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The Long Reach of US Extradition 242

Posted by timothy
from the blue-passports-money-and-guns dept.
CuteSteveJobs writes "The New Matilda reports how the U.S. is now able to extradite people for minor offences, and asks why foreign governments so willingly give up their nationals to the U.S. to 'face justice' over minor crimes committed outside U.S. borders? Lawyer Kellie Tranter writes, 'the long arm of the Government is using criminal enforcement powers to enforce commercial interests at the behest of corporations and their lobbyists.' A former NSW Chief Judge said it was bizarre 'that people are being extradited to the U.S. to face criminal charges when they have never been to the U.S. and the alleged act occurred wholly outside the U.S.' He said although copyright violations are a great problem, a country 'must protect its nationals from being removed from their homeland to a foreign country merely because the commercial interests of that foreign country.' Australia recently 'streamlined' its laws to make extradition to the U.S. even easier."
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The Long Reach of US Extradition

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  • Pleb? Who cares? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by whoever57 (658626) on Saturday October 20, 2012 @12:24AM (#41712765) Journal

    What do the elites care if a few plebs get sent abroad?

    Mods: Before you mod me down, google "plebgate" or "pleb uk"

  • Re:Bribery (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 20, 2012 @01:05AM (#41712877)

    Several US Congressmen have said off record that they were threatened that if they voted against the PATRIOT act, bad things would happen to them personally.

    Several US Congressmen have also said that martial law was threatened if they voted against the bank bailouts.

    There is a hidden world government and the US is their enforcer.

    100 years ago, the UK was their enforcer and look where it got them.

  • This is, (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Truekaiser (724672) on Saturday October 20, 2012 @01:18AM (#41712911)

    One of the main reasons why the united states is not well liked by a lot of countries.
    Think for a moment, imagine say, China, Russia, or say Norway, bullied its way into other countries in such a way that non-citizens of these countries could be 'deported' to them to face punishment. Punishment for laws they did not know about, or are not against the law in their own countries but against the law there.

  • uber lords (Score:5, Interesting)

    by harvey the nerd (582806) on Saturday October 20, 2012 @01:23AM (#41712929)
    Those who have already lived in US sponsored dictatorships may better realize that the US government is already far more dangerous than the Nazis in terms of surveillance capability and raw power. So far, too few US citizens seem to recognize that millions of people suffered, or died, in a blatantly illegal, ruinously expensive war with Iraq that appears to be preparatory for domestic use. At least realize enough to stop it, permanently.
  • by cats-paw (34890) on Saturday October 20, 2012 @01:54AM (#41713007) Homepage

    send them to the US so the US can pay to imprison them. So you've gotten rid of a "troublemaker" and you don't have to pay to deal with them.

  • Re:uber lords (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Genda (560240) <mariet.got@net> on Saturday October 20, 2012 @01:55AM (#41713011) Journal

    Oh no, There are a huge number of American's who are perfectly clear what's going on, and we have no illusions to what our nation has evolved into over the last 30 years, though as you suggest a vast mouth breathing, knuckle dragging majority has voted for its own slow motion suicide. As Mussolini said, fascism is the corporate state, and we are now all becoming pawns in a global power grab by monied interests. Strangely, we fought WWII to stop the tyranny of fascism, while at the very same monied interests here invested in the Nazi's and laundered their money in the U.S., England and Switzerland. The bankers and CEOs are the threat to liberty, justice and the advancement of the human condition. Perhaps it is time for a new fight for the dignity of the human spirit.

  • Fuck Americans (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 20, 2012 @02:15AM (#41713075)

    Fuck Americans

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 20, 2012 @02:36AM (#41713131)

    ...but I'll bite.

    You can have either three* economies, in today's world, and still have a country:
    Bronze/aluminum age -- agrarian
    Iron age -- manufacturing
    Silicon age -- information tech and design

    The highest standards of living are in IT economies. Ask yourself this: do you want to live in bronze age India? Of course not. You'd rather live in iron age Brazil, or, even better, siicon age Boston. Most world leaders understand this, and that is why they are cool with draconian copyright laws. And in fact, if you protect innovation abroad, you in theory protect innovation at home, as well, and create the possibility of a local market. Most 2nd world countries WANT to become like America. They WANT an innovative and productive economy -- and that is why they support strong IP laws -- to hopefully boost their own economy into a knowledge-based economy, and out of 2nd or 3rd world stagnation.

    The sad thing is though, innovation doesn't just come from a good marketplace. It comes from an intelligent, inspired, hopeful, dreaming, confident and curious populace, with time and ways to experiment. Innovation is no longer happening in America because we are not confident anymore. We are dumbed down, crushed and we have no more dreams. College was our only formal gateway to a better life, but that has suffered the fate of most monopolies and destroyed the market by overgouging consumers. Increased corporatism and restrictive patent laws have hurt individual inventors and made college a requirement for any white collar job, due to the fact that only big companies with many lawyers on retainer can survive amidst these insane IP laws. Those few big companies are flooded with applicants, and only distinguish between candidates by education level (read, debt/wealth background). In addition to a dumbing down college tax** and a noncompetitive marketplace (which rewards suing your competitor instead of inventing/refining a product), we also have the dilemma that there are fewer and fewer hobbyists being creative with stuff. Increasingly, everything is locked down, and single use. Even our water bottles are stamped "do not reuse." Not to mention the TV instant gratification culture which discourages critical intellectual activity, like reading a book instead of buying things from commercials.

    So, no, wannabe 1st world countries, please do not copy us. We are not a knowledge economy, we are a consumer economy. We no longer create much, anymore. Yes, protecting IP is a good idea. But like anything else, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. We need sane copyright and patent laws, not an elimination of them all together.
    (And we also need local manufacturing, and less corporate litigation -- and less big business domination, period.)

    *I'm not including stone age hunter-gather societies, because a) they got their butts kicked by everyone else, and lost almost all their sovereignty, and b) no one really wants to go back to the stone age, and there isn't enough spare flora and fauna to support that move, anyway.

    ** College has basically become a tax which everyone who wants to get ahead pays. And frankly, it is so insanely bad, that it's aproaching indentured servitude. Many first world people are actually advocating returning to a bronze age civilization, because the american college-industrial complex is so crushingly destructive, restrictive, and empoverishing.

  • Re:uber lords (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mdragan (1166333) on Saturday October 20, 2012 @03:34AM (#41713271)
    Maybe it's time for capitalism and the free market thinkers to acknowledge the fact that corporations have as much power to destroy the balance of the free market, as the governments. A corporation is a quasi monopoly.
    Or we could start by saying that temporary monopolies like copyright and patents were never meant to enter the hands of powerful entities, such as corporations. The potential for abuse is too great. The copyright or patent should end as soon as the artist or inventor has been payed by selling his invention to a corporation. The corporations should pay for the right to publish the work or use the invention, not for a tool with which to kill competition.
  • Re:This is, (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 20, 2012 @03:54AM (#41713317)

    Friend, the Americans aren't too happy with America right now. What they're (American Corporations) doing to your country they're doing vigorously all over America, and they're a damn site closer here, so if its chafing you, its frigging killing us.

    This strikes me as a powerful indication of the state of the world. The Nation state is in decline. The multi national corporation is calling the tune, and the laws are now being adjusted to ensure that any infraction against the all mighty corporation anywhere on the planet is dealt with swiftly and with overwhelming force. The new terrorist is anyone who isn't consuming his proper allotment and paying his bills. Now might be a good time to take our world back.

    Cut the crap, its American who are employed in the corporations and manage them. Its people like you who are doing it. Cut the we are also victims BS.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 20, 2012 @07:27AM (#41713993)

    Copyright infringement is being prosecuted in the country where the server is... Extradition
    Alleged spying is prosecuted where the hacked (cracked) machine/network was (Gary McKinnon, etc.)... Extradition
    University must be accredited in a state (Free Online Education Unwelcome In Minnesota)... Being on an out-of-state server does not matter
    Parallel Imports not allowed (must buy songs for .99 Euro and not overseas for .99 $)... Not allowed to use a global market

    Somehow everything is turned in a way that does not benefit the common people. We should finally once and for all declare a world-wide decree that either you are on foreign soil when you use a specific server or that you are on home turf and the location of the keyboard counts. Then it would be clear what laws apply. The current situation is a complete mess.

  • by flyneye (84093) on Saturday October 20, 2012 @07:42AM (#41714039) Homepage

    I was just thinking " Good God! Elect me! I'll fix that crap and so much else to take us back to several states under the Constitution.
    We will start by gutting the Uniform Commercial Code and eliminating anything not Constitutional and patching it with patriotic goodness as we go.
    We will cut the NEED for so much defense spending by pulling troops back from all over the world and concentrate on defending our borders as prescribed Constitutionally. No more world cop for corporate interests.
    We will eliminate the income tax and tariff imports as prescribed. Let the trade wars begin,you can keep your cheap plastic crap,Walmart is killing the little businesses anyway. Any U.S. corporation OUTSIDE the borders will pay EXTRA tax, since it can afford it. We need to make up for losses from outsourcing.
    I'll send the Chinese a few dollars a month and send them any living criminals who made illegal deals and treaties during the Repubmocrat regime.
    When the Repubmocrat congress and senate rebel or try to lame duck the Presidency, I will pull the C.I.A. files on their activities behind the scenes and the "treason purges" will begin. A fair trial and a decent hanging, televised from the White House Lawn, rose garden side. I suspect after the troublemakers are gone we can have a session without unnecessary drama. Illegal aliens OUT, SRS now fills those jobs with the able who are now cut off from assistance. Work or starve. Non violent Federal criminals are freed and made to pay restitution either by garnishment or in the event of unemployment, on a road crew for U.S. highways.(another way to save money on the overpaid 'tards just standing around watching a few overpaid 'tards work). I would urge the several states to do the same.
    The government will quit protecting people from themselves. It's not social Darwinism, it's a human right to be left alone to do what you want as long as you harm no one else. Just be careful out there and use some sense, some won't and will take themselves out of the gene pool.
    Churches, whose mission statement direct from Christs mouth, is to care for the poor, will take over that part of SRS duties. The Christians already pay a 10% "God tax" just for stuff like that, no need to dip twice from their pockets or even once from an atheist or other non church goer. I notice churches currently doing this don't require profession of faith to receive aid. Not a problem.
    Yes, I plan quite an interesting eventful administration with the prize of a bright future at the end of it. I will do it inside of 4 years and don't care to be re-elected, unless of course you just HAVE to have me.
    Now get out there and vote for ol' fly.
    In short; we are going to mind our own business from now on, be a good neighbor to the rest of the world, eliminate corruption and make a bright future instead of what we have.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 20, 2012 @02:13PM (#41716075)

    I'd do something different, but here is what I propose as an alternative, and the key is getting the US on par with the rest of the world. (Posting AC since I am at work):

    1: I'd make being the US military as part of the country as being in the PLA is to the Chinese or the IDF for Israel. Two years mandatory draft civilian/military. This does two things. It takes people and gives them a chance to relocate, better that than being stuck in their 'hood where their only fate is prison or six feet under. Now with this additional manpower, some actual projects can get done. An added benefit is, if people are a lot more interactive with the military or the police, the stupid, paranoid conspiracy stuff will go away. Yes, there may be black helicopters, but if Cousin Jim is flying one, it is a lot less scary for the most part.

    Of course, part of being a US citizen would be like a Swiss or Israeli citizen -- keep weapons maintained at all times. This sounds crazy, but when people know that firearms are just tools and no more, not instruments of divine warfare portrayed in the media, the need for the whole gun control pissing contest would be completely moot. It wouldn't hurt to have shooting teams as well, from the little leagues all the way to "Top Shot" capable shooters. Might as well turn it into a sport (and have rivals shoot at targets for championships as opposed to each other) since it isn't going away anytime soon. Call it zombie preparedness, hell, I don't care. Better to have more shooting ranges than hospitals. Make a national sport.

    2: I'd cut the bullshit, and move the US to a single payer healthcare system. We can easily do this. Medicare and the VA may not be perfect, but they do a good job.

    3: Similar with the auto system. When a person buys fuel or registers a vehicle, they get a large amount of no-fault coverage. Of course, fines will be income based. That way someone going 46 in an unmarked 45 construction zone won't owe a $500 fine and can't pay the rent, while someone else who has a wreck daily but can pay the points on the license isn't going to have carte blanche.

    4: I would allow the Geo Group and CCA to have their contracts, except I'd pay to transition them from prisons to building schools and other non-detention facilities. They get their dollars, but they don't have to force people to be locked up for their stock to go up. Instead, their lobbyists can push for a senior health center or a rec center as opposed to longer prison terms to fill up the newly built Supermax. The 90% minimum bed rule would be tossed out the door.

    5: I'd change over to a VAT system from the income tax system. That way tax credits are immediate.

    6: I'd change the US driving laws to something closer to Germany's. Erratic driving, slamming on brakes in hopes of a rear-ender, running out of gas on a crowded highway, will be fined. People will understand the "zipper rule", or won't drive. Fining will be just like Europe, where the cop swipes the card, or scans the barcode on the iPhone on the spot for small violations. Larger fines will be income based.

    In the commercial sector, if it isn't obviously driver error, if a fine happens due to a rig that isn't maintained, that is attached to the owner, not the driver. That way, some minimum wage slave doesn't take the fall because the owner decided to keep using retreads.

    7: In addition, there would be a large funding push for self-driving cars, as well as a car rental system. This way, regardless if someone owns a vehicle or not, there would be one available, even if someone lived over in a rural area. In urban areas, for every square foot of space built in a high-rise, there would have to be some set aside for parking (both cars and bicycles), both for the customers, as well as public parking. This way, people still can access a downtown area and have a safe place to stash their rides regardless of how built up it gets.

    8: I'd be in talks with GE and Toshiba for smaller nuclear reactors

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