Edward Snowden Files For Political Asylum In Russia 447
vikingpower writes "The official Russian Press agency Interfax has the scoop: Edward Snowden asks for political asylum in Russia (Google Translate). Russia Today, however, denies the news. Is this part of a clever disinformation move by Snowden, who reportedly is still in the Moscow airport Sheremetyevo 2?"
The Washington Post is also reporting Snowden did apply for asylum in Russia. Snowden released a statement last night through Wikileaks, quoting: "For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum."
We have met the enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think I agree with this statement... (Score:4, Insightful)
It has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person.
Not quite. He is still a citizen of the United States and can contact the US Embassy for assistance to leave the country, though it would mean his surrender to the United States. If he publicly made that intent known, officials from the US Embassy in Russia could travel to the airport, use diplomatic powers to pass into where Snowden rests, issue him temporary travel documents to escort him out of the airport and to the embassy, and arrange for travel home.
He's not stateless, but I'm sure he likes to think of himself that way.
Americans will never defend their constitution (Score:5, Insightful)
Americans will never defend their constitution, that has been proven for decades of abuses.
Land of the fat and LAZY.
The dream died years ago, I still have no idea why people still believe it is still a dream country.
NSA is not us (Score:5, Insightful)
NSA is not us. If NSA were us, Clapper wouldn't be lying to Congress.
FISA ruling wouldn't be hidden from us, especially the 2011 one saying its illegal.
This wouldn't have been done in secret and they wouldn't have to lie to us.
Snowden wouldn't have had to leak something that should/needs be public in a democracy anyway.
FTC and other government agencies wouldn't have to remind Corps there are laws in the land.
Google Yahoo etc. wouldn't be fighting secret orders in secret kangaroo courts.
Cheney wouldn't be smirking.
So no, it's them, no us. A fear-mongering faction in the NSA led by General Alexander that simply decided one day to capture all data and store all data, on everyone, and a lot of traitors to their countries who went along with it. /rant
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Snowden has withdrawn that request? (Score:3, Insightful)
This link was corroborated by Democracy Now this morning.
The post is therefore moot, but the mudslinging will continue unabated.
Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (Score:5, Insightful)
It has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person.
Not quite. He is still a citizen of the United States and can contact the US Embassy for assistance to leave the country, though it would mean his surrender to the United States. If he publicly made that intent known, officials from the US Embassy in Russia could travel to the airport, use diplomatic powers to pass into where Snowden rests, issue him temporary travel documents to escort him out of the airport and to the embassy, and arrange for travel home.
He's not stateless, but I'm sure he likes to think of himself that way.
The point of him seeking asylum is that he does not want to surrender to the US authorities, that was the whole point in him fleeing in the first place, but I'm sure you're aware of that. What he should have said to avoid needless pedantry is 'The US government have taken away the one advantage of US citizenship that is of any use to me right now, the ability to travel to somewhere that I won' t be incarcerated and demonised for the rest of my life'.
Re:Getting desperate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Everyone's ire is directed at the US, and it will stay that way regardless of which country, if any, eventually grants him asylum. Ultimately, Snowden's fate is completely irrelevant to the rest of the World, it will only affect the potential whistleblowers who come after him. Setting an example with his case is strictly an internal US affair.
You may not want to admit it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
... but NSA does represent the Americans !!
Whether you like it or not, if you are an American (which I am), NSA is part and parcel of the American government - and whatever NSA is doing (and whatever the Obama administration is doing right now) does represent ALL THE AMERICANS
I mean, look at what is happening in Egypt
The Egyptians who are tired of the non-performing Egyptian presidents are gathering in HUGE CROWD, demanding that muslim-brotherhood figurehead to step down
And about America ... ... do you see anything like that happening ?
Why not ?
What kind of message the Americans are telling the world ? ... that we, the Americans, are SATISFIED with what the Obama administration is doing ... that we, the Americans, agree with what NSA is doing ... that we, the Americans, do not mind our phones be tapped, do not mind that the big brother has invaded our privacy, do not mind at all, that our liberties are being violated
By doing nothing, that's THE MESSAGE the Americans are telling the world ... whether you like it, or not
Re:Getting desperate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Putin is a pragmatist. He no doubt has some very good reasons for wanting him to shut up. If they harbour him, then everyone's ire will be turned on the Russians. Russia wants to be seen as a big, serious player, not as a rogue state.
And Snowden himself doesn't seem to have the brains to not shit in his own nest.
More to the point: Putin is a former intelligence officer. While he certainly is open to obtaining information that would help Russia; he is probably has little respect for people who commit espionage against their country and little trust that they will stay loyal to Russia if he grants asylum. He's a pro, and will do whatever is best for Putin and Russia. At this point, he probably thinks the downside isn't worth it. No matter what our personal opinions are of Snowden's actions; we can probably agree he is really screwed.
Circus and farce (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry guys, I know you want to fight oppression, corporations, evil governments and what else, but level of cheese coming out of Assange and now Snowden is making me puke. Seriously, a stateless person? Passport is *document*, not nationality or citizenship. It is revoked when you have lost formal trust of country it has been issued by (regular procedure for accused runaways). Edward, you already invalidating anything you have said before (except factual leaked docs), because your intent is to speculate emotionally.
What he really thought will happen after his identification as the source? That everybody will jump out of joy when he will ask for political asylum? That he will have capability to travel after identifying himself? What is this with this childish behavior?
Re:A day late, but... (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't revoke passports. Once you arrested someone, the judge may decide to retain the travel documents to avoid that person fleeing justice. But the passport is not revoked, it is confiscated. And that is done once the person is arrested, not while the person is sitting somewhere in the world in a transit area.
Revoking a passport is quite extreme and I have never heard of such action. It is not the usual way to pursue international criminals. Thus it is a different treatment.
Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (Score:1, Insightful)
If you're on the run from people who want to prosecute you for acts you admit you did, that doesn't make you stateless, that makes you a wanted criminal. The only reason you'd call yourself stateless in that situation is if you felt like you had to ratchet up the drama another notch or two.
Calling out this guy on his willingness to redefine words for the purpose of PR is not needless pedantry.
Re:You may not want to admit it ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Snowden has retracted his asylum application (Score:4, Insightful)
on the ground that he does not want to jeopardize the state-to-state relationship between Russia and the USA
I am not sure about that ground. The only fact we know for sure, at the moment, is that he has retracted. The ground is not known, and is being indicated by many sources to be the fact that Putin posed "no more disclosures" as a conditions. Which is not quite the same as what you state, only similar or an indication thereof.
Re:Hypocrite (Score:5, Insightful)
So he supposedly "martyred" himself for freedom, and yet has no qualms about living in countries that are much more oppressive than the US. Hypocrite, pure and simple.
He applied for Asylum in a few countries that are less oppressive than the US too.
But it's not a hypocritical act to sacrifice yourself so that others may have greater freedom.
Re:We have met the enemy (Score:3, Insightful)
Then you have one guy who made public a lot of the details of how the US government is spying on its own citizens, (and I'm glad he did it although I feel sorry for him because he's getting fucked) and he's being punished by the current gov't bringing the full weight of diplomatic pressure to make sure he can't get anywhere, even as they lie through their teeth and claim there's nothing special about his case and no backdoor dealing is being done to get "some hacker."
There is "nothing special" about how they're treating him compared to other international fugitives. If you're on the run from your government, they're going to revoke your passport to make it harder for you to travel. Grow up already. In the real world, that's what governments do when trying to get their hands on fugitives.
The hard thing for me to believe is how stupid he's being. Flee America which has become too oppressive and seek asylum in RUSSIA? He's in Russia and complaining about how intrusive American government can be? It beggars the imagination.
OK, that's not the only thing that's hard to believe. I also have trouble believing the NSA and Booz Allen Hamilton thought a computer security guy in Hawaii needed secret documents about the bugging of embassies and other intelligence operations he had nothing to do with. In short, the utter incompetence of the NSA and its contractors about keeping secrets seems to have gone completely missing.
Re:Getting desperate? (Score:4, Insightful)
Putin is a pragmatist. He no doubt has some very good reasons for wanting him to shut up. If they harbour him, then everyone's ire will be turned on the Russians. Russia wants to be seen as a big, serious player, not as a rogue state.
It's the US that's coming off as a rouge state here. The Russians have come off as reasonable and rational on the whole Snowden thing, and the not giving weapons to fundamentalists in Syria thing.
And Snowden himself doesn't seem to have the brains to not shit in his own nest.
Because you believe it's right that everyone must live in fear of the US government?
Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (Score:4, Insightful)
A conviction at this point would represent trial in absentia and would be meaningless.
Re:Yet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:We have met the enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We have met the enemy (Score:4, Insightful)
If life imprisonment is ultimately Snowden's fate, then it's up to /us/ to make sure his sacrifice is "worth it" by holding the criminals
that his disclosures forced into the light accountable for their crimes. We need to get the politicians, cops, bureaucrats and any others who supported these blatantly un-Constitutional activities out of their positions of power and replaced by people who actually follow the laws and ideals of this country.
Unfortunately, the American people are binary thinkers by nature. En masse, we lack the mental capacity to think other than black and white, and will conclude that if it's proven that Snowden did anything bad, that proves that the government was good.
Re:You may not want to admit it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
So I think the "it is us" statement is true.
Re:Yet (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You may not want to admit it ... (Score:4, Insightful)
America has lost the right to tell other countries to not spy on their citizens
BS. If Hitler admonishes someone for anti semitism, he's still correct because anti semitism is wrong. Hypocracy doesn't remove someone's right to tell the truth.
Re:It Was Obvious Snowden Didn't Write That (Score:2, Insightful)
It is really so sad, he has lost any sympathy for his case by associating with that organization.
Fuck off US shill.
Re:Snowden the Drama Queen (Score:5, Insightful)
Being from Snowden's generation -- I'm the same age -- I have to say that I for one am personally shocked by the entire NSA spying incident and the subsequent witch-hunt of Snowden himself. Not surprised, but still despite myself, shocked.
Despite having grown a warty hide of cynicism over the last decade, despite having watched western society fail again and again over the last 10 years, despite having suspected the truth for many years already, the sheer scale and nakedness of the NSA's programs has pierced right down to the soft kernel of hope for the world instilled in me during the 1990s. The brazen outrage of the NSA and US military, the absurdly exaggerated charges against Snowden, and the relentless and petty retaliation by the US government have cast present reality back into a past which I was raised to believe would never reoccur.
Snowden is a hero. He's a straight up hero. He gave up reward, riches, happiness, and his own future for the sake of his principles and his fellow countrymen. People in the US should build a statue in his honour. Instead, they're howling like fascists for satisfaction.
If Snowden returns to the United States, I don't think he will get a day in open court. I doubt he will see a military tribunal. After everything that has happened, after just how wrong the world has become, it would not surprise me if Snowden was simply disappeared. It would shock me yes, but not surprise me.
Re:We have met the enemy (Score:5, Insightful)
No, he was worried because the semi-autonomous island Hong Kong has an extradition policy with the US. Russia was meant to be an intermediary location to get to South America, probably through Cuba because you can get a direct flight. There are few direct flights to South America from Asia and most of those go to US friendly countries.
Incidentally, he probably was safe in Hong Kong due to the US's blunder of charging him with espionage (thus making it a political crime). If they'd simply charged him with theft, got him extradited, and then dumped death penalty espionage charges he'd be at the end of a noose already, right where Obama and co want him so they can keep their super secret illegal spy ring going. If you don't think this is all about keeping the NSA spying going and sweeping Snowden's body under the rug, remember that Cheney and Armitage did the exact same thing exposing Plume and there certainly weren't any espionage charges filed for that.
Re:Getting desperate? (Score:5, Insightful)
To deem him not a whistleblower seems like a rather harsh interpretation of the term. He is exposing, what he believes to be, unlawful practises, that seems to me to be exactly what a whistleblower does.
Many on /. seem to be overlooking that the ball is still rolling on this, the US government is not just collecting data on american citizens, but actively carrying out espionage missions against allies. Nobody around here (Europe) gives two flying fucks about Snowden or his fate, nor the laws NSA allegedly follows. The media here is much more concerned with the bugging of EU offices. The pictures most prominent on TVs across Europe is Obama trying to explain that little turd, all the while coming off as a complete idiot trying to explain 1+1 to a 4 year old, it really is not very pretty. And in case you havn't been paying attention the last couple of decades, what the media cares about, John Doe general public cares about.
The statement, that the ire of the world would turn to Russia if they granted Asylum to Snowden, smells very much like a "everybody probably thinks like me" fallacy, it's a projection based on the assumption that the rest of the world are americans.
Re:We have met the enemy (Score:2, Insightful)
The hard thing for me to believe is how stupid he's being. Flee America which has become too oppressive and seek asylum in RUSSIA? He's in Russia and complaining about how intrusive American government can be? It beggars the imagination.
My jaw just hit the floor. How could you possibly believe that Snowden is fleeing in order to live in a society that is freer than where he came from? He is fleeing in order to evade retribution from the US government - in that respect, the only thing that matters is whether the country in question can stand up to US pressure and Russia seems like a perfectly reasonable candidate for that. His original actions were to make the world a freer place for everyone else, not himself. He's not saying that Russia is freer than the US, he's saying that the US wants to hurt him and Russia might be a useful shield. He was fighting for your freedoms, not his own.
Re:We have met the enemy (Score:2, Insightful)
One thing to keep in mind though is that it is a violation of the extradition treaty to charge someone with charges other then those filed in the extradition request. You can't extradite someone for shoplifting then charge them with murder one unless they committed the murder after being extradited.