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Feinstein and Rogers: No Clemency For Snowden 504

Posted by timothy
from the state-vs-man-for-real dept.
Ars Technica reports, probably to no one's surprise, that U.S. elected officials are unlikely to start seeing Edward Snowden as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government. From the article:"[Sunday], the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), and her House counterpart, Mike Rogers (R-MI), both emphasized there would be no mercy coming from Washington. 'He was trusted; he stripped our system; he had an opportunity—if what he was, was a whistle-blower—to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation. 'But that didn’t happen. He’s done this enormous disservice to our country, and I think the answer is no clemency.'"
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Feinstein and Rogers: No Clemency For Snowden

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  • At which point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:04AM (#45323657)

    He'd be kept quiet one way or another.

  • Yeah, right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by msauve (701917) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:10AM (#45323669)
    "f what he was, was a whistle-blowerâ"to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee,"

    Those thugs continue to support government spying on citizens. Whistleblowing does nothing unless it's brought to the attention of someone who both cares and is in a position to do something.

    BTW, Mike Rogers is complaining that "Federal data hub threatens privacy," with regard to the Federal Data Services Hub, a component of the health insurance exchanges created by Obamacare, but supports the NSA. He's a disingenuous hypocrite.
  • by JeffOwl (2858633) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:11AM (#45323677)
    Does anyone actually believe that if he had gone to the Senate or the House that anything would change, that the concerns would have been addressed?
  • by tlambert (566799) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:17AM (#45323705)

    So what exactly are the phone numbers for the House Intelligence Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee, so that, you know, future whistle blowers can call them up, and not end up like Snowden?

  • by SpaghettiPattern (609814) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:18AM (#45323709)
    'He was trusted; he stripped our system...' Snowden could claim exactly that against the NSA. This is beyond the pot calling the kettle black.
  • FTFY (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Titus Groan (2834723) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:19AM (#45323713)
    "Weâ(TM)ve done this enormous disservice to our country, and he's exposed us for that."
  • by the grace of R'hllor (530051) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:21AM (#45323723)
    Especially channels amenable to spying on US citizens, we would never have heard of Snowden or the spy programs. If he had then tried to publish via other means, neither would his family.

    At the risk of Godwin:
    If you were, say, a German administrator learning about the death camps and being absolutely appalled, reporting it to any senior Nazi official wouldn't do much good.
  • by serviscope_minor (664417) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:22AM (#45323743) Journal

    This shows how messed these people are. Of course he was a traitor to the government. But he and no one else owes loyalty to the government. The fact that these people believe that they, personally, are owed loyalty says far more about them than it does about Snowden. If he's a traitor then the question is if he was a traitor to the country and it's citizens.

    I'm inclined to go with "no".

  • by jmcvetta (153563) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:28AM (#45323775)

    How is this fucking authoritarian fascist even sort-of, possibly, slightly representative of the views of the majority of Californians?

  • by poodlediagram (1944244) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:32AM (#45323793)

    Quite agree.

    Given that James Clapper was perfectly willing to lie to Congress, what would the NSA administration have done to a 29 year old system administrator, had he aired his views to them? He would have been sidelined, fired or arrested, that's what. And we would be none the wiser.

    It is amusing that politicians will express the need for public discussion about NSA surveillance and then condemn Snowden in the next sentence. You can't have one without the other.

    In my opinion, he is the definitive whistle-blower. He had only one way to reveal the NSA/GCHQ excesses and revealed them in the right way. Further, he gained nothing personally from all this: no money and he seems to dislike the attention. And spending a month in a Russian airport can't be much fun.

    He has my gratitude and admiration, and I wish him well.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:33AM (#45323795)

    "Been caught" being the operative term. Every modern country does this kind of stuff, and everyone else knows it. This whole charade of shock and disgust -- from Russia and other US frenemies offering Snowden asylum to European countries feigning ignorance -- is merely an attempt by other countries at scoring political points, while desperately trying to keep a lid on their own domestic programs. I mean, seriously... Russia was recently caught poisoning a potential defector with a rare radioactive isotope, presumably to ensure that their official denials would be discounted by others of a similar mind.

    Does anyone really think -- I mean, really think -- that the entities screaming the loudest about this stuff are in any way concerned about your freedom and/or privacy? Grow the fuck up; the real world doesn't operate like that.

  • clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by duckintheface (710137) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:34AM (#45323799)

    There is a lot more that Snowden has not released yet. He is wisely using the drip, drip, drip method of disclosure so the press and public have time to digest each successive piece of information. Before it's done, it will become clear that the House and Senate oversight committees were either derelict in their duties or complicit in illegal activities. They either knew or they didn't. Either way, eventually they will be the ones asking for clemency.

  • by Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:34AM (#45323801)

    Every time Rogers opens his mouth he says that the intelligence committee was fully briefed and that they knew what was going on. What Feinstein and Rogers are implicitly admitting is that Snowden didn't just blow the whistle on the NSA. He blew it on the intelligence committee too for not doing their job of oversight.

    Its just silly to think he should have reported to them that they were corrupt and/or incompetent.

  • Yeah, right. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jcr (53032) <jcr.mac@com> on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:34AM (#45323803) Journal

    Feinstein knows full well that this country doesn't have a functioning justice system. If we did, she'd be behind bars herself.

    -jcr

  • Re: Yeah, right... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ebno-10db (1459097) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:41AM (#45323833)

    If only that were true.

  • Re:At which point (Score:4, Insightful)

    by flyneye (84093) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:42AM (#45323835) Homepage

    Someday there will be no clemency for Feinstein and Rodgers.

    You know, I've been thinking recently, we watch this from our perspective. Snowden, who loves the People of the United States, does the morally right thing, because it is RIGHT. We know it is right because those exposed are doing WRONG. Further ,their WRONGDOING which was exposed is costing us Allies and resources, because, who wants a bunch of untrustworthy assholes like the Obama Administration, his Congress and Senate and the puppet SCOTUS for friends and allies?
    They'll just turn around and get all the dirt they can, to use out of context to get what they want later. If a friend of mine turned out to be treating me thus; I'm afraid I'd have to beat him so hard he would have an extended hospital stay and permanent damage. Luckily, our "Allies" are above that, but, what of the future with these people now? I don't give a damn if they are spying too, We are responsible for US and have to live with ourselves. If we persist in doing business that requires secrecy, we will never be trusted again. If we can't do business above the table with the current economic strategy, perhaps it is time to evacuate D.C., flush, wipe, and quit putting Repubmocrats in office, in order to proceed as a once again great country with actual FREEDOM instead of this joke, where they tell us we are still free in spite of the Repubmocrats stripping freedom away over the last century.
    I doubt voting will solve the problem, they will just lie and say they won , probably like they have done for a century anyway. Damn, all they do is lie and cheat people out of their rights to make things more convenient to their ambitions. Why choose between two liars? Vote for someone, just not a Repub or a Dem. Its easy!! Even a nut would be preferential to a lying thieving confidence man.

  • Re:In other news. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SuricouRaven (1897204) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:43AM (#45323841)

    The US population have a very simple standard.

    politician.traitor = (politician.party != self.party);

  • A Thank you (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DaMattster (977781) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:45AM (#45323855)
    We have a big thank you to Snowden for making us aware of what is actually going on behind the scenes. As a result, I've taken extra security precautions. I don't really know whether or not they will do any good but suffice it to say that I'm taking it more seriously. And, by the way, the old argument, "If you have nothing to hide, you need not worry" is bullshit. Look at the innocent people that get wrapped up in the Criminal Injustice System.
  • Re:Yeah, right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:46AM (#45323857) Journal
    Why would somebody with the information he had call Congress? The house and senate intelligence committees have been the staunchest in the collective insistence that "Absolutely nothing even slightly wicked happened, simply nothing. And, if it did, we were kept fully apprized of it at all times, and it was For America and 100% legal." Plus, 'called'? that'll throw the NSA off your trail...
  • who's asking them? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kharchenko (303729) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:47AM (#45323861)

    Why exactly do they get to have a say in this? Why are we even listening to them?
    Feinstein and Rogers are the two key figures responsible for most of these violations in the first place. They are the ones who tacitly sanctioned wholesale violation of the constitutional right against unreasonable searches. Yet their opinion on Snowden's guilt is somehow all over the news. It's amazing that the press is quoting Rogers' preaches on how Snowden has broken the law and needs to be persecuted, when both of these bozos voted to grant retroactive immunity for warrantless wiretaps they've sanctioned under earlier administration. As far as I am concerned, asking for their opinion is like asking a robber on what to do with a good Samaritan who stopped the robbery.

  • by c0lo (1497653) on Monday November 04, 2013 @06:56AM (#45323887)

    'He was trusted; he stripped our system...' Snowden could claim exactly that against the NSA.

    From outside US: until the phase above won't naturally come as "We claim exactly that against the NSA" (instead of "Snowden could...") nothing is going to change in this regard.
    You are cheering for Snowden in his "match" against NSA, but not actually supporting him.

  • Snowden & rest: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mister Liberty (769145) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:02AM (#45323921)

    No clemency for Feinstein and Rogers.

  • Re:Yeah, right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by redcaboodle (622288) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:05AM (#45323935)

    And this will stop the USA from conducting another illegal extradition? [wikipedia.org].

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:15AM (#45323975)

    Will you please stop propagating the 'spying on polical leaders' talking point?

    It seems to me as a (conscious?) distraction effort by various media. The real issue is mass surveillance on the general population. Polticial leaders are the most standard targets of all, and that relevation can be shrugged off with all kinds of rhetorics a while from now, when the biggest public outrage has subsided.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Noryungi (70322) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:17AM (#45323987) Homepage Journal

    Or, as the Brits used to say:

    Either they knew, and, therefore, they are not fit to oversee the NSA. Or they did not know, and, therefore, they are not fit to oversee the NSA.

  • by water-and-sewer (612923) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:27AM (#45324019) Homepage

    The cart has run away with the horse. It doesn't matter what they do now, he's a popular hero whose reputation is growing as fast as popular discontent/outrage is growing against the tactics of the NSA and the failures of the administration to stop it or even come clean about who knows what and when.

    This is a huge problem for the government - once the popular hero becomes truly a hero, their every effort to try him or bring him to justice deepens the hole they're in, and god help the US government if Snowden goes to jail - he'll immediately become a demigod.

    They should use this as a wake-up call and change tactics or hopefully even policy. But it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.

    Run, Snowden, run.

  • Re:Yeah, right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Captain_Cozmic (828225) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:31AM (#45324035)
    Most likely Snowden would have disappeared and no one would ever know about this massive criminal operation taking place. And both Feinstein and Rogers act like little children saying "I don't like the way you play. I'm taking my ball and going home." Neither of them should be allowed in Congress for their violation of their oath of office. More appropriate would be serious jail time for their crimes in allowing this to take place.
  • by felrom (2923513) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:35AM (#45324051)

    The majority of Californians sympathize with the Democrat platform.
    The Democrat platform is all about more government control of (almost) everything: healthcare, education, regulation, business... everything.
    When you've been elected to go to Washington and gain control over everything, it shouldn't surprise those who elected you that you run a giant spying apparatus to watch the same citizens who elected you to control them.
    The only thing that should surprise any honest person is that the people who elected Feinstein over and over are angry that she went to Washington and did exactly what they elected her to do: grow the government, give it more power, and let it control everything it touches.

    I'd say she is representing the views of the majority of Californians quite well. They're just suffering mass cognitive dissonance over the fact that they're being forced to reap what they've sown.

  • by boorack (1345877) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:36AM (#45324055)
    In the meantime Feinstein is busy pushing a new bill through Congress. It will not only legitmize NSA spying on everyone but also impose even harsher penalties for anyone who dares speak out. Despite of majority of citizens now being clearly against it (despite of all bullshit and propaganda thrown at them by corporate media). I know it makes many Americans angry but I don't see much difference between civil liberties in US and China right now, the only one being that US regime is far superior in concealing itself behind "freedom and democracy" mirage.
  • by countach (534280) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:37AM (#45324059)

    Yeah, they ought to put up a statue of him in Washington Mall. The only difference between him and the founding fathers is the founding fathers got away with overthrowing the corrupt establishment, and he didn't.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by duckintheface (710137) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:38AM (#45324065)

    That's what I would say too.... if I had a target on my back. If he has disclosed everything, there is no reason to take him out.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zimluura (2543412) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:52AM (#45324113)

    ...eventually they will be the ones asking for clemency.

    I hope you're right, but I really worry that U.S. citizens are no longer up to the challenge of holding a politician's feet to the fire. Maybe it's our news networks colluding with politicians on damage control. Ayway, Nixon spied on another political party and it was somehow a bigger deal than the NSA spying on everyone.

    NSA = Gladys Kravitz

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:54AM (#45324121)

    ' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation. 'But that didn’t happen. He’s done this enormous disservice to our country, and I think the answer is no clemency.'

    Translation: Mr Snowden embarrased me and all my no-a-count friends, so we are going to be a cunt about it.

  • Confusion (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sociocapitalist (2471722) on Monday November 04, 2013 @07:54AM (#45324127)

    It's not mutually exclusive.

    "..as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government."

    'The government' is not the same thing as 'the country'.

    Snowden is..

    ...a righteous whistleblower.

    ...a traitor to the U.S. government.

    ...not a traitor to the US and its people.

  • by knarf (34928) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:06AM (#45324187) Homepage

    " ... pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation."

    ...to either silently disappear and a bit later show up 'dead after a car crash, obsiously drugs were involved, probably had been molesting children and puppies' or be arrested on whatever charges, painted blacker than black by the 'media' and hurried off to a federal labour facility for the next umpteen years.

    Strange. I would have written something like this about, say, Sacharov, before the Wall fell. It did not take all that long for the tables to be turned, did it?

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jd2112 (1535857) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:08AM (#45324193)

    Or to use an Americanism, they're either assholes or morons.

    Those terms are not mutually exclusive.

  • by AHuxley (892839) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:11AM (#45324213) Homepage Journal
    At best he would have got a closed hearing with a tame security cleared lawyer. His CIA past and ability to get a contracting job at the NSA would have become the leaked 'story'.
    That aspect would have been cleared up and then lost in the 24h news cycle. The public would still give weight to sock puppets telling us encryption is safe, lawyers will save us, politicians will save us, the marketplace will save us, data is too big to keep and work on, its illegal... never been any domestic spying, never spy with and on allies...
    Snowden did the right thing allowing developers, lawyers, politicians, the press and historians to finally and fully understand an illegal chapter in US domestic surveillance.
    Law reform can be started, US hardware and software brands reconsidered, local staff will get jobs over 'big' brands. Junk encryption 'pushed' by US gov agencies and tame academics is now exposed as been useless.
    Thanks to Snowden more people in the US have a better understanding of the law, privacy and globally software can be coded to better standards.
  • by BlueStrat (756137) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:11AM (#45324217)

    I know it makes many Americans angry but I don't see much difference between civil liberties in US and China right now, the only one being that US regime is far superior in concealing itself behind "freedom and democracy" mirage.

    Not all that long ago, I would have been one of those angry and would have replied with a scathing rebuttal.

    These days? No anger. Not at you, certainly.

    I think what I feel would more closely track in nature with grief at loss. I don't believe that the US is totally lost. However, I believe it's government has been largely suborned from within.

    As I've written in other posts in the past, the metric is not the particular architecture of any system of government (aka force), ie communism, capitalism, fascism, socialism, left, right, etc etc. It is where, on the scale extending from anarchy to tyranny, that system is, Any form of government can become tyrannical, and history shows this is a general rule, when government becomes too powerful, controls too much of people's lives, and unduly limits individual choices.

    Strat

  • by Lumpy (12016) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:12AM (#45324225) Homepage

    Snowden is a freaking hero just Like Manning. Snowden knew the shitstorm he was going to step into when he did what he did.. And contrary to the liars in the government what he released did not risk anyone or "aid the enemy" unless the American public is by their definition the enemy..

    The fact that they all are trying to play it down and it's working because americans in general are stupid as a box of rocks and are not screaming at the top of their lungs in the streets about this is proof.

    I am pretty disgusted with my fellow citizens and how they happily give up their rights for the sake of fake security...

  • Re:At which point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kazoo the Clown (644526) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:32AM (#45324411)
    No, don't stop voting. Just stop voting for Republicans OR Democrats. Write someone in if that is the only options. At least we could make them pass a law against write-ins, if it turned out write ins got more votes than either of them. At least you send a message. If you don't vote, you can't be differentiated from someone too lazy or too uninformed to vote. I want them to know I'm not too lazy to vote AND that I'm not voting for them.
  • by korbulon (2792438) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:40AM (#45324491)

    I can't think of a case in recent history where the actions of a single individual have had such far-reaching, global consequences. At the very least awarding Snowden the peace prize would be a political black-eye for the Obama administration and would help to cast these lickspittles and apologists and other assorted voices of Sauron as being ethically retarded. It would also go towards repairing the prize's failing reputation, especially in light of the 2009 award.

    I'm going to come out right now and say it: Snowden is a fucking hero. However pure or impure his intentions were, the fact remains that a lot of very powerful people are now having to go into damage control and make excuses and otherwise cover their asses. It remains to be seen whether this will have long-lasting political ramifications. Although, given that the American political system is fundamentally corrupt - the political parties are basically two sides of the same filthy coin - I have my doubts.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:44AM (#45324541)

    Oh please don't put Snowden and that steaming asshat in the same bucket. Snowden did something beneficial to all Americans. Manning did not. Manning did what he did to make a name for himself. He used a shotgun approach, probably got a lot of people killed, ruined our ability to effectively operate in a foreign war, and gave aid and comfort to our enemies. No. Manning deserves to be drawn and quartered. Now Snowden probably could have been a little more diplomatic about what he did, but I do believe that he had the country's best interests at heart.

  • Re:At which point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mevets (322601) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:48AM (#45324559)

    I agree with most of Russelâ(TM)s essay, but not voting is a poor choice of protest. I think that the best way to scare a politician is with huge voter turnout. In the long run, it probably matters less who you vote for than the fact that you vote.
    The ruling class are meek; not voting emboldens them.

  • He Is a Hero (Score:2, Insightful)

    by b4upoo (166390) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:52AM (#45324607)

    Snowden is a hero and needs no clemency. It is one thing for a government to spy upon people but it is quite another to pretend not to spy on the public. If the government had simply announced a need to study the public electronically and with other means as well many of us would care less. But a government based upon lies makes us all wonder if the government is not an enemy.
                      As far as turning information into other government agencies that would be useless. The Warren Commission's laughable look at the JFK assassination ruins the notion of trusted governmental inquiries.

  • Re:Yeah, right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gnasher719 (869701) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:54AM (#45324631)

    The German parliament wants to interview him. The current discussion is wether he can come to Germany to do so. And maybe even stay here. There are rumors there may be a legal loophole to not extradite him to the US if he sets foot on German turf. There is a slim majority for that in the German parliament.

    Whistleblowing on illegal activities of the US government seems to be illegal in the USA. Whistleblowing on illegal activities of the German government may well be illegal in Germany, I don't know. I'm quite sure that whistleblowing on illegal activities of the US government is not illegal in Germany.

    You can only get extradited from Germany for things that are illegal according to German law. So that would be the loophole. If the USA doesn't accept that, then surely they will have to extradite anyone to Germany who has been spying on German politicians.

  • Re:Yeah, right... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ebno-10db (1459097) on Monday November 04, 2013 @08:55AM (#45324649)

    You mean the Germans will do us a favor and save us a bunch of money? That seems like an odd response.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:00AM (#45324691)

    The parent is absolutely correct in the translation...
    The real issue here has to be the realization of who has done the damage and disservice (Feinstein is at the top of the list). Basically her response is that of the bankrobber who is angry and blaiming his friends for turning him in rather than himself for being caught with the cash. This is a crook not wanting to face her crime.
    As to Snowden, no argument can be rationally made that any benefit exists for the USA to continue this snit by Feinstein etc. Every day they leave him in Moscow they damage the USA greatly. The best and finest solution would be to bring Mr Snowden home completely free to do as he proposed and even to build a monument to him on the mall. Honestly those same politicians who built the monument to Dr. Martin Luther King on the mall were in many cases the ones who had opposed every effort to do decent things he asked for. I lived through those times I know! Let us hope that they don't wait until Mr Snowden is dead to build the monument he so richly deserves. He should be treated as a national hero!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:06AM (#45324765)
    THIS! THIS! A thousand times this! I just used my last mod point earlier in this thread, otherwise you'd get one.
    This cognitive dissonance is a huge cause of the problems we are having. People keep voting for the party that stands for increasing government control and authority, and then seem to be upset when that's what they get. A prime example is the myriad of gun restrictions that were forced through in Colorado this year. We voted in all these Democrats and were then surprised when they ramrodded through all these gun restrictions. Democrats always want to take away our guns. It goes hand in hand with expanding government control and authority. We got exactly what we voted for. All the tyrannical behavior at the federal level is the same thing. We got exactly what we voted for.
  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Teancum (67324) <robert_horning@ n e tzero.net> on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:17AM (#45324907) Homepage Journal

    If they don't spy then you might as well close the doors and send them all home.

    For myself, I think that sounds like an excellent thing to have happen to the NSA. They might have served a purpose in the American Republic once upon a time, but at this point they are doing far more harm than good.

    The NSA, together with the TSA, are both agencies that should simply be disbanded completely with nothing to replace them. Neither agency really protects ordinary citizens.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:32AM (#45325085)

    Feinstein is real "Game of Thrones" material. She'll have Snowden's head, impaled at the gates...

    I think it is time for Feinstein and her Intelligence Committee cronies to go. Whatever pork she might be bringing home to her constituents is greatly outweighed by the treasons that she and her buddies are have committed and continue to commit against the principles upon which the USA was founded.

    Don't wait for elections, petition a recall. Surely there must be someone in her state who can defend the nation against becoming everything we've ever scorned. Even a Republican who'll spend all of his time on anti-abortion legislation would be acting in more in the interest of liberal citizens than a Democrat who defends the tools of tyranny.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mrchaotica (681592) * on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:37AM (#45325129)

    Fascist != "true democrat." Fascism is as much a corruption of democratic ideals as it is republican ones.

    (If you're interested in non-fascist liberalism or conservatism, look towards the Green and Libertarian parties, respectively.)

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo (965947) on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:38AM (#45325145) Homepage Journal

    There has to be a reason why the US hasn't sent in special forces to extricate Snowden already.

    Send US special forces into Russia? I don't think so. There might be some pushback from - I don't know, maybe Russia?

    What do you think the US would do if Russian special forces ran an op in Chicago?

  • Re:At which point (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheRaven64 (641858) on Monday November 04, 2013 @09:58AM (#45325387) Journal
    That's why he's telling you to vote for a third party candidate, even if it's a write in. Your candidate almost certainly won't win, but now the winner will have one more vote against them and find it that little bit harder to claim that they have a mandate. It's easy to claim that you represent the people when 25% vote for you, 20% vote for you, and 55% don't bother to vote. It's much harder when 25% vote for you, 20% vote for the other guy, and 10% vote for write ins. Now only 45% of those that bothered to vote voted for you, not 55%.
  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheCarp (96830) <sjc AT carpanet DOT net> on Monday November 04, 2013 @10:01AM (#45325413) Homepage

    > He is wisely using the drip, drip, drip method of disclosure so the press and public have time to
    > digest each successive piece of information

    Not only that, but he gave the people in power time to LIE about it, and then get caught.

    If he gave it out all at once, they could go over it, come up with their response and their lies and nobody would be able to refute them. However, forcing them to make their admissions and coverup lies one at a time put them at a huge disadvantage.

    It was masterful.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Stargoat (658863) <stargoat@gmail.com> on Monday November 04, 2013 @10:30AM (#45325749) Journal

    I'm not sure this is a troll. Disagreeing with a moron is not a reason to mod someone down.

    That being said, the NSA can spy as much as they want on foreign countries. However, the people have the right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. The emails and faxes definitively qualify as papers and effects. The 100% capture of these constitutes an unreasonable search and seizure. The NSA has prima facie been violating the 4th Amendment of the Constitution. Their actions are unconstitutional. It's as simple as that.

    No man can be a traitor for upholding or protecting the Constitution, which is what Snowden did.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by duckintheface (710137) on Monday November 04, 2013 @10:31AM (#45325755)

    I know a (former) CIA agent who did operations inside China and Russia. They didn't catch him so they didn't do anything.

    I've had two responses to my suggestion that Snowden is safer because he claims to have divulged all. One says he was never in danger because the US could not get to him in Russia. The other says he would be killed anyway just to prove a point.

    Of course Snowden is a smart guy. The way to really make himself safe is to hold the most embarrassing information in a safe place with instructions to release it if he is killed. That's what a smart guy would do. And the US agencies know he is a smart guy.

  • Re:At which point (Score:4, Insightful)

    by captain_nifty (132748) on Monday November 04, 2013 @11:02AM (#45326129)

    The most effective write in would be one that unambiguously shows your disdain for the process, this is normally done by voting for a cartoon character, say Micky Mouse or Donald Duck, but I think a more effective method would be to gather a large number of votes for a candidate that sends a very clear message to those in power who continue to violate the law in the execution of policies to increase their power.

    Vote Edward Snowden for all federal elections!

  • Re:clemency? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jythie (914043) on Monday November 04, 2013 @11:32AM (#45326513)
    They spy, but they are also supposed to follow the rules. In theory they are bound by the constitution just like the rest of our government and thus there are limits on what they can and can not do. The outrage is generally over the perception that they were working outside the law or at minimal the law was adjusted in unconstitutional ways to give them power outside what they should have. This was amplified by the revelation that other parts of our government knew what they were doing and not only did they not stop them but are actively protecting the NSA. So if nothing else there is outrage over the idea that a powerful government group was violating the law and or constitution and, unlike ordinary citizens, are not going to be punished for it.

    I agree more outrage should be directed at congress, but it appears only a select 'inside' group within congress actually had knowledge of their actions. Even with that though, even if they had a mandate from congress, the NSA took various actions, and 'but they said I could!' is not an excuse.
  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hoboroadie (1726896) on Monday November 04, 2013 @12:21PM (#45327191)

    I would like to think that we'd understand.

    -Haaah! you make me laugh. (do you post from Fort Mead?) [wikipedia.org] Most sensible folks in the Western Hemisphere seem to concur that Snowden did a great service to The People. Feinstein has been a well-known enemy of freedom for most of my adult life, I guess I'll be adding Rogers to my watch-list.

  • Re:clemency? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) <obsessivemathsfreak@nosPAm.eircom.net> on Monday November 04, 2013 @12:35PM (#45327389) Homepage Journal

    Basically her response is that of the bankrobber who is angry and blaiming his friends for turning him in rather than himself for being caught with the cash.

    The response of the entire administration has been the response of a spoiled, petulant teenager.

    In fact, this has been the response of the administration -- and the previous one -- to just about any development or obstancle they don't like.

    The US is no longer a nation of laws. It is a nation of men (and some women) who are impulsive, incompetent, largely juvenile, disrespectful of their offices, and contemptuous of both the public and the law. The Administration is being run by people with the mentality and motives of a cast of Saturday morning cartoon, or late Thursday night TV villains. Unfortunately these people have one common talent -- they are all connected to each other like threads in a rotten carpet.

    Not a nation of laws. A nation of men. And a particularly base and uninspiring kind of man at that. Central and South American countries have been run by such men for centuries. Run into the ground. The US, for all its power and potential, is now being run into the ground as well.

    The end result is probably something like Singapore. Ostensibly free, but scratch the surface and you quickly hit authoritarianism and an oligarchy of connected families and companies. The problem is, most of the US governing class would see little wrong with such an outcome.

  • Re:At which point (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kharchenko (303729) on Monday November 04, 2013 @01:17PM (#45327929)

    That's because you have a populace that gives a shit.

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