TSA Defends Pat Down of 4-Year-Old Girl 1174
cosm writes "With public outcry against the TSA continuing to spread, the TSA is defending a recent episode in which a four-year-old was patted down while kicking and screaming at Wichita Airport in Kansas. From the AP article: 'The grandmother of a 4-year-old girl who became hysterical during a security screening at a Kansas airport said Wednesday that the child was forced to undergo a pat-down after hugging her, with security agents yelling and calling the crying girl an uncooperative suspect.'"
Re:They called her an :uncooperative subject" (Score:5, Informative)
I just wish there were a candidate for president running right now that would actually do something about it.
Oh wait.
Re:... because terrorrists don't have children. (Score:5, Informative)
You should RTFA which you clearly didn't.
It's not a case of never screening children. The child had passed the metal detector once, but after that she had contact with her grandmother who hadn't been screened yet, so she had to be screened again. For some reason just sending her through the metal detector again wasn't enough, which makes no sense as it was clearly good enough the first time.
Re:They called her an :uncooperative subject" (Score:5, Informative)
They're batting a 1000... (Score:5, Informative)
Yesterday it was a seven year old kid with cerebral palsy.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/26/father-tsa-got-aggressive-with-cerebral-palsy-stricken-7-year-old-from-long-island/ [cbslocal.com]
Re:Of course. (Score:4, Informative)
Well I have traveled Domestically from australia and internationally to places such as the UK recently and not once have i seen a security employee pat someone down. At one airport their was a spread leg station where you had to stand on a platform spread eagle while they wanded you but thats it. Oh and for a while there they were really anal about you taking liquids on the plane... Every person I know who has travelled to the US has nightmare stories about hour long queues at security and missing transfers due to having their entire luggage emptied for them.
Re:They called her an :uncooperative subject" (Score:5, Informative)
It's called poor training. It simply isn't easy to access children, every medical student learns this. For example, to examine a young child's ears, nose and throat (especially the throat) you have to make use of the mother / caregiver and either a battalion of nurses to hold the blanket wrapped child down or clever psychology. Only occasionally you'll lucky enough to find a co-operative 4 yo with the right temperament who will open her mouth for you and allow you to depress her tongue with a depressor. These cops simply do not have correct training. One does not consider a child a suspect, nor does one forcibly grope a child or expect the child to co-operate or expect the grandmother to be able to magically calm a child down after threats of airport closure.
Re:"Just let strangers touch you, honey" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:They called her an :uncooperative subject" (Score:5, Informative)
There are several, unfortunately none of them are among those that the media have deemed worthy of the office. So you'll never hear about them.
FTFY
Ron Paul 2012!!!
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps. My sister completely flipped out years ago, when the TSA basically released her 2-year-old into the crowded airport (she was at the "terrible twos" stage) while they held my sister and brother-in-law back because the metal detector had beeped. They literally took away the child from her parents, and then paid no attention when she bolted into the crowd.
My sister was hauled off for "special screening", cursing them at the top of her lungs in english and french, in a pluperfect rage, because she tried to defy the TSA and catch my niece. My brother-in-law kept his head, kowtowed obsequiously to the tinpot tyrants, and was allowed through once they'd figured out what forgotten bit of metal was causing the beeping. By the time he found his daughter, half an hour later, they'd finished ritually humiliating my sister (she's an American citizen, so she got the short course) and they managed to make their plane with a minute or two to spare.
During all of this, literally hundreds of people stood by watching and did nothing. So I guess we did see the "true colors of this nation" as you said. It's the color of terrorized weaklings.
Re:They called her an :uncooperative subject" (Score:5, Informative)
Vote Ron Paul!
Ron Paul wants to demolish the TSA.
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
Don't know about you, but I can't forget the numerous stories of terrorist strapping explosives to women and sending them out to be blown up.
There have been women suicide bombers, but you're implying that these women had no agency in the bombing. Please cite an incident that shows otherwise.
But the obvious solution in this case is to have the child go through the scanners again. Why the pat down? Either the scanners are good enough to detect anything that could have been passed from an unscreened passenger to a screened passenger, or they're not. Unless they are implicitly acknowledging that latter...
Re:Fellow passengers are your best defense (Score:4, Informative)
... even if they have hostages and even if they have knives.
I totally agree, from the safety of my computer terminal many thousands of miles away from the US.
Now, hands up who volunteers to be the first one to get to the hijacker, more than likely to be mortally wounded, so that the rest may live.
Recent attempts at bringing down aircraft in the western world:
* Shoe Bomber
* Underpants Bomber
* Heathrow plot with the liquids
Recent attempts at bringing down aircraft in the western world which weren't caught by the new at-airport policies
* Shoe Bomber
* Underpants Bomber
* Heathrow plot with the liquids
Recent attempts at bringing down aircraft in the western world which were stopped by passengers and crew on board
* Shoe Bomber
* Underpants Bomber
Recent attempts at bringing down aircraft in the western world which were stopped by intelligence services
* Heathrow plot with the liquids
Recent items confiscated from me at the airport
* Bottle of water
* Gaffer tape (Both Delhi and Manchester, UK)
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
The British and Israelis have to be looking at us as if we are epic cowards. Both have endured terrorist bombings like we do thunderstorms. Yet, they didn't turn into whining sniveling dogs, cowering to authority, handing over civil liberties for a hint of safety.
For anyone to blame this on Islam and want to blow up mosques, it would have to be some kind of backward moron that would never get enough traction to warrant any support. If they are that mentally lazy, I doubt they would have the motivation to take it any further than just mouthing some hot air.
Now what does concern me is that if the American people feel that their system of democracy is a fallacy and lose faith in our electoral system. They will not participate in it and hence give the "bad guys" a free hand to take things even further down the toilet. This will eventually breed "domestic terrorism" and even more civil liberties will be revoked.
Don't wax romantic about fighting a "revolution" either, "they" are far ahead of you on this and it will only end very badly for the little guys. Our one and only hope is to fight this straight up through the system. It's not easy, but it can be done. It has to be done. The alternative is too horrible to consider.
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
Not saying that TSA screeners are pedos
Believe me, if you'd proctored the TSA testing as I have, and seen the people that sit for these tests, you wouldn't be so quick to say that.
Best and brightest, they are most definitely not.
Re:Of course. (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, it doesn't need to be cash. They'll happily auction off your confiscated personal property as well. [eyeflare.com]
It's the same fucking bullshit with the DEA. Proceeds from property confiscations make up a huge chunk of their budget. The real question is, when are enough people going to start getting pissed off about this shit to do something about it? I'm sick and tired of the TSA apologists but it seems like there is a significant number of people in this country that really believe that they're being protected by these corrupt agencies...
Re:Exactly! I was saying that too! (Score:5, Informative)
It would go a long way toward ensuring a safer, happier humanity instead of this "Well I carry a gun everywhere because it's better me than him." Are you fucking retarded? Try understanding why someone might flip out and start shooting up a post office, for instance.
Actually, you'd find it surprising how few crimes are committed by people who are carrying firearms legally. The criminals don't bother to jump through the hoops of registering, training, getting a license, etc. You'd find it even more surprising how many crimes are prevented by armed citizens.
Not to mention the supreme court has explicitly ruled that it is not the responsibility of the police to protect you.
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
I submit to the record, exhibit A:
TSA screeners at LAX arrested on narcotics trafficking charges [cnn.com]
CNN front page right now...it'd almost be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad and infuriating.
Re:Of course. (Score:4, Informative)
If you are so scared of radiation, DON'T FLY!
On a 3 hour flight, you will receive the equivalent of 60 TSA scans from atmospheric radiation due to altitude.
On a 18 hour international flight, the equivalent of 360 scans.
Stay home or take the bus (or a boat).
Those of us who will still fly will appreciate the extra room on the planes and the lower fares.
If all the cancer paranoia were true, we'd all have cancer by age 10!
Re:Exactly! I was saying that too! (Score:4, Informative)
It would go a long way toward ensuring a safer, happier humanity instead of this "Well I carry a gun everywhere because it's better me than him." Are you fucking retarded? Try understanding why someone might flip out and start shooting up a post office, for instance.
Actually, you'd find it surprising how few crimes are committed by people who are carrying firearms legally. The criminals don't bother to jump through the hoops of registering, training, getting a license, etc. You'd find it even more surprising how many crimes are prevented by armed citizens.
Not to mention the supreme court has explicitly ruled that it is not the responsibility of the police to protect you.
True. I looked up the statistics for Texas concealed carry permit holders:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm [state.tx.us]
If you have a concealed carry permit in Texas you are about 90% LESS likely to commit a violent crime.
Re:Of course. (Score:5, Informative)
There are two problems leading to situations like this, firstly the TSA screeners have little more then a high-school diploma and a weeks training, because of this, management, in true government from, treats them like idiots.
To be frank, some of the staff at US airports appear to have an IQ barely above imbecility. I've been in the US four times, and nowhere else have I seen such unfriendly, unhelpful, and downright hostile personnel than at the airports. A man whose only job appeared to be holding a sign pointing to a gate refused to show us the way to the toilets. Another man went through our bags before we boarded and found the remains of a coconut which we'd intended to eat on the plane; he turned to me (I was 12 at the time), said "you must be a real idiot" and threw it in the garbage. If people like that are employed by the TSA, I'm hardly shocked that situations like the one with the little girl make the news every few weeks. If those dimwits don't know how to properly interact with passengers, put them in a position where they don't have to, or don't hire them.
Last year, we did a trip around Iceland. Before our return flight, when we waited at the security check, we found that we still had some 2 liter bottles of lemonade in our bags. So we started chugging away (don't like to waste food), and a security guy came up to us. He told us to relax and take the bottles on the plane. "This is Reykjavik, not New York. Have a nice flight."
Re:They called her an :uncooperative subject" (Score:5, Informative)
And the NDAA, and the Patriot Act, and that anti-protest law, and the ability to drone-kill Americans without trial, and many other shitty things that have been going on. His policies may not be perfect, but he's far ahead of anyone else where it counts.