagree with them "racist" or "hater" and everything their opponents do as "hate speech", "hateful acts"
... and ultimately...
They will SUBJUGATE - the Middle East, Pakistan, Iran, Nort
Re: (Score:3)
It all depends on your definition of terrorist attack. You know the saying, war is the terror of the rich, terror the war of the poor. So, is it a terrorist attack when a smart bomb "accidentally" levels a civilian building and kills a few hundred because someone had a hunch that there might have been someone he wanted dead?
Re:Muslims? (Score:4, Interesting)
Be sure to tell the Albigensians [wikipedia.org]. I'm sure they'll be glad to know this.
Re:What's recent? (Score:4, Interesting)
As far as I can tell, by definition, when supporting ANY side in the Ukrainian conflict, you're supporting the bad guys...
Re:Muslims? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can I just think that taking orders from your invisible imaginary friend is a case for a shrink, no matter what you call him?
Re:Color me surprised (Score:4, Insightful)
You think someone wanting to fight and die because his imaginary friend told him it's a good idea is NOT mentally deranged?
Re:Copied from elsewhere... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
TL;DR no, it should not have been translated, but whomever decided to had some damned reason or another, so you'll have to ask that person to see if this was justified.
It's an interesting question, and I'm on both sides of the fence. God and Allah are both the God of Abraham, spiritual head of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
"God" in western Christianity seems to be nameless, with the generic "god" becoming a proper name. We capitalize the word because there is only one god, and that is the god to which
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, observant Jews would use a euphemism. They never use the word for G-d, but say, for example, "Hashem" (The Name), or "Ha Kadosh Baruch Hu" (The Holy One Blessed Be He).
Re:Australian Gun Laws are STRICT! (Score:4, Informative)
Of FFS. Please stop spreading your ignorance.
You can easily obtain a firearm in Australia. In fact I own multiple. The thing is you have to be licensed and have a valid reason for owning one, and self defence is not a valid reason. You need to be a member of a club, pass a police check and have some character references. Then you need to wait a year after getting your license. It's a bit of a pain in the arse but it is far from impossible.
I own multiple semi-automatic pistols for competition shoots and a bolt action rifle for bench rest shooting.
Whether you agree with the gun laws in Australia, and as a shooter I do, to say they are near impossible to own is complete crap. What I would say is that Australia is a very safe place to live and your chances of getting shot here is almost zero. You don't ever hear about kids getting shot cause the knocked on the wrong house door during Halloween.
Re: (Score:3)
Of FFS. Please stop spreading your ignorance.
You can easily obtain a firearm in Australia. In fact I own multiple. The thing is you have to be licensed and have a valid reason for owning one, and self defence is not a valid reason. You need to be a member of a club, pass a police check and have some character references. Then you need to wait a year after getting your license. It's a bit of a pain in the arse but it is far from impossible.
This,
A thousand times this.
There's so much misinformation about firearms in Australia its not funny.
It's not hard to get guns in Australia unless you've got a criminal record. I used to have guns (I moved and it was just simpler to sell them) and my character reference was the administrator at my school (she was also a JP) and that was at age 18.
Only fully automatics and semi-automatics are banned here. That is a good thing because this tool walked into a cafe with a shotgun, not an AK47. At wor
Re:Australian Gun Laws are STRICT! (Score:5, Informative)
Only fully automatics and semi-automatics are banned here. That is a good thing because this tool walked into a cafe with a shotgun, not an AK47. At worst it's a double barrel sawn off
Just to clarify this as it is a little more fine grained that an outright ban. To own a semi-automatic rifle you need to be in a career which requires it. So culling from a helicopter is one of the few occupations which allows you to own a semi-auto rifle. Semi-auto pistols though are a standard item in IPSC and ISSF competitions so you are able to own them without a problem but the size of the magazine is restricted to 10 shots. There is however no restriction on the number of mags you carry (odd I know).
Pistol ownership also requires you to actually use the weapons rather than just say that you do. So if you own just 1 pistol you must do a minimum of 6 competitive shoots with that weapon each year. If you own 2 or more you must do a minimum of 4 with each. I own a .22 semi an air and a .32 semi so I need to do a minimum of 12 competition shoots per year.
Fully automatic rifles or pistols are outright banned. As are self-loading and pump action shotguns.
Re:Australian Gun Laws are STRICT! (Score:4, Funny)
Australia doesn't have the 2nd Amendment.
Not true. The second amendment to the Australian Constitution in 1910 amended Section 105 so that it read
The Parliament may take over from the States their public debts, or a proportion thereof according to the respective numbers of their people as shown by the latest statistics of the Commonwealth, and may convert, renew, or consolidate such debts, or any part thereof; and the States shall indemnify the Commonwealth in respect of the debts taken over, and thereafter the interest payable in respect of the debts shall be deducted and retained from the portions of the surplus revenue of the Commonwealth payable to the several States, or if such surplus is insufficient, or if there is no surplus, then the deficiency or the whole amount shall be paid by the several States.
Where previously it had read
The Parliament may take over from the States their public debts as existing at the establishment of the Commonwealth , or a proportion thereof according to the respective numbers of their people as shown by the latest statistics of the Commonwealth, and may convert, renew, or consolidate such debts, or any part thereof; and the States shall indemnify the Commonwealth in respect of the debts taken over, and thereafter the interest payable in respect of the debts shall be deducted and retained from the portions of the surplus revenue of the Commonwealth payable to the several States, or if such surplus is insufficient, or if there is no surplus, then the deficiency or the whole amount shall be paid by the several States.
Idiots amongst posters. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry to hear this unfolding :(
An unarmed populous is easier to terrorize. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org] When being armed is illegal (or restricted to the point of being nearly that), only the bad guys will be armed in such situations. Waiting for the police to come save you is often an ineffective endeavor.
Australia's gun laws are what has prevented this person from having an assault rifle. He's armed with a small single barrelled shotgun. Having more armed people will ensure that more incidents like this will occur and a lot more often.
And I am an Australian. Our gun laws have prevented things like this as criminals cant get easy access to guns.
We are not terrorised here I can assure you.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And here, mass shootings tend to only take place in areas that prohibit or have severely curtailed the carrying of firearms.
LK