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U.S. Election Day In Progress: What's Been Your Experience? 821

Posted by timothy
from the meet-the-new-boss dept.
Today is Election Day in the U.S., and polls are open even in Hawaii now. The current Slashdot poll gives a snapshot of how many readers have voted or plan to vote; more rigorous and wide-based polls are easy to find. If you're taking part in today's election, what have you found? Did you or will you vote electronically, or on paper? How long did you wait to vote? Did you vote weeks ago by mail? How much time did you put into making your choices? It would be helpful if in comments you start the subject of your post with your 2-letter state abbreviation, like this: "TX - About to go get in line to push some buttons."
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U.S. Election Day In Progress: What's Been Your Experience?

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  • by wawannem (591061) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:43PM (#41896621) Homepage
    Voted first thing this morning... Based on the number of commercials running in Ohio, and the tight margin between the candidates, I've been watching the news online expecting to see some controversy start brewing. Fortunately, I've been disappointed thusfar.
    • by ackthpt (218170)

      Voted first thing this morning... Based on the number of commercials running in Ohio, and the tight margin between the candidates, I've been watching the news online expecting to see some controversy start brewing. Fortunately, I've been disappointed thusfar.

      For living in a battleground swing state you have my deepest sympathy. It can't have been easy and you probably will feel like punching one candidate or the other (or both) in the face given the chance. Meanwhile, the utter filth and scum who are behind so much advertising have made their fat to live off of until the next presidential election cycle, which starts in about 14 hours.

      • NV - Glad it's OVER! (Score:4, Interesting)

        by yurtinus (1590157) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:24PM (#41897505)
        My god, commercial breaks were so overwhelmingly political and retardedly negative. During Jeapordy the other day, every commercial except one was an actress supporting Romney (gee, wonder who they're pandering to...). The one exception was for the senate race - a race I deliberately avoided both main candidates specifically because they are both putting out so many negative campaign ads. Poor characters all around.

        God I hate elections. The one bright side is the place I voted early at had no line and friendly staff!
    • by Antipater (2053064) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:29PM (#41897607)
      Voting went fine, but they ran out of "I voted!" stickers! How could this happen?? How else can I vent my smug satisfaction at having exercised my same-freedom-everyone-else-also-has?
      • Voting went fine, but they ran out of "I voted!" stickers! How could this happen?? How else can I vent my smug satisfaction at having exercised my same-freedom-everyone-else-also-has?

        Maybe next time you'll vote early and get one of the plentiful "I Voted Early" stickers (with 200% more smugness).

        TX - Austin

      • It's important to keep this in perspective. On my way to voting I heard something on the radio that sums it up best:

        Everybody have fun tonight, everybody Wang Chung tonight.

  • by Cito (1725214) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:44PM (#41896641) Homepage

    My drivers license expired in 2005, and I never bothered getting it renewed. So I don't have a "valid ID" even though I'm on disability.

    I was turned away not allowed to vote for not having a valid id :)

    I said oh well, not like voting matters anyhow due to electoral college bullshit and went home

    • Really? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:49PM (#41896759)

      http://www.sos.georgia.gov/gaphotoid/default.htm [georgia.gov]

      A Georgia Driver's License, even if expired

    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:50PM (#41896793)

      "I said oh well, not like voting matters anyhow due to electoral college bullshit and went home"

      I'm so glad you didn't vote. Uneducated people shouldn't vote.

      • by Nyder (754090) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:01PM (#41897011) Journal

        "I said oh well, not like voting matters anyhow due to electoral college bullshit and went home"

        I'm so glad you didn't vote. Uneducated people shouldn't vote.

        How is that any different then educated people not voting?

    • Missouri requires ID, but the types of ID they take are legion. Driver's license (even expired), water, electric, or phone bills (with your name and address), state-issued non-driver ID, CCW ID, property tax receipt. We don't require a photo ID, just some kind of ID, mostly to prove you're voting in the right place. It's pretty fair as far as I know, a good balance between preventing voter fraud and turning people away unjustly.

      State-issued non-drivers photo ID's here are like $8 by the way. Probably ab

    • I don't have a "valid ID" even though I'm on disability.

      Receives disability benefits but carries no valid photo ID?

      No Georgia EBT card?

      Required for "Food Stamps" and other services.

      No Veterans Identification Card? [va.gov]

      What IDs are acceptable?

      Any valid state or federal government issued photo ID, including a FREE Voter ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)

      A Georgia Driver's License, even if expired

      Valid employee photo ID from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state.

      Valid U.S. passport ID

      Valid U.S. military photo ID

      Valid tribal photo ID

      Georgia Voter Identification Requirements [georgia.gov]

      • by Cito (1725214)

        They have teenagers running the voting areas, highschool volunteers from the local highschool and they are idiots.

        I called WCTV channel 6 news out of Tallahassee and they also have got reports and are sending a news van out. I've done a phone in interview about a 30 sec clip and called some 1800 number i was given.

        there is going to be absentee ballot sent out but the votes wont count for today's main count but will be tallied later as part of the absentee ballots that come in late along with overseas citize

  • NA;DV (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:44PM (#41896647)

    "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

    "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

    "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

    "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

    "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

    "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in.

    • by Zephyn (415698)

      Congratulations. You've found the convergence point of the works of Douglas Adams and David Icke.

  • VA disenfranchised (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:45PM (#41896665)

    VA - Filed registration 45 days ago, didn't take effect, told yesterday by three election offices to vote where I was previously registered, two hours of driving, turned away, told to file provisional ballot where I live, provisional ballot where I live must be defended.

    Apparently these guys made their money and did their job:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/virginia-voter-fraud-case-expands-to-focus-on-gop-firm/2012/11/02/76285252-24eb-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_story.html

    I've read about this happening to other people but can't believe it happened to me. Understand what voter ID laws are. They are voter fraud laws - they create voter fraud. Can't believe it happened to me.

    • by gman003 (1693318) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:55PM (#41896891)

      Happened to me as well. I moved a few months ago, went to the DMV to renew my license with the new address and register to vote.

      Never got my new drivers license. Never got a registration card. I checked today, I was never officially registered. I'll be checking my debit card records to see if they took the money for it - if not, I will be contacting a lawyer.

      I will also be filing a complaint at http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/Complaints.html [virginia.gov]. Might not do much good, but I'll do it anyways.

      (Not that my vote would've mattered much - I was going to vote Libertarian)

      • by jittles (1613415)
        When I left California in 2008, I registered absentee for the Nov 2008 election. I never got my ballot in the mail. I contacted my county election officials and they told me it had been mailed and they even had the correct address. I don't know what happened to that ballot, but I never got to vote that year and I was pissed. For all I know they had someone vote for me. But then again, it could have been lost in the USPS too (though I think that is rare these days).
    • You are not the one creating the fraud. The fraud is being thrown at you.
    • by eldavojohn (898314) * <eldavojohn.gmail@com> on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:03PM (#41897073) Journal

      VA - Filed registration 45 days ago, didn't take effect, told yesterday by three election offices to vote where I was previously registered, two hours of driving, turned away, told to file provisional ballot where I live, provisional ballot where I live must be defended.

      Apparently these guys made their money and did their job: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/virginia-voter-fraud-case-expands-to-focus-on-gop-firm/2012/11/02/76285252-24eb-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_story.html [washingtonpost.com]

      I've read about this happening to other people but can't believe it happened to me. Understand what voter ID laws are. They are voter fraud laws - they create voter fraud. Can't believe it happened to me.

      In Northern VA myself. Voted thrice in Minnesota and many times in Virginia. Have to say that Virginia requirements are ridiculous for voting and are almost designed to stop people who don't have their shit together from voting. In 2000 on the U of MN campus I was walking around campus on election day and outside they had a big thing setup for me to vote. I had my student ID and driver's license and that was all they needed to register me, take my vote and give me a voter registration ID! They asked if I had a utility bill and I told them I was living in a dorm room on campus. No further questions needed, just had to fill out a form.

      I arrive in September of 2004 in Virginia ... totally different story. After producing my birth certificate and about five other forms of documentation at a Virginia DMV, I get my VA license. A month later I check out what I have to do to vote. Guess what? You have to register 22 days before the election SO I was basically shit outta luck. Good thing I was able to absentee ballot for Minnesota (having recently moved).

      Seriously, I check five or six times each election year that my stuff isn't messed up on the VA voter website [virginia.gov] because if that stuff isn't accurate down to a T you aren't voting. One of my friends moved across town, showed up to his old precinct with his last residence on his voter ID card and his new residence on his driver's license. Aaaaaaand they wouldn't let him vote. The real kick in the pants was they told him that if he hadn't shown them his driver's license and he could have recited his old address, they would have let him through.

      So my experience today? Showed up at 5:45 am today. Waited until 7:15 am in line to vote. Voted on paper (line was much shorter than the electronic line) and was out. I only saw one advertisement on my way to vote: a portly fellow came in through the doors and removed his jacket to reveal a Romney/Ryan shirt upon the vast real estate of his chest. As he walked by he looked large and in charge. It should be noted he was only the former.

      Can someone tell me why voter registration can't happen at the polls?

  • But fuck: I'll take another four years of Obama then...
  • Voted by mail (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ackthpt (218170) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:45PM (#41896675) Homepage Journal

    For me the kicking and screaming and foaming was all over a coupla weeks ago.

    The best of it: Gave me time in the privacy of my own home to leisurely read through the pro and con positions on things, choose local officials, flip coin, etc.

    The worst of it: Didn't stop the junk mail or advertising. :P

  • by alen (225700) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:45PM (#41896681)

    i used the provisional ballot at a polling place by my house, then by my kid's day care and at work during lunch

    just to make sure at least one will be counted

  • No line when I went in, very small line forming as I left (less than dozen people) No issues went smoothly.
    • by ackthpt (218170)

      No line when I went in, very small line forming as I left (less than dozen people)
      No issues, went smoothly.

      FTFY

      No exit pollers lurking about? I used to tell them I voted for myself.

  • by PaisteUser (810863) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:47PM (#41896715)

    Everything was orderly and calm at the polling place in our hometown. I was in and out of the polling place in 10 minutes.

    I'm curious to know how many places are using computerized voting machines in the country? MN still uses Scantron machines; it's hard to screw up, and cheap to operate.

  • by hackula (2596247) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:47PM (#41896725)
    Annoyingly long line this morning but no big deal. It's only once every 4 years. Strangely noticed 5 to 1 male turn out, in a largely suburban precinct. Don't know what to make of that yet.
  • I forgot to update my polling place when I built a home. So, I got to fill out the sweet provisional ballot.
    • by Loughla (2531696)
      Oh, and it was a really short wait with friendly people. And the lead polling judge even baked cookies for today. God bless small town America.
  • Somewhere in San Joaqin Valley. Started right after the polls opened (0700 PST), there was practically no wait...though I imagine it's going to get much busier after business hours. Decent age cross-section, too.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Washington state is all vote-by-mail. Works great -- can set aside a few hours to research the issues and make well informed decisions instead of "guessing" based on memory recollection.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:51PM (#41896807)

    My postfix server has been voting all day in NJ.

  • OH - voted in person (Score:4, Informative)

    by tylikcat (1578365) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:52PM (#41896829)

    Headed out latish in the morning to avoid the lines - things were busy, but not insane. No problems with my somewhat complicated ID. My helpful online guide had not given me all of the right judgeships on the ballot, so I ended up leaving a few blank having no clue as to who these people were. (It could be worse - my labmate had a similar experience, but in his case it cost him a chance to vote against the person who thinks that jihadists are trying to infiltrate textbooks with sharia law.)

    And I forgot about the excellent http://www.judge4yourself.com/ [judge4yourself.com] website, which could have helped considerably on my judgeships problems. No, really, if you're in Ohio, check it out.

    Generally painless. I do miss being able to sign up for absentee ballots and stay signed up, rather than having to re-do it every time.

  • by RocketScientist (15198) * on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:55PM (#41896887)

    Got there 10 minutes after they opened (6:10am) and was out before 7. Lines were long but moving quickly. Efficient process and good poll workers, who don't get nearly enough credit for what they do. Scantron-style voting machine (paper ballots ftw). The stuff I expected on the ballot (President, senate, congress, governor and associated state executive, state representative, and a ballot measure) along with a couple other ballot measures I wasn't familiar with but I read through and voted on.

  • I had to color in lines, stuff my ballot into multiple envelops, then drive it to a ballot drop box. Thanks, WA, that is much better than walking to the polling place that used to be a block away.
  • WI: voted. (Score:5, Informative)

    by John Hasler (414242) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @02:57PM (#41896931) Homepage

    > what have you found?

    The usual: three elderly ladies at a table in the town hall, our 100 year old ballot box, a voting both, and an electronic voting machine (a new one: the manufacturer of the $6000 original went out of business and the machine could not be used without their support).

    > Did you or will you vote electronically, or on paper?

    Paper, of course. I could have voted "electronically" but I'm not that stupid.

    > How long did you wait to vote?

    Wait? I suppose if we had delayed until after supper we would have had ten minutes or so to chat with the neighbors.

    > Did you vote weeks ago by mail?

    I don't approve of that other than for extraordinary circumstances where a voter cannot possibly get to the polling place.

    > How much time did you put into making your choices?

    I made my decision long ago.

    • Re:WI: voted. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland.yahoo@com> on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:30PM (#41897623) Homepage Journal

      "I don't approve of that other than for extraordinary circumstances where a voter cannot possibly get to the polling place."
      becasue..why? you don't want more people to vote?

      "I made my decision long ago."
      I'm sure you did.

      • Re:WI: voted. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by John Hasler (414242) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @04:52PM (#41899021) Homepage

        I wrote:"I don't approve of that other than for extraordinary circumstances where a voter cannot possibly get to the polling place."

        > becasue..why?

        Too many opportunities for fraud. It muddies the transparency of the process.

        > you don't want more people to vote?

        As an end in itself? No. Elections should be on Sundays, precincts should be small, and any precinct where wait time exceeds about ten minutes at any time during the day should be split. People whose only reason for voting by mail is that they can't be arsed to go to a polling place are not likely to be well enough informed to do anything but introduce noise. The parties want unthinking knee-jerk votes. I don't.

  • Went in about 11am, showed my ID, signed my name, was given a paper ballot, marked my choices then fed it into the scanner. Took all of about 5 minutes total from entering the building to walking out with my receipt.

  • Having the knowledge that I could probably personally hack electronic voting machines if I studied them a while kind of freaks me out.

    Today everybody presented ID (first time in my experience this was required), and nobody seemed to have a problem. Very friendly, trust-engendering atmosphere. I love living in a rural area.
  • Early voting ftw. There was a line at the time, but not a bad one. Afterward I went across the street and had a beer.
  • There were two paths to the front entrance of my polling place: One involved going through the gauntlet of electioneers, the other right through the door. (Guess which one I chose.)

    Once inside, there were all of two people in line in front of me in the voter look-up line. While most of the voting booths were taken (crazy-long ballot today... lots of judicial and minor statewide positions up for election) there was no wait for one.

    Electronically scanned paper ballot; that's the format that makes the most s

  • by levork (160540) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:00PM (#41896995) Homepage

    No one in line ahead of me. Filled out paper ballot, fed ballot into Sequoia machine. My ballot was three pages, double sided - over ten propositions to vote on in California! Spent more than a hour doing research on them last night.

    Oh yeah, this is my first election! Newish American citizen - proud to exercise my right to vote :)

    • Oh yeah, this is my first election! Newish American citizen - proud to exercise my right to vote

      Congrats and thanks for taking the time to both research and vote :)

  • Why I do not vote (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vlm (69642) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:02PM (#41897041)

    Why I Do Not Vote by Michael S. Rozeff

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff224.html [lewrockwell.com]

    I'm voting for Johnson, and I live in a very close swing state, and I truly hope the balance hangs on less votes than the 3rd parties get, but I like Rozeff's article anyway.

    Two choice quotes by Mr Rozeff:

    "I don't believe in representative government under our Constitution. The Constitution has no legitimate authority over me. I have never signed off on it."

    "I do not wish to endorse a system that has produced and continues to produce what I think are pragmatically bad results."

    I particularly like the first quote. Kind of mind expanding. The D and R parties want to use the constitution as toilet paper, other than the R have been beating the drum for almost 5 years that Obama is a Kenyan, and that little clause about prez being native born is sacred, but the rest of the constitution and BoR is just used Charmin so don't worry about it. Yet in the long run, what do I care for or against the constitution, Like Rozeff writes, I never signed the damn thing anyway and if I wrote it, it would look a bit different. So as a thought experiment, say he came from Kenya, what do I care, the cleaning lady at work is an illegal el salvadorian and no one cares much and its not my rule, nor do I much care about that particular rule.

    There's been a couple other good articles along these lines on zerohedge recently, but I didn't save the links. Oh well.

  • polls opened at 7, it took me an hour in line before I could vote.

    There were some shenanigans with an elderly black guy in front of me not being on the register.

    Filled out both ballots (Florida has 11 constitutional amendments and a there were a dozen votes of confidence for local judgeship's.

    There was an electronic voting machine that no one used, cast a paper ballot on election day. Its more likely to get counted that way.

  • Voted a week ago. Simple fill in the oval paper ballot.
  • Columbus, OH Voter (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SirLurksAlot (1169039) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:05PM (#41897121)

    I was in and out in about 20 minutes, so my experience was fairly quick. There was a Somali lady in front of me who might have had a more interesting time of it however. I made some small talk with her, and she told me it was her first time voting, as she had just married her husband, an American. I asked her if this was the "F - K" line and she nervously told me that yes it was, but kept repeating "This is the line, be careful, be careful!" as though they wouldn't let me vote if I accidentally got in the wrong line. She was both proud and afraid of the whole process. The interesting bit of this is that when her time came there was some activity, and I made out that she couldn't read the ballot, and wanted to know if her husband (who was also in line) could read it for her. I didn't hear the rest though, as it was quickly my turn at the polling station.

    I haven't had a chance to look up the pertinent law regarding whether someone else is allowed to read the ballot or not, but I would imagine this same scenario has played out many times over (This isn't an argument for or against ballots in multiple languages, just an account of a polling incident).

  • by mdarksbane (587589) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:10PM (#41897227)

    Went around lunch time. No one in front of us in line. Talked to our neighbors who were volunteering about new babies and hunting while my wife voted. We would have been in and out in five minutes if we didn't feel like socializing.

    I love voting in this district. It always just seems like a nice way to be social and get to know the community. Really too bad they don't put in enough polling stations in urban areas to get that same feeling. Feels like there ought to be a couple machines in every subdivision or big apartment building.

  • MD - Gary Johnson (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bluefoxlucid (723572) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:11PM (#41897237) Journal

    It's hopless here, but I'm voting for Gary Johnson anyway. I just want to see a black mark on the paper, a margin that says "OBAMA WINS!!" with barely over a third of the nation behind him. Maybe one day we'll see stats that make people think: maybe these two assholes aren't our only option. Maybe one day we'll stop worshipping the constitution, burn it, and become 50 separate countries with our own currency and economic robustness, and let Europe take over the one-big-currency-one-big-problem market. Maybe we'll burn it and rewrite it with a parliament so if 10% of us vote for Libertarians or Greens or Nazis then we have to fill in 10% of the Senate and House with Libertarians or Greens or Nazis. Maybe we can get a pluralist presidency where if you don't have 50% we eliminate all until the combined votes bring the lowest to above the second place, and then try again until it's 1 on 1.

    Our constitution dictates a system of government which creates a system by which we believe we only have two options (look how old the Republicans and Democrats are). The only way is to rewrite it. Then the people can chose.

  • by dejaffa (12279) <dbrowne@@@sewingcentral...com> on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:13PM (#41897267)

    OH suburbs - waited 45 minutes early this morning to vote on a hybrid machine (electronic UI, writes on a paper tape that I could see).

  • Voted a week ago (Score:4, Insightful)

    by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland.yahoo@com> on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:19PM (#41897397) Homepage Journal

    using Oregon's mail in ballots.
    Every state should do it this way.

    Research everyone I could. Even looked through church rooster to see if any people running for board comes up from a church known for shoving their stupid into the government

    As someone who has studied corporate history, and economic history, the presidential vote as easy. Obama.

  • by Convector (897502) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:25PM (#41897531)

    I voted on 28 Oct before Sandy came through. It was cold and blustery and took over three hours. I think this is the first Presidential election MD has had early voting for, and massively underestimated the turnout. The line wrapped around the parking lot. Folks were generally very nice about waving incomers to available parking spaces and holding places in line for people to run in to use the facilities, pop over to the 7-11 to get coffee, or retrieve additional outerwear from their vehicles.

    I was at one of five early voting stations in Anne Arundel County, and they had a total of ten voting machines available for it. Judging by the rate at which people left (about one per minute), I estimate that it took an average of ten minutes to cast a ballot. There were a lot of ballot questions and such on there, but I got the impression that many voters hadn't bothered to read them before showing up. Why stand in line to vote if you haven't made up your mind yet? Poll workers were constantly walking down the line offering sample ballots for people to read and never got any takers.

  • by cps42 (102752) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @03:25PM (#41897537) Homepage
    Voted last week by mail. Now want to create an app that disables all television, radio, political advertising and replaces it with soothing music and pictures of puppies and kittens as soon as King County has acknowledged receiving my vote.
  • by Mr. Shotgun (832121) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @04:01PM (#41898197)

    Went and registered and voted in about 20 minutes. New to the area so had to bring a utility bill. Actually wasn't really concerned about the presidential elections as voting against a stupid amendment [ballotpedia.org] that was on the ballot. Minnesota is most likely going Obama but the votes on that amendment are too close to ignore. I have friends and family that are homosexual and I damn sure am not gonna sit on the couch while people try to take their rights away. Granted the stupid law already does that (and I voted against those jerks too) but I do not want it made that much more difficult to get it repealed by making it an amendment.

  • by TigerPlish (174064) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @04:08PM (#41898319)

    Dice has been rolled, waiting to see result.

  • WI (Score:4, Interesting)

    by gabrieltss (64078) on Tuesday November 06, 2012 @11:24PM (#41903023)

    Voted about 7pm. I didn't vote for ANY democrats of republicans. Voted for libertarians if available. If only democrat and/or republican as choices I used the "write in" and put in things like "Bozo the clown" "Mr. Ed" etc.. No I didn't wast my vote - I'm one of the 46%!.

    46 percent of Americans want a third party
    http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/12/poll-46-percent-of-americans-want-a-third-party/ [dailycaller.com]

IF I HAD A MINE SHAFT, I don't think I would just abandon it. There's got to be a better way. -- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988.

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